CCCA Future

[Mark Huston]

I have been displeased to read the comments by the out going CCCA president regarding his wish that some specific cars of the 50s be added to the CCCA list. Just because the members are aging, and passing away, does not mean the cars cease to exist. Unless someone is buried in their car someone new will own these Classics.

Therefore, the question should not be what new cars to add to the list, but how to attract the new owners of these Classics that were previously owned by CCCA members.

I am a Studebaker President enthusiast. I belong to both the CCCA and the Antique Studebaker Club. I know by looking in the club roster of both clubs that only a small fraction of Studebaker President owners listed in the Antique Studebaker Club roster belong to the CCCA. I am sure the same is true for the owners of other recognized CCCA cars such as Packard, Lincoln, Cadillac, etc. Therefore, there must be many owners of Full Classics out there who need to be exposed to the benefits of membership in the CCCA.

The club needs to focus on attracting the owners of existing Classics, not adding cars of the 50s. One way to do this is for those of us who are the aging members is to ensure that the next generation that owns our Classic is exposed to the CCCA before they get their hands on the car. My daughter will someday have my Classic. I already have her involved in the NorCal Region activities. Hopefully, long after I am gone, she will continue to enjoy both the Studebaker, and CCCA activities.

[1937hd45]

I've known what a Brass Car and a Classic is since 1961 (age 10), I own a '12 T, and been on some HCCA Tours that were a lot of fun. I've got friends with Classics that tour in them, and some show, but I've never been to a CCCA event. Maybe these events should be advertized if in fact the public is welcome, it may get a few new members.

[alsancle]

Bob, CCCA events are not open to the public. However, I believe members can bring guests. One nice thing about a CCCA show is you don't stand much guard duty if any. I'm sure we could start quite the thread on dumb stuff that people do to cars at car shows.

[Guest Water Jacket]

Dr. Fields, above, is right about not using events to entice new members.

Doesn't matter what we know, it's what the many, many owners of "unincorporated" CCCA Classics are met with. Knowing that a Grand Classic would be in our area, i've called non-member owners of lovely Full Classics and told them about the event. Their immediate, standard response to a man is:

"Oh, I haven't cleaned up my car since the last time I had it out. It'll take me two days to get it ready for something like that."

They think it's another janitorial d'elegance. And the irony is that they all have high-point authentic cars by CCCA standards. They think it's akin to some tournament of credit lines and mega ego like Pebble Beach-- which is of NO interest to more Classic owners than you might imagine.

That, and those who looked into driving their Classic to a Grand Classic wanting to park it amongst the fellow survivors as exhibit only and enjoy themselves for a few hours perusing the cars while letting people enjoy theirs were told they had to pay forty dollars.

Not the way to bring new blood into the fold.

You can explain all day to me, but this is what non-member Classic owners are "greeted" with. Hit up for $40 (or more) just to drive over with their cars as exhibit only and share a few hours. Off-putting, indeed. You might want to fix that, for starters.

Meanwhile, was the above analogy too abstract?

Shakespeare, Beethoven, Bach, Louis Armstrong, Cezanne all departed this mortal coil ages ago, yet

new people continue to discover and enjoy them.

So what's with all the nifty fifties chrome baroque post-Classic era hohum consideration? Why is this even an issue? Why do we continue to yammer on and on about this?

On the CCCA's home/mission page, a genial paragraph or two can remind visitors they're welcome to join the CCCA whether or not they have a CCCA Classic, with a link directing them to one of the hundreds of other automobile clubs with a list of websites.

Case closed. We then go on enjoying CCCA Classics while welcoming, nay, inviting owners of CCCA CLASSICS to drive over to one of our events, spend a morning or afternoon. There'd be a link listing times and places of upcoming CCCA gatherings around the nation.

Once there, a cardtable laden with membership forms, current or back issues of the quarterly and monthly would entice them.

*

Edited May 4, 2012 by Water Jacket (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

"Parking" in Exhibition is only $15.

[Guest Water Jacket]

<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --><!-- google_ad_section_start -->That wasn't the case a few years ago, not on this coast. If that's true, it needs to be clearly stated and readily accessible without wading through a lot of clutter,

on this site's homepage.

Business owners, ad agency honchos, lawyers, judges, doctors, and other erudite professionals may own a Full Classic (one of them two), but their lives don't revolve around cars and they're not going to research such errata.

Again, preaching to the choir ain't going to help the CCCA grow and flourish. Nearly a third of a billion people in the US today, and membership hovers at about (please, no nitpicking), about the same as in the late 1970s, despite this being the information age

with nearly everyone online.

So, let's focus on my above ideas to make this information quickly, easily available to others outside the CCCA with Classics.

Again, not ONE of these worthies i called realized they were allowed to bring their Classics at the last moment, park with their surviving brethren, not out in the south 40, and relax.

Most professionals view this as a hobby, which means fun, something they do depending on how they feel that weekend, what else is going on in their lives. All i know is that many times over the years i've called Classic owners to tell them about a Grand Classic in their backyard, and my previous post quotes their inevitable response, verbatim.

Bringing their cars is viewed as too much hassle, plus the charge at the gate, which was then $40.

Speaking of harried professionals, i have to get back to work.

So tell them, not me. Clearly, simply, on this site's homepage, with the aforementioned E-Z links.

Salud.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Edited May 4, 2012 by Water Jacket (see edit history)

[K8096]

"Parking" in Exhibition is only $15.

But you also have to register for the meet if you bring a car, which for a Grand Classic is $35 - $40 per person. The last couple of Annual Meetings have had a registration fee of $75 per person. So it's the registration fee, PLUS the $15. It's not that we can't all afford it, but if you're only interested in the car show itself, and not the banquet (many members fall into this category), why bother bringing an unrestored driver for exhibition and pay all that money when you can just show up without a car the day of the show and just look at everything for free?

[Guest Water Jacket]

Absolutely, K8096. If one of our nonmember friends feels like firing up his Full Classic and driving over to a nearby Grand Classic that afternoon, just park with the other Classics, perhaps bring his wife or son, that's $80, minimum, to share his car with kindred spirits while viewing other survivors for a few hours.

Doubt many Classic owners are on relief, but everytime we turn around, someone's got their hand in our pocket. A concours phoned me recently, "inviting" me to bring my car. They mentioned the featured cars this year would be French coachbuilt and Cords, so i gave them the phone numbers of several friends with such barouches. We chatted briefly, sounded like a tony but not insufferable venue, 'til he mentioned the $75 entry fee. I suggested this was akin to having a ballgame and charging the players.

None of my friends opted to go.

The CCCA charges, like any club, an annual membership fee. Any member should be able to drive over to a Grand Classic or other gathering that happens to be in his backyard and park, exhibit only, without paying another cent.

Those with the time or interest in spending an entire weekend at the hotel, wining and dining, that's a separate issue. As are Caravans and all the rest of it.

But if you're a member, and we're now up to $65 a year just for the national club --nearly twice what we pay to get the New Yorker weekly--

that should include being able to park with fellow members for an afternoon without being hit up for more money.

So should any non-member who also wants to bring his car for the morning or afternoon, hobnob, gossip, gawk, and drive home. For the sake of the CCCA's survival, let alone a thriving future, let nonmember Classic owners see clearly, on a link on this site's homepage, that they are not only welcomed,

but urged to attend the next CCCA without any folderol.

It's 2012. Most Classic owners i know have been involved with these cars since the 1970s, '60s, '50s.

Most of us have already done shows, have trophies, are sick of all that. And nothing, at this late date, is more off-putting than this "driver/show car" jazz.

A friend owns an ex-Richie Clyne Imperial Palace Collection car. It's the usual 100-point overrestoration ready for Pebble Beach, if he cared.

He even built a separate, additional garage for this immaculate juggernaut.

But, because he once in a blue moon fires it up and drives it locally when he can find a hole in our megapolis' traffic, it might have some light road film on the undercarriage. So he feels like a second-class citizen at a Grand Classic.

Yeah, yeah. We know it doesn't matter. But tell him and all the others perusing this site's homepage.

He's also not going to pay $40, let alone $80 if he brings his wife, to drive to a regional Grand Classic and park with the other hallowed jalopies for a few hours.

Another nonmember friend but member of another club for august automobiles, drove his high-point carriage to a Grand Classic and was told he'd have to park outside the event because he wasn't a member, hadn't registered, blah, blah, blah. This despite his car being vastly rarer than and easily cosmetically as nice as any of the Grand Classic cars.

Like most Classic owners i know in 2012, he didn't want a trophy, or to be judged, couldn't care less. Just wanted to have an outing with his car with kindred spirits.

Another fellow brought a stunning, uber rare car, an older but genuine restoration, the sort you'd have seen at Ed Jurist's Vintage Car Store in Nyack decades ago. I guess whoever was at the gate at the Grand Classic that afternoon decided, what the hell, let him in. No sooner does he park when some CCCA member minces over and bestows that backhanded compliment,

"Oh, what a nice driver..."

then, nose skyward, walks back to his (sorry, sportsfans) shiny '41 Cadillac convertible, which shares every piece of sheetmetal with a '41 Pontiac ragtop.

I don't know of too many unrestored Classics in 2012, but every last one of 'em should be u r g e d on the CCCA website's homepage to drive over to the next Grand Classic or other CCCA event.

That is, if you want the CCCA to thrive, not just limp along, with no other recourse than debating the low horizon types who look to revisionist history to boost the price of whatever they're driving.

The rest of us Classic owners, members and not, are tired,

v e r y,

of "driveable showcar, former showcar, fresh restoration, older restoration, nice driver."

In Europe, in the 1930s, the heyday of real concourses d'elegance, all the cars were "drivers."

Often, the owner and his paramour drove through rain the night before, picked up some mud here and there, parked on the field, went to sleep. No fussing with towels, emolients, Q-tips the next morning.

The cars were judged solely on their inherent grace of line, class.

My 'umble suggestion, as someone who was born long ago when all the world was young, is that you leave the $40/75/80 hustle to the suburban concourses d'nonelegance Pebble Beach/Amelia Island monkey see/monkey do wannabes,

and instead encourage the many nonmember Classic owners to bring their cars to the next Grand Classic, etc., which you clearly, easily should list NOW on the homepage of this website.

And try,

try

to comprehend that there are many, mayhaps most Classic owners, who have NO interest in vulgarity like Pebble Beach, care which Bugatti Ralph Lauren is chromeplating the originally painted wheels of, or whatever monstrosity Jay Leno is raving about this week.

Some of us are Letterman fans.

Please pardon this epistle's length. But some of us would like to see this club thrive.

Have a nice weekend, Cinco de Mayo.

*

Edited May 5, 2012 by Water Jacket (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Doubt many Classic owners are on relief, but every time we turn around, someone's got their hand in our pocket. A concours phoned me recently, "inviting" me to bring my car. We chatted briefly, sounded like a tony but not insufferable venue, 'til he mentioned the $75 entry fee. I suggested this was akin to having a ballgame and charging the players.

The CCCA charges, like any club, an annual membership fee. Any member should be able to drive over to a Grand Classic or other gathering that happens to be in his backyard and park, exhibit only, without paying another cent.

But if you're a member, and we're now up to $65 a year just for the national club --nearly twice what we pay to get the New Yorker weekly-- that should include being able to park with fellow members for an afternoon without being hit up for more money.

It's 2012. Most Classic owners i know have been involved with these cars since the 1970s, '60s, '50s.

Most of us have already done shows, have trophies, are sick of all that. And nothing, at this late date, is more off-putting than this "driver/show car" jazz.

Like most Classic owners i know in 2012, he didn't want a trophy, or to be judged, couldn't care less. Just wanted to have an outing with his car with kindred spirits.

*

Wow! I'm almost speechless at your ignorance ... at the very least, your attitude. It sounds like everything you want in a car show you can get at the local Wal-Mart parking lot cruise-in. Grand Classics are for those who want a little exclusivity, so that they're not parking next to the 2002 Mitsubishi 2000.

You're implying that putting on a show doesn't cost any money. If you're not willing to help defray the cost of putting on a show, then continue to boycott, and park your 12-cylinder Packard next to Nissan at the shopping center. There's nothing wrong with that. I do it once in a while myself. It's fun.

I'm reading between the lines here, so excuse me if I've assumed too much: It sounds like you are no longer involved with the local club and do not help with setting up the Grand Classics. If you did, you'd have a better understanding of the costs involved.

As far as the concours that you complained about, usually those are events held to raise money for charity. In other words, it's not about YOU. It doesn't matter that you were "invited," most people that bring their cars to those shows are thrilled to be "invited." The event is for charity and they have a good time knowing that the money is going to a good cause. Most people who attend concours contribute a lot more than the "entry fee" for that very reason.

[Guest Water Jacket]

Thank you, "Dr." Fields, and be assured, that salutation is an honorarium, as we seem to be on the same page, trying, trying, uphill and against the wind, against the hidebound "but we've always done it this way" quo, to ensure a future for the CCCA, this thread's topic.

In my last post, i was quoting many, many longtime Classic owners' laments heard over the years.

And tho' off topic, yes Monsignor Vertigo, we well realize many suburban concourses d' elegance are for a charity, tho' many of us who've been involved with these things for aeons, many decades, often wonder how much of the gate really goes to the cause, and not the event's gladhanding promoters, "administrative costs," et al.

Been involved with these elegant auld barouches on both coasts since many readers here gathered were riding tricycles. But what Dr. Fields, i and others above are attempting, is how to enliven and save the CCCA, make it more fun, less stuffy, while remaining true to this Club's roots, not morph into into the kinda neat old curr klub.

I've no idea from where the rancor stems.

Some of us just like the cars and should like this to return to the enjoyable, relaxed hobby it once was, long ago, when we were young and under the apple bough.

Steady.

[JV Puleo]

I've been following this thread since it began though don't feel I have all that much to add... but Mr. "Water Jacket" has struck a responsive cord in my memory. I joined the CCCA in 1970... I was 19 and had recently bought this:

a 1927 (I thought it was a '26) 314 Cadillac 7 passenger limo. Aside from having been painted in the late 50s it was completely untouched and would, today, be considered a remarkable "HPOF" car. In 1970... as a teenage collector, all I heard was "when are you going to restore it?" or... my favorite, "its not an open car" - which everyone knows are the ONLY cars worth having. To be entirely fair, that was a general reaction, not one specific to the CCCA crowd, but it pretty much soured me on car clubs and especially the cult of "cosmetic competition."

I sold the Cadillac after 2 seasons to buy this:

1929 aluminum head PI, S193FR. If the Caddy was an object of scorn, the Rolls was doubly so because it really did need to be restored... This is one of the reasons I wonder about all the hand wringing about bringing in "younger" folks. I've no impression that car collectors (with some very notable exceptions) were all that interested in encouraging new people. Thankfully I had the encouragement of several collectors of what would today be considered "high end" cars but none of them were even faintly interested in competing for trophies and, I don't think any of them even bothered to join the CCCA. As "water jacket" has so cogently put forward, there are lots of people who genuinely like these cars but the (to me) insane, narcissistic emphasis on paint, polish and conspicuous consumption is very off putting.

Edited May 7, 2012 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Mark Huston]

JV Puleo,

Your comments about attending your first car meet at 19 with that beautiful original Cadillac reminded me of my first car meet experience. I was 17 in 1975 when I bought my very first car a 1929 Studebaker sedan that was in excellent original condition. It was a basic “Plain Jane” model with wood wheels and rear mounted spare. I could not have been prouder of that car if it had been a brand new Corvette.

The very first collector car meet that was held in my area I drove my pride and joy to the meet excited to dive head first in the world of car collectors. After I parked, and my brother and I got out, the “old guys” came over to see what had just arrived. They walked around the car and everyone differed to this one guy (we later found out he was the unofficial leader of the club) after they circled the car the leader says “Non desirable item” and then they all turned and walked away and not one more word was said to us.

I have never attended that club again. Also, to this day, I always encourage anyone, especially the younger guys, when they buy a car, or need help getting started in the hobby. I would never treat anyone they way I was treated at the age of 17 with my first collector car.

[alsancle]

Btw, if you showed up at either of those shows with a Dueseneberg you would have gotten the same cold shoulder. This has nothing to do with snobbery and everything to do with cliques and being part of them or not. Historically that is what most clubs have been.

My perspective, which I've stated probably more than once so I will again is that the CCCA is worth the 65 bucks for the periodicals alone. I have never gotten a bad vibe at any event that I have been to. Not saying that it hasn't happened or that some regions might be cliquey but I just haven't seen it. I think at this point most regions are thrilled when they see new blood.

[A. Ballard 35R]

Just think, what would happen if Vertigo was in charge of new membership in any car club?

Yes, charity events have there place, but Water Jacket makes some very valid points that Vertigo should try and understand.