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1952 Roadmaster Estate Wagon project.


MikesWoodieWorld

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Well, after a real adventure, we picked up the 1946 CenturyTrailer.

We also discovered the roof flat areas are also masonite, when Gary's foot went through at one point!!

As usual, I forgot my camera, and unfortunately haven't figured out just how to download pictures that my buddies send in emails...thanks ever so much yahoo for pulling the rug out from under me there.

(If anyone has figured it out, please enlighten me, and I will gladly post pics.)

Anyway it was a long day, I left for Gary's place (2 hrs away) at 7AM, we loaded all his extensive gear, and visited with Margo, his wife, filled a thermos with coffee, and headed out.

We arrived at our destination about 1:30PM, and getting it ready seemed to take forever...we didn't leave until around 4:30PM

Really sweet young couple selling it, very warm and helpful, a joy to know.

(Antique trailer folks seem to be that way, regardless of age...kind of like old car...Woodie folks of the past...)

It took longer to drive home, since I could zorch the speed limit + 5 MPH going down, which varied from 65-70 MPH.

But in our state, towing is always max 55MPH.

Halfway home we had a blowout on (thankfully) the right tire, but we were well supplied with tools, extra wheels with good tires, and were on our way in just a few minutes...although, kind of scary on the right shoulder of one of Los Angeles busiest freeways...thankfully it was a wider than normal shoulder, so we were well off.

I didn't get home until a half hour after midnight, so have been kicking back today...recovery!!

These old trailers are gems, I consider them like inside-out-Woodies...the wood is inside, and this one had pristine wood inside.

The outside masonite was pretty well preserved, considering it hung out since 1946...a year older than me...and look at my outsides...no, don't!! LOL

But, it hung out long enough to preserve the beautiful insides, and Gary will replace the masonite outsides to its former glory.

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Guest Rob McDonald
...Woodie folks of the past...

MIKE, that's sounds a bit bittersweet. Have woodie folks changed so much? I wouldn't know, I've only ever known half a dozen real live woodie owners, so my impression of this arm of the hobby is dependent on what I read in magazines and on these forums. I find that these correspondents are as interesting as ever. In person, are some tending to be not so nice?

Fine adventure down San Diego way. So, tell us, is the trailer capped in aluminum or steel? Surely not exposed masonite!?

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Rob, not meaning to sound bittersweet, but when the values went skyrocketing, it seemed to attract money people to Woodies.

When I started into Woodies, you just found one and restored it knowing you wouldn't be able to sell it at a profit, but we did it because we wanted one, and did most of the work ourselves.

I have a feeling the folks here are the good old guys!!

Back to the trailer, it was wood framed, then a plywood skin was attached (not sure of the thickness), then masonite was applied.

Yes, the masonite was the finished outside.

This trailer is what we call a "Breadloaf" style, with all rounded corners.

The masonite is curved around the front & rear corners.

The roof has steel corners, all around the front, back & sides that is rounded, and the flat roof center is again masonite.

After, it was painted all over to protect the whole assembly.

I'll try to get some pics & post them, but meanwhile I added some pics of a similar style trailer.

This one is an all aluminum 1947 Westcraft, just to show the style.

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Guest Rob McDonald

Love the ducktail styling. Inside it looks like a California Craftsman bungalow. Is that really an A/C unit on the roof?! Perhaps not original equipment.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, enough about trailers, and back to Buicks...this is actually a Buick Woodie thread, after all!!

And a 52 Roadmaster one at that!!

Well, the 52 is on hold (but screaming to keep going) until I can get more dough.

(Donations welcomed...LOL)

But we are progressing on the 49 Super, having spent the last two days doing the final fine sanding on the wood.

Today we glued the rear quarter sections together, which is done as assembled on the wagon, permanently.

I am adding some pics, they still have clamps/straps in place, holding them tight together.

Tomorrow, we will finish that chore, and perhaps it will be more photogenic by then...as now it is covered with sawdust, clamps & straps.

So much so, it is hard to distinguish wood from metal from hardware!!

The tailgate is off, and in pieces, as we will glue it together first thing in the AM, along with new mahogany veneer applied to the panels.

We will add mahogany veneer to all areas that require them so that they will all match, before starting the varnishing step.

But, varnishing is close, which will make it extremely photogenic, as the wood grain comes to life during that process.

And the contrast of the white ash framing with the mahogany paneling show their glorious different colors & grains, complimenting each other.

I will post pictures of that soon, as we progress.

I hope all enjoyed a great Christmas season, and wish all the best of the New Year, Mike

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Very neat looking trailer, Mike! That A/C unit somehow doesn't go with the styling, though I'm sure it would of been practical in the desert.

The interior looks quite good, also.

It sounds like it would be quite a heavy unit to tow, with all that wood and masonite.

Keith

The air conditioner has been removed, already!!!

Actually, Keith, it wasn't bad to tow.

Although, I used my 2005 Dodge Ram Diesel 3/4 ton 6 speed manual truck to tow it, equipped with an exhaust brake, which levels all hills around here, which are many, and some are quite steep.

And the exhaust brake holds it back extremely well on downgrades.

No brake pedal needed!!

So the brakes are fresh at the bottom if needed, or midway down.

The old Century was no comparison to a Roadmaster (4-5000LBS) and my car trailer (2500-3000 LBS).

Hey, Buicks are the greatest for old cars/wagons especially, but Dodge Rams are great for hauling them around!!

Only if they are diesels, with 5 or 6 speed manual trannys and an exhaust brake.

Just set cruise control, and hills, up or down, evaporate!!

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Hey Mike, a compound question if I may. I am wondering about the average amount of time it takes to complete just the wood once the car is stripped? And I am wondering how that compares to what the factory experience when new might have been?

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Hey Mike, a compound question if I may. I am wondering about the average amount of time it takes to complete just the wood once the car is stripped? And I am wondering how that compares to what the factory experience when new might have been?

Well, lets try to answer both questions...

The average time it takes to complete just the wood once the car is stripped varies as to whether some old wood is to be used, or all new, and the general condition of the sheet metal.

Ideally the metal should be all prepped for paint but still in primer when the wood is rough fitted.

Then the wood is removed and the finished painting is done, then the final fitting of the wood.

If some old wood is to be used, it may have flaws that can be repaired, sometimes not to perfection, but the time it takes to do this can be extensive, and often with less than satisfactory results.

So I recommend to owners just to go for all new wood...it is better unless they truly don't mind old wood with flaws, at the same cost, or even more sometimes.

Believe me, time can vary a lot during this process, which makes it really hard to make an accurate assessment of the time...and therefore the cost!!

The factory had blueprints for the wood, and was made in quantity back in the day, so when the wagons were built, there was a good supply of wood pieces, and the installer on the assembly line could pick and choose just the right piece.

When we restore a Woodie nowadays, we make each piece, not in quantity unless we have several projects with the same wood, but it is now a custom job as opposed to an assembly line in the factory.

No comparison indeed.

I hope this answers your question, but if not ask away!!

Happy New Year to all, Mike

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We made some progress on the 1949 Super today.

New mahogany veneer was added to the sultry old rear panels to liven them up, and allow a good match to the other mahogany wood used on the wagon.

This involved disassembly of the tailgate and various other parts, but was well worth it.

Now the rear quarters, and tailgate are almost ready for varnish...just a little more hand sanding...whew!!

We plan to work tomorrow, Sunday (our schedule is messed up with holidays midweek!!) and should get it to varnish stage by the end of our long day.

Happy New Year to all, Mike

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Thanks for the explanation Mike. Way more variables than I envisioned. I had presumed there would be the efficiency during manufacture from having the availability of multiple pieces to work with. I had not thought about extra time to make old wood presentable. And I imagine during manufacture there was not as much attention to detail as in a top notch restoration. How many times have we seen cars over restored?

I just love the work that you do in your shop! And I am very glad you have added your threads on this forum for us to see.

Happy New Year to you and your friends and family.

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John, there are major differences as to how we assemble a 1949-1953 Woodie today as opposed to the factory.

For starters, the steel roof was not in place during factory assembly, from my observations.

They were assembled from the bottom up, then the steel roof was attached, after all the rear structural wood was in place to support it.

When we get them, the roof is connected, and has to be raised up at the rear to even remove some of the derelict wood, then properly supported until it can rest on the replacement parts.

It is really a very different a process.

It actually took me a while to figure this out, while wondering how they did this when new...then it dawned on me.

The roof section has a wooden beam along each side, from front to back.

The roof is attached at the front windshield area as is normal for cars/wagons of this era, somewhere on the side windshield posts.

The B-post, the one between the front & rear doors is also attached, but the top of it is screwed to the header post, wood, that goes from front to back, just inside the roof, both sides.

So the wood headers had to be installed in the roof before it was attached.

The only other support for the steel roof was accomplished by the rear quarters, which were already in place by the time the roof was installed is my guess.

This means when the assembly line did their thing, the roof was not in their way, it was added later.

Now on restoration, that roof can be a nuisance!!

Perhaps this is not clear, since I have worked many of these gems, and you may have to see it to fully get it, as I have, but if any of you are in my area (out in the sticks of CA desert!!) any of you are welcome, anytime, to visit.

I'll show you, first hand!!

All I ask is a small donation...Naw, just joking!! LOL

You'll get the nickle, no quarter tour for free, as long as you can handle my two boxer dogs, not dangerous, just overly friendly!! Cheers, Mike

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John, Happy new year to you and your family and friends, also.

Sorry I didn't say this in the last answer, I had meant to.

Cheers, Mike

PS: And to all of you other Buick nuts out there (hang out here, & I'll make you a Buick Woodie nut...it is commonly known to be highly contagious, so be cautioned)!!

(No know remedy, and not expecting one in the near, or far future, other than getting one, and being overwhelmed with them!!)

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We worked our a$$e$ off today to make progress on the 49 Super.

We completed the mahogany veneering process, and it is not extremely visible in these pictures, since both woods, the ash framing and the mahogany inserts come to life during the varnishing stage...but we are close.

The holiday season, falling midweek is messing up our progress...

We want to continue, but have obligations that cannot go by the wayside...

So, hang in there, we will be back ASAP with more progress.

I hope all of you enjoy a great New Year with family, friends, hopefully not alone, but if so call me at 661 766 9141, I will be here to answer, sincerely...but warning you, I will want to talk Woodies!!

Hey it's OK, they are relaxing...unless you are attempting to restore one!! LOL

Cheers, Mike

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Mike;

I'll second John's comment, about how you've shared your progress and tips. I enjoy all the threads on the forum, but I think this one is my favorite, as I really love the woodies, though I've never owned one, but your thread allows me to dream a bit more.

I'll make a bad pun here, but the Super is looking Super!

A Happy New Year to all!

Keith

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Beautiful work. The wood grain really adds to the overall beauty of the woodie wagons. Nice work!

Thanks for mentioning the wood grain, I work hard to make the grain stand out, but sometimes I am disappointed...

Wood is what it is, elusive, and sometimes it comes to life, but sometimes its less than expected, although any wood is nice in my book.

At least the GM Woodies used primarily white ash, which can have spectacular grain showing, unlike the mediocre maple used on Fords!

Oh dear, I will hear it to no end from Ford lovers!!!

OK, have at me, but only in the New Year!!

Cheers, Mike

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Mike, A bit off Buick woodies but what of them two Indians you picked up some time back ? Are they resting/rusting awaiting their turn for your magic touch? Mark

Mark, before I start a Woodie project, there are a few things that have to be done:

The first is obtaining one, or in this case two, both 1948 Pontiacs.---Done!

Second is finding parts that will be needed for the restoration.---In process.

Third is researching as much as possible.---In process.

And the fourth is having the room to completely take it apart!!

I am presently working on #4, and cannot wait to get knee deep (head first, of course) into them!!

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Sorry to be not posting pics...we're at a 4 coat stage of varnishing the 49 wood, and it is coming out way beyond my expectations...but really tiring me!!

I am, after all, an old guy!! LOL

After all the work, and the consequential drooling over it, I just hop upstairs & plop!!

Totally worn out!!

But as I can I will post some pics, although it is somewhat disassembled for the varnishing stage, so bear with me.

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Well, I finally got a break and am now able to show the varnished work.

We have 4 coats of varnish, each one sanded between, but this set of pics show it with this last coat as dried, not yet sanded.

We will sand this one and apply 2-5 more, until we get just the right combination of color and smoothness.

Some of this wood was built by the previous owner, who died, so the wagon sat for many years in probate, allowing the bare wood to age, ie, darken, a natural happening.

So even with extensive sanding, we could not get the older wood to lighten up to the color of the new wood, so we needed to stain all to make a match.

That was successful, and it is gorgeous...just wait until we add the removed parts when done, and you will get to see it as it was meant to be seen...all together!!

Happy New Year to all, Mike

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Guest Rob McDonald

Okay, when I die, I'm going to Woodie Heaven, which is Mike's shop. I'm all thumbs when it comes to butchering wood, so I'll be in charge of the camera, sending station wagon images back to the land of the living.

That right rear quarter pillar belongs in the Museum of Modern Art. Thanks, Mike, for explaining how you used stain to match the old and new wood. The colour is probably much nicer than if you'd used new wood throughout, although that too would of darken over time. Curious - do you ever have to use wood filler? If so, do you tint it to match new wood or would you try to predict where the colour will be in a year or two?

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Guest spacepig
Beautiful work. The wood grain really adds to the overall beauty of the woodie wagons. Nice work!

I agree..<object width="1" height="1" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="undefined" value="http://lovesmileys.com/f2/3/swatch_white.swf" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://lovesmileys.com/f2/3/swatch_white.swf" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><embed width="1" height="1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://lovesmileys.com/f2/3/swatch_white.swf" undefined="http://lovesmileys.com/f2/3/swatch_white.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowscriptaccess="always" /></object>:)

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Okay, when I die, I'm going to Woodie Heaven, which is Mike's shop. I'm all thumbs when it comes to butchering wood, so I'll be in charge of the camera, sending station wagon images back to the land of the living.

That right rear quarter pillar belongs in the Museum of Modern Art. Thanks, Mike, for explaining how you used stain to match the old and new wood. The colour is probably much nicer than if you'd used new wood throughout, although that too would of darken over time. Curious - do you ever have to use wood filler? If so, do you tint it to match new wood or would you try to predict where the colour will be in a year or two?

Actually, Rob, the varnish arrests the darkening process, and locks it in to the color it is.

In this case, about half of the wood was built, then it sat inside for about 5 years, which allowed it to naturally darken. Sanding did lighten it somewhat, but the brand new wood was still much lighter.

It is, however all new wood, so no filling was required.

With old, original wood, that has flaws & cracks from time, it will need some filling.

I use clear 5 minute epoxy as I varnish to fill in cracks. The epoxy blends in with the varnish without changing the color, but still fills any voids.

Thanks for all the compliments guys, Mike

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Looking at the end product and what is involved to get it there confirms for me that this is a art form in it's own right. One simply does not just grab any piece of wood. The wood is studied to assure the shape in the artist mind will be rendered from said piece of wood. The grain pattern is correct. There are no knots or blemishes that will take away from over all beauty of piece. Is the density correct so stains will look uniform from piece to piece? Then, will each piece puzzle together with a look the artist is looking for? Honestly Mike, I envy you like all artists. For me, my brain sees it on paper yet my hand does not follow what my brain is telling it. I can not simply pick up a piece of wood and see a D pillar in the grain and shape. I salute your work and obvious love of wood as your art form. For me, I'm still attempting to stay in the lines with my crayons.

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Well, I think you guys have me on a pedestal I truly don't deserve!!

It is really fun to find raw wood, and contemplate how it will look when shaped, but it is truly the luck of the draw!!

Sometimes it works out, sometimes it is kind of blah!!

What can I say...it is the nature of the wood.

But we always need patterns, so the blah wood serves somewhat of a purpose!!

I do extremely enjoy when it works out, and am ready to post pics of it, but the reality of it is in my pattern collection of not so elegant grains is somewhat increasing!!

Although, some will work with adjoining pieces, so it is all good.

An adjoining piece can elevate a so-so piece if it enhances it, and wood does work well with other wood!!

Unlike us!! LOL

Cheers, Mike

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Guest Rob McDonald

MIKE, so you'll cut and shape a whole piece and then set it aside if the grain isn't pleasing? Wow, that is artistic dedication. I guess you'd find out soon enough when you've got a dud, well before the final finishing stage. Elm is such a highly figured wood that you're probably rarely disappointed. Have you worked with any other species, for framing members?

For the panels, do you use the same paper-thin mahogany veneer that we see at the lumber yards? Making repairs to birds-eye maple furniture with that stuff, I found that about four layers were needed to match the original thickness. With even the best varnish finish, I can't imagine it standing up to any weather exposure. Is thicker veneer available to you?

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Actually Rob, any grain can be pleasing, but it needs to flow into the adjoining wood.

You must realize that the grain is made from rings of the tree growing.

Some years are harsh, some great, so the rings vary in width from good & bad years, but the word here is "years"!

It took many years for the tree to grow, so the grain is a "history" of just what the tree went through.

Just imagine you are a tree...

You don't get to move around, your roots ensure that...we people have roots, but big difference.

So you are stuck where your seed fell and germinated, perhaps for 100 years, through thick & thin, until one day some person with a chain saw notices you!!

Go ahead, try to run!!

Have you seen pictures of old derelict cars with trees growing out of them?

Just imagine how long it took that tree to finally be tall enough to pass through the hood, or wherever it was stuck...

And we only see the old car!! With a lousy tree stuck in it!! LOL

I respect trees, it is the nature of my joy...adding wood to cars, wagons and making them glorious.

Like fine furniture, the rolling kind!!

So, the parts I set aside now, will be used on some future wagon that will appreciate it and have adjoining parts that compliment it...drawing it out, so to speak.

As for the veneer...it is immensely hard to work with, especially attempting to glue it to steel.

Many of the wood panels we veneered for this 49 will need redoing, due to a bad choice of glue.

They blistered horribly, but it doesn't show in the pics, thankfully.

That will set us back a bit, since we have to redo them.

Being out in the middle of nowhere, I am not familiar with your veneer "varieties seen in lumber yards."

I find mine on eBay, and let my fingers do the walking...delivered to my door, no less!

I am sure it is the same, judging by your description, extremely thin.

I find good old wood glue works well adding it to wood, but have had my problems adding it to steel.

But I have learned to sand the backside of the veneer, and the front of where it is being glued to get a better adhesion.

I think if it is glued well to other wood using Elmer's or Titebond wood glue, the varnish seems to seal it well with only one layer, not affecting the glue.

We used a 3M spray contact cement on these, which may well work on wood to steel, but sucks for wood to wood.

Varnishing the panels seemed to make them blister more so, as if the varnish undermined the 3M glue.

We will redo them with Elmer's or Titebond wood glue!!

They will be clamped overnight between a pair of 3/4" plywood panels, with plenty of clamps.

Although, I have not left samples out for years to actually see how it holds up...but after restoring these Woodies, I believe they are cared for much more today than when they were just another car, back in their day.

Cheers, MIke

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Guest Rob McDonald

MIKE, sorry, I meant to say ash, not elm. Come to think of it, though, elm would make a spectacular woodie. Regarding your tribulations with glueing wood to metal, that's something that furniture restorers would rarely experience. Therefore, you're out on your own to experiment and deal with the failures - which are really just learning opportunities. Must you now strip and discard the blistered panels or can they be salvaged?

Ash and elm lumber

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Rob, you are right, elm would look good on a Woodie, but I don't know much (read that: anything!!) about the structural features of elm.

It may not be flexible enough to take the shaking of a Woodie traveling down a gravel road, complete with potholes, etc.

It may not be strong enough to handle a full wood load bearing body.

Or, it may be pricey...but your sample looked good.

Makes me wonder why all the wood body builders pretty much used the same few wood species.

I used to dream about building a black Woodie, and build the wood part using ebony wood...

Pricey, but a fun dream!!

Back to the veneering:

No, the old bubbling veneer is history!!

We attacked it today, and decided it would be quicker & easier to just make new panels, as opposed to cleaning off the problem veneer from the old ones.

So we cut out new plywood using the old panels as patterns, and glued new veneer to them with Elmer's glue, this time.

They are, as I write, still clamped (overnight) between two sheets of 3/4" plywood, to ensure they stay flat.

Meanwhile, all the other ash got another sanding and a new coat of varnish, now drying.

We will make more headway in the next few days, but I won't add any more pictures until we get to where we are done.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Mike like the others I am in awe of your abilities. I am also working on a Buick woodie, a 1950 Super Model 59. So it is with great interest that I have been following your posts. After making some progress my project has stalled out (it's funny how life gets in the way and years roll by!) However your posts have inspired me to get back into the barn and get back to it. I would certainly appreciate the chance to contact you as I have some questions regarding wood fit-up that you could clearly answer.post-56176-143142378572_thumb.jpg

Hope I'm not being a pest!

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Mike like the others I am in awe of your abilities. I am also working on a Buick woodie, a 1950 Super Model 59. So it is with great interest that I have been following your posts. After making some progress my project has stalled out (it's funny how life gets in the way and years roll by!) However your posts have inspired me to get back into the barn and get back to it. I would certainly appreciate the chance to contact you as I have some questions regarding wood fit-up that you could clearly answer.[ATTACH=CONFIG]233472[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233473[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]233476[/ATTACH]

Hope I'm not being a pest!

No, none of you are never a pest!! I thoroughly enjoy it all.

I think your Woodie will look really nice in that gorgeous blue color!!

It looks like you are using a combination of old & new wood, hard to make them match in the varnishing stage!!

It also looks like the rear quarters are fitted very nicely.

Email me at: mikesoldecars@yahoo.com

Or phone me at: 661 766 9141 anytime.

In fact, I thank you for jarring this old memory to add some of the latest pics of the 49 Super, which is about done...That is, with our part, namely the wood.

There is plenty of other areas that need assembly after we are finished.

This wood came out a wee bit darker that new wood usually does, since some of it aged (read that: darkened naturally) as it sat in probate with bare wood for about 5 years.

The new pieces we made were considerably lighter, but even though we sanded the older (new) wood and it did lighten up a bit, it didn't lighten enough to match the new.

So we stained it all lightly, and it matches much better.

We also mounted the rear fenders, with fender welting between the wood & fenders, the only place these style Woodies have any fender welting.

The 49 fenders are awesome!!!

So glad to get them back on!! Mike

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You guys make us guys jealous! Beautiful work.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Pal.

We just took on another project, a 1952 red Super with all new wood, so I'll be posting pics of that soon.

We are presently starting to carve the wood, and my partner, Alex has a video capability, so we will try to get some videos of the carving process and add some links for you to view them.

The wagon is being painted as I write, and we don't expect it here until later this month, or early March.

By then we should have most of the wood already made for it.

Sometime in March, there is a Woodie show in Visalia, which Alex & I plan to attend.

That is not too far away from us, and hardly any traffic gridlock...thanks!!

I will fill you in on the actual dates, later.

It usually has a write-up in the Woodie Times, and a good one at that.

Wayne Yada gets it going, due to his fabulous energy, and I look forward to seeing him again soon.

We want to present a trophy for our consideration of the best wood...but, SHHUUSH!!

We haven't approached Wayne as of yet (which reminds me, I need to do that...)!!

So you are getting some inside info!! LOL

It was Alex's idea, and I love it!

We will try to keep you all updated (If I remember!! LOL).

Feel free to remind this old guy...

Cheers. Mike

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