Update on hauler Purchase

[Durant Mike]

Just had to chime in with my two cents worth. Last year had to go to Norfolk to pick up a new pick up truck for a client. Used my son's 1996 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 5.6 ltr diesel engine. Truck had 30,000 miles on it. Going up not towing got 24 miles per gallon on I-95, coming back pulling a U-haul open trailer which are quite heavy and a Ford pickup loaded on it got 17 miles per gallon. This was the first time I had really traveled in his diesel and I was impressed. You didn't even know the trailer and truck were behind you. Now diesel fuel is a bit more expensive up front but you still seem to get better bang for your buck when your towing. I'm not a Dodge fan either, but that Cummings engine is a good engine and supposedly gets the best fuel mileage for diesels out there. According to what I read the Fords get the worst and the Chevy/GMC Duramax is just below the Dodge. The downside with the Dodge is their transmissions tend to have a bit more problems where Chevy/GMC uses the Allison transmission which is bulletproof.

[Dynaflash8]

QUOTE: Even E-15 has a marked effect. Try to find and burn 100% gasoline in your tow vehicle, that way your engine will be producing max power and deliver the best MPG it possibly can. UNQUOTE I think the second commenter hit the nail on the head, it is E-10 here in Florida. It is almost impossible to get anything else due to the state government. For now it is still legal to sell gasoline, and one station in the whole county does that. I go there for all of my old cars to avoid vapor lock. As for my 6.0 Suburban, I am sure something is wrong with it, and I think it is that the new computer is causing it to run retarded. All signs point to running retarded. My GM contact is going to call me about that this morning.

[Guest BillP]

My $.02 worth.

I've had 3 Suburbans, an F250 4x4 460 gas, a F250 4x4 V10 gas, an F250 4x4 7.3 diesel, and now have a '08 Toyota Tundra 4x4 5.7 gas.

I'm a "hobby tow-er" and for years used an open trailer until the cars got too fancy to leave out overnight. For about the last 6 or 7 years I've used a 24' enclosed.

A few years ago I pulled the Packard up to Detroit in the enclosed trailer behind the diesel Ford. Everything went fine towing, but the roads in southern Michigan were horrendous; broken, rutted, frost-heaved. Never again.

The Toyota pulls fine; stable, smooth, plenty of power. I leave it in drive, turn on the tow/haul button and let the truck do the thinking up & down hills. It's alleged to have something like 380 or 400 lb. ft. of torque, I don't remember exactly, pulls great.

Thanks, Bill

[Restorer32]

We tow our 24 ft box trailer with one of our 2 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton Cummins diesels. Even with a 6000# plus car on board ('58 Cadillac Flower Car) we still get 14 mpg loaded, 17-21 without the trailer. For my money you can't beat a 3/4 ton with a Cummins. 270,000 miles on the '99 and still going strong and at 7000# the truck is heavy enough to safely stop that load.

[Dynaflash8]

Everybody tells a different story around these car lots. I've thought about going to Toyota, but haven't been able to bring myself to even look at a foreign made vehicle. On a tour we visited a Toyota factory in TN (I think it was Toyota) and I didn't like the way they treated their employees and then bragged about it either.

Dodge is looking more and more interesting, except they cost more than a Ford and I think a Chevy/GMC too. I looked at a gas 3/4 Dodge last night and drove it. Unlike Ford, the interior is blah like all of the other ones. Of course so is my Suburban. It's also longer than my Suburban which is a parking problem, maybe, at my house. That said, the Dodge salesman saying it turns much sharper than a Ford/Chev. I've got a right angle carport off of the driveway. With regard to your mileage on the diesel Cummings, that sounds great, except diesel costs more and the engine adds like $7,000 to the cost of the truck. I've got maybe 10 years left to tow (I'm 71) and I wonder if I could even break even over gas. And, diesel is harder to find along I-95, which is my primary route. If I sell my 1981 Buick Riviera (advertised) maybe it would bring enough to pay for just the diesel engine and tax. I don't know.

Thanks for all of the comments. This last one about the Cummings diesel was really valuable information. I do wonder if the new, Government-enforced version of the Cummings will do as well on fuel as your old 1999.

[Durant Mike]

Earl

When I made my trip to Norfolk we had no problem finding gas stations that sell Diesel. They may not be at every exit, but the major interchanges usually have them. Also have you considered going down to the 2500 Dodge. Check the towing ratings, you might not need the 3500 and your paying extra for that. I know my son's truck will pull out a tank and I wouldn't hesitate pulling an enclosed trailer with a car in it. The torque it puts out is fantastic. We even once pulled out a moving van that was stuck in the sand with it with no problem. If I were buying a new one today I would choose between the Dodge and the GMC.

[Restorer32]

The '99 Cummins with stick gets 14 towing, 17-21 empty. The 2004 with automatic gets about 13 towing and 16-19 empty. Diesels are great for towing and very reliable but VERY expensive to repair if something breaks. Both are 4 wheel drive.

[TG57Roadmaster]

I've been spending alot of time behind the wheel of our "work truck," and am really pleased with the rig. It's an '05 Chevy 3500 LT 6.6L Diesel Crew Cab Dually 2WD with the Allison 5-speed tranny, bought used in early '09 from a Chevy dealer in our Hornets Nest Region, Fred Caldwell. It had @ 30,000 miles then, and came equipped with leather, heated 10-way power seats, mirrors, PW, PDL, moonroof, Bose sound system, dual-zone A/C; basically all the power & comfort goodies. It's rated at 16.900lbs, easily handles the 24-foot box & 18-foot open trailers, and cost a little more than half the $48K sticker price.

It's a rock solid vehicle with plenty of turbo power that inspires confidence especially when towing the '56 Lincoln, and barely notices when smaller cars are in tow. Knowing we'd be spending many show seasons with it in all weather, it's white to cut down on summer heat (that matches the box trailer) and gets @ 14-16.5 MPG depending on conditions. The peace of mind the truck affords, with no noticeable wind buffeting, well, that came standard,

and now I wouldn't try towing with anything else...

The only downside is its considerable size, which didn't take long to get used to (and to plan for), but that one drawback is minor compared to its stability and ruggedness; truly a purpose-built vehicle.

Paraphrasing the Irish Spring commercials of yore,

It's a manly truck, yes,

but I like it, too!

TG

Edited July 16, 2010 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[Dynaflash8]

Well here's my final decision fellows. I settled on a 6.0 2010 Chevrolet 3/4 ton pickup as the best available for the money. I had lots of discounts coming and they offered me $27,000 for the 2007 3/4 tone 2-whl drive Suburban with 21,000 miles on it. I discovered the one in question was 1 1/2 feet longer than the Suburban. That would necessitate adding on to the lenghth of my carport. It had camper mirrors which would cause me to spend to replace them with power folding mirrors to get it in my carport, if I could make the 90-degree turn to get it into the carport. Finally, I drove the Suburban up there, 31 miles, without the trailer and got 18.5 mpg. Another friend did buy a pickup equipped exactly like the one I had staked out, and he got 18-19 on his first trip out, but is getting 12.8 mpg in city driving. My Suburban got 13.3 mpg last week in similar but perhaps not quite as city driving as he did. He got 10.2 mpg driving 65-68 mph going to Louisville and I got between 6.9 and 7.5 driving 70-70 mph going to Louisville. I decided the difference wasn't enough to pay the $12,000 it would take to get the new pickup on the road and then fight the driveway and carport. So, I drove the Suburban back home. Overall it got 17.2 mpg up and back. Moral of the story is if I put away $850 a year for gas it would take over a dozen years to break even and I'm 71 years old already. I can get 8.2 mpg with the trailer if I don't drive over 65 mph, so in the future we'll go by ourselves and drive slower. In addition, maybe it would make more sence to buy a new, shorter and lighter trailer.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[Guest billybird]

Congratulations! I hope you will be happy with the truck. I could sense by your posts in this thread you would do something soon even though you indicated at times you would not. Best of luck with your new purchase.

[Dynaflash8]

Read me again billybird. I didn't buy the truck. I'm going to stand pat, maybe buy a new trailer sometime next year.

[Guest billybird]

Sorry. I read the post wrong. My fault.

[mrspeedyt]

reading these posts makes my head hurt! (but i'll put in my 2 cents worth) it just costs so dang much to tow.... interesting to compare the rigs. my youngest has a ford with the 6.0 diesel...EXPENSIVE to repair! the 7.3 is better. dodge cummings is the best if you have the manual trans. gmc/chevy duramax is so so. my own towing experience has been my '73 1/2ton 4x4 suburban with 402 big block stick shift (10mpg), '04 nissan titan (11mpg), and '99 toy tacoma 4cyl automatic 2wd (15mpg) towing up to 7000# (car and open trailer). the sub and titan handled it best and the toy did it when in a pinch. if i were to tow frequently i probably buy a good cheap used BIG 6 wheel class 8 truck (and mount an old small travel trailer or camper behind the cab) register it as a rv and go with it. could do it under $10,000 with careful shopping. and still get 11-12 mpg. btw...good idea to keep the mph to 60 max. (car trailer tires can be unfaithful):eek:

Edited July 21, 2010 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[R W Burgess]

...good idea to keep the mph to 60 max. (car trailer tires can be unfaithful):eek:

Unfaithful? I love it. Hey speedy read the trailer tire threads and see how much company you have with that statement.

I've got one more long tow for the year and one spare tire left, so maybe I'll luck out coming back home on 4 tires, instead of three. :confused:

Wayne

[Durant Mike]

So what is it with trailer tires? Why do they blow so much, aren't they manufactured with the same quality as auto/truck tires? Are Radial better than bias type? I wouldn't think it would be the weight since they are rated for hauling?

[R W Burgess]

So what is it with trailer tires? Why do they blow so much, aren't they manufactured with the same quality as auto/truck tires? ......

"Only the Wizard Knows!"

Or that seems to be the case when we discussed this topic recently.

Check it out here.....

http://forums.aaca.org/f196/trailer-tires-again-282419.html

Wayne

[jrbartlett]

Trailer tires give lots of problems because the trailers and cargo often max out the weight capacity of the tires, people often leave their tires underinflated (which overheats them), aging tires may not be replaced on a timely basis (even if the tread is still good), many tires suffer from extreme sun exposure due to trailers being stored on open ground, and the tires can suffer unseen damage from road hazards and curb-strikes.

Note that all of these have a definite human factor involved. If you take care of trailer tires, size them correctly, check wear patterns and keep track of their age and mileage, you will be fine.

[mrspeedyt]

if it was just so easy.... i've done the above and still have had failures with most of the radial trailer tires. (the origional bias rag tires preformed much better)

[MCHinson]

I have been apprehensive about posting this as I don't want to jinx myself. In 2006, My trailer came with bias ply tires. After a short time, I realized that the trailer axles were in serious need of alignment, as the tires were wearing unevenly. I went to my friendly hometown tire shop and told them to replace the tires. I also had another local company that specializes in trailer alignment and repair, correct the axle issues.

I have never had a tire failure on this trailer. I have hauled that trailer, for thousands of miles, at speeds higher than I probably should have, for over 3 years.

When I got back from Louisville, I noticed that two of the tires are wearing unevenly a little bit. I just took the trailer back and had the axles realigned. They recommended replacing the bearings so I had them do that too. Now I am going to go back to my tire guy and have him replace the tires.

I have never told him what to put on anything. I just tell them to put on whatever they recommend. They have never steered me wrong. They have been in business since way before I was born and they only sell stuff that they have faith in. I have no idea where my tires were made, and I would have to go look to see what brand they are, but I know it has worked for me.

I have never even had a spare tire on my trailer, but after reading about all of the trials and tribulations everybody has had, I plan to buy a rim and take one of the better tires on the trailer now and have them mount it so I will have a spare with me, just in case.

Good old fashioned American Businessmen who sell dependable products do still exist, at least they still do where I live!

[mrspeedyt]

maybe an alignment of my trailer axles is necessary. one tire postion does wear faster than the other three. what is the cost of alignment on a two axle car trailer now days??

[Durant Mike]

Thanks Wayne

I wasn't aware that this had been covered. Went over there and read the posts. Seems its 50/50 some people like the radials, some like the bias tires. One thing that appears constant is a good quality tire made in the USA not China seems to last longer.

[MCHinson]

Here it cost me a total of $150. ($75 per axle)

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Good points, Matt. I never thought about the axle alignment.

What I do:

--Nitrogen instead of air. Nitrogen does not create moisture as does air and thus prevents possible rusting of the trailer rims from the inside. Also it is cooler to keep tire heat down. The other advantage is constant pressure of Nitrogen. Have pressure of 50 p.s.i. in tires and after 7 months of winter storage each tire was around 49 p.s.i. Nitrogen costs only $2.00 per tire at a local tire store.

--Rotation: I have this done every 6,000 miles if for any other reason than to give myself the benefit of the doubt. 21,000 miles on the trailer without any problems.

Regards,

Peter.

--

[Larry Schramm]

Peter,

Would like to put my position on nitrogen. The regular air that we breath is about 78% nitrogen, 18% Oxygen and the rest various gases. Regular air does not create moisture. The moisture content in regular atmospheric air is a variable of temperature, area of climate where water can be evaporated into the atmosphere, baromatic pressure, etc. If the person/business that is putting air in the tires has a good moisture separater/dryer on the line to fill your tires, you are getting almost the same thing coming out of a tank of nitrogen. IMO, the nitrogen story is upselling for more sales dollars. I have never used anything but compressed air on my tires and have not had any problems. Just my opinion and science.

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Peter,

Would like to put my position on nitrogen. The regular air that we breath is about 78% nitrogen, 18% Oxygen and the rest various gases. Regular air does not create moisture. The moisture content in regular atmospheric air is a variable of temperature, area of climate where water can be evaporated into the atmosphere, baromatic pressure, etc. If the person/business that is putting air in the tires has a good moisture separater/dryer on the line to fill your tires, you are getting almost the same thing coming out of a tank of nitrogen. IMO, the nitrogen story is upselling for more sales dollars. I have never used anything but compressed air on my tires and have not had any problems. Just my opinion and science.

Larry,

I am absolutely not a scientist however what I wrote works. Use nitrogen on my company car and tow vehicle with the same "very satisfied" results. The constant pressure of nitrogen for such a cheap price has definitely reduced having to hook up a compressor in bitter winter weather or going to the storage facility monthly with a compressor to cap off the trailer.

Another note is the tire dealer I have used for years will add nitrogen "if needed" without charge if the tires were purchased from them. Also includes "free" balancing and rotation even on the trailer.

What I posted is from very satisfied results over a long period of time. Too each his own.

Regards,

Peter.

[Guest macrylinda1]

Speaking of towing to Louisville, we trailered our '56 Chevy wagon on an open trailer with the '05 GMC pickup I'm sure you have seen. We have a box trailer too, but I wanted to save a little gas on the 600 mile trip. On the trip out there and back our rig averaged around 12 mpg, sometimes even 12.2. This trip was through the mountains on I64 into West Virginia, then on to Kentucky on I64 all the way. My past experience with the box trailer has been around 10 mpg, a big difference.

My driving technique is to use 3rd gear on the automatic and not let the tranny downshift to second on its own, which means I have to kick the cruise control out on every hill. Aggravating, but using the torque of the V-8 engine saves fuel. If the hill is steep and the road speed drops below 55 or less, I'll let the tranny shift into 2nd gear.

On the way out, I was a little concerned about Sandstone mountain when coming back east. They actually make truckers stop at the top of the mountain, then proceed. I slowed my rig down and put it into second gear. I came all the way down in second, having to hit the brakes occasionally to get the speed down. The V-8 works best if you let a little more rpm (around 3000-4000) help hold the load back with its compression. The brakes never got hot, a good thing since it was over 90 degrees that day.

Hope that answers some questions. I'll check back in tomorrow.

Wayne

Wayne, thanks. Your experience mirrored mine as we took the same route. I was surprised that traffic was so heavy going up 81 and in parts of West VA. My little 6 cylinder did a bit better (14.1) on mileage, but not by much. I use the same shifting technique too. Thanks again. Sorry we missed each other at the show. Next time for sure.

[unimogjohn]

All, I appreciated the discussion here as I was looking to upgrade to an enclosed trailer and truck. I have been using a 02 Chev Trailblazer with an open steel trailer. This has served me well, but am at the capacity limit on the truck. I have had no problem towing with the Trailblazer with the I6 engine, and I do get a bit over 14 mpg pulling it between 55 and 60 mph.

Based on the discussions here I decided to get a 03 Chev Suburban 2500 (3/4 ton) with the 6 liter engine. The truck is the LT version and has the towing option with a trans cooler, bigger radiator, etc. Hopefully I will pick it up in a week or so. It is in FL and I am in VA, so will fly down and drive her home. Now the hunt is on for an enclosed trailer. I think I can find that locally.

Thanks for all the help in these discussions.