Roy Rogers Nellybelle Jeep Question

[Ron Green]

This was at the Hershey show on Saturday and I believe going for a 1st junior? Since this wasn't a factory prototype or factory authorized I would assume it would have the applicable deductions per the AACA judging guidelines?

I am glad it was there but just curious, not trying to start anything. Maybe next year Roy's Pontiac with all the doodads will show up?

[Shop Rat]

Without factory documentation to support it coming from the factory that way it should be judged according to the rules. At this point there isn't a class for vehicles that were used in TV or movies. Hmm, maybe that might not be such a bad idea....

[Ron Green]

At this point there isn't a class for vehicles that were used in TV or movies. Hmm, maybe that might not be such a bad idea....

Susan, Unfortunately many of the TV "star cars" have been modified and altered quite a bit such as the Monkey Mobile, Batmobile, Kit, etc. From my discussions with Pontiac's ad guru Jim Wagner, Pontiac was so upset with how the Monkey Mobile (GTO) turned out they tried their best to disassociate themselves with it.

Though it certainly would make for an interesting class it would definitely go against the AACA's basic principles.

[ex98thdrill]

Susan, Unfortunately many of the TV "star cars" have been modified and altered quite a bit such as the Monkey Mobile, Batmobile, Kit, etc. From my discussions with Pontiac's ad guru Jim Wagner, Pontiac was so upset with how the Monkey Mobile (GTO) turned out they tried their best to disassociate themselves with it.

Though it certainly would make for an interesting class it would definitely go against the AACA's basic principles.

I don't see where a television car class would be any different than a race car.

Probably the thing to do would be to have a television vehicle certification just like they do race cars and second generation vehicles. Nothing gets permitted onto the show field without having documentation that it was actually used in that show, and not a clone. You might find an awfull lot of bright orange '69 Dodge Chargers.

Personally I don't see it as a bad thing, so long as Mike Jones doesn't try to pass himself off as Uncle Jesse.:D

A television car class could be a good thing for AACA. With the 25 year rule, the Munster Mobile would be AACA eligible right along with Nellybelle.

[Shop Rat]

I don't see where a television car class would be any different than a race car.

Probably the thing to do would be to have a television vehicle certification just like they do race cars and second generation vehicles. Nothing gets permitted onto the show field without having documentation that it was actually used in that show, and not a clone. You might find an awfull lot of bright orange '69 Dodge Chargers.

Personally I don't see it as a bad thing, so long as Mike Jones doesn't try to pass himself off as Uncle Jesse.:D

A television car class could be a good thing for AACA. With the 25 year rule, the Munster Mobile would be AACA eligible right along with Nellybelle.

I want the 'Cuda that Don Johnson drove in Nash Bridges. :cool: I would say my first choice would be the 1935 Auburn Boat-tailed Speedster that Pierce Brosnan drove in Remington Steele but I understand that it was a reproduction and not an original car. Tool bad, I loved that car.

Now to get the class going.

[MCHinson]

Yes it looks like the judging system worked as it should have...

Class 26A

Second Junior

1946 Jeep..................................................................................................................Pam A. Weidel, Pennington, NJ

[ex98thdrill]

I want the 'Cuda that Don Johnson drove in Nash Bridges. :cool: I would say my first choice would be the 1935 Auburn Boat-tailed Speedster that Pierce Brosnan drove in Remington Steele but I understand that it was a reproduction and not an original car. Tool bad, I loved that car.

Now to get the class going.

I'd rather see some of the George Barris custom cars (Batmobile, Munster Mobile, Count Dragula, etc.)

[Ron Green]

Agree that a vehicle certification could make this class feasible. I do think it would make for an interesting class, one that would certainly attract a huge crowd. I wonder how many vehicles would make it to the show field since many are in a museum? Accessory judging should add points in this class: displaying a stuffed Bullet or Trigger = plus x points. Batmobile functioning flame thrower = plus x points. Kit telling the surrounding crowd to back off or it will vaporize them = plus x points.

It does appear that the system worked but unsure how it even took a second without a top, side curtains, incorrect exterior / interior color, etc? I am not a Jeep expert but maybe it is more correct then I think?

[Shop Rat]

Even if it was a "display only" class it would attract folks that might then appreicate the vehicles that meet the AACA standards as they are today.

[ex98thdrill]

Even if it was a "display only" class it would attract folks that might then appreicate the vehicles that meet the AACA standards as they are today.

All kidding aside, the hollywood car class might generate a lot of new interest and young blood into the hobby. The authenticity would come from the vehicle owner before it is allowed on the show field, and the judge's would be judging it for workmanship and condition. With that in mind, maybe Nellybelle could've won had that class existed.

It may never fly if the General Lee shows up and we all start calling Mike Jones "Uncle Jesse.":D:D:D If Mike steals a pair of Benny Bootle's bib overalls, it could happen, but he might not appreciate the Uncle Jesse jokes.

Just think of the cars that have been in television and in the movies that are neat, yet not eligible in accordance with AACA standards. Think of the cars from Batman, the Munsters, the Monkees, American Graffitti, Grease, Dukes of Hazzard, Starsky & Hutch, Knight Rider, etc.

[Belvedere]

A TV car class did cross my mind after looking at Nellybell. But what about all those clones like General Lee and Starsky and Hutch? It would really be tough to document.

To "open a can of worms", a few AACA Museum Features back, several 30's Ford custom roadsters were displayed by Mr. Meyers (I believe). Reportedly customized in the '50's by some well-known customizers of the day, I remember most being in original condition (much like HPOF). Mr Meyers displayed 2 Ford coupes from this same period in the Race Car Class this year at Hershey.

I thought what an interesting class this would make, documented custom vehicles that appeared in national custom car shows around the country. NO, I'M NOT SUGGESTING A STREETROD CLASS!! These documented customized vehicles are part of our motoring heritage, especially those done in the 1950's and early '60's. Documentation would need to be as strict as those in the Race Car class. And an era of customization need to be set (ex. Postwar to 1959). Class could be judged as per Race Cars, or certified as SGCV.

[keiser31]

I believe that all of the "General Lees" were marked here and there with a "WB" for Warner Brothers Studios. Things such as the wheels and other WB modifications were aptly marked. Maybe the other movie studios did that, too. If so, documentation of the vehicles might be a little bit easier.

[Guest Silverghost]

I cast my vote for a new AACA TV & Movie car class.

Folks just love to see these cars we all saw on TV and in the Movies.

Many of us made plasic model kits of these cars.

They deserve a class of their own...

As long as they are not a Clone or a "Tribute Car"

Re: Nellybelle jeep~

I believe Roy Rogers 's family liquidated the Roy Rogers Museum not long ago because of poor attendance !

Very Sad...

As a Kid I met Roy at at one of his fast food openings in Phila years ago.

He was Great with the audience !

He seemed to enjoy meeting the people as much as we enjoyed seeing him !

Good White Hat Guy Ideed !

Happy Trails Roy !

Edited October 15, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[ex98thdrill]

I cast my vote for a new AACA TV & Movie car class.

Folks just love to see these cars we all saw on TV and in the Movies.

Many of us made plasic model kits of these cars.

They deserve a class of their own...

As long as they are not a Clone or a "Tribute Car"

I would go one step further that the production of the movie/tv show would have taken place at least 25 years ago.

In the case of Nash Bridges, even though the Cuda that Don Johnson drove is AACA eligible, because the Nash Bridges show is not, then it couldn't be shown. The same could also be said about the '67 Mustang ("Eleanor") from the movie gone in 60 seconds. In the case of the Dukes of Hazzard, the car (General Lee) used in the show would be eligible, the car used in the movie would not.

With the 25 year rule, this would reduce the amount of "cloning" cars. and by the time the car would appear, all of the vehicles in the entire show/movie would be AACA eligible. If the vehicle was unrestored, the 35 year rule to be shown would apply.

THis would allow Nellybelle to be shown, and not be penalized for lack of originality. Although Nellybelle is not as it would've been from the factory, it is a part of automotive history and still deserves to be shown without being penalized. Without actually judging the vehicle myself, I wonder if Nellybelle pulled a second because of condition or because of originality. A TV/movie class would allow that vehicle to earn a First Junior so long as it appears in good condition.

I'm certain that the judging committee will examine this, but win, lose or draw, Nellybelle has made us all take a second look at things, and perhaps we've all learned something from it. I'm sure after everything has been examined that the Judging Committee will do what's right.

[mrspeedyt]

I would go one step further that the production of the movie/tv show would have taken place at least 25 years ago"

as a newcomer to this aspect of the hobby this idea sounds good.

[Ron Green]

As I mentioned above it sure would make for an interesting class and personally I like the 25 year rule as Pat stated. Many of these vehicles are in a museum or in private hands so it might be difficult to get them at an AACA event? Some were build to be static displays.

Old Nellybelle sure has started a great discussion. Seems so far everyone likes the idea of a TV vehicle class.

[Restorer32]

Was it the ACTUAL Nellybelle or someone's modern creation? Wern't there many General Lee's, some only partial cars used in filming various scenes? I just see such a class, while certainly interesting, ripe for forgeries and argument. For instance....where is THE car used in American Graffitti? I suspect you will find more than one owner who claims (and can document) that HIS car is the actual movie car. Great idea but virtually impossible to police in my opinion, especially with older movie or TV cars.

[ex98thdrill]

Was it the ACTUAL Nellybelle or someone's modern creation? Wern't there many General Lee's, some only partial cars used in filming various scenes? I just see such a class, while certainly interesting, ripe for forgeries and argument. For instance....where is THE car used in American Graffitti? I suspect you will find more than one owner who claims (and can document) that HIS car is the actual movie car. Great idea but virtually impossible to police in my opinion, especially with older movie or TV cars.

If the guy who brought Nellybelle bought it at the auction, I would imagine that the bill of sale from the auction would be enough proof that the Jeep was real. If Roy stuffed Trigger, I doubt that he junked Nellybelle.

As for the other shows, I'm sure that multiple cars were used, so as long as the owner submitted documentation prior to bringing it to a meet there should be no issues. The same argument that is said about TV cars could be said about race cars. What's to say that three of us don't go out and buy three '74 Dodge Chargers, paint them all Petty Blue and say that we all have one of Richard Petty's stock cars??

I think the race car class has worked very well in AACA, the demonstration on Friday is very well attended, and I think the TV vehicle class could be a great asset to AACA.

Ron is right that a lot of cars are in museums and private collections, but until you develop these classes, you might get these vehicle owners to bring them out. If you own a museum full of TV and Movie Cars, and you want to promote your museum, the best way to promote it is to bring a car out to a show.

To expand on this one step further, a Hollywood car exhibit might be a good thing for the AACA museum. Some people might not like old cars, but maybe if the Monkeymobile and Batmobile were there it might get more folks in the doors to the AACA Museum.

One of the best ways to promote AACA is to get people in the AACA Museum.

As what Ron has said, I think having Nellybelle at Hershey has triggered good discussion, and its' appearance on our show field can be very good for AACA.

IF Nellybelle could be properly classed, and the condition and workmanship are authentic, it could be very good for the owner and for AACA.

Edited October 15, 2010 by ex98thdrill (see edit history)

[Guest Silverghost]

Roy Rogers did in fact have old Nellybelle in his museum at it's entrance for decades.

Trigger was in fact stuffed and appeared on his hind leggs as the museum's centerpiece attracton !

Roy would often joke about Trigger being stuffed...

He would often tell museum visitors that Dale often threatened to have him stuffed when he passed-on and placed atop poor old Trigger.

Sadly...

The entire contents of Roy's great museum was auctioned off after it's unsuccessful move to Branson Mo a few years ago.

Seems far too few visited the museum or remembered Roy Rogers...

I guess all us cowboys & cowgirls are getting too old !

Happy Trails to you...

Until we meet again !

Edited October 16, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Guest Silverghost]

Just got this info off the ABC News website~

Christies Roy Rogers Museum Prices~

(That was indeed the REAL Nellybelle at Hershey this year) !

Nellybelle~ $ 116,500 sold to Pam Weidel a New Jersey horse trainer. Will be kept in a friend's Pa car museum.

Trigger (Roy's Stuffed horse) $266,000

Bullet (Roy's Stuffed Dog) $35,000

All auction prices listed above will have a 25% buyers premium fee ADDED to the above sale prices !

WOW~ These auction companys are out of control !

1000 of Roy & Dale's items

sold for a total of $ 2.89 Million !.

At the end of the Roy Rogers museum auction the entire crowd started to sing~

"Happy Trails "

[Ron Green]

This was indeed the real Nellybelle at Hershey as he had some paperwork regarding the auction displayed with it. I saw it driving in and thought it must be a replica so I had to check it out. It ran pretty good considering how long it had been setting.

Pat, it would make for an excellent promotion for the vehicle owners by getting them out, especially at an AACA venue which are typically well attended.

[Guest my3buicks]

I think a new class for such vehicles would be a good shot in the arm for the AACA. These "celebrity" vehicles could certainly attract new members, attract more public to the shows etc. The "Celebrity" vehicles would need to provide good documentation though to be eligible for such a class.

[Guest billybird]

Sure; why not? Lets do it. I'd like to see how many "genuine articles" come out of the wood work. LOL. Seriously though, maybe the class could be instituted on a trial basis. Perhaps two or three years or enough time to determine the effect of the class. I just would'nt want to see it foster an array of "forgeries".

[Restorer32]

Street rods that appeared in movies included? Just asking. And what constitutes a "movie"? Only cars that "starred" in movies or any car that had a supporting roll in a movie? Old movies or new movies employing old cars? TV cars? Again, same questions. Fun idea but not sure how it could be made to work. And who will decide on the authenticity of these vehicles? What about the Tuckers and partial/fibreglas Tuckers from the film? Body shop next door just "restored" what was represented to them as "the" original Barris BatMobile, it even had the Barris signature on it. It does sound like a wonderful idea for a museum display though.

[Restorer32]

And what about movie motorcycles? Do we really want a field full of '60's "choppers"? Again, just asking.

[Booreatta]

My 2 cents. I think that the idea of a movie/car builder class is a great idea. Lots of the 60s custom jobs are still around and so is their builders. Builders like Barris, Starbird, Cushenbery, Big Daddy Roth, Coddington and the list goes on. All of these guys made a contribution to the car culture as we know it today, while they don't fit in with the factory original stuff they should have a class of their own. Most of the builders are still alive and would be a great resource while they were still here to document.

Car clubs will have to be all inclusive in the future to continue to grow

Just a thought

Chuck Kerls

[Shop Rat]

.....Car clubs will have to be all inclusive in the future to continue to grow.Just a thought Chuck Kerls

Hopefully that will not be the case with the AACA. There are more than enough clubs for vehicles that do not meet the standards and mission set forth by the AACA. Nothing against them at all. But we will not need them to survive as a club. Regions/Chapters many times do hold open shows as it is a good way to make money for their local club.

I am the one that suggested the new class for movie/TV cars and I think that it could be dealt with the same as the race car class. They would have to pass an intensive screening process to be eligible to participate, if the class gets off the ground at some point. Many of us think it would be a good tool to bring folks to shows that might not otherwise come to one. And from there those same folks will hopefully wander the showfield, or museum, and see what our side of the hobby is all about and have to offer folks.

[Jay Wolf]

I remember years ago when the show was still at the Stadium AACA had a display class of vintage street rods and the Happy Days pick=up was displayed.

it was parked in front of the maintenance/shower building.

[Belvedere]

Alot has been said about the institution of a TV/movie car class, thanks to Nellybelle.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the possible interest a "Vintage Hot-rod" class might create. Again, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT STREET-RODS ON THE AACA SHOWFIELD!

During the early Post-war period and throughout the '50's, customers began to create early hot-rods, some going on to grace magazine covers and appear at national custom car shows across the country. How many have survived, we may not know. Race cars were not always "factory creations" and were created by local racers are part of our automobile history. Just the same, vintage hot-rods and customs created in those early Post-war years by locals who may have gone on to be renowned customizers, are also part of that heritage.

Entrance into this class would be scrutinized as in the Race Class with solid documentation. I can see as much interest in Vintage Hot-rod as Race cars.

I've enclosed a few that appeared in the AACA Museum Feature in the past.

[Belvedere]

Here's two more examples. One appeared at the AACA Museum, while the other appeared on the Hershey Showfield in 2008. It was a '36 Jensen Ford with custom bodywork done in the '30's I believe. It drew ALOT of attention.

What do you think? Maybe this idea deserves a new thread.

[Restorer32]

Any new additions to the AACA show field won't necessarily attract more non members unless the shows are advertised locally. We live less than 50 miles from Hershey but would not even know a show was being held if we wern't members. My uncle was program director for a local TV station and had an interest is antique cars so would often send a news crew to the show and see that the film was aired but he has long since retired. In my experience EVERYONE locally knows of Carlisle yet very few even know of the existence of "Hershey". Advertising works for McDonalds. I suspect it would work for the AACA as well.

[Belvedere]

I agree and disagree with spectators and local advertising. From my experience, lately spectators have a "streetrod mentality". If it doesn't have a chopped top, abundant chrome in the engine bay, and painted a bright color, they aren't interested. Locally, a popular weekend show for over 40 years has steadily declined in spectator attendence seemingly because registrations follow AACA guidlines. Streetrods are no longer welcome, although many modified cars "slip" in. Over the last 10 years, a Rod and Custom Jamboree, held in the same location 4 weeks later has grown by leaps and bounds in registrations and spectator attendance. Sadly, a 25+ year old original or restored vehicle isn't of interest to the average car show goer.

I looked at Nellybelle at Hershey, and read the info. Being 50+, I am familiar w/ Roy Rogers, but not Nellybelle. I wasn't sure how it fit into AACA class judging, being non-factory authentic, and was surprise to see it won an award. The idea that 1 or 2 25+ year ago Movie/TV cars on our showfield will draw younger spectators is questionable. How old do you have to be to remember Roy or Mannix?

I feel we as a club need to add and refine classes to add and retain our membership, while maintaining the AACA mission.

[Shop Rat]

I agree and disagree with spectators and local advertising. From my experience, lately spectators have a "streetrod mentality". If it doesn't have a chopped top, abundant chrome in the engine bay, and painted a bright color, they aren't interested.

The same holds true for many things these days. Just look at movies and TV. If it isn't on fire, being blown up, shot at or "weird" in some way kids and young adults don't want to go. Roller rinks, the staple of a safe place to go for kids in the fifties and sixties have pretty much died out.

..... How old do you have to be to remember Roy or Mannix?

There are lots of us still around.

I feel we as a club need to add and refine classes to add and retain our membership, while maintaining the AACA mission.

What classes would you add and how would you refine the ones that we have?

I honestly hope you don't want to add modified cars and street rods to the AACA. They have so many clubs already, we don't need them invading the last stronghold for the owners of orginial and restored 25+ year-old vehicles.

Bill and I have not seen it to be a plus to mix them and antique vehicles in our nearly thirty years of having antique vehicles. The exception is when a show/meet is run by the antique vehicle crowd as opposed to the street rod/modified crowd. We have not had good experiences in the past with open events run by street rod/modified clubs.

[Jay Wolf]

These are photos from Hershey 2001

[Restorer32]

Yea, but you notice they are spectator's cars, not in the show or flea market.

[Jay Wolf]

Yea, but you notice they are spectator's cars, not in the show or flea market.

No they were in the show, it a trial display class of custom cars that had to prove they were customized over 25 years ago.

[Restorer32]

Apparently the trial didn't go over all that well.

[Belvedere]

STREET RODS @ AACA, HECK NO!!!!!!!!

As to what classes to add or refine, I don't have any concrete answers. I think the Performance classes are a good start, but seem to be confusing to owner/members as to whether their car qualifies, and almost seems voluntary to enter.

SGCV is a good idea, but I don't know why this class is display only. A friend says the info one must provide to first have your car qualify is too intense just to be certified and no awards given. Unfortunately, it hasn't been well attended to this point.

If you go back a few entries, you will see photos submitted my me of Historical Hot Rods that appeared at the AACA Museum earlier. Note the info provided w/ each vehicle as to their history. Built in the early post-war period into the late '50's, they are equally as historical significant as race prepared vehicles of the same period. With certification and judging like Race Cars, I feel this would be a historically significant class. They are Historical Hot Rods, not modern mail-order street rods.

I remember last year at Hershey a Ford Roadster that at first glance figured to be a street rod. What?? But upon closer inspection, found it to be a historically significant hotrod that participated in a timed event. Very interesting.

STREET RODS? NEVER!

[Belvedere]

BTW, I try to avoid shows with street rods if I can.

[Guest Silverghost]

Streetrods started to slip-in a local show I attend a few years ago.

When I asked the show officials about this they replied "we don't want to turn anyone with an old car away !"

Now this year the streetrods dominate this show with 75% being fiberglass body cars .

The few antiques that still attend can be counted on one hand !

This is the end of me, and others like me, attending this show!

Pebble Beach started a Hotrod /Streetrod class a few years ago thank's to pressure by Bruce Meyer ...

I was very surprised and distressed by this !

TV & Movie cars should have their own class IF they can be properly documented as being authentic and not Clones & so-called tribute cars. This should be done before they are actually invited & registered.

Keep ALL hotrods & streetrods out !

There are literally hundreds of shows that they can attend !

Once you start letting streetrods/hotrods in the "real antiques" will be forced out !

Just my opinion~

But I suspect most here would agree .

Edited October 19, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)