Update on hauler Purchase

[STuTZ693]

I wanted to give some feed back on the purchase of our hauler and tow vehicle since all of the information we received from this forum was a great help in making a good selection.

We just returned from the Louisville show and experienced a great show and a safe tow to and from the show.

We purchased a 22 foot enclosed hauler with two 5K torsion axles, electric brakes, radial tires, 4 foot tongue, 6" of extra height, electric winch and tongue jack, D rings, lights, and side vents.

The tow vehicle is a 09 Ford F250 Super Duty 5.4 V8, crew cab, short bed, 2WD XLT.

The above combination with WD hitch and sway control work great towing the 3700 pound car from Columbus, Ohio to Louisville, KY.

The show was great with 679 cars entered. I believe that nearly a third of the cars were driven to the show. This was our first ever AACA event and the 1925 Stutz 693 Roadster won a First Junior Award.

Thanks for every one's comments and sharing of experiences.

Great club and great members.

[unimogjohn]

Dan, it was good to see your Stutz there. Great car! We had a great time at the show also.

I did the West Virginia mountains OK with our 2002 Chev Trailblazer I6 engine. We have an open trailer with our 23. So we are about the towing limit of the truck. So will probably going with what you have.

Question, what did you get for mileage?

[R W Burgess]

Speaking of towing to Louisville, we trailered our '56 Chevy wagon on an open trailer with the '05 GMC pickup I'm sure you have seen. We have a box trailer too, but I wanted to save a little gas on the 600 mile trip. On the trip out there and back our rig averaged around 12 mpg, sometimes even 12.2. This trip was through the mountains on I64 into West Virginia, then on to Kentucky on I64 all the way. My past experience with the box trailer has been around 10 mpg, a big difference.

My driving technique is to use 3rd gear on the automatic and not let the tranny downshift to second on its own, which means I have to kick the cruise control out on every hill. Aggravating, but using the torque of the V-8 engine saves fuel. If the hill is steep and the road speed drops below 55 or less, I'll let the tranny shift into 2nd gear.

On the way out, I was a little concerned about Sandstone mountain when coming back east. They actually make truckers stop at the top of the mountain, then proceed. I slowed my rig down and put it into second gear. I came all the way down in second, having to hit the brakes occasionally to get the speed down. The V-8 works best if you let a little more rpm (around 3000-4000) help hold the load back with its compression. The brakes never got hot, a good thing since it was over 90 degrees that day.

Hope that answers some questions. I'll check back in tomorrow.

Wayne

[unimogjohn]

Wayne, thanks. Your experience mirrored mine as we took the same route. I was surprised that traffic was so heavy going up 81 and in parts of West VA. My little 6 cylinder did a bit better (14.1) on mileage, but not by much. I use the same shifting technique too. Thanks again. Sorry we missed each other at the show. Next time for sure.

[Dynaflash8]

I hauled a 3600 pound car in my 24-foot box trailer from Florida to Louisville. My vehicle is a 2007 Chevrolet 3/4-ton 2500 Suburban with a 6.0 engine. We had two radial tire blowouts on Sunday on the trip home and bought two new radial 10-ply tires in Valdosta, GA. I have actually found that 10-ply is no better than 6 or 8 ply. None are any good.

Equally no good is the Chevrolet 6.0 engine, which now has 23,000 miles on it from new. I ran with two other guys and they ran highway speed at around 70 mph. My Suburban was running 3,000 RPM all the way. Going up I got 7.5 mpg, and coming back I got 6.9 mpg. Second lousy trip this year with this tow vehicle, but this one was worse than ever. After leaving the caravan around 100 miles from home, I slowed down to 65 mph and got up to 8.2 mpg. I've never gotten 10mpg with the trailer, even gong up I-95 to eastern Virginia.

Yesterday we looked at a new Ford F-150 with a 5.4 engine with a 3.55 rear, but I could not get the heavy duty tow equipment (Max Towing) unless I bought the Navigation System and Moonroof (in a package). So, I wouldn't buy it.

I hate this Suburban, but I don't know what to do. I'm not too much on Dodge, even though I like the 5.7 Hemi. I think it might be a gas hog too. Both of the other guys were pulling 1950 Oldsmobiles on an open trailer with Chevrolet's. One had a 6.0 3/4-ton pickup with a 4.10 rear and he was getting 12 mpg. The other had a 5.3 1/2-ton pickup and he was getting 14 mpg. Both pulled the hills as well as I did and they were running 2200 rpm at 70 mph. My Suburban has a 3.73 rear.

What is the best power to pull setup for engine and rear end? My trailer is between 3,000 and 3,500 pounds (Haulmark). I'd like to drop down to a 1/2 ton so I could use the truck as a second car. I can't afford to use this Suburban as a second car. On Ethanol it gets about 12 mpg around town. Ford advertises 20/14 with their 5.4, but then says only 14/10 using E85. Here in Florida we can't buy gasoline, only 10% Ethanol (well there is one gas station in the county that sells gasoline). Is 10% Ethanol considered to be E85?

[MCHinson]

Earl,

I don't know much about what is the best tow vehicle for you. My recently purchased Motorhome is on a 2004 Ford E450 Chassis. It has a V10 engine. It tows my Model A in a 20 foot box trailer like it is not even back there.... as long as I am on level ground. It does OK on the hills but it certainly obvious that the trailer is there when going up steep inclines.

Check out this link. It explains E85 in detail....

HowStuffWorks "E85 Ethanol Flex Fuel Overview"

[R W Burgess]

Matt, give us a fuel mileage report on your next towing trip, please? I, for one, do not understand how Earl's truck has a 3:73 gear, yet turns so much rpm in 3rd gear. I'm very confused about your truck, Earl???:confused:

One additional note on my pickup. Back in February, my oldest son drove it to Florida to get some furniture. The engine coded (check engine light) on the way down. Then he got a bad load of gas, smutted the back side of my truck up. After my getting the pickup back I noticed at times that the check engine light would still come on and go off on its own, plus at times the idle was very erratic. My local mechanic replaced a fuel sensor and run a cleaning product through the intake. I must say that I think this shop visit helped my truck immensely.

Wayne

[Guest Dr. Strangelove]

It puzzles me why so many of you haul expensive automobiles long distances up and down mountain ranges with those low torque, barely adequte gas engine drivetrains in your tow vehicles. Additionally, you are all expecting to arrive just in time for an event without incident. Perhaps ocassionally pulling a boat to and from the lake not more than 40 or 50 miles might be OK and allow for dual purpose use (commute/trailering) but long, several hundred mile trips with those gas engine drive trains is no fun and in the long run, expensive. I would buy a used diesel over a new gas truck any day of the week because it simply is the correct tool for the job. I'd buy that diesel truck just for its stout transmission! It took me a while to figure this out and I had to beat myself up along with a few gas drivetrains plus some major dents in my wallet to finally get it. Here is the 25 year track record folks: gas truck disabling failures in 14 years - 4, Diesel truck failures in 11 years - 0 (Zero, Zed, nada). You do the math.

BTW, double some of those fuel mieage numbers above with a diesel hauling a trailered auto and look for above 20 without.

[Larry Schramm]

Dyanflash,

Sorry to hear about you Suburban, but a couple of observations that I have from doing a lot of hauling both with an open and a closed box trailer with mostly a 1998 Astro van that now has 223,000 with two trips to Fla from Mich in the last 6 months. When ever I can, I try to use the open trailer for long hauling because it will get better fuel economy which many of the other posters have also experienced and noted. Driving the van only I get about 20mpg. With the open trailer nothing on it it drops to 16-18 depending on terrain & speed. With what is being hauled it will drop maybe 2-4 additional mpg. The enclosed trailer behind it, I might as well put a boat anchor (a big one) because it goes below 10 mpg. I am many times stretching the towing capability to the limit and I do not have any large cars that I tow.

Because the van is getting so many miles on it and it is only a 4.3 L V-6 I recently purchased a '07 Silverado crew cab with a 3.73 axle and a 5.3 V-8 and the heavy duty trailer package. I love this truck. I knew that when I purchased it it would not be a stump puller and fly up Pikes Peak towing a trailer, but with reasonable driving it would do everything I needed. I wanted this truck also for daily use. I just try to drive conservatively. It usually gets 10-15 mpg towing a trailer.

I agree with Dr. Strangelove that if you want tons of towing capability and towing performance a diesel is the only way to go, but with that you still get tradeoffs includig a large up front cost. I do not believe that there is a "perfect" verhicle that covers everything. If you are looking for the maximum towing, you might look at the new heavy duty diesel GM pickups that are coming out in Sept. I hear that they will have a towing capability of over 25,000 pounds and Ford has an equilivant truck.

Best of luck & here is a picture of my most recent boondoggle.

[Guest billybird]

I took my 2800 lb. car, 6800 lb. gooseneck trailer to the Louisville Meet. Towed it with my 2008 F450 pickup with 4.88 gears that you can't get now. This thing is a beast. 6.4 diesel, twin turbos, automatic trans. We went up I-77 with the cruise on 65 and it never kicked off. We did turn it off some as we feared the speed in some places. The truck is so good my wife towed all the way up and back! Fuel mileage averaged 9-9.5 for the trip.

[msmazcol]

You are comparing an apple to an orange. An enclosed trailer with always require more fuel to move down the road. Isn't the vehicle inside it worth the extra protection? I have a 2000 GMC Sierra with the same 6.0. I pull a large enclosed trailer with some heavy vehicles in it. The truck does well. I don't however think 70 is a good cruising speed for a loaded trailer.

Yes, the diesels are great, but if you really put the pencil to the paper I'm not so sure they put you that far ahead.

Tell me you have something on the ball every weekend OK but for a guy that hauls his car to a show a few times a summer?

Sounds like the Suburban just won't make you happy. Trade it in now and try a blue oval or a Dodge. Maybe they can make you smile.

Toyota?

[Dynaflash8]

QUOTE - Because the van is getting so many miles on it and it is only a 4.3 L V-6 I recently purchased a '07 Silverado crew cab with a 3.73 axle and a 5.3 V-8 and the heavy duty trailer package. I love this truck. I knew that when I purchased it it would not be a stump puller and fly up Pikes Peak towing a trailer, but with reasonable driving it would do everything I needed. I wanted this truck also for daily use. I just try to drive conservatively. It usually gets 10-15 mpg towing a trailer UNQUOTE

Coming back from Texas the computer went bad on the 2007 3/4 ton Suburban and I had to limp all the way back to Texas (with only one blowout on the trailer by the way). They put in a new computer (18,000 miles) at the Chevrolet dealership, and since then it's worse than it was before on fuel. I went down there today and asked them if they could have put in the wrong computer and the said, "oh no, impossible." It is a 6.0 with a 3.73 rear. Today I drove it around some and it got 12.9 mpg without the trailer. I am convinced there is something wrong with this junker.

To the man who said 70 mph is too fast with the trailer, I can only say that the old 99 GMC Suburban could easily do that and get 7.3-7.6 mpg. This thing got 6.9 mpg coming home from Louisville. The same man said he was sure I would be happier with a Dodge or a Ford. Well, guess what, to get a 1/2 ton pickup that is set up to pull is impossible here in Florida. The Dodge would need a 3.92 rear and nobody has one my wife would ride in, and the Ford King Ranch which I love is not available with the Max Towing Package without a Moon Roof and Navigation, neither of which I want or am willing to pay for. To say I dislike my Suburban is an understatement.

So, I guess I'll have to wait on the 2011 models. One thing, no more Chevrolet's for me. As for the Diesel, the man is right of course, but my wife refuses a Diesel and I don't like the idea of not being able to get fuel just anytime I want it on the highway. So, I'm between a rock and a hard place.

Oh, one more thing, my old convertible tops don't like an open trailer, and I don't like all of the dirt the tow vehicle throws up on a car in an open trailer if it rains. I've been there and done that too.

[Guest billybird]

Obtaining diesel fuel is not a problem. There was a transition period for about a year or so ago while the EPA Ultra Low Sulfer diesel law was being implemented that there was a little problem but not now. By law everyone who was going to sell highway use diesel had to conform by 2010.

[Marty Roth]

With deference to other points of view, my trailer is essentially identical to Msmazcol. I pull with both a 2002 Chevy Suburban 3/4 Ton 8.1 litre gas 2-wd, and with a 2000 Ford Excursion 7.3 turbo-diesel 4-wd.

There is minimal difference in fuel mileage, and performance is comparable: both are more than capable of dramatically exceeding speed limits as well as reasonable safety concerns.

My cars are worthy of being protected in an enclosed trailer, both from the weather, and from prying eyes (and hands) when we stop overnight. Yes, our 4,000 - 5,000 lb cars can be trailered open at 9.5-11 mpg depending upon speed, and the newer enclosed slope-wedge box gives us only 7.5-9.5 mpg. At this rate, a 2,500 mile trip would cost an extra $89.91 in fuel costs using my enclosed trailer, and give the added convenience of a "garage" in the event of dangerous storms or souvenier hunters.

My 1977 Suburban with a 350 engine gave 10 mpg pulling the '63 Impala on an open trailer.

My 1978 Suburban with a 454 engine gave 7 mpg pulling the '70 Caddy in a closed trailer.

My 1986 Suburban with a 454 engine gave 7 mpg pulling the big cars in a closed trailer.

My 2002 Suburban with 8.1 (502?) gives 8 mpg pulling the big cars in a closed trailer.

My 2000 Excursion 4-wd 7.3 turbodiesel gives 9 mpg pulling the big cars in a closed trailer.

The diesel gives 10-12% better mileage

Diesel fuel costs 10-20% more depending on which state

The Ford diesel holds 15 quarts of oil vs. 7 quarts in the Chevy

Oil filters for the Ford diesel cost 4 times the price of a Chevy

They both pull great.

Anybody want to buy my 2002 Ford Excursion 7.3 Turbodiesel 4-wheel drive ??

[Dynaflash8]

Marty, then you would agree that there is something wrong with this 6.0 2007 Chevrolet Suburban giving 6.9-7.5 mpg pulling a closed trailer? I used $481 round trip from Sebring, FL to Louisville and return. There must be something out there better than that. By the way, Judy and I enjoyed having dinner with you and Dale last week in Louisville.

[Guest DagoRed]

Pull up to the show field with one of those blinged out gas half tons - nobody looks up or cares much. Pull up to the same field with a Dodge Ram (or Ford) turbo-diesel, the same people will look up and gave respect. And thats that....

[Guest Corvette Bill]

I think you may be exspecting to much out of the Surburban I would think the Suburban weighs more than the pick up trucks pulling open trailers, with very little wind drag.

I own a 1993 Surburban with a 7.4 engine and 3.73 rear and I used $487.00 in gas to go to Louisville Ky. from Manchester Maryland a total of 1300 miles towing round trip. Was your trip from Fl. more miles? I would tend to think so.

I was towing a 24ft. enclosed trailer, with car in trailer my total trailer weight is 8360Lbs.

Bill

[Guest Dr. Strangelove]

I think we all know that pulling a trailer capable of hauling an automobile is full of strife, probably the most frequent unkown is the tires on the trailer. Pull a trailer and you will have tire issues - its just a matter of when.

With that out of the way, why not eliminate or minimize the next largest failure category - tow vehicle drive trains and buy up into a capable turbo diesel truck with drive components engineered for towing. To me, its the same choice I make when I buy power tools. I'm not a builder by trade, but I can and do work on decks, out buildings, etc. I can go to Harbor Freight and get a cut-off saw for $40.00, or I can go to Sears/Lowe's/HD and get a homeowners model - but I don't. I buy the high end Milwaukee/Makita/Skil/DeWalt that builders use. When I made that decision years ago, I stopped having power tools quit on me while I was in the midst of a project. When I switched from gas to diesel tow vehicles, I likewise stopped having issues with the drivetrain. It's not about mincing and crunching $$$, its about completeing the mission, on-time, as set forth, without problems.

Now if we can only get Milwaukee/Makita/Skil/DeWalt to make trailer tires....

Edited July 9, 2010 by Dr. Strangelove (see edit history)

[Ron Green]

Dyanflash,

Because the van is getting so many miles on it and it is only a 4.3 L V-6 I recently purchased a '07 Silverado crew cab with a 3.73 axle and a 5.3 V-8 and the heavy duty trailer package.

Larry: what is the approximate heaviest weight are you pulling with the 4.3 L V-6 engine?

I just bought a Chevy cargo express van with the 4.3 L V-6 engine for a daily driver. I am now thinking of putting a hitch on it however I am leery of the 4.3 being to small. There is a discrepancy in the vehicles spec's as far has maximum trailer weight. One section states 4,400 pounds and another states 6,100 pounds, so I am going to the dealer to hopefully clarify. We are on the road a lot towing a trailer and having the van will allow me to rest my main tow mule.

[Guest Corvette Bill]

As far as driveline reliability my 93 Suburban 3/4 ton has 118,000 miles on it and nothing in the drive line has been replaced (engine,transmission or rear end)

but I am a firm beliver in proper maintenance which includes transmission oil change every 13,000 miles as stated in owners manual under sever use.

This truck has logged 60,000 miles towing various trailers including a 39 ft. travel trailer. I think some people reliability issuses may come from lack of maintenance.

Bill

[Guest billybird]

Dynaflash8: I'm going to step up and recommend something. Hear me out. Based upon what you have indicated in previous posts I would suggest a 2008-2010 Ford F250 6.4 diesel. I know you said you did'nt want to spend the extra money to get the F150 like you wanted it. But with this truck you will get so much more for the extra you do spend. I guarantee the first time you pull with it you'll be hooked and see it was money well spent. Read my previous two posts also. I was frustrated as you are, I went through the same thing. Then I bit the bullet and bought a TRUCK; game over.

[dbirchmire]

I have had a few tow vehicles and found the 1 ton F350 Ford 4 door dual wheel truck to be the best I have every had. Comes with a V10 gas motor or a diesel version. You don't feel your trailer behind you. Very happy with mine. Is ten years old and going strong.

[Guest Dr. Strangelove]

I can't afford to use this Suburban as a second car. On Ethanol it gets about 12 mpg around town. Ford advertises 20/14 with their 5.4, but then says only 14/10 using E85. Here in Florida we can't buy gasoline, only 10% Ethanol (well there is one gas station in the county that sells gasoline). Is 10% Ethanol considered to be E85?

E-85 Ethanol is not for engines that pull trailers. People alot smarter than me can tell you about BTU difference between the two. Bottom line, your engine no longer makes the fuel mileage it did on straight gas AND your engine is not producing all the power it can on straight gas. Our friends in the energy business think we are all stupid when they index this products pump cost with oil barrel prices - it should be indexed at 85% the rate of the product that creates the non-fossil component in this blend. Some western states have legislated this, thus E-85 costs about a dollar less than straight gas. None of these shenanigan's, to my knowledge, exist when you buy diesel fuel. It puts out the BTU's/power your engine is supposed to. There is a one bonus to E-85, when you start your vehicle up in the garage it leaves the smell of a Martini...

To Corvette Bill, I agree mtce. is crucial to the success you have with any vehicle, particularly tow vehicles. In spite of following and many times exceeding the mfg's recommendations for severe use, I had drive train problems. I know of no vehicle maker that will pony up and put HD components on truck gas drivetrains, particularly the smaller engined variety. To do so would raise prices above competitors and upset the apple cart. If you have no problems with light duty vehicles with gas drivetrains, I would say you are more lucky than anything. Go look at the transmission on a gas half ton, the rear end too and the driveshaft. Check the oil, trans coolers (if they even have one) and observe the size of the radiator and cooling system in general. Then step over to a diesel powerd truck and look at the same components - see any difference?

My bottom line is prevent the preventable. Do I want to be by the side of the road, in harms way perhaps, or do I want to be unloading my trailer at my destination - on time.

[Larry Schramm]

As far as driveline reliability my 93 Suburban 3/4 ton has 118,000 miles on it and nothing in the drive line has been replaced (engine,transmission or rear end)

but I am a firm beliver in proper maintenance which includes transmission oil change every 13,000 miles as stated in owners manual under sever use.

This truck has logged 60,000 miles towing various trailers including a 39 ft. travel trailer. I think some people reliability issuses may come from lack of maintenance.

Bill

Corvette Bill,

I totally agree about the maintenance. I do all of the regular maintenance to the book or more. Especially the engine oil which I change in the 3-4.000 mile range. My Astro van has been a great vehicle.

[Guest Corvette Bill]

Dynaflash8,

I am a little confused according to map quest Sebring Fl. to Louisville Ky. is 919 miles one way so that would be 1838 round trip , so using 2.759 per gallon for a average price paid you would have used 175 gallons in 1838 miles so 1838 devidied by 175 gallons would be 10.5 miles per gallons, I would be verry happy with that.

Bill

[Dynaflash8]

No, Corvette Bill, gas wasn't nearly that expensive in GA, TN and KY. Only in Florida was it as much as 2.739. All of our other stops, roughly every 225 miles it was around $2.529, even as low as $2.499. I used $481 and change and also mapquest was wrong too. They quoted me 912 miles, but it was more like 938 miles. Now I didn't do the math. I was counting on the vehicle computer, which said 6.9 all the way back to the FL turnpike. Going up it was 7.5, but again I was running a lot slower for the first 130 miles to where we met our friends and about 100 miles after leaving them coming home. When I slowed down traveling alone, even with traffic lights it got up to 8.2, which I consider almost acceptable. When it was new, I got almost 10 going up to Virginia, and then only got 8.9 with an empty trailer coming back. So, it's not the weight, it's the wind. I still think there is something wrong with this Suburban since they put in the new computer, but I can't prove it and the Chevy dealer says not. On an upcoming trip to VA I'm thinking of driving the Suburban to see if it will match the 18 mpg it got on it's first trip up there, and I'm betting it will be more like 14. The old 1999 454 would get almost 16 without the trailer and 7.3-7.4 with it. This 2007 Suburban is a 6.0 with a 3.73 rear. It seems obvious to me that I should get more mileage with this truck than you get with a 454 with 118K on it, and it's not happening. I wish I'd kept the old truck.

[Guest Corvette Bill]

Dynaflash8,

If I use your numbers and do the math Gas@2.529 miles@938 each way x2 = 1876 $481 fuel cost ,481 divided by 2.529 =190.193 Gallons of gas 1876 divided by 190 = 9.87 miles per gallon.

I would agree with you that your computer is not calculating mpg corectlly, but according to above numbers you got 9.8 mpg I think most people would be happy with that mileage towing a 3600 pound car.

Bill

[R W Burgess]

On an upcoming trip to VA I'm thinking of driving the Suburban to see if it will match the 18 mpg it got on it's first trip up there, and I'm betting it will be more like 14. The old 1999 454 would get almost 16 without the trailer and 7.3-7.4 with it. This 2007 Suburban is a 6.0 with a 3.73 rear. It seems obvious to me that I should get more mileage with this truck than you get with a 454 with 118K on it, and it's not happening. I wish I'd kept the old truck.

Use your odometer on the Virginia trip Earl, and calculate it yourself with a calculator.

Wayne

[Larry Schramm]

Wayne,

Your are absolutely correct. Take the miles driven and divide by the gallons put in the tank on a fill-up. Do this for several tanks and you will get a good idea of the actual MPG.

One note that you must be cautious is the alcohol factor. I know from experience that if you keep long term records of fuel usage and mpg, you will be able to tell EXACTLY when you get a load of fuel heavy on ethanol. Your fuel economy can drop as much as 5 mpg and then jump right back up the next fill up. And I have the documentation to support that experience.

Also, different brands of gas will give different fuel economy values.

Just my experience of decades of keeping track of this stuff.

ps. Ron, good to talk to you today.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Marty Roth]

Earl,

I agree that your Suburban is not giving the fuel mileage that it should, especially since my 3/4 ton Suburban with the 8.1 engine makes 15-16 mpg without the trailer, and 8 to 9 mpg with the big Packard, Buick, or Cadillac inside (enclosed). You should be making better mileage, both with and without the trailer. I suggest that you complain to the Chevy Zone office, or check with Joe to see who else to talk with for some satisfaction.

We were delighted to have the Packard awarded its First Place Junior at its first showing.

Dale and I especially enjoyed having dinner with you and Judy, and look forward to visiting with you both again soon.

DagoRed,

Having both Turbo-Diesel 7.3 , and Gas 8.1 engines, I find them comparable as far as pulling power. I've towed the flatlands of Louisiana, up and down the Rockies, and into the winds of the plains.

My Suburban has 115,000 miles, all heavy towing (that iswhy we bought it new in November, 2001 as a 2002 model. WE have had absolutely NO DRIVELINE ISSUES.

My Excursion was bought used a year ago with 231,000 miles on it, and after replacing an alternator and both front hubs due to prior water damage, we had to replace the limited-slip components in the rear differential. Other than that, we had no driveline problems in the past 20,000 miles of heavy towing.

Having both, I do not find that the Diesel is any better than the gas if you get the RIGHT gas engine.

[Dynaflash8]

QUOTE: Dynaflash8: I'm going to step up and recommend something. Hear me out. Based upon what you have indicated in previous posts I would suggest a 2008-2010 Ford F250 6.4 diesel. UNQUOTE

Bill: Thanks for the information. One of my best friends, a bodyman, told me last night that I simply had to get a 3/4 ton. Even the salesguys have told me that. It's not the pulling ability, but the stability and stopping ability. All I can say is that Ford 1/2 ton pickup looks awfully big. Still, I was quick to remember that my 3/4 Suburban slid into an intersection on a wet road here coming home when I tried to stop for a caution light that changed at the last minute. The ABS brakes were jerking but the trailer still pushed me with it's brakes locked up. It was just barely drizzling but the road was wet. I went back to the local Ford dealer today and he had two 2010 3/4 ton trucks but they were hugely more money, because all of the trucks here are diesel with 4x4 which is almost $10,000 more. So, it looks like I'm stuck with this Suburban, because I just can't go that high.

Marty I asked the Chevrolet dealer about the new computer maybe changing my mpg and he said "ah, no, can't be". Maybe a Zone Rep is in order alright, but I think I need to bite the bullet and drive it to Virginia to establish some proof. With the trailer mileage they can say anything.

[Dynaflash8]

By the way, the 2011 Ford Diesel has a new deal, whereby every oil change you have to go into your Ford dealer and add a tank of some new alternate fuel stuff that is supposed to cut down on the black smoke. It's being required by 2012 by the Feds....don't do it and the truck stops. Talk about nuts. That's a built in windfall for Ford.

[R W Burgess]

........... and add a tank of some new alternate fuel stuff that is supposed to cut down on the black smoke. It's being required by 2012 by the Feds....don't do it and the truck stops. Talk about nuts. That's a built in windfall for Ford.

Earl, I did not know this had reached the pickup world already. Big trucks have already started that crap. The additive (Urea) is now available at all big truck stops. If you're running the big rig without it, the engine computer will "code", then cut the power, then eventually it will leave you on the side of the highway until you refill the reservoir. It has nothing to do with black smoke, that was taken care of years ago with computerized engines. This system is used to reduce pollutants. Of course now truck sales are in the tank. Smaller companies are rebuilding trucks they already own.

Wayne

[Jim Bollman]

Dr. Strangelove, I agree with you about diesels. I made the jump from an F150 to a used 2000 F250 2wd regular cab 8 foot box 7.3l Diesel 3 years ago. I don't think I will ever go back. Yep regular maintenance is a bit higher but having the power to pull either of my trailers with a slide in camper on the back is great. Hills I use to down shift from 5th to 3rd on Rt 15 in PA, I cruise over them in 6th overdrive now with a heavier load and never drop below the speed limit.

On trips: 20-23mpg empty, 18-20mpg with just camper, 16-18 with open trailer/camper, 15-16 with enclosed trailer/camper. Speeds are at the speed limit or 2000RPM which ever is lower. The torque curve is in it's sweet spot between 1600-2000rpm.

Added note 7/12: My numbers are for comparison. My trailers are a lot lighter than most of you pull since I usually pull Crosleys. I did get 16+mpg pulling my 1950 Ford F1 home on my son's dual axle open trailer last November but no camper. Also keeping the speed down a little makes a big difference.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Jim Bollman (see edit history)

[Guest billybird]

I believe the 7.3 diesels are the best for fuel mileage of any Ford diesels. Beginning with the 2008 models the diesel particulate filter and exhaust regenerations { burning soot out of the DPF } scalped fuel milage though. I hear the newest ones have vastly improved fuel mileage. However, I don't feel that my 2008 F450 that averages 9-10 MPG towing is all that bad for 4:88 gears.

[Dynaflash8]

Wayne tells me he is pulling a 30-foot trailer across the mountain at Charlottesville and down the hilly I-81 to Blacksburg with his 1500 Chevy gas pickup. Almost everybody, even the truck salesmen, have told me I need a 3/4 ton minimum (which my Suburban is). I'm going to be interested to see how Wayne does on that trip. Of course he is a professional, owning a small trucking company. He may do better than I could do. We'll see.

[Guest Dr. Strangelove]

Dynaflash8: Just to touch on one thing I did not see in this thread - you mentioned E-85, but I'm not sure if you used it on your trip or not. If you did, your mileage will be in the 'tank'. Even E-15 has a marked effect. Try to find and burn 100% gasoline in your tow vehicle, that way your engine will be producing max power and deliver the best MPG it possibly can. I have an '03 Yukon XL that is E-85 capable and has the same computer you talk about. Trying to do the right thing by the environment, I started using E-85. My fuel mileage dropped about 25 to 30%, verified by both the computer and the good old fashioned pencil/paper/math way. The math also pointed out that the 10 or 12 cents cheaper E-85 in no way compensated for 25 to 30% reduction in overall MPG. I am told that heavier vehicles, like my Yukon XL really bring this to the forefront. E-85 was in the tank for some towing and that really brought down the MPG. I'm back on 100% gas for the beast and my mileage is back to the pre-E-85 experiment. One advantage of E-85 is the high octane rating. Your engine should never ping as the engine computer dials in max advance - but that still does not compensate for the inefficiency of E-85.

As I mentioned before, the energy industry ties the pump price of E-85 to oil prices, not to the methanol product that comprises 85% of its content - which is simply wrong.

And last but not least: The energy companies dialed back the octane ratings of their gasoline, removed the lead from all gasoline products, then began the dilution of gasoline with the E-15 product that is widely sold today. What's next for the struggling car hobbiests from our friends in the energy business?

[Guest billybird]

Wayne tells me he is pulling a 30-foot trailer across the mountain at Charlottesville and down the hilly I-81 to Blacksburg with his 1500 Chevy gas pickup. Almost everybody, even the truck salesmen, have told me I need a 3/4 ton minimum (which my Suburban is). I'm going to be interested to see how Wayne does on that trip. Of course he is a professional, owning a small trucking company. He may do better than I could do. We'll see.

The 3/4 ton truck recommendations come from the fact that the larger the truck the more rigid the frame, suspension components, and most important; braking capability. We don't like to think about this, but in panic situation the larger truck will provide better control, more stability, and superior braking. We all know many people pull with 1/2 tons and I'm knocking that, I used to pull with one as well. When I stepped up the difference was like night and day. In this case of towing, bigger is better and also safer.

[Guest billybird]

Meant to say in the above post " I'm NOT knocking that". Thanks.

[Larry Schramm]

Just a clarification on E-85. E-85 contains 85% ethanol by volume and most other non E-85 "gas" has 10% ethanol which makes it E-10. With the push from Washington, it is tough to find 100% gas without any ethanol which is usually 10% ethanol.

And Dr. Strangelove is absolutely correct about the mileage hit you take with E-85. Even small increments over 10% can cause all kind of problems including poor performance, check engine light coming on for vehicles that are not designed to run over 10% ethanol, etc. I know some of the manufacturers have bulletins detailing the problems of the incorrect fuel.