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1952 Roadmaster Estate Wagon project.


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#1 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 04:26 PM

This is my latest venture, a 1952 Roadmaster Estate Wagon. Only 359 of these babies were produced in the Roadmaster (79) Series, so there are probably not many left today.

I have got a head start on the frame, having cleaned it up and painted it, including all the running gear.
The main body is the biggest challenge, so far.
The floors were pretty rusted, so all the jagged edges were cut away. I have a 4 door sedan with good floors, so they will be used to fill in the gaps. The wagon A-pillars have a gusset above and below the floor, and usually the top ones are gone, so I had some made.
(I have a few pairs, if anyone out there needs some.)
First, I will use my Harbor Freight sandblaster to clean off the roof, then I will take it to get professionally sandblasted and primered. Then on to the task of removing the floor from the sedan.
I parted out a 52 Roadmaster 2 door hardtop a few years ago, and it had a great front clip & hood (light blue), so I will use these on the wagon.
I recently was very fortunate to pick up some really nice original wood, which I will supplement with some new that I will make.

I have a long way to go, but will try to keep this thread updated, Mike

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#2 Rob McDonald

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:35 AM

MIKEWW, thanks for sharing this ambitious start on a complicated project. I notice how you dismissed the frame restoration as just part of the startup. Many of us never get even that far.

I've been crazy about woodie wagons forever, although I'll probably never own one. The National Woodie Club - National Woodie Club - is a terrific place for us armchair restorers to get our fill of this unique sort of car. I let my membership lapse years ago but it's satisfying to know the club is still going strong, should I ever feel the need to re-up.

Wood Is Good!
Rob McDonald
1957 Buick Roadmaster model 73A, owned since February 1973

#3 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:07 AM

Hey Rob, I have been through this before...
(and will again, as long as I possibly can!!)
...With a 1951 Buick Super Woodie (pics added), so I fully know what I am in for!!
But, hey man...get out of your armchair, they are not really as hard as you may think, and with a little effort, you too could do one, and the feeling when you see your efforts...cannot be conveyed with words!!
Not even remotely!! Not even pictures!!!
I would be extremely happy and grateful to pass on anything I have learned, and talk you through the tougher parts, by phone or emails with pics...no problem!!
The last 3 pics posted shows how the '51 looked upon arrival, well mostly!!
It took 3 trips with my truck & trailer, you are seeing only one trip's load!!
Now it is nearing completion, and sometimes that drags out, held up by a simple item!!
But, it will show up, and on we go!!
Meanwhile, there are still bargains to be had out there for derelict Woodies...ie: poor souls that have been left to the elements, which are particularly tough on Woodies, in any climate!!
As time goes on, they only deteriorate worse, so save one, or two!!
After all, Detroit, or Japan, China, whoever will never build anything even remotely like it again, so it is a lost treasure!!
Unless we save them.
Thanks for the kind words, Mike

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#4 shadetree77

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:27 AM

Wow Mike, that 51 looks good. Can't believe that is the same car shown in the last few pics. Gives me hope for my car when I start the real restoration process in a few years. Gonna drive her around rusty for awhile first though. Hope you had a more productive day than I did. I pulled an old injury in my back crawling around under mine yesterday. I was draining the trans. fluid contaminated oil out of the differential and twisted around the wrong way. As a result, I took today off....not by choice though. I'll swallow a handful of tylenol and be back out there putting my new steering wheel on tomorrow! Keep us updated on those wagons.

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#5 Buicknutty

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:03 PM

Thanks for posting the pics, Mike. Impressive looking work on the '51.
I am just finishing a '41 Roadmaster Coupe, and would LOVE to do a woodie! Time, space and that other thing..... money, will hold me back for a few years, got kids starting college.
Keith

#6 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:47 PM

When I got the '51, it was TOTALLY disassembled...there was just the main body section sitting on the bare-bones frame. We had to roll it on several 6" dia logs to winch it onto my trailer, which the seller donated for unloading. In those pictures, it is sitting on some dollies and the front clip and hood are barely tacked on, mainly for storage space. As are the rear fenders.
The front suspension and rear end had been left outside for quite a while, and were pretty well rusted.
I was very lucky to find an excellent rolling 2 door sedan chassis and engine for sale cheap. The seller had removed the body from a good running car to put on a modern chassis.
I was planning to exchange the running gear over to the woodie frame, but when I set the frames side by side, I discovered they were the same!!
That really motivated me, and moved the project well on it's way.
(I later noticed the woodie frame was reinforced with strips welded to the bottom of the x-frame as is the convertible frame, so I still have to do that, not a hard job.)
I'll try to post more pictures soon, Mike

#7 jackofalltrades70

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:25 AM

Mike,
Excellent work. I really love the woodie projects and to see them brought back to life, really puts a warm feeling inside you! Congrats and keep up the good work! Matt

#8 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:04 AM

OK, you guys, Woodie pictures it is!!
The first one is a 1949 Super, came here with some wood already made and installed. I was just to finish it. Well, it doesn't always go that well!!
It turns out that the new wood was not made very accurately, so the rear fenders do not fit, and upon fitting new wood to the doors, they don't match the rear quarter wood!!
Oh, well we will work it out!!
When it came here, it was painted only on the main body section. The hood, doors and fenders were just stripped and primed. I cannot fit the door wood if the doors are not properly fitted. So off it went to get the doors and fenders painted, fitted and aligned...except the rear fenders wouldn't fit!! That is when we discovered the problem!!
On top of that, it had sat in storage for a few years, with bare wood, which darkens with age, and there were some watermarks, due to leaks, perhaps. So the new wood is whiter, and it will take some doing to make all match!!
More on this one later, and on to some others!!
Mike

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#9 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:14 AM

And another one...
This is another 51 Super, came here for a full set of new wood.
I made the wood, but couldn't properly fit it, since the car was not fitting well. doors were way off, etc.
So right now it has all the wood removed, and is out for paint, and alignment.
I am looking forward to fitting the wood when it returns.
Mike

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#10 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:58 AM

And another...
This one came here for all new wood, and it has 1-2 coats of varnish in these pics.
I don't enjoy varnishing (it is truly a hassle!!), but do truly love to see the woodgrain start to blossom!!
On this one, I carefully selected pieces that had an awesome grain, and one piece flows to the next, as much as possible.
Not an easy task, since it is truly up to the piece of wood being shaped!!
But, Mother nature smiled on me in this case, because I was thrilled!!
When I restored my 51, I used 75% old wood, which is darker, naturally, so the new wood had to be darkened to match.
( I do not like to bleach old wood, it never comes out even, so I deal with it in its natural state.)
But with all new wood, that is not necessary, hence the lightness, and accompanying grain structure showing.
On my 51, with darker wood, the grain is there, but is not too photogenic.
Cheers, Mike

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#11 Buicknutty

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:01 PM

Mike;
Thanks for the great pictures! Very inspiring!
Keith

#12 buick5563

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 01:24 PM

Very well done Mike.
Mike Middleton

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#13 60FlatTop

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:34 PM

Mike,
Let's say a person with an unsound mind like mine decided to get that woody I used to own out of the woods. I kind of read into the description that the '52 in your shop might be a customer car. Are you in the business of selling the wood to rebuild these cars.

I am thinking if I had the two rear roof supports I could "make the car somewhat whole" and evaluate the best path to take with it. A little dreaming here, but I am intrigued.
Bernie

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#14 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:26 PM

Bernie,
I went back to your thread and looked over the pictures of the 50 wagon.
The second picture, which I have added here, shows a definite angle projected by the rear fender. I would suspect that the floor is rotted beyond repair, wholly based on this picture.
I have an extremely rusty 53, and the rear fenders are this way. It would be a difficult task to rework the floor and inner rear fender areas, since with the wood gone, there is not much to guide you to get it right.
I would also suspect the door bottoms are pretty bad also, but perhaps you are good at repairing rust.
Here in CA, wagons that sit out for 30 years get pretty rusty, but still have enough integrity to restore. I wouldn't think that would be the case in NY.
But, perhaps another visit, with a chain saw is in order, to really assess it. You should go before it has to endure another winter!!
I would be happy to help you in any way I can.

As far as wood kits, no.
Half the work is fabricating the pieces, the other half is fitting it. These were hand built wagons when new, but after 60 years, things can really change, so each one is a little different.
Mike

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#15 Rob McDonald

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:29 AM

MIKE, I'm intrigued that there's no visible means of support for the roof pan, in the "before" photos of your '51. Is there no steel structure at all, behind the windshield pillars? It looks like the roof was just resting on the tops of the door frames, after the tailgate and quarter window frames were removed. No wonder woodies were famous for creaks and rattles. Was a similar structure used in the last Buick woodies of 1953?

The only wood-trimmed wagon that I ever came close to buying, many years ago, was a Packard Station Sedan. The only structural wood in that poser is the 2-part tailgate. All the other timber is just wallpaper.

Packard had the Budd Company built these bodies, alongside the Chrysler Town & Country. I read recently how Budd created the in-fill panels of these cars. The mahogany veneer was glued to a shaped steel panel and pressed with a matching mould. The assembly was then bombarded with microwaves to cure the glue. Makes for challenging repairs today - "Honey, I'm just taking the microwave oven out the garage for a while."

Chrysler eventually swapped this complexity for Dynoc transfers, then skipped woodgrain panels altogether on their '51 T&C hardtops. I don't actually know if Packard persisted with bonded veneers throughout the Station Sedan's production cycle, 1948-50. I've seen far too few of these plus-size beauties in person, to really know how they were put together. Same goes for all types of woodies - not a lot of them made their way this far north.

I will be eagerly watching your progress, as you bring this rolling furniture back to life.
Rob McDonald
1957 Buick Roadmaster model 73A, owned since February 1973

#16 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 05:19 PM

ROB, The roof is supported by the windshield pillars and the "B" pillars (between the front and rear doors).

In my original post in this thread, I showed a few pictures of the main body section of the 52 with the doors removed, but the pictures were not very good. It was crammed between two other wagons.
Since then, I have moved all of them around, a major task, but allows me to clean the floor as I move them. (Plus, I had to make room for another one!!)
Due to that, it is now in a better position to photograph, so I added a couple of shots showing the roof support.

You can see that 2/3 or so of the roof is not supported by steel. The "C" and "D" pillars are structural wood.
My experience is that the rear corner posts ("D" pillars) usually rot badly, but the "C" pillars don't as much, and they make a big difference on roof support as these wagons sit outside rotting.
If you look at the picture that I posted of Bernie's old 50 Super (he posted more on another thread), you see there is no rear wooden corner posts, but the "C" pillars are there. They are starting to go, though, sadly!

Prior to 1949, Buick Woodies were all wood bodied, including the roof. In 1949 they used the steel roof and doors, and this was continued until 1953, the last year of real Woodies.
The 50-53 used the same body, with some minor changes, the 49 is a one year only body, but it is structurally like the 50-53.
Most of the changes in the 50-53 were on the grilles and rear fenders, so the main body wasn't affected. Mike

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#17 Rob McDonald

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:48 AM

MIKE, this does make more sense. Of course, the front doors need something sturdy to latch onto. All stripped down like this, one can see that the rear doors latch to the quarter panels, just like on a convertible or a 2-door hardtop. That long, long cantilevered roof makes GM's 4-door flattops, from '59 to '61, look like bank vaults by comparison.

So, tell us about this new '53 - Roadmaster or Super? Basket case or rolling project? In the early 1980's, I had the pleasure of being shown a one-owner 1953 Roadmaster Estate Wagon. Amazing survivor car, with at least five years of dust on it. The ancient lady owner was not yet willing to part with it. In her mind, she was still using the car. Eventually, Vern Bethel of Vancouver was the lucky man to be at the right place and time to buy this amazing piece of history.
Rob McDonald
1957 Buick Roadmaster model 73A, owned since February 1973

#18 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:59 PM

ROB, Well, the new one is a 53 Super.
It probably looks like a basket case to the average person, but is actually very decent. The white paint appears to be the original, mixed with surface rust, but no apparent rust through. There is no evidence of any other color on it anywhere.
It seems to have had a desert life.
There is the usual floor rot, but limited to the front only. The wood is very weathered, but at least the "C" pillars are still supporting the roof. We made a temporary support for the rear roof for the trip here, only a couple of hundred miles. I am amazed just how well the doors fit and open and close with ease.
I am a retired hobbyist, but occasionally take on an outside project (only wood work), mainly to fund my own projects. This one will get a new set of wood and be on its way. I am anxious to get started!!

I have a buddy, Frank, who is into 46-48 Chevy Woodies, and yesterday we cruised north on Hwy101 to Solidad, CA where we met his friend Joe, from Oakland. Joe had trailered Frank's latest project down, and we transferred it to my trailer and brought it back to Frank's place. (Sorry, no pictures.)
It was a great run, and I didn't have to drive through any heavy traffic!!
We got a lot of lookers, but I am sure most were wondering what it was...no wood!! It is pretty hard for the average person to know it is a Woodie when the wood is not there. One guy thought it was a truck!!??
That one will keep Frank busy for quite a while. And the 53 will keep me busy, too. Mike

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#19 Rob McDonald

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 07:27 PM

Wow, what a great start! Nice solid, straight tin with an undercarriage that's cleaner than the bottom of my semi-restored car. Notice the "old-fashioned" wide whitewall tire turned to the inside. Would that be the car's original California black plate? I love that about some States, that the license plate stays with the car for its whole life.

I see some pretty elaborate brackets attaching your temporary D-pillars to the roof. Are there a lot of special steel pieces holding the wood members together? If they're cast shapes, it must be a real challenge when those are missing.
Rob McDonald
1957 Buick Roadmaster model 73A, owned since February 1973

#20 MikesWoodieWorld

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:54 PM

There are two robust corner brackets in the rear upper corners.
We did attach our temporary posts to them.
Luckily, they are attached to the roof rails that go along the inside of the roof from windshield to tailgate, and these are usually very good. I have never had those missing, but some smaller hardware can be frustrating to find.

The first two pictures show the corner bracket: the first one is my 51 (still don't have all the screws in it yet), and the second one is in the 53, and you can see it gets covered by some wood trim after the headliner is in.

In 1953, California would have provided a 1951 license plate (larger than the black plate you see) with a corner metal tab with 53 on it, covering up the 51. In 54 and 55 I believe new corner tabs were issued. In 56, a completely new yellow plate with black letters was issued, and it was the same size as the black plate. From 57-62, foil stickers were issued each year. In 1963, the black plate was issued, and each year a new sticker was issued to the present day. New plates have been issued over the years, but as long as the car maintains its registration and the plate is in good condition, it can stay in use, I believe.
If you look at the rear plate, you can see the orange sticker on the right upper corner. This has 1970 on it, but the left corner has a 1971 damaged green sticker, so that was probably the last year it was registered. Mike

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