1931 Merchants Express

[farrellg]

You should be able to find a serial number on the frame, drivers side, just behind the front spring mount.

[29dodgetruck]

i found the serial #. now how do i decode it? thanks for the information, i ve been looking all over for some kind of identification.

[farrellg]

I have a 1931 & 1930 DB Truck. Both of my serials start with D. Which I understand is Detroit. But I am no expert. Both Chrysler Museum and AACA Museum had limited info. I was able to verify that serials were valid for a range of years. But I understand it is near impossible to decode trucks of this vintage.

[Guest 1930]

I have some confiendial bulletins that break down the serial numbers just a little. Yes D is Detroit. The bulletins go into detail on identifying where the trucks were built and the serial number ranges. Wood wheels were avail on big trucks so dont let that confuse you.

Pretty sure like I mentioned that lever is 2 speed rear option which was vaccum controlled and had a seperate tank but I could be wrong, pictures would help.

Went and looked but cant put my finger on them now, I remember E was Evansville, D Detroit, cant remember F.

Edited November 13, 2011 by 1930 (see edit history)

[29dodgetruck]

hey thanks for the info guys. i found a site that like you said was a vage generalization of my serial # falling in between 1929 to 32. i also found only

two trucks in this catagory had a 4 cylinder motor stock. the 3/4 ton and 1 ton. my truck is not complete. it is reasonably rough. my decision now is what to do next. i wil try and post some pics to show what i am talking about. and agian thanks for the info you all have shared.

[Willys77]

Just wonder if you Dodge Truck guys shouldn't get this post moved to the Truck Forum one notch down? Better response or more responses? Just a thought.

[farrellg]

Just my limited experience with the forum here. Nothing official. Things I have posted for Dodge Brothers in the Dodge Truck Forum seem to go un-replied. Seems the Dodge Truck forum concentrates on trucks from the mid thirties forward. I have had much more input in the DB forum for my questions/discussions and help regarding my 30 and 31 DB Truck.

[29dodgetruck]

here is a pic of the 29 i aquired.

[Guest 1930]

Good looking truck, I have always liked the small glass in the corners. Looks like a 1/2 or 3/4 ton. The pumpkin in the cars is a monster so no surprised you see it big in this truck.

What are your plans with it.

Can you provide a few pics under the hood?

[29dodgetruck]

yeah any specifics. that was the good side. the other side front wheel wood spokes are broke. the running board is alot rougher.

[Guest 1930]

Trying to give you specifics but you have to play along, we need any numbers that you say you have found, engine number, serial number on the frame, some more ( as requested ) pict and detailed questions on what you are looking for would be helpfull.

Edited November 16, 2011 by 1930 (see edit history)

[29dodgetruck]

the serial # on the frame is D2198xx and the engine block # is U825xx.

[30DodgePanel]

Was wondering if we could revisit this thread ? Haven't seen 29dodgetruck for awhile and was hoping he could share any new info he has found on his truck.

Also, I'm interested in seeing more interior photos of the truck on topic that farrellg owns if I could. The attachements Jason put up doesn't show the dash it only shows the side view but I was wondering if we could see more of the dash and the radiator design. I now understand after reading old threads that your 124wb Merchant Express is a truck and not the Panel but I'm still unclear on what the design of the dash is like.

George, is the dash in your 31 Merchant like these ? And what radiator design do you have ?

Here is 29dodgetruck 's 3/4 ton (I still question if this is a 29 or a 30)

This is from a 30 1 ton off the web with a 4 cyl

This is from a 30 1 1/2 ton off the web with a 4 cyl

Here is my instrument panel from my 3/4 ton with a 6 cyl

Edited January 30, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[farrellg]

Both my 1930 U133 and 1931 U124 have the same dash as pictured. However, they are single gauges for ammeter and oil pressure. The 1930 speedo is kilometer as this was an export truck.

[stakeside]

1929dodgetruck I have a question for the truck shown.

The frame has a # D-2198xx and a Ply 4 engine. It appears the frame is quite different than my "E" series 1929 DB. My frame is straight on top with no aise over the rear axle.

I thought the frame for all D-175xxxx to D-237xxx were straight over the axle like mine. Maybe Detroit "D" trucks changed the frame.

Is your truck a U-124?

.

[30DodgePanel]

Both my 1930 U133 and 1931 U124 have the same dash as pictured. However, they are single gauges for ammeter and oil pressure. The 1930 speedo is kilometer as this was an export truck.

Thanks George, thats interesting.

How about the radiator design ? Are they Chrome or Painted ?

So your radiator and emblem look like this ?

or is it like this ?

Edited January 30, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

farrellg and stakeside,

one other thing.

Where are your vacuum tanks located?

I realize it should be a kingston but I've seen guys put them in different locations. Is there a reason for this ? Because as far as I know they are supposed to mount on the firewall passenger side but I've seen them on the drivers side as well.

Thanks for the replies,

Dave

[30DodgePanel]

It appears the frame is quite different than my "E" series 1929 DB. My frame is straight on top with no aise over the rear axle.

I thought the frame for all D-175xxxx to D-237xxx were straight over the axle like mine. Maybe Detroit "D" trucks changed the frame.

Is your truck a U-124?

My DA-124 Panel frame is D231751 and it also has the raised section over the rear wheels. Could be because they were made in Detroit , I've never seen that info though.:confused:

Seems like I remember a gentleman by the name of Bill on here who has done some extensive research on the plants, locations and the GB DB transition days. I bet if anyone knows it's him.

Very curious to know the answer to that question as well.

Edited January 30, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

1929dodgetruck I have a question for the truck shown.

The frame has a # D-2198xx and a Ply 4 engine. It appears the frame is quite different than my "E" series 1929 DB. My frame is straight on top with no aise over the rear axle.

I thought the frame for all D-175xxxx to D-237xxx were straight over the axle like mine. Maybe Detroit "D" trucks changed the frame.

Is your truck a U-124?

.[ATTACH=CONFIG]175223[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]175224[/ATTACH]

I believe you will find lower tonnage trucks only carried these drop frames, single drop or double drop, these trucks were specifically designed for in town use, delivery, constant stops, designers were trying to adapt the frames in a way that made loading/un-loading easy and of course to lower the vehicle too the ground only makes sense.

I have something about this in print, cant remember what or where but it went into detail the urgency to put these small delivery vehicles down in the weeds.

I believe you will find that the higher capacity trucks or trucks that were designed for heavier loads further traveling distances or long hauls use the straight frames only in the later years of our interest here.

I believe that this may be a sign or a tell of a smaller tonnage vehicle but at this point all of this is speculation conjured up over material that I have studied, always open to a debate.

Would you mind telling me why you felt this.........I thought the frame for all D-175xxxx to D-237xxx were straight over the axle like mine................There must have been something that you have seen that would have given you such a strong opinion.

This is a partial explanation of these frames and their ancestry from DodgeKCL...........

Frames originally started out as flat channels that if put on a shop floor would lay just as flat as the floor. No humps or protrusions. Eventually the manufacturers wanted to lower their cars to the ground. To do this they had to 'retract' the axles up into the body. To do this they put a 'hump' in the rear of the frame over the rear axle and this arch allowed the rear axle to come up into the car interior under the rear seat but allowed the builders to drop the body down around the rear axle making the car lower in the rear. Eventually they put an arch over the front axle and they called this a 'double dropped frame'. As far as I know 1927 Model T Fords,the last of the Ts, were the last vehicles to have a flat frame

Edited January 31, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[stakeside]

I believe you will find lower tonnage trucks only carried these drop frames, single drop or double drop, these trucks were specifically designed for in town use, delivery, constant stops, designers were trying to adapt the frames in a way that made loading/un-loading easy and of course to lower the vehicle too the ground only makes sense.

I have something about this in print, cant remember what or where but it went into detail the urgency to put these small delivery vehicles down in the weeds.

I believe you will find that the higher capacity trucks or trucks that were designed for heavier loads further traveling distances or long hauls use the straight frames only in the later years of our interest here.

I believe that this may be a sign or a tell of a smaller tonnage vehicle but at this point all of this is speculation conjured up over material that I have studied, always open to a debate.

Would you mind telling me why you felt this.........I thought the frame for all D-175xxxx to D-237xxx were straight over the axle like mine................There must have been something that you have seen that would have given you such a strong opinion.

This is a partial explanation of these frames and their ancestry from DodgeKCL...........

Frames originally started out as flat channels that if put on a shop floor would lay just as flat as the floor. No humps or protrusions. Eventually the manufacturers wanted to lower their cars to the ground. To do this they had to 'retract' the axles up into the body. To do this they put a 'hump' in the rear of the frame over the rear axle and this arch allowed the rear axle to come up into the car interior under the rear seat but allowed the builders to drop the body down around the rear axle making the car lower in the rear. Eventually they put an arch over the front axle and they called this a 'double dropped frame'. As far as I know 1927 Model T Fords,the last of the Ts, were the last vehicles to have a flat frame

I have only come across the straight frame trucks. I quess my assumption was incorrect.

Thanks your explanation.

[29dodgetruck]

hy guys. i did find that my truck is a 1930 u133. i measured the wheel base and it mesure 133". i looked it up in the 21-33 dodge truck parts book and found that the u133 was made 1930 -31. other than that i bought an original instruction manual for the 1 ton trucks (4 and 6 cylinders ). secound edition dated october 1929. as far as the instrument gauges, what you have pictured is what i have also. i am begining to believe that from 1 ton to 1/2 ton used the exspress cab. the 11/2 ton and bigger used a simular but different cab fenders running boards. or at least when i checked on some parts for sale thats what differences i found. as far as the frame rails with the hump over the back wheels i read something some where where that was new for 28-29. i do have a question. i have bought a couple of hub pullers to try and remove the rear wheels. so far no luck. if i found the right size it wasnt deep enough. andbody got any ideas. thanks

[farrellg]

Both my trucks have chrome radiator shells as well as bumpers.

[Guest 1930]

I have only come across the straight frame trucks. I quess my assumption was incorrect.

Thanks your explanation.

From what I am able to gather as the 30s progressed we will see more double drop frames or frames being humped at both ends regardless of tonnage. I am not clear when any truck went with I.F.S. but I do know that it was at some point beyond 1935 as models prior carried the Elliot type still. Beyond that I do not have much of an interest anyway.

Might be the autos continued to use the Elliot type then went straight into the I.F.S whilst the trucks started with the Elliot and then went with the reverse Elliot type. This is the pattern I am noticing anyway reading data books.

I would be interested to hear if 29dodgetruck and 30dodgepanel have a straight frame at the front?

I believe theirs will both be straight, I have a suspicion that we will not see double drop frames until sometime in 31/32 time frame.

[Guest 1930]

Thanks George, thats interesting.

How about the radiator design ? Are they Chrome or Painted ?

So your radiator and emblem look like this ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]175232[/ATTACH]

or is it like this ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]175233[/ATTACH]

I have had an interest in this topic ...........(How about the radiator design ? Are they Chrome or Painted ?)...........as well. There does seem to be alot of variances with this if you take into consideration the earlier Dodge/Graham trucks as well.

What do you know about this or what have you found, you must have found something somewhere to give you the assumption that both finishes were avail.

I would be interested to hear what that is.

Maybe since you brought it up you could start a new post concerning this, I believe I have quite a bit to add to this and it would be a shame to be lost or maybe un-seen by anyone else that might have info to add if it is muddled down in this post.

Edited January 31, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

From what I've found the change for a few changes took place in different years. The interior, the exterior bell molding, mirrors and where they were located, bumper styles, and even bumper medallions seem to have a variation in some instances.

For instance the radiator from 28 GB's started the change in style from 28 to some time in 29 to a smoother radiator shell. In 29 some were painted shrouds but mostly chrome with the winged DB emblems in 29 and 30 like the ones on the 29 Merchant Express at the Museum and my truck.

Then I noticed a change in 31 and 32 were all the deep blue porcelein triangular shaped emblems with the chrome radiator shrouds.

My guess without seeing the other guys radiators is that

Stakeside has a GB emblem

Farrellg has maybe one of each, a winged DB on the 30 and the blue triangle DB logo on the 31.

And 29Dodgetruck has the winged DB emblem as well although his truck is more than likely a 30 not a 29 as he has indicated already.

Would that be a fair assessment gents ? So if that's true it's pretty easy to tell one year from the next. 28 was the last year for GB radiator emblem from all indications with possibly some carryovers into 29. 29 and 30 were the same then 31 32 were the same.

Interiors were the same from what I can tell from 28 and 29 then 30, 31 and 32 were the same.

As for the straight frame, I'll have to check and get back to you. I believe it's straight but I just want to be sure. It does dip down at the horn where the bumper mounts but I don't think that's what your talking about. Your talking about over the front axle correct ?

Edited January 31, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

From what I've found the change for a few changes took place in different years. The interior, the exterior bell molding, mirrors and where they were located, bumper styles, and even bumper medallions seem to have a variation in some instances.

For instance the radiator from 28 GB's started the change in style from 28 to some time in 29 to a smoother radiator shell. In 29 some were painted shrouds but mostly chrome with the winged DB emblems in 29 and 30 like the ones on the 29 Merchant Express at the Museum and my truck.

Then I noticed a change in 31 and 32 were all the deep blue porcelein triangular shaped emblems with the chrome radiator shrouds.

My guess without seeing the other guys radiators is that

Stakeside has a GB emblem

Farrellg has maybe one of each, a winged DB on the 30 and the blue triangle DB logo on the 31.

And 29Dodgetruck has the winged DB emblem as well although his truck is more than likely a 30 not a 29 as he has indicated already.

Would that be a fair assessment gents ? So if that's true it's pretty easy to tell one year from the next. 28 was the last year for GB radiator emblem from all indications with possibly some carryovers into 29. 29 and 30 were the same then 31 32 were the same.

Interiors were the same from what I can tell from 28 and 29 then 30, 31 and 32 were the same.

As for the straight frame, I'll have to check and get back to you. I believe it's straight but I just want to be sure. It does dip down at the horn where the bumper mounts but I don't think that's what your talking about. Your talking about over the front axle correct ?

I am referring to the entire frame area forward of the rear hump that you mention with the exception of the very front frame horn.

Stakesides truck is D.B so it carries the D.B emblems as well as George and 29dodgetruck. You mentioned that you were interested in finish of these shrouds ( maybe that is no longer the case ) that is why I suggested that you start a new post and we could work it out.

Edited January 31, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Stakesides truck is D.B so it carries the D.B emblems.

Yes, I was just looking at some pics of it the other day now I recall what I was thinking. The shape of his radiator is closer to the 28 GB's than the smoother ones from 29 forward.

I'll let you know on the frame .

[stakeside]

My radiator was nickel plated and carries the DB emblem. The shell has a raised ridge as does the Graham trucks.

Check my profile album pictures.

My vacuum tank is a Stewart Warner and is located on the drivers side. This is my S-114xxx truck.

[30DodgePanel]

stakeside,

That really is a great lookin truck and your doing a nice job on it.

1930,

"I am referring to the entire frame area forward of the rear hump that you mention with the exception of the very front frame horn".

Yep. Thats the style of frame I have.

[farrellg]

Both my emblems are the winged DB on the 30 and 31. Vacuum tanks are on the fire wall, passenger side. 30 is a Stewart and 31 is a Kinston. Both trucks are very similar, however there are some differences like the vacuum tanks. I will check the frames tomorrow to be sure if they are straight or pocketed.

[30DodgePanel]

Both my emblems are the winged DB on the 30 and 31.

George, thanks for that info.

Can I ask, were both trucks fitted with the winged emblem when you purchased them or have you added anything ? Is it your view they are both original equipment ?

Also, if they were fitted with them when you purchased them have you confirmed the parts numbers according to documention for your 31 being winged originally ?

Not trying to be a smart a** or stoke a fire, I'm just trying to figure this out respectfully so I hope no one takes offense to my line of questioning.

I'm just wondering...

all my research tells me the winged emblem stopped sometime in 30 but obviously I am wrong in that assumption, so is the one on Georges truck a carry over ? I ask because all the 31's and 32's according to some things I've found from showroom photos like from the WPC news Feb 1979 Issue shows all of the blue triangular emblems and the radiator caps that have the DB logo on top of the cap and it's specifically discussing the 31 and 32 model trucks, not the 30 or 29. So again I'm still wondering how your 31 is a winged emblem ? Not saying your wrong, it's just a question that I'm putting forth.

As I said, I'm trying to play catch up to most of what everyone knows already so forgive me if I'm asking redundant questions. I just want to solve some mysteries that we've all had according to the many posts I've read for the last 2 years since I became interested in this Panel truck of mine.

Edited February 1, 2013 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Thought you guys may want to see some of these from the WPC news 1979 if you haven't already

[30DodgePanel]

couple of more

[farrellg]

George, thanks for that info.

Can I ask, were both trucks fitted with the winged emblem when you purchased them or have you added anything ? Is it your view they are both original equipment ?

Also, if they were fitted with them when you purchased them have you confirmed the parts numbers according to documention for your 31 being winged originally ?

Not trying to be a smart a** or stoke a fire, I'm just trying to figure this out respectfully so I hope no one takes offense to my line of questioning.

I'm just wondering...

all my research tells me the winged emblem stopped sometime in 30 but obviously I am wrong in that assumption, so is the one on Georges truck a carry over ? I ask because all the 31's and 32's according to some things I've found from showroom photos like from the WPC news Feb 1979 Issue shows all of the blue triangular emblems and the radiator caps that have the DB logo on top of the cap and it's specifically discussing the 31 and 32 model trucks, not the 30 or 29. So again I'm still wondering how your 31 is a winged emblem ? Not saying your wrong, it's just a question that I'm putting forth.

As I said, I'm trying to play catch up to most of what everyone knows already so forgive me if I'm asking redundant questions. I just want to solve some mysteries that we've all had according to the many posts I've read for the last 2 years since I became interested in this Panel truck of mine.

Both truck are are fitted with the same winged emblem. I included a picture. These were original when I got the truck. I have had several questions from others on these. It seems these are accurate original to the U-133 and U-124 as identified by the parts book. According to the Truck Parts Manual, Merch Exp, U-124, DA-124, U-133, DA-133 all have the same part number 522259. The parts book does not break down by year, only model. I have found many differences for my truck models. Case in point, my U-133 has steel wheels. Many told me this was incorrect for a 1930. We do know the 1930 was being exported to France when it was damaged and sold at auction. It has a kilometer speedo. Parts book list the exception for steel wheels for the U-133 for export only. These models were only available around 30 - 31. They seem to be a bit of an odd duck. Both my truck frames are straight over front axle and humped over rear. Both frames are identical other than length. I have found that finding ads and or literature from 30 - 31 on the U-133 and U-124 is very limited. I do know alot of the parts for these vehicles seem to be specific to these models. King pins, spring bolts etc....

[Guest 1930]

hey i just purchased a 1929 db truck. it had wooden spoke wheels. it also has a thumb lock deal on the shifter. besides the silver dome engine # where on the frame is identification #s. trying to determine if it is a 3/4 ton or 1/2 ton , the rear axle looks a little big to be a half ton. any help would be appreciated.

I was wondering if you could post a picture of the thumb lock deal on the shifter, unless it was an aftermarket deal ( which I now doubt ) than I was prob. incorrect about it being for a two speed rear end.....ok I was most likely incorrect, although two speeds were plentiful during this time period as far as from what I have learned since you made this post D.B was not one of them that used this set-up. Thanks

[farrellg]

Jason, I believe this thumb piece on the shifter is a reverse lock out. That way under normal circumstances one does not put it in reverse by mistake while diving. My U133 1 ton has one.

[Guest 1930]

Yes that is what Ron said he thought it could be, do you have a picture George, I guess I better look in the manual you sent me before I ask that. Hopefully it is there, if not a picture would be nice, thanks

[30DodgePanel]

Heres a look from my 3/4 ton Instruction Book that may help. Notice it's not available in the 3/4 tons.

[Guest 1930]

Heres a look from my 3/4 ton Instruction Book that may help. Notice it's not available in the 3/4 tons.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]177335[/ATTACH]

If the picture is in the book George sent me I will post it, thanks

Edit: Nope looks like the same picture as 30dodgepanel posted

Edited February 9, 2013 by 1930 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]179030[/ATTACH]Post is old but thought I'd throw my two cents in.....I believe the Merchant Express was a 1/2 ton,1929 model only. It came with a 109" wheel base and a 4-cylinder engine. I have a 32' 1/2 ton F-10 pickup but it wasn't called a Merchant Express, 1/2 ton Models were UF-10 (4-cyl) or the optional F-10 (6-cyl) model both with 109' wheel base. Wood spoked wheels, No extra window behind the door and full rear window.

Can you post the link to the thread where you found it ?

Also, weren't you the one looking for a Lockheed Master Cylinder a while back ? Did you ever find one ? I may have one if your still interested, I'll have to double check if it's the right part number for your situation and make sure it's rebuildable so send me the part numbers and year and make of vehicle it's going in and I'll double check to verify it's correct. I think I also spoke to you about an engine and tranny last year,, if I remember right your name is Kevin ?

If you still need a master cylinder let me know and I'll check my shop. You pay for postage and it's yours.