RUST DOES SLEEP, ACTUALLY (life with a '57 Roadmaster)

[jackofalltrades70]

Glad that the Valiant is better than you were expecting. Keep on keeping on. Got any pictures of the Valiant? Matt

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow. Will let you know when they're available on the AACA Plymouth Forum.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Dirty pictures can now be seen at http://forums.aaca.org/f154/horned-toad-62-valiant-will-following-343438.html#post1145600

[Guest Rob McDonald]

(Another off-topic post, all of which feed - sort of - into the continuing story of my Roadmaster.)

Less than a year after buying my first car - the Buick in the title of this thread - I bought a new 1973 MGB roadster. It has actually served me very well as a summer car for the ensuing 39 years. However, I am sick to death of it - the awful ride, the noise, the awkward seating, the heavy steering. So, today I sold it. This beautiful but obsolete sports car will be in new hands after I get home from work tonight.

For the first time in my adult life, I will be without a car to drive. My Buick is in pieces and my Valiant is a bit of a joke. I do have a valid bus pass for the rest of the month, so I've got time to think about what's next.

So long, old partner.

[JohnD1956]

Nothing like a hot ride to make you forget about the bits and pieces in the garage. Sounds like the opportunity you've been hoping for to reassemble the 57 and join us in 2014. How about some pics of the bits and pieces?

[Guest Rob McDonald]

57BUICKJIM, THERIOS don't get too excited but as one door closes, another opens. I just bought a Caballero and it's an excellent runner. Pictures eventually.

[1939_Buick]

.. I just bought a Caballero and it's an excellent runner....

I had to google that. Nice buy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_Sprint_/_Caballero. Good to transport car parts like a slant 6.

But its just like a Holden ute in Australia (engines from 3800 V6 to V8)

Holden Utes, 2013 Utes: Holden.com.au

Holden Ute the Ultimate Sports Machine 2013 Australia – Holden.com.au

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupe_utility

Edited June 11, 2013 by 1939_buick (see edit history)

[therios]

Rob,

After reading the entry about the sale of your MGB, I looked down at your signature to see how you have changed it. The MGB no longer appears, as expected, but I was surprised to see the new line "1984 GMC Caballero, ..." I was about to PM you about until I saw this post! Congratulations! I look forward to the photos.

Ike

57BUICKJIM, THERIOS don't get too excited but as one door closes, another opens. I just bought a Caballero and it's an excellent runner. Pictures eventually.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

But its just like a Holden ute in Australia

It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to hope for a Buick ute someday. Holdens share a lot of DNA with Opel and many Buicks are badge-engineered Opels. GM already has a lock on the name, so why not a new Buick Caballero?

Not mine but just like it, 'cept mine has cooler wheels.

[1939_Buick]

. Holdens share a lot of DNA with Opel and many Buicks are badge-engineered Opels...

25 years ago some DNA was common with Opel. Do not know of any V8 rear wheel drive Opels.

GM Holden's are now quite unique & GMH does design for GM

http://www.holden.com.au/corporate/inside-holden

Who we are - Design - Innovation - About

http://media.gm.com/media/au/en/holden/company.html

A great example is the reborn Chevy Camaro, originally created as a 60s homage concept by GM designers in the USA and later approved for production. The rear-wheel drive VE Commodore platform best suited the project and Holden designers and engineers took on the complex task of transforming muscle car concept into reality.

So is the straight 6 / V8 rear wheel drive Ford Falcon (until 2016) http://forums.aaca.org/f169/another-one-bites-dust-351793.html#post1172229

Edited June 11, 2013 by 1939_buick (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Hey, the stars aligned and I've spent some time working on my Buick again. Just 11 months 'til I drive it to Portland, y'know. Continued stripping loose paint and rust off the front of the engine. In my recent move, I misplaced my Dremel kit, so I'm struggling to clean-up some of the nooks and crannies.

I removed all the sheet metal pieces - valve covers, oil pan, valley cover - and will get them chemically stripped. Found a local source for POR15 products and have ordered a quart of engine enamel in "Buick Green, '53-'65". I don't have compressed air but the shop has convinced me to try an "aerosol paint gun" - I'll let you know how that works out. But it's a bloody engine compartment - show quality is not my goal; I just want the engine all one colour again.

I'm liking the daily driver Valiant just fine but look forward to enjoying the luxuries of a top-line Buick again.

[JohnD1956]

Hey, you may want to brush that POR 15 paint so as to reduce the vaporization of the isocynates ( sp) in it. And glad the stars are in place to get it going again.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

If those iso-whatsits are what sticks paint to metal, I'll do whatever it takes to make sure I'm not doing this again in twenty years. Maybe I'll brush it on the cast iron and spray it on the sheet metal, which is easier to redo someday.

[JohnD1956]

test it out on a piece of sheet metal or an old valve cover. The POR 15 is supposed to be self leveling if brushed. And if you keep it out of your lungs you may be around in twenty years to see if it lasted.

[Guest shadetree77]

Rob, I used the POR-15 engine paint too and I recommend doing exactly what you said above. Brush it on the cast stuff and spray it on the sheet metal. You WILL NOT get good results trying to brush that paint onto a smooth surface. Well, you can get what I'd call "pretty good" results if you buy a really expensive paint brush but it's not easy and it still won't be perfect. It is somewhat difficult to work with because it is so thick. It tends to sag very badly if brushed onto a smooth surface. It works beautifully on rough surfaces such as engine blocks, etc. Spray it on the sheet metal stuff if you can. Be aware, that stuff is extremely THICK. It contains way more pigment and/or solids than a normal paint so if you spray it, it will have to be thinned. You must use Xylol/Xylene to cut it. There's a ratio for thinning in the instructions. Make sure you wear a respirator when spraying. Good luck and post some pictures for us when you get her painted!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

JOHN, scout's honour, I promise not to breathe paint. ROBERT, you've been through the same thing recently, so I'm following your lead and only spraying the smooth parts that show. By '57, Buick was no longer putting decals on the valve covers, so they have to look good.

Will be picking up my paint supplies on Friday. Found my Dremel tool, btw.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Had a good day in the garage today. Used POR15 "Marine Clean" and "Prep & Ready" to clean and degrease the semi-assembled engine, which I will partially repaint. Also finished stripping and prep'ing the engine sheet metal. Things are looking shiny and bright, all set to paint tomorrow.

I'm nervous about the paint, also a POR15 product. All the toxic warnings make me fear the local Sierra Club will swoop in, as soon as I open the can. Charming stuff - if you try to reseal the container, without putting two layers of Saran wrap between the lid and the tin, the paint will adhere them, so that you'll never get it open again without a can opener. Once opened, there's a very short shelf life anyway.

Because of this, the manufacturer doesn't recommend trying to use this paint in two sessions. Gotta work fast. First thing in the morning, I'll mix up a batch and spray the sheet metal parts. While that's drying, I'll use a brush, full strength, to do the cast stuff.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Rob McDonald (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

no pictures?

[therios]

no pictures?

Yes, c'mon Rob. Post some pictures!

[therios]

Rob, what happened to the '84 GMC Caballero? It no longer appears in your signature.

The part of the thread quoted below was from mid-June. However, since changing one's signature affects the signature displayed in all previous posts, I can't tell when the '84 Caballero was dropped from your signature. I have reviewed your posts since June, but I haven't found any mention of the Caballero's fate. Did the '67 Valiant take the place of the '84 Caballero? I don't know if I just missed it or if I have completely forgotten that discussion. :confused: In which case, I may have to adjust my medication. (Less wine; more Guinness!)

Ike

Rob,

After reading the entry about the sale of your MGB, I looked down at your signature to see how you have changed it. The MGB no longer appears, as expected, but I was surprised to see the new line "1984 GMC Caballero, ..." I was about to PM you about until I saw this post! Congratulations! I look forward to the photos.

Ike

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Rob, what happened to the '84 GMC Caballero?

The Cabo was a temporary measure, after I unexpectedly sold the MG. My brother had this car/truck sitting around, awaiting some hotrod work. So he kindly sold it to me for $1. The deal includes a similar buy-back clause, with a full tank of gas. After I got the Valiant, I no longer needed the loaner but my brother's driveway is full, so he's asked me to keep it for a while. Technically, then, I still own it but I'm not driving it much these days. The little Plymouth suits me just fine.

Glad to see your Duece-and-a-quarter and your Roady now appearing in your signature, btw.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

no pictures?

Yup, pictures are now up. The painting went well. I'm just taking a break from cleaning up. The aerosol sprayer worked okay. The spray pattern was pretty feeble, with no trace of a nice fantail. I cut the paint one-to-one and found it very thin. Everything needed two coats and the small parts could still use a third. I'd be tempted to try it full strength for spraying. When I first shot the valve covers, the surface was like glass but the metal was showing through around the edges. The second coat went on a little rougher but, heck, it's now probably more like the factory did it.

Brush painting the cast parts was a success. The colour is a perfect match for what I put on the engine thirty years ago, so I only had to touch up the areas where I'd stripped the failed paint. All in all, a pretty good day.

engine stripped and prep'ed

sheet metal flashed over with rust overnight and had to be re-prep'ed

laundry line needs another coat

valve covers - not too shiny, thank goodness

nailhead and Dynaflow, ready for reassembly

[old-tank]

Lookin' good! Flash rust may not be a bad thing. It means that the surface is oil free. Old time painters would put parts outside at night so that the morning dew would cause flash rust --- gave the surface a better 'tooth' for the paint to stick to, they claimed.

[Guest shadetree77]

Looking good indeed Rob! I think I know why your paint came out thin though. Instructions say to thin at a 1 part thinner to 5 part paint ratio. 1 to 1 is way too thin. Can't wait to see it reassembled.

[JohnD1956]

sweet!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Instructions say to thin at a 1 part thinner to 5 part paint ratio. 1 to 1 is way too thin.

Oh dear. I think you're right. The sheet that came with the paint is headed, "INSTRUCTIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T READ INSTRUCTIONS". Hey, I read them; I just read them upside down, apparently. An ounce of thinner in five ounces of paint makes much more sense, now that I've been through the exercise. If the stuff hasn't solidified in the can by next weekend, I'll give that a try. The small parts just didn't have enough surface area to hold onto the tinted wash that I teased them with. I wondered why there was way more paint on the drop cloths than there was on the parts.

When I rebuilt the engine and detailed it 25 years ago, I forgot to paint the oil filler caps before I ran out of green paint. I ended up painting them black. Guess what I found in a box, after cleaning up yesterday? This gives me further motivation to set up my paint shop again, maybe as early as tonight.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Rob McDonald
afterthought (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Much, much nicer! The now-thicker paint went on like, well, like paint instead of like brush wash. I resprayed all of the small parts, as well as the valley cover, on which the paint was a bit sparse. This time I remembered to do the oil filler caps, just as the second Preval aerosol cylinder ran out of pssst. Other than the lack of a positive spray pattern. these handy $10 devices provide good service for a small job like this - Preval — The Preval Spray System. For someone like me who hates cleaning painting tools, it's very nice just to drop the spent unit in the trash.

Next task is to clean and touch up the engine compartment. It's still pretty tidy from when I did it many years ago. It should be - I've hardly driven the car since the late 1980s. I then need to inventory the standard fasteners that I removed recently. As much as possible, I want to replace them all with new zinc chromate-plated hardware. It's not authentic but they'll sure be nicer to work to with in ten or twenty years, as needed. An exception is those unique dish-headed hex screws, with captive square washers, that fasten the front sheet metal together. I've gathered up a jam can of those and will get them re-galvanized to use again.

With a clean engine room and a tray full of shiny nuts and bolts, I'll take a week off work in September or October to reinstall the drive train. I am so looking forward to hearing my sweet nailhead burble through its dual pipes, just as it did the last time I went through this process. Yikes - then I was single, in my thirties, and had no idea what life had in store for me. I still don't know, except that now there's a lot less of it ahead, through which to suffer.

[JohnD1956]

You won't be sufferin in life when you get that Roadie back together, and get your award at the next National Meet.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Well, October is turning into November but I have booked some vacation time to work on my Buick soon. I have an old friend, who's retired, lined up to help me. Here's a pic of the car last summer (not yet running), to remind me how awesome it's going to be, to drive a Roadmaster for the first time in 20 years.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Rob McDonald
Jeez, I love that roofline! (see edit history)

[1957buickjim]

Hello Rob,

And so do I...what a sweet ride my man..

[JohnD1956]

...what a sweet ride my man..

X2. So looking forward to Portland and this car.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I'm nearing the end of my garage vacation and have made satisfactory progress. A friend came in from the west coast to help with wrenching, which has made a tremendous difference. I can't imagine doing this work on my own. It seems there are many Buick tasks that absolutely require a box end wrench held from above and a socket with loooong extensions, operated from below. Mind you, my buddy has two 12-cylinder Jaguars and he's been raving about how accessible everything is on this Buick.

Last year's crime scene.

Me and Adrian, the Jag victim.

One of our biggest challenges was re-engaging the back of the Dynaflow with the torque tube ("Torture" Tube, I now call it). When I pulled the drivetrain last year, I had mistakenly removed the front flange of the torque ball. I now re-read the shop manual, which suggests instead disconnecting the torque ball rear flange. I did so, then reassembled the torque ball and everything slipped into place.

The other major grief was the throttle linkage. Thankfully, I hadn't broken the sections down too far. After several hours of puzzling without nearly enough "before" photos, we managed to get it all back in.

I didn't accomplish many of my detailing ambitions; there are many places where my previous paintwork failed but I'm okay with that. This car is meant to be a driver and, overall, the engine room looks pretty good.

The engine itself is now fully assembled. No fluids yet - I'm savouring the experience, probably temporary, of having no leaks. I hesitate to buy a battery at this point, so I'll be borrowing my Valiant's battery for first startup. Not sure when that will occur.

There are still dozens of projects to overcome before I start driving the car - fixing some bad brake hydraulics, activating the windshield wipers, adjusting the bumpers, installing the grille and acres of trim, finally assembling the dashboard, and on and on and on. Upholstery work will be done some other year, as will connecting the A/C system.

Driving this Buick to Portland next July still seems like a fantasy but I'm very much closer to achieving it than I was a week ago. Must keep moving forward, one week at a time.

[therios]

Awesome progress Rob! I'm excited for you. You must be feeling pretty good about all you and your wrenching buddy managed to accomplish over your garage vacation. Keep up the good work and in no time you'll be driving that baby around town and ready for the drive to Portland!

Hey, now you can return that rented engine hoist!

Ike

[49_buick_super]

...There are still dozens of projects to overcome before I start driving the car - fixing some bad brake hydraulics, activating the windshield wipers, adjusting the bumpers, installing the grille and acres of trim, finally assembling the dashboard, and on and on and on. Upholstery work will be done some other year, as will connecting the A/C system. Driving this Buick to Portland next July still seems like a fantasy but I'm very much closer to achieving it than I was a week ago. Must keep moving forward, one week at a time.

I know this feeling very well. But the goal makes it all worth it. Excellent progress, Rob. Looks great!

Dan

[JohnD1956]

Oh man! That lady looks like she is ready to roll. BTW, I just LOVE this picture of your Buick

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Thanks for the encouragement, guys, it does feel good to have moved the ball so far upfield. I hope to try to start the engine next weekend. Must look for a good deal on 7 quarts of motor oil, 2 gallons of antifreeze, and 13 quarts of transmission fluid.

Couple of puzzles: there are two steel tubes that go nowhere. One leaves the square brass vacuum fitting at the front of the intake manifold and travels tight to the righthand valve cover, where it ends with a wad of dried-up masking tape. It's probably the vacuum feed to the windshield wipers but I don't have that figured out yet. The external fitting at the oil/vacuum pump is plugged with a bolt, so it seems that someone chose to bypass that auxiliary vacuum source. The wipers did work when I drove this car originally but I haven't rigged them again since replacing the engine. Happily, there's lots of good advice of these forums regarding '57-'58 Buicks wipers.

The other tube leaves the choke coil, wrapped in cloth insulation, follows the right side valve cover, and then drops at the back of the head, terminating open-ended and damaged, vaguely near the exhaust manifold heat riser valve. Pretty sure it's supposed to feed hot air to the choke, to help with drivability as the engine warms up. I may have to fabricate a new line to accomplish that. There's nothing in the shop manual about it, so I'll have to figure out how it connects to the manifold. I've recently learned that there's an unmolested '57 Buick stored not far from me, which will be a great help in solving this sort of mystery.

Once again, I was disappointed in the quality of the Buick shop manual. There are very few illustrations of the engine or any of its accessories, in their installed condition. Everything is shown out of the car, which is no help to hacks like me, who take things apart and don't document them properly.

It's been said a thousand times before but I'm going to repeat it anyway: take a stupid amount of pictures as you dive into a project. You can never have too many and not matter how clever you are, you will forget some details. It was only one year between my teardown and reassembly but it was like someone else had done the previous work. The handful of pictures I had were worth their weight in gold. Well, digital images don't weigh anything but you know what I mean.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Rob McDonald (see edit history)

[buick5563]

The heat choke tube does go into a hole in the exhaust manifold. Get under there with a flashlight and you should be able to see it.

[buick man]

Great progress Rob. Hey is that your "Old Friend" stuck under the car? Or it Looks like your hired shop tech without his white coat re-examining for probably the fourth time the paint texture and casting imprints of the block just near the flywheel cover just so he can report his findings back to buickjim so it can be duly documented !

[Guest Rob McDonald]

DAVID, I'm afraid that old guy under the car is me. I'm also afraid that looking for BuickMan or BuickJim originality on my Roady would be a lost cause. Everything that's not still grimy has been redone with an eye for convenience and serviceability, while pure authenticity may have suffered. I haven't intentionally altered anything but when you live a couple thousand miles from the hotbeds of this hobby, "good enough" often has to be good enough.

MIKE, winter clobbered Alberta with a vengeance last night, so this Saturday that I might have spent searching for a heat riser manifold hole and pouring fluids into the Buick, was instead spent hunkering down and shovelling snow.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Rob McDonald (see edit history)

[buick man]

Ha! Just ribbing ya pal. Just like putting underwear back on right, brown to the back and yellow to the front so too is it with a car. Greasy bottoms and cleany tops.

BTW it now kinda looks like you were really just trying to find that damn ratchet/socket. Hate it when that happens.

O.K. Now you're making me feel guilty bitching about our recent cold wave around here into the lower 60's during the day. Might have to even use a faster reducer to get things done for next year in Oregon.

Don't stop now Rob your on the home stretch.