xdmn

No back penalties for old cars in California

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Many of you may already know this. I still find many that do not though. There is a directive in the CA DMV code book, 4604(d)3, that exempts most old cars from having any back penalties due to not registering vehicles or not placing them in a "non-op" status. This equates to sometimes as much as $1,000.00 in penalties for not filing. It could make a barn find car somewhat unrestorable if you know you have to pay penalties. Past president of ACCC and active AACA member Jack Passey put this together for us back in the 70's. Thank you Jack.

Let me know if you need more info. Most DMV offices have to be told about this rule as they don't know it themselves.

Bill,

Hello. I currently have a 1984 Mercedes 500sec with tags back 6 years. Im hoping this strategy will work in terms of getting this car up to date without paying the $700 in back fees.

I realized you may be really close to where I am located so I was wondering should I have any issues wold you consider helping me DMV?

Michelle

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hello, my name is mike and i have a question in regards to the above mentioned vehicle codes. my father bought a truck about 5 or six years ago. its a 1984 chevy silverado c20 one ton, with a 350 5.7 litre v8. right now the dmv is telling him that the registration fees owed are around the $2000.00 mark. the truck has been sitting on a ranch unused for 4 of those years. it was purchased from another ranch that used it as a ranch truck only. he has since moved and taken the truck with him but now wants to give ownership of the truck to me. with it being 31 years old, does it fall under any of the above codes to waive back registration fees? the truck ran when purchased, then had some issues where it did not run. we fixed it, then something else went bad, fixed it, then it was something else. my father developed health issues and wasnt able to work and therefore the registration lapsed a few years. it was registered when purchased and was current till 2011. he put a non op on it but dmv revoked it before a year was up. due to being sick he was no longer able to work and could not pay the registration. any help would be greatly appreciated as i want to take ownership and retore the truck. you can email me at mswezea10@gmail.com or call me directly at 805 315 0921. thank you for your time and assistance.

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I have not posted here in a while. However, this continues to be very important. I am a director with the Association of California Car Clubs and Collectors. www.acccdefender.org We are THE watchdog organization for all car folks in CA and have been since 1971 when we were concerned that CARB would be overstepping it's authority, among other things. We can assist when citing this code or applying it. Most DMV clerks are unaware of it or unclear with how it is supposed to be applied. When presented properly, we have never lost a case where the vehicle is supposed to be exempt by statute from non op fees. As long as it has not been on the road, there should be no penalties. 

We are also reviving the discussion and legislation on moving the smog exemption up to 1980 in CA. Let us know if you would like to get involved please. Will need all the help we can get. Hope to be able to get SEMA on board as well.  Seems like a good time to promote this since every classic car enthusiast should be engaged with regards to what the recent re-interpretation by the EPA of altering your own vehicle.

 

Bill Adams

xdmn@yahoo.com

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  I was wondering if anyone has tried / used this on a motorcycle ?

Before I knew of this , I had purchased an 81 Harley Davidson FLT that was a salvage ! I promptly went down as all of us educated Sheeple do and payed my 300+ transfer and the back fees from previous owner stating to the rep that I would be working on this for a few years and i wanted to pay everything so I would just come in and receive my title and plate !

Well after three and a half yrs I had jumped through there hoops had my CHP inspection My brake and light and insured it , I went back to find that they had penalized me for no payment of registration totaling 400+ !!!! Having my address and all pertinent information on me I do not understand why I never received anything giving me the chance at a non-op ! They themselves are unable to explain this to me either !!!!

Being that in California anything over 175 cc (i Believe) is classified a motor vehicle I was hoping this vehicle code could help me !?!?!?

 

P.S. I am not sure if they will do it for cars , but after searching far and wide for the Brake and light chk ranging from to $69 To $99 dollars I found that the Honda MC shop would do it for less than $20.00 !!!

 

P.P.S I would like more info on the legislation for the updated smog exemption ! I would like to help , not sure what I can do on limited funds but I have an 80 F350 I've owned for 28 yrs and have seen 3 or more times that they have bypassed the exemption updates which i have found very frustrating !!!

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Quote

Only age and historic interest is mentioned.

Age is the main factor in dealing with this (25 yrs old and older or a model of which there were less than 2500 sold in CA in a model year)

 

All good information but I found the above especially interesting as it would make my newest car, a 1992 Nissan 240SX Special Edition Convertible, qualify as only 2327 were built and not necessarily all sold in California although I imagine that most were. My own '50s and '60s vintage cars had long ago fallen from the DMV database due to changes in the non-op rule which, for a time some years ago, had to be renewed annually and as I had moved twice and thought my cars had non-ops (which they did when I moved), the DMV in their infinite wisdom deleted them from the database.

 

It wasn't until recently that I discovered the issue so have had to take the necessary steps of having them all VIN verified and applications submitted for the non-ops. A difficult, time-consuming and expensive process, especially considering that they are stored in my Oregon workshop. Since I'm a California resident, Oregon won't let me register them there either so keeping the California titles is apparently the only way unless I want to somehow get dual "citizenship" for the two states! It was part of the reason that I became a VIN verifier myself and through the application process every DMV person I spoke with said, sure, no problem with verifying my own cars. Guess what? Now that I am licensed they tell me that I cannot do so as it's apparently a conflict of interest even though I already have titles in my own name.

Edited by Packard Don (see edit history)

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To register a car in CA:  Contact the CHP and have them come out to your place to verify the VIN.  Go to the DMV with the CHP VIN verification and tell them that you lost the title (pink slip), the registration and the license plates.  They will issue you new plates, pink slip and registration.  Easy peazy.

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The California Highway Patrol no longer makes house calls. Sometimes you can flag down a local police officer but even they will more likely than not refuse to do it so taking the vehicle to the DMV or Highway Patrol, or calling a mobile VIN Verifier are the only ways. Of course, the first two choices would not work for a vehicle stored out of state such as mine and having a mobile VIN Verifier do it was far too expensive.

 

You can also save a lot of time by NOT telling the DMV that you lost the title (pink slip).  Instead, download and fill the appropriate forms, write a check for the fees (there is a fee chart on the DMV Web site) and mail them in. It might take up up to 60 days but unless you're in a real rush, it saves much hassle.  If you are in a rush, fill the application for replacement title, make an appointment, then bring it into the DMV. To register, you'll also need to fill the forms for that and to get plates, another form might be needed but the bottom line is to fill the forms in advance. Be sure to also ask for a month sticker too as it's not automatically sent or given.

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Calif DMV no longer gives direct online access to Motor Vehicle Law.  One has to go to http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&division=3.&title=&part=&chapter=1.&article=5. and do a bunch of reading..   I am not skilled enough to cut and paste or highlight the pertinent information as one needs to go to another section of the vehicle code to read the law that applies to antique vehicles.

 

   I hope some other member knows how to supply current links and possibly top post it to help us in Calif to keep our money in our wallet.

 

Bill

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Here is the current link: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/bb11c904-037d-4638-9311-7a9cc39e8f8a/12vin21.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

 

Vehicles Exempt from Planned Non-operation New Information Planned non-operation (PNO) requirements do not apply to historical interest and special interest vehicles. NOTE: A special interest vehicle is a vehicle of any age that is unaltered from the manufacturer’s original specifications and, because of its significance includes, but is not limited to, an out-of-production vehicle or a model that had less than 2,000 sold in California in a model year that is collected, preserved, restored, or maintained by a hobbyist as a leisure pursuit. Procedures A certificate of non-operation (CNO) is required to renew the expired registration of historical interest and special interest vehicles to waive fees and/or penalties. Background Although historical and special interest vehicles are exempt from PNO requirements, a CNO is required upon renewal. Distribution Notification that this memo is available online, at www.dmv.ca.gov under Publications was made via California DMV’s Automated E-mail Alert System in June 2012.

 

   

Edited by RadRods (see edit history)

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Hi, inquiring is this code still apply CA DMV code book 4604 (d) 3 in Califonia cause I'm going to DMV to register a vehicle thats been for 10 years without a non op but has no tickets and has not been on the road,  if this applies it would great to use so I would avoud and accrue the back, fees that the CA DMV  $1099 is asking for. Let know please, any help would be appreciate,  and I have other vehicle that I would like use this exemption CA DMV code 4604 (d) 3. Thank you in advance Jimmy Perez

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5 minutes ago, MrKarman said:

Hi, inquiring is this code still apply CA DMV code book 4604 (d) 3 in Califonia cause I'm going to DMV to register a vehicle thats been for 10 years without a non op but has no tickets and has not been on the road,  if this applies it would great to use so I would avoud and accrue the back, fees that the CA DMV  $1099 is asking for. Let know please, any help would be appreciate,  and I have other vehicle that I would like use this exemption CA DMV code 4604 (d) 3. Thank you in advance Jimmy Perez

Jimmy, see post #35 above.  I just followed  the link therein and it still works.  You can also call (on a workday) the DMV Public Inquiries Unit in Sacramento at (916) 657-6560,  and ask them for a citation (paragraph number) in the Field Offices' Operations Manual, as the Field Offices (strangely enough) follow that manual but not the Vehicle Code sections like the one you just cited.  The Public Inquiries Unit is MUCH more familiar with the provisions relating to collectible cars than any Field Office.

 

Now, know that this applies to vehicles **eligible** for Historic Vehicle (HV) plates, meaning (1) over 25 model years old and (2) used as collector cars not as daily drivers, no matter what plates are on it now.  As the link tells, you must still fill out a Certificate of Non-Operation (CNO) form in which you declare under oath that the car has not been operated or left standing on a public street or highway since the expiration of the last registration.  As I recall, the CNO is part of another form, but the Public Inquiries Unit can give you the form numbr, and you can download and print the form from the "forms" section of the DMV website.

 

Good luck and Happy New Year!

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Don, that's a good point.  The late Jack Passey got this provision enacted about 25 years ago, BUT DMV drops vehicles from their computers (in most cases) after four years on neither being registered nor non-op'ed.  Seven years ago I had a very difficult time re-registering a 1939 Cad 75 last registered in 1981 even though I had the 1968 title in my name.

 

My advice is that if you have a car already in the system that will be down for awhile, pay the bloody $20/year non-op fee even though you don't have to--just to save a huge expense of time and frustration when you re-activate the car.

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Sorry to resurrect this old post. I just tried this at the CA DMV. They called up to Sacramento who said that my vehicle needed to have historic vehicle plates on it to qualify as being of historic interest. Any advice?

 

1966 Oldsmobile Toronado, last registered to me in 2012.

Edited by Holdsteady (see edit history)

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It needs to have historic plates if you are registering it as a historic vehicle because the plates are part of the historic designation. You didn’t need to get historic plates to insure a vintage vehicle as such, though, and you don’t need to get them if you want only to register it. In other words, you can get a regular registration or you can get a historic registration but the latter requires historic plates. They are required only if registering it as historic. Any particular reason to register it historic?

 

Edited by Packard Don (see edit history)

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Yeah I don't care to register it as a historic vehicle I just want to get the back fees for not registering it PNO waived. The DMV said I had to already have those plates to get the fees waived.

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That’s the first I’ve ever heard that and not sure if the information is valid. As long as the car hasn’t been driven or parked on any public streets, or towed on one, it should have no back-fees.

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