buick5563 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 That is exactly what my Convertible was bored to (+.030 / -.010) Seems like what machine shops wanna do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Mine as well....also the crank was .01 under. It was decked, line honed and 2 point full rotation balanced with flywheel and harmonic balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Is that size standard ( sort of) because that's whats available as over sized bearings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 MudThat's a bummer about the pistons/bores, since the available pistons at least from Egge are a compromise. They list the same piston for 54 and 55 which will give you a cranking compression of 120# vs 160# from stock 55 pistons...this will get you back to 200 hp vs 236 hp. Sure, you can use regular gas, cruise all day at 70 mph getting 15 mpg vs 17 mpg. But the "seat of pants" zip of stock 55 will not be there. I have stock pistons in 2 of my 322's and one with Egge pistons and there is a very discernible difference in performance. If you do end up with Egge pistons and don't balance the whole assembly, be sure to at least match the pistons, which in my case were way off. Also, check that all pistons are the same size before installing the connecting rods. A set of 0.030" oversize that I received from Egge had one 0.040" oversize in the box.In the past 1956 Buick pistons have been used (1956 Buick Performance Parts) with 1955 heads resulting in even higher compression, but I have no idea what the available 56 pistons are like. And I heard of one case where this trick was used and the pistons hit the head.Save at least one of your stock pistons and attach it and your replacement to the same wrist pin to see what the differences are.Happy Shopping!Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 So what your saying is that you can not get .030 over pistons with the same compression ratio? Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So what your saying is that you can not get .030 over pistons with the same compression ratio? MudYes, that is apparent from the ones I bought from Egge. Russel Martin at Centerville Auto sells nailhead pistons on ebay and has a contact phone where you can call and a least ask some questions. I also ordered pistons from Terrill Machine and they did not look like originals so I sent them back. I will try to post a picture of the difference between an Egge piston and a NORS piston from when these cars were contemporary.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 I will call the machine shop on Monday and ask them about it. I wonder what it would cost to sleeve it and use the stock pistons? Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Shown is a NORS piston on the left and the Egge piston on the right; both hanging on the same wrist pin with a straight edge on top. There is a 5/64 drill on top of the right piston. Sleeves are a possibility, but it is 8 places for something to go wrong. I guess the bores are not usable with just honing even using moly rings which will conform to taper and out of round? Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 12, 2012 Author Share Posted February 12, 2012 Here is an e-mail I just got back from Russell Martin. MudI can sell you 56 Pistons and steel shim head gaskets to get the most compression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Just from his eBay listings (and I have never dealt with him directly), he seems to know what he is talking about. This seems to add to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Here is an e-mail I just got back from Russell Martin. MudI can sell you 56 Pistons and steel shim head gaskets to get the most compression.Sounds like a plan. If you do use 56 piston, check clearances. I have some slightly used head gaskets if needed.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 Russell Martin just e-mailed me back and said he does not get his pistons from EGGE. He is going to look into it this week. Thanks for all your input. I will keep you posted. Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 John at Kanter e-mailed me back and said they have pistons for the dynaflow Century and they are 9.1:1 The standard shift cars have 8.5:1. Does that sound correct? Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I thought the different compression ratios of 322's with Dynaflow and standard shift was due to thickness of the head gasket. The 264's actually had different piston dome heights between Dynaflow and standard shift. Standard shift 322's used .045 thk headgaskets while Dynaflow 322's used .015 gaskets. Reason I remember this is I have been looking for some .045's to use with a supercharger. Edited February 14, 2012 by MrEarl (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 This gets more confusing as we dig deeper!:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 Mr. Earl, you are right about the gaskets in the 50-60-70 series engine. This is from The 1955 Buick Product School Manual. Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Mud9.0:1 is what the service manual says and that should give you 170# cranking compression. 9.0:1 is what Egge said their pistons were and I get only 120#, and of course they are not as tall as stock. It is a big hassle, but you could order sets from Egge, Kanter, Martin, compare to your stock piston and send back what you don't want. I did that with a set from Terrill which had a smaller surface area dome. It is just too much trouble and expense to change after installed and you don't need the aggravation of finding out that it is not performing up to snuff.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Mud9.0:1 is what the service manual says and that should give you 170# cranking compression. 9.0:1 is what Egge said their pistons were and I get only 120#, and of course they are not as tall as stock. It is a big hassle, but you could order sets from Egge, Kanter, Martin, compare to your stock piston and send back what you don't want. I did that with a set from Terrill which had a smaller surface area dome. It is just too much trouble and expense to change after installed and you don't need the aggravation of finding out that it is not performing up to snuff.WillieThanks for all your input. At least I have an idea of what is going on in the aftermarket world. Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 18, 2012 Author Share Posted February 18, 2012 .030 didn't clean it up at the top. It looks like it will be .040 over. Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budd Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Just from his eBay listings (and I have never dealt with him directly), he seems to know what he is talking about. This seems to add to that. I have dealt with Russell (his shop is local to me) and I will vouch for his knowledge of all things Nailhead. Stand up guy, and makes no bones about "doing it right" versus what other non-Nailhead shops may do, and will explain in depth the where and why of things. Mention freeze plugs to him and stand back for a 30 minute dissertation ...Budd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That is good to know. Thanks for the info Budd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I have dealt with Russell (his shop is local to me) and I will vouch for his knowledge of all things Nailhead. Stand up guy, and makes no bones about "doing it right" versus what other non-Nailhead shops may do, and will explain in depth the where and why of things. Mention freeze plugs to him and stand back for a 30 minute dissertation ...BuddI found out what you meant. When I called him, I didn’t get a chance to talk for about 10 minutes. I think we are on the same page about doing it right. He told me every variation of the nail head from 53 to 56. I found out I have an early 55. I gave him my piston casting numbers and he will get back to me. With out this forum I may have screwed up my engine. Thanks, guys! Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 He told me every variation of the nail head from 53 to 56.I hope you took notes...there will be questions to answer soon. With out this forum I may have screwed up my engine. Thanks, guys! Mud Don't worry, there are still plenty of ways to screw it up. Such as cam bearings: they can be put in wrong, especially the front. Also after installed the cam will not fit. Nobody does align honing like the service manual says, because they are all different sizes. Ask Russel Martin how to deal with this problem. I have had some reamed using an old camshaft and some that the cam journals were turned to fit....serviceable but not ideal.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 I had a chance to clean up some parts today and remembered the post on the valley cover. I took it apart tonight. What A Mess! I can't believe how bad this thing is. Thanks Willie for all the info. Mud 1955 Buick Century 322 C.I. engine Disassembly - YouTube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Yep...it was the very same comment that made me ask my engine builder to check the cover. He had the same comments. The mesh was replaced and all looks good...I haven't started the motor yet so all the pit falls of a Nailhead has me concerned.Thanks for the video...the info here is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob McDonald Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'd forgotten about those greasy old pot scrubbers in the valley cover venting. It was a long time ago that I worked on mine but I think Buick had redesigned the piece by '57. I don't remember having to drill out any spot welds to get at this mess. Either that, or I didn't tackle this problem and am just imagining that I did.These looong-term projects do have their special challenges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I was able to get the rest of the spot welds out of the valley cover breather. It was worse than I thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Did I mention I love my sand blast cabinet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 I finally finished the valley cover. I had trouble finding the mesh I needed. I ended up using the outer mesh of a humidifier filter and removing the paper portion of it. It’s not very pretty but very functional. (I also made a video of it if anyone is interested) Thanks to Willie for pioneering this repair. Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 MudThanks for the kind words... and as a token of my appreciation, I shamelessly linked the video on my web page.If I had a spot welder like yours I would have put more in mine also. I put in the minimum to lessen the chances of blowing holes in the cover.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) As testament to the fact that the factory didn't put ENOUGH tack wells on theirs, the junkyard 53 Roadmaster Will and I parted out last week was probably a victim of just that fact. Upon pulling the rocker covers and valley pan, I found that front short piece laying in the valley with dents around the edges from apparentyly getting caught between the valves and the sidewall or maybe even the lifters. I suspect it was making a pretty good racket while running. Edited March 5, 2012 by MrEarl (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Mud9.0:1 is what the service manual says and that should give you 170# cranking compression. 9.0:1 is what Egge said their pistons were and I get only 120#, and of course they are not as tall as stock. It is a big hassle, but you could order sets from Egge, Kanter, Martin, compare to your stock piston and send back what you don't want. I did that with a set from Terrill which had a smaller surface area dome. It is just too much trouble and expense to change after installed and you don't need the aggravation of finding out that it is not performing up to snuff.WillieI received the pistons today. I am not happy at all. The piston dome is totally different and there is no way these will provide 9-1 compression. Mud The pistons measure from left to right. Old: 2.195 New: 1.600Front To Rear Old: 3.550 New: 3.310Valve Relief Cut Old: Level with top of piston New: .155 Deep Edited April 9, 2012 by Mudbone (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I received the pistons today from Russell Martin. I am not happy at all. The piston dome is totally different and there is no way these will provide 9-1 compression. They are a joke.MudIs there any difference when you hang them both on the same wrist pin? Those look like the ones I ordered from Terrill Machine ( and sent back ). Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 It turns out the pistons are from Terrill Machine. I am sending them back. By my shops calculations we would be at about 8.4 - 1 ratio That includes the increase from the overbore of .060. To be continued……. Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 After the work I did on the valley cover and screen, I started thinking about other areas where crud could be hiding. (The Oil Pump Pickup Screen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I received a call from the machine shop today. They said it would take at least .030 oversize to clean up the block. (They will do a rough cut and call me) And they will have to go .010 under on the crank. He said whomever did the engine work last time cut the ridge too deep with the ridge reamer. (That is why I thought it was in pretty good shape as there was no ring ridge) Ca-ching $$$$$$ Mud When my engine was rebuilt the bore was set .030 over. Runs like a champ. Love your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 I had to paint something today just to make me feel like I’m making progress… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 That Buick engine color, where did you get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I love the props holding the items, been there, done that. Sometimes you just have to LOOK around the shop to find what will hold it off the table. Good job,Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudbone Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 That Buick engine color, where did you get it?I got if from Bill Hirsch http://www.hirschauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EE-QUARTI was a little concerned about the color when I first opened the can, but after spraying a test part it looks real good. The can says you can spray it without thinning, but it is way too thick. It says you can use any good enamel or lacquer thinner to reduce it. I chose xylol. I thinned it 5 –1 and it when on real smooth with my conventional touch up gun. (I used DP50LF epoxy primer for the base) Mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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