Soon to be Collectable Front Wheel Drive Vehicles

[MarkV]

Well I think as long as a car is stock (or close to it) I think it needs to be accepted as long as it is over 25 years old. I think the most amazing thing is when you see a 1987 model and it has low mileage and has been well taken care of. I always figure the collectable cars will be taken care of and restored but to see one that is not so collectable is a great site!

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

The original question: "What FWD vehicles do you think will be worth picking up?"

The question never was related to younger individuals being attracted to the hobby or whether FWD vehicles in general should be considered "collectible." Just as with makes there are people that revere FWD vehicles and those who for one reason or another detest them. Will or are any of them be worth picking up picking up now? Who the heck knows?

"Worth" implies the gaining of value or at least not loosing money from money invested, factors that are impossible to predict given the "youthful" age of FWD vehicles and many of those who are accustomed to them. On the other hand, few cars of any nature appreciate sufficiently over time to consider them a viable investment with most usually ending up with more invested in a 25+ year old car than they'll ever realize out of it.

It is safe to say at this point the forum participants have not identified any significant number of brands or models of FWD vehicles in response to the original question. Somewhat telling!

[CarlLaFong]

There are ways of stating one's own preferences without trashing other people's. There are a few examples in this thread of people choosing not to take those ways.

Since you chose to quote me, I have to respond. I never trashed anyone's car or their preferences. I simply stated that I don't like most cars built after a certain era. I also don't like liver, rap music, opera or 350 lb women in Spandex pants. For those who do like these things, good for you. I do not think that my likes or dislikes are better than yours, just better for me. In the end, that's what matters, do what makes you happy. Late model (to me) FWD cars make me sad;)

[Guest ken bogren]

Just came home from the 2012 Auto Show (new cars). The AACA has a display on the main floor this year and it was so crowded you had a hard time getting to see the old cars.

Lots of kids of all ages with their parents and/or grandparents (I guess it's spring school break here).

Didn't look to me that there was any shortage of young people lusting over FWD or RWD cars. Plenty of kids ohhing and ahhhing at the AACA display, which included a very cool 1909 Luverne touring car.

Edited March 14, 2012 by ken bogren (see edit history)

[J3Studio]

I never trashed anyone's car or their preferences.

And I didn't say you did ...

... in fact, I chose your response because you weren't nasty.

Edited March 14, 2012 by j3studio (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

And I didn't say you did ...

... in fact, I chose your response because you weren't nasty.

No problem. Sometimes the meanings get lost in the translation. You can't see sarcasm, good natured rib poking and other silly behaviors over the net. I guess that what the emoticons are for:D:confused::eek:

[J3Studio]

The original question: "What FWD vehicles do you think will be worth picking up?"

The question never was related to younger individuals being attracted to the hobby or whether FWD vehicles in general should be considered "collectible." Just as with makes there are people that revere FWD vehicles and those who for one reason or another detest them. Will or are any of them be worth picking up picking up now? Who the heck knows?

"Worth" implies the gaining of value or at least not loosing money from money invested, factors that are impossible to predict given the "youthful" age of FWD vehicles and many of those who are accustomed to them. On the other hand, few cars of any nature appreciate sufficiently over time to consider them a viable investment with most usually ending up with more invested in a 25+ year old car than they'll ever realize out of it.

It is safe to say at this point the forum participants have not identified any significant number of brands or models of FWD vehicles in response to the original question. Somewhat telling!

I'll bite, covering the 1980s only:

1988-1989 Buick Reatta

1980-1985 Buick Riviera (I prefer the T-Types, but the convertibles certainly have their fans)

1980-1985 Cadillac Eldorado (Biarritz, convertible, Biarritz convertible )

1987-1989 Cadillac Allante (though the final 1993 version with the Northstar engine seems most wanted)

1987-1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Z

1984-1986 Dodge Omni GLH

1986-1989 Ford Taurus (1989 Taurus SHO stands out)

1984-1986 Honda Civic CR-X

1980-1985 Oldsmobile Toronado

1983-1989 Pontiac 6000STE

1983-1984 Volkswagon Rabbit GTI

Edited March 14, 2012 by j3studio (see edit history)

[Guest ken bogren]

"Worth" implies the gaining of value or at least not loosing money from money invested,

Not in this hobby. There are so many reasons people own old/collector cars beyond cash value that increasing or decreasing cash value is probably not even in the top 5 or 10, unless the "hobbiest" is actually just in the "hobby" for the money.

Edited March 14, 2012 by ken bogren (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

As far as "investments", you've just got to pick your targets on that. AND see how much of the work you can do yourself. This can be where the lower level trim models can come out good . . . not much optional stuff to chase, especially chrome trim, rather than the top trim level models with lots of "wear items" to chase.

Sometimes, I think we get a little too uptight about prices of things. Of course, "economic viability" is important, but I suspect we've all seen people spend lots of money on a vehicle that we all know will never be worth the investment, but then it's usually on a vehicle that nobody's seen in many years. And, sometimes, you pickup a price guide and are amazed at the price that vehicle is now listed at. Another . . . "You never know . . ." situation.

When the VW Rabbits and GTIs were new, they were neat cars. Same with some of the similar Audi coupes. Subarus always had a following in ski and snow country, before they got trendy and more popular, but they also built some performance coupes that for which the work "unique" did not do them justice.

Only thing with used cars is that you've got to watch out for the "trim shop option kits" (add-on fabric-covered fiberglass roof caps) with fancy nameplates on them. Whether the car is fwd, rwd, or awd. As always, know what you're buying.

To each their own. I know that rwd and fwd have their own benefits. But as long as at least ONE wheel (or pair thereof) whether rwd or fwd, will leave rubber on the ground, that's always a plus! But, as in the case of a '96 Grand Marquis I rented one time, the mighty 4.6L OHC V-8 would NOT even spin the wheels in loose dirt (after I found the traction control and turned it off!). It did good to get 25mpg on the highway at 65mph, too! But, later model years were much better (power-wise). A plain jane Buick Regal LS or LeSabre 3.8L V-6 would have left that Mercury in the dust!

The "flip front" Buick LeSabres and Park Avenues of the later 1980s were really neat and nice cars--period! Even get them with tachometer and gauges, too! Later, after the first model year, the Park Avenue Ultra came standard with the supercharged 3800 V-6. Incredibly nice cars with luxury in the Traditional American Motorcar orientation! These cars, when new, had very few problems and if you can find a nice one now, it'll be worth whatever you might need to pay for it. It'll always attract attention when you open the hood, other than the Buick logo silkscreened onto the hood insulator pad. The whole model series back then were incredibly nice cars--period. Nice size, decent power and great fuel economy, comfortable, quiet, and classy looks. And that fancy leather interior on the Park Avenues!!! (How's that for a specific recommendation, Jim?)

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Edited March 15, 2012 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

I tried to sell my Park Ave. Ultra in 95. Beautiful car, every option, low miles, no issues. Advertised it on various sites and papers. Not one single bite. I traded it in on a Toyota and got 1800 bucks for it

[LINC400]

I'll bite, covering the 1980s only:

1988-1989 Buick Reatta

1980-1985 Buick Riviera (I prefer the T-Types, but the convertibles certainly have their fans)

1980-1985 Cadillac Eldorado (Biarritz, convertible, Biarritz convertible )

1987-1989 Cadillac Allante (though the final 1993 version with the Northstar engine seems most wanted)

1987-1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby Z

1984-1986 Dodge Omni GLH

1986-1989 Ford Taurus (1989 Taurus SHO stands out)

1984-1986 Honda Civic CR-X

1980-1985 Oldsmobile Toronado

1983-1989 Pontiac 6000STE

1983-1984 Volkswagon Rabbit GTI

The majority of cars on this list are now 25+ year old antiques. Yet how many car shows do you see any of them at? Not just AACA shows, but any show. I see Reattas and Allantes at shows. But really not any of the others. Even 1979-85 Eldorado, Riviera, and Toronado which were extremely well received when new, don't show up very often. Even with the high production of Tauruses and Pontiac 6000's, I do not see any at shows. There are, however, a lot of post 1980 Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes. Even newer Chrysler 300's and Dodge Chargers and Challengers show up at shows more frequently than any of the cars on this list.

I have even been to many Cadillac shows where they show through the 1990's - current. The only ones that show up in any significant number post 1980 are the rwd Cadillac Broughams and the Allantes. Even the unique 1980-85 Seville doesn't show up much. The Allante is unique as a 2 seater, and many consider the Brougham the last "real" Cadillac. And even these are always nice original cars because you could buy 3 or 4 for much less than a full restoration on one. So I just don't see post 1985 Sevilles and fwd DeVilles becoming hugely popular anytime soon, even with Northstar engines.

Edited March 15, 2012 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

We think of many of these these cars as dull to drive and cookie-cutter similar to look at. But someday they're going to look quaint. Few people will want them as daily drivers, but they'll be fun to take to an ice-cream shop or a pizza parlor. And some folks will take them on tours of similar-performing cars.

Look at the Model T. The ones in the early 20's couldn't have been more plain-Jane or obsolete even when they were new, and everything else you could buy was faster, fancier and probably safer. In the mid-30s you could hardly give one away. But they have a HUGE following today, with two national clubs and activities every weekend all over North America, Australia, New Zealand and Europe. The last Model T was built 85 years ago, so while the average T enthusiast is not young, he's not reliving his youth. I'm 75. I grew up in an a fairly upscale part of the country where I hardly ever saw a Model T, and I always wanted to have a Packard dual-cowl phaeton or a Duesenberg. Guess what, guys. The Packard and the Duesy ain't gonna happen; not enough significant figures in my bank balance. But I love my 99-year-old Model T and drive it - carefully! - all over the place. And no, I don't remember it from my younger days, and I sure as blazes didn't buy it new!

Do I want an ordinary car from the 80s? Nope. Not the slightest interest. Neither as a driver nor as a collector. But someday, some people will want them. Most will, by then, have been junked. But a few will have been treated kindly and will still be in nice shape, and they will be sought out. Which ones? Well, the Reattas and Allantes will command more money, and many Citations will be stripped for parts, but there will be a market for all of them. I just don't expect to be around to see it.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[MarkV]

Gil- Well I wish I could drive a Model T daily out here in CA! But, I would be killed! Here we have to drive hundreds of miles a week on busy and crowded roads and freeways! But, to answer your response the 1980's cars and up are still in high use due to their fuel economy (at least most models). This helps to contribute to the lesser number of good quality ones out there, because most are driven into the ground, unlike many cars from the 1970's and before. Say from 1985 and up, the cars are reasonably good on gas and parts still readily available so, people drive them and abuse them and when they need something they dont buy it because 'it is not worth it'. I have never done this with any of my cars. This will seem funny to most, but, the 1988 Corsica that I have with 79k on it has undergone a restoration. It was purchased from the original owner, and my friend did a few things to it when he owned it, but, I have done the majority. Which included everything from a new rack and pinion to a new and correct factory steering wheel, factory correct radio (from the horrible cd player that my friend put in) and even the window crank and hubcaps had to be correct! and I had the windshield replaced and ac repaired. I recently put a new hood on and had it painted (the old one became bent because of the placement of the old prop rod). This may seem crazy to go to all of this work to fix a 25 year old economy car worth about $1500! But, I like it and it is clean and has low mileage and has been worth every cent (especially now with gas prices being the way they are!). Of course I love my Continentals and the D-19 and the 490 touring car. But, this car has a use and it is a nice driving car. I have even semi retired my 3 year newer lesabre due to the gas prices (I drive around the city 5 out of 7 days per week and it can only get about 20-23 mpg when I drive a typical week, but, out on the highway I get 26 mpg!) and with 25-30 combined MPG on my Corsica I cant go wrong. I will still use the Lesabre on road trips and to fill in if something happens to the Corsica, but, while the gas prices (4.50 in CA) are outrageous I will be driving the old Corsica!

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

The majority of cars on this list are now 25+ year old antiques. Yet how many car shows do you see any of them at? Not just AACA shows, but any show. I see Reattas and Allantes at shows. But really not any of the others. Even 1979-85 Eldorado, Riviera, and Toronado which were extremely well received when new, don't show up very often. Even with the high production of Tauruses and Pontiac 6000's, I do not see any at shows. There are, however, a lot of post 1980 Mustangs, Camaros, and Corvettes. Even newer Chrysler 300's and Dodge Chargers and Challengers show up at shows more frequently than any of the cars on this list.

I have even been to many Cadillac shows where they show through the 1990's - current. The only ones that show up in any significant number post 1980 are the rwd Cadillac Broughams and the Allantes. Even the unique 1980-85 Seville doesn't show up much. The Allante is unique as a 2 seater, and many consider the Brougham the last "real" Cadillac. And even these are always nice original cars because you could buy 3 or 4 for much less than a full restoration on one. So I just don't see post 1985 Sevilles and fwd DeVilles becoming hugely popular anytime soon, even with Northstar engines.

I don't know that one should judge the cars in question future present or desirability on the basis of what one may see at brand club specific or local general car shows. Brand club activities are a bit of what the AACA is about but not restrictive on age of vehicles; they are more about brand appreciation than anything else. Local charity shows are usually open to just about anything with wheels and the organizations holding them are usually just thankful to see a variety cars, old and newer, and enough cars showing up that they have a show.

In our local area charity fund raiser car shows are more supported by the street rodder clubs, and even low ridder clubs than any of the brand clubs and a few of us show up with restored vehicles from times past. In this case it's all about geography and there being no brand specific clubs within 75 to 100 miles.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[oldcarfudd]

Wes - Last month I was at the HCCA annual convention in LA. We had a great time and were bused to some fine collections, like Nethercutt and Mullin. But the traffic, at any hour of the day, on both freeways and city streets, was appalling. You're right - it would be suicidal to drive a Model T there. But I wouldn't want to drive anything else there, either. I'm glad I don't have to!

And, while I drive my model T a lot, it's not really a daily driver. I've been caught in the rain many times, but if I'm not on a car tour and the weather looks unpromising, I go modern. And, with gas lights and no turn signals, I'm careful to be home by dark. And I avoid cities, Interstates, and places with heavy traffic. I enjoy the car (and my other brass-era cars), but selectively. I'm dying to drive a brass-era car, but I don't want to die driving a brass-era car. The syntaxes of those two expressions are different!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[J3Studio]

I'm dying to drive a brass-era car, but I don't want to die driving a brass-era car.

[Guest]

Gil-This will seem funny to most, but, the 1988 Corsica that I have with 79k on it has undergone a restoration.

___________________________________________________________

Was wondering about a couple of things on the restoration; Was it hard to find engine and transaxle parts? When you painted the car did you remove the engine/transaxle as a assembly with the ft suspension to be able to get to the engine bay for painting? If I'm not mistaken Corsica shares parts with Beretta?

D.

[LINC400]

This will seem funny to most, but, the 1988 Corsica that I have with 79k on it has undergone a restoration. It was purchased from the original owner, and my friend did a few things to it when he owned it, but, I have done the majority. Which included everything from a new rack and pinion to a new and correct factory steering wheel, factory correct radio (from the horrible cd player that my friend put in) and even the window crank and hubcaps had to be correct! and I had the windshield replaced and ac repaired. I recently put a new hood on and had it painted (the old one became bent because of the placement of the old prop rod). This may seem crazy to go to all of this work to fix a 25 year old economy car worth about $1500! But, I like it and it is clean and has low mileage and has been worth every cent

Sounds like it has had a lot of repairs. But I would not call that undergoing a restoration. A restoration involves complete bodywork and repainting the entire car, all new upholstery, rechroming (if applicable), plus rebuilding or repairing mechanical components. As much as you like your Corsica, I don't think you would have bought it if it needed all of that when you could get 4 nice ones for what it would probably cost for all of that if not more. It is not even worth doing that to most 1970's and even some 1960's cars. So I really don't see too many people pulling a 1980's car out of a junkyard or barn and doing a full restoration on them anytime soon. That is not to say no one has ever done it. But it is a common occurrence with 1900-50's cars. I just don't see it happening to many post 1980 cars anytime soon.

[Guest Siegfried]

First and second generation Volkswagen Rabbits/Golf's, Jetta's, etc. Mighty fine cars, I own a few, and they last longer without rust-out then their competition. Mechanicals and such are superior also. The '85 jetta has 300,000 plus on the original drive train without anything other then a head gasket and 2 clutch replacements. The '84 Rabbit is almost broken in at 190,000 miles with 1 clutch replacement. Maybe its just me, but then again maybe it quality from Wolfsburg. HPOF here we come!!!

[Guest Siegfried]

Here's another response. The 1980 Grand National First Volkswagen Rabbit mentioned earlier in this forum discussion is one of the most accurately restored cars at an AACA National Meet as are the majority of restored Volkswagen manufactured vehicles that are shown at AACA meets.

So are the 80ty's front wheel drive cars worth saving/restoring, and showing at AACA events? Of course they are. They are automotive history.

;)I imagine the same question gets asked for each new decade that starts a 25 year cycle?:cool:

[poci1957]

I would not call that undergoing a restoration. A restoration involves complete bodywork and repainting the entire car, all new upholstery, rechroming (if applicable), plus rebuilding or repairing mechanical components. It is not even worth doing that to most 1970's and even some 1960's cars. I just don't see it happening to many post 1980 cars anytime soon.

Linc400 is correct in pointing out that there is a dividing line between something being of interest to a collector and if the collector is interested in financing a restoration. I would say virtually any clean low mileage "survivor" is worth something to someone just as a historical curiosity. But the number of cars that will have a whole industry spring up to provide parts like 1957 Chevys is going to be almost nil.

We will see occasional, usually partial, restorations of a few cars. But the idea of dragging, say, a 1988 Buick out of a junkyard and ordering a full reproduction interior and weatherstrip kit from a catalog is not likely to happen. Just as it does not for most 1970s cars. However, as Siegfried said, are they historic and worth saving? Sure, bring em on, Todd C

[X-Frame]

To name just a couple, Buick Reatta and Riviera. Probably also the Cadillac Eldorado.

The Mazda Miata comes to mind.

Almost any "special interest" model will probably have some sort of collector following.

As for electronic parts, I rather expect that there will be repro or "universal" parts of some sort to work around the issue.

I am going through this thread now but Ken... Miata is a Rear Wheel Drive car

[X-Frame]

I had thought about this question in the past since I own a 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera International with only 80k miles. Seeing that Oldsmobile is no longer and this is a relatively low milage car for the year (averages about 3k per year) and is only 2 years from being "antique", wonder if I should hold on to it?

Eric

[Guest my3buicks]

Sounds like it has had a lot of repairs. But I would not call that undergoing a restoration. A restoration involves complete bodywork and repainting the entire car, all new upholstery, rechroming (if applicable), plus rebuilding or repairing mechanical components. As much as you like your Corsica, I don't think you would have bought it if it needed all of that when you could get 4 nice ones for what it would probably cost for all of that if not more. It is not even worth doing that to most 1970's and even some 1960's cars. So I really don't see too many people pulling a 1980's car out of a junkyard or barn and doing a full restoration on them anytime soon. That is not to say no one has ever done it. But it is a common occurrence with 1900-50's cars. I just don't see it happening to many post 1980 cars anytime soon.

Sounds like a restoration to me :confused: - so my 67 that had a full blown restoration but still sports it's original interior was really not restored? Darn, all these years I have been telling people it was restored.

A restoration includes some but not necessarily all the things you mentioned.

[X-Frame]

Not front wheel drive but something to look into considering you never see these any longer are Pontiac Fiero.

I also like the bustle-back trunk Lincoln Continental and Cadillac Seville of the early 1980s as contenders.

Eric

[LINC400]

Sounds like a restoration to me :confused: - so my 67 that had a full blown restoration but still sports it's original interior was really not restored? Darn, all these years I have been telling people it was restored.

A restoration includes some but not necessarily all the things you mentioned.

Restoration is a term that is thrown around whenever any work is done on a car. Fixing some mechanical problems, even if expensive, and doing a little bodywork is not a restoration. It is simply repairs and repainting.

Go to a Concours event sometime, and see what a full restoration involves.

[LINC400]

I don't know that one should judge the cars in question future present or desirability on the basis of what one may see at brand club specific or local general car shows. Brand club activities are a bit of what the AACA is about but not restrictive on age of vehicles; they are more about brand appreciation than anything else. Local charity shows are usually open to just about anything with wheels and the organizations holding them are usually just thankful to see a variety cars, old and newer, and enough cars showing up that they have a show.

In our local area charity fund raiser car shows are more supported by the street rodder clubs, and even low ridder clubs than any of the brand clubs and a few of us show up with restored vehicles from times past. In this case it's all about geography and there being no brand specific clubs within 75 to 100 miles.

Chicago has a huge amount of car shows. From marque specific and club events to cruise nights, concours, charity shows, local burger joint shows, etc. If the cars are not showing up at any of these events, then I don't think they are being collected in any significant number.

Cars like 1957 Chevys, 1950's and even 1963 Corvettes, 1959 Cadillacs, 1955-57 Thunderbirds, and 1965 Mustangs were already being collected and shown in car shows in the mid-1970's when these cars were less than 20 years old.

Yet here we are in 2012, over 35 years later, and these are still some of the most desireable and collected cars. 1977 Chevy Impalas have not become anywhere near as collectible as 1957 Chevys ever were despite being almost double the age 1957's were when they first started to be collected.

In fact most 1970's cars still do not get much respect except for muscle cars. despite being about 40 years old. So no, I do not see average 1980's or 1990's cars becoming the new hot collectible anytime soon. I think it will take even longer for them to be appreciated except for the already mentioned muscle and unique vehicles.

You could buy a 1957 Chevy fuel injected convertible for a whole lot less in the 1970's than now. So people that want one now, but can't afford it, might buy a 1957 low end 4 door post, and get basically the same car.

If 1987 Mustang GT's or Camaros escalate in price for some reason in 20 years, that is not going to get people into 1987 4 door Celebritys and Cavaliers and Tempos and Tauruses. They are not in any way similar to a Mustang or Camaro. They will most likely look for some other more affordable muscle or unique car.

Edited March 15, 2012 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[Guest ken bogren]

If 1987 Mustang GT's or Camaros escalate in price for some reason in 20 years, that is not going to get people into 1987 4 door Celebritys and Cavaliers and Tempos and Tauruses. They are not in any way similar to a Mustang or Camaro. They will most likely look for some other more affordable muscle or unique car.

The Cavalier Z24 series of cars might attract some folks. Apparently ran for several years.

[NTX5467]

When I read through the list of things done to the Corsica, it struck me more as a "make it right" and "maintenance" situation more than anything else. Obviously, the vehicle's other cosmetics were in reasonably good shape? If the paint was in decent condition, I think I'd much rather buff, glaze, and "slick wax" it than do a full-blown paint job just to say that I did.

Berettas were the 2-dr couple and the Corsica was the 4-dr sedan of the same platform. Berettas were pretty neat for back then. I considered specing one out with a V-6 and F41 suspension to see what it'd come up to. A decent price, all things considered. But, back then, the 2.8L V-6 had decent power, but nothing to write home about (especially in current times!!). When I set the tire pressure (on one I rented for a weekend trip) to 33 frt/29 rr, handling improved very nicely.

I don't consider "making it nice", as was done for the Corsica, to be out of whack, BUT just what any of us might have done . . . then OR now . . . if we'd been in the same situation. The mechanical stuff? Just normal maintenance, all things considered. Changing steering rack assemblies now is somewhat similar to doing valve jobs in prior decades . . . an "age/mileage-related maintenance" issue.

Enjoy that Corsica!

NTX5467

[Guest my3buicks]

Chicago has a huge amount of car shows. From marque specific and club events to cruise nights, concours, charity shows, local burger joint shows, etc. If the cars are not showing up at any of these events, then I don't think they are being collected in any significant number.

Cars like 1957 Chevys, 1950's and even 1963 Corvettes, 1959 Cadillacs, 1955-57 Thunderbirds, and 1965 Mustangs were already being collected and shown in car shows in the mid-1970's when these cars were less than 20 years old.

Yet here we are in 2012, over 35 years later, and these are still some of the most desireable and collected cars. 1977 Chevy Impalas have not become anywhere near as collectible as 1957 Chevys ever were despite being almost double the age 1957's were when they first started to be collected.

In fact most 1970's cars still do not get much respect except for muscle cars. despite being about 40 years old. So no, I do not see average 1980's or 1990's cars becoming the new hot collectible anytime soon. I think it will take even longer for them to be appreciated except for the already mentioned muscle and unique vehicles.

You could buy a 1957 Chevy fuel injected convertible for a whole lot less in the 1970's than now. So people that want one now, but can't afford it, might buy a 1957 low end 4 door post, and get basically the same car.

If 1987 Mustang GT's or Camaros escalate in price for some reason in 20 years, that is not going to get people into 1987 4 door Celebritys and Cavaliers and Tempos and Tauruses. They are not in any way similar to a Mustang or Camaro. They will most likely look for some other more affordable muscle or unique car.

At Buick Nationals & Regional we see a significant number of front wheel drive cars on the show fields -Very heavy on the Reatta & Riviera's but certainly other models are also starting to be seen.

Edited March 16, 2012 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Chicago has a huge amount of car shows. From marque specific and club events to cruise nights, concours, charity shows, local burger joint shows, etc. If the cars are not showing up at any of these events, then I don't think they are being collected in any significant number.

Bet you put a lot of miles on that Mark making all the Friday and Saturday cruise nights along with all the weekend car shows that may be taking place considering the amount of real estate that metropolitan Chicago covers.

[Guest]

At Buick Nationals & Regional we see a significant number of front wheel drive cars on the show fields -Very heavy on the Reatta & Riviera's but certainly other models are also starting to be seen.

___________________________________________________________

I agree with you, and I have a question for you. Hot rods aside, how many 20's and 30's stock Buicks do you see at these meets?

These days at your average car show Hot rods aside again, how many stock cars from the 20's & 30's do you see? I can tell you not many. The local shows that are around my area have a cut off of 1979 these days with some people wanting to open that up to 25 or older. I think once it's accepted you will see these cars, but I worry more about not seeing stock cars of the 20's & 30's.

It seems to happen not only with cars , but with music too. Our oldies station does not play music of the 50's anymore, and the contemporary station which used to play songs from my parents generation (30's & 40"s) now plays 50's, 60's & 70's. The culture is just slipping away, and younger people will never be able to experience music from the great American song book.

D.

[LINC400]

Bet you put a lot of miles on that Mark making all the Friday and Saturday cruise nights along with all the weekend car shows that may be taking place considering the amount of real estate that metropolitan Chicago covers.

It gets a couple thousand miles put on it a year, which might not sound like much. But it is only used for car related events from April to early November. Never driven to work or to the store to run errands. I usually am at a car show one if not both weekend days plus 3-4 multi-day out of state trips, and the occassional cruise night, which happen every night of the week here, not just Fridays. It would get more miles put on it but I usually go with my friend and half the time we go in one of his cars.

[Guest]

At Buick Nationals & Regional we see a significant number of front wheel drive cars on the show fields -Very heavy on the Reatta & Riviera's but certainly other models are also starting to be seen.

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I agree with you, and I have a question for you. Hot rods aside, how many 20's and 30's stock Buicks do you see at these meets?

These days at your average car show Hot rods aside again, how many stock cars from the 20's & 30's do you see? I can tell you not many. The local shows that are around my area have a cut off of 1979 these days with some people wanting to open that up to 25 or older. I think once it's accepted you will see these cars, but I worry more about not seeing stock cars of the 20's & 30's.

It seems to happen not only with cars , but with music too. Our oldies station does not play music of the 50's anymore, and the contemporary station which used to play songs from my parents generation (30's & 40"s) now plays 50's, 60's & 70's. The culture is just slipping away, and younger people will never be able to experience music from the great American song book.

D.

[Guest dminer]

I did some nosing around searching 80s cars, and it seems like the stuff that's real collectable already is all pretty much rwd. DMC 12, Vette c4, 944's,Rx7,IROC,supras,Ford's Sierra rs Cosworth,etc...it seems like there was a huge shift in U.S. sales and a huge influx of foreign motorworks.

The older stuff that's pre-80s haven't all been found yet. "Barn finds" pop up everywhere everyday. I think until they're all scooped up people will be hesitant to move on...even then there might be 'one more out there'.

Those fwd 80s cars have a fight ahead of them and by the time people are ready to move on to seeing them as collectables, despite the thousands of them out there, they may become a very rare thing to have restored. I don't see Model T's everyday, but I sure see Rabbits and GTI's...wasn't it that way in the T's hayday though? In old photos of streets they're everywhere it seems.

Edited March 16, 2012 by dminer (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

___________________________________________________________

I agree with you, and I have a question for you. Hot rods aside, how many 20's and 30's stock Buicks do you see at these meets?

These days at your average car show Hot rods aside again, how many stock cars from the 20's & 30's do you see? I can tell you not many. The local shows that are around my area have a cut off of 1979 these days with some people wanting to open that up to 25 or older. I think once it's accepted you will see these cars, but I worry more about not seeing stock cars of the 20's & 30's.

It seems to happen not only with cars , but with music too. Our oldies station does not play music of the 50's anymore, and the contemporary station which used to play songs from my parents generation (30's & 40"s) now plays 50's, 60's & 70's. The culture is just slipping away, and younger people will never be able to experience music from the great American song book.

D.

The larger Buick shows still draw a very good number of 20's and especially 30's cars

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

I've been thinking about this thread for a few days now and I can't think of any fwd cars that stand out as possible collector items. Most all the fwd cars that come to mind are what I would call disposable cars.

There are folks out there collecting Taurus', Yugos, Pacers, etc. but not because there collectors items like our Buicks.

[MarkV]

When I read through the list of things done to the Corsica, it struck me more as a "make it right" and "maintenance" situation more than anything else. Obviously, the vehicle's other cosmetics were in reasonably good shape? If the paint was in decent condition, I think I'd much rather buff, glaze, and "slick wax" it than do a full-blown paint job just to say that I did.

Berettas were the 2-dr couple and the Corsica was the 4-dr sedan of the same platform. Berettas were pretty neat for back then. I considered specing one out with a V-6 and F41 suspension to see what it'd come up to. A decent price, all things considered. But, back then, the 2.8L V-6 had decent power, but nothing to write home about (especially in current times!!). When I set the tire pressure (on one I rented for a weekend trip) to 33 frt/29 rr, handling improved very nicely.

I don't consider "making it nice", as was done for the Corsica, to be out of whack, BUT just what any of us might have done . . . then OR now . . . if we'd been in the same situation. The mechanical stuff? Just normal maintenance, all things considered. Changing steering rack assemblies now is somewhat similar to doing valve jobs in prior decades . . . an "age/mileage-related maintenance" issue.

Enjoy that Corsica!

NTX5467

Well, you would be surprised, most people out here would just let the car go! Until it dies! We car guys would fix it, but most would feel it is not worth it. I wanted to bring it back to perfect order. The interior is near perfect, but the steering column had been replaced with a blue one, so, I repainted it and replaced the blue wheel with the original gray wheel. The car has been painted three times (once because of the factory recall in the 1990s, once because of a former friend backing into it and the final time due to a warranty on the paint, it was fish eyed!). It has the 2.0 V-4 Iron Duke, most of it is really plain, it does not have power locks or windows or cruise or any of the other fancy stuff! It has the basic interior but, it is near perfect and it has 79k on it! The reason why I replaced and had the hood painted was due to the old prop rod being mid way up the hood (they changed it the next model year) and over time the hood became warped and did not close right. So, I placed a new prop rod along the front of the hood and took out the old one. I was tired of seeing the hood arching up because of the old prop! Also, my friend when he replaced the other hood a few years ago with the one I took off and replaced, he did not get it painted the right color and that bugged me too!

[Guest my3buicks]

I've been thinking about this thread for a few days now and I can't think of any fwd cars that stand out as possible collector items. Most all the fwd cars that come to mind are what I would call disposable cars.

There are folks out there collecting Taurus', Yugos, Pacers, etc. but not because there collectors items like our Buicks.

Since you threw out the Buick name, I think those with Reatta's in particular might take exception to your comment.

[Guest dminer]

Some of these are pretty funny!

The Top 20 Most Unmistakably ?80s Car Commercials | Sub5zero.com

reminded me of the what-cha-ma-call-it and Dr.Pepper!ha!

Edited March 16, 2012 by dminer (see edit history)