date coded glass

[Shop Rat]

The question still remains unanswered. If the rules state "as it left the factory", and the cars are REQUIRED to have them to exit the factory, are or are not the certification etchs checked as to at least being there, by the judges?

I don't have strong feelings either way but it's a question that should have a known answer by anyone contemplating showing a car at an AACA show. Doesn't sound like rocket science to me. Just an official "nope we don't check that" or "yup we do" would suffice. I'm afraid some teams might check and deduct while others might not, and that would be plainly unacceptable.....................Bob

Bob, I posted this on page 2.

Have you tried contacting either Herb Oakes - V.P. Class Judging or Don Bohne - Chairman - Continuing Judges Education about this? You might want to ask them.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Have you contacted either of them for the official answer to your question?

Edited June 28, 2010 by Shop Rat
Correct a spelling error. (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

There also needs to be a date certain before which "gold cad" plating is unacceptable, similar to the rules re cad plated spark plugs and nickle/chrome.

[Ron Green]

For what its worth: from my unscientific survey amongst a few judges this appears to be the case. Definitely should have a clear cut ruling however if you are having new flat glass made there is no reason to not have these etched in (my opinion).

From the various makes I have seen they are readable from the interior on one side and from the exterior on the other side. All the widows and logos were etched in the same location regardless of side. I have some NOS GM flat glass in the shed I need to go look at. Surely there were a few older makes that were different (all readable from inside or outside).

[Bhigdog]

Bob, I posted this on page 2.

Have you tried contacting either Herb Oaks - V.P. Class Judging or Don Bohne - Chairman - Continuing Judges Education about this? You might want to ask them.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Have you contacted either of them for the official answer to your question?

My assumption, (always dangerous) is that folks a lot higher in the AACA organization than myself would, by now, be aware of this thread and the questions it raises. If I were in charge of anything in an organization I know I would keep my finger on the pulse of my responsibilities. Perhaps that's just me.

I also would have thought that by now some active judges would be asking the same questions and seeking guidance. I'm just a lowly member with a simple judging question...........Bob

[Restorer32]

Glass is judged by the Interior judge. Glass is worth 3 points maximum for each piece. At most a piece of glass with a missing or obviously incorrect logo might warrant a 1 point deduction.

[Bhigdog]

Glass is judged by the Interior judge. Glass is worth 3 points maximum for each piece. At most a piece of glass with a missing or obviously incorrect logo might warrant a 1 point deduction.

Counting the front and rear glass a car with wing windows left the factory with at least at least 8 certification etches. A car with split front and rears would have at least 10. I'd sure hate to give away 10 points to a team that counted.

No car without certs could get a GN first if the team happened to be led by a captain that followed the judging manual as written without clarification or a superceding notation vis-a-vis certs.

The judging sheet says "Glass". The rules say " As it was delivered".

If I were a judge I would have no choice but to ding a point per missing cert. and the rules say in no case may a completed score sheet be changed once submitted, so there can be no post show "correcting"

Again, I'm not lobbying for or against certs, but car owners really should know what the rules of the game are

I started this thread because I etched the glass in my 39 P.U. prior to taking it to Canandaigua since I knew I couldn't afford to give up even one point. I never bothered before since I had no intention of ever showing it. At the show I noticed a number of cars without cert etchs. and that got me wondering, so I asked a simple question here that should have a simple answer but that doesn't appear to be the case..................Bob

Edited June 28, 2010 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Does anyone know what info, if any, was legally required to be included in these logos and the effective date they were required by law, if they in fact were? What about foreign cars? Just curious. Personally I have never heard mention of checking these logos in any Judging School or CJE I have attended. What about replacement glass before "perfect" reproductions became available? It's certainly a can of worms needing clarification from those on high in my opinion.

[Shop Rat]

.....It's certainly a can of worms needing clarification from those on high in my opinion.

I sent an e-mail to Steve M. to see if he can round up some official help with this issue. It would be good to have it offically settled by someone in charge rather than individual opinions.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Ok, the answer is NO, we do not check for date codes!

PS...Thanks to Susan, I just found out about this thread. Sorry guys but there are not many of the "higher ups" that monitor the forums. I partially explained the reason awhile ago. Also sorry I did not get the answer to you faster but we are all working overtime and then some to get ready for the 75th. We have two trailer loads of material going down there let alone committee meetings, board meetings, etc.

I am going to state this as strongly as I can, if you need an immediate answer to something call me or another staff member at HQ and we will get on it. It is way too hard to keep up with this forum and do our day jobs.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Bingo! Thank you, Steve. Question asked, question answered. Now we can all start grousing about something else. 8-).............Bob

[Ron Green]

It would be a good idea to send this clarification to all the judges as some do deduct for not having these (logos not necessarily the correct date code).

[Shop Rat]

Ok, the answer is NO, we do not check for date codes! .....

Thank you Steve M. for coming to our aid.

It might be a good idea to also address this in the judging school, the Interior CJE class and even as blurb in The Judge to cover those that have already completed judging school and their CJE for this year.

[Bhigdog]

As always, communication is the key. Well, that was both enlightening and entertaining. Who says the forum has to be a snoozer?

So, what's the next kerfuffle?...............Bob

Edited June 28, 2010 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[junkyardjeff]

After looking through the judging threads I am glad I dont show my cars,it looks like alot of sleep is lost worrying about those small details. If I had only one old car them maybe I could pay attention to most of those small details but since I have a fleet I just cant do it on all of them,my hair would be gray or gone by now. When I replace the glass in my 55 sunliner I might go with date coded glass on it since my dad bought it new but the on the rest of the fleet no way.

[Ron Green]

Paying attention to the details is what makes the AACA and some of the marquee clubs different then most. That is why you often here comments at an AACA national like “I never saw so many beautiful cars at a show”.

Losing a detail here and there and a decade later the vehicle is missing many things that should be there, but will be accepted as that is how it was built. There is plenty of room in the hobby for all, restore you car for a local show or cruise in or go all out and make it exactly as it was built.

[Shop Rat]

If everyone that had a antique vehicle subscribed to the theory of not sweating the small stuff there wouldn't be any examples of how they came from the factory. There would only be cobbled together vehicles that only remotely, or not at all, resemble what they used to be in their original state.

The AACA's mission is dedicated to the preservation of automobiles, motorcycles, etc. for future generations. Our hair will turn white, or all out :eek: , anyway if we live long enough. But we will have saved art that moves.

[junkyardjeff]

I will send the cobbled up messes that come my way your way because my hair is thin enough and dont want to go gray before its supposed to,when I went to my last high school reunion I was suprised how many guys were balding and turned gray and that was 10 years ago. Now back to the topic,if I were to buy a glass set for my 55 sunliner can glass sit for a few years before installation as I want get it before the price goes up more but its going to be a few years before I tear it apart for paint. I never really paid attention to the date codes on the glass and will they have the same date or different dates.

[Bhigdog]

I will send the cobbled up messes that come my way your way because my hair is thin enough and dont want to go gray before its supposed to,when I went to my last high school reunion I was suprised how many guys were balding and turned gray and that was 10 years ago. Now back to the topic,if I were to buy a glass set for my 55 sunliner can glass sit for a few years before installation as I want get it before the price goes up more but its going to be a few years before I tear it apart for paint. I never really paid attention to the date codes on the glass and will they have the same date or different dates.

You tell the glass supplier your year and make and he applies the correct year code and logo. Not all glass shops can do this. they must be copyright licensed by the mfgr. Last time I looked it was about (sit down) $50 buck per etching.....Bob

[Ron Green]

The date codes are all but impossible to figure out what date it was made unless you have the glass maker’s cross-reference / decoding documentation. What is inscribed in most wasn’t an actual date but a code similar to a vin number (5 means made in Kansas, 242 means GTO, etc). What is easily seen on the glass is the etched logo such as E-Z-EYE, etc, etc.

[junkyardjeff]

If I would get date coded glass I will have them duplicate what is on each window if they can but if its 50 per window I will have to do some thinking on that since there are 7 windows and it will bring the cost up a bunch,since I will never get into serious competition at shows its probably not going to be worth spending more money. The money would be best spent elsewhere on the car and I will let you guys loose sleep and hair on that detail since I want to keep what hair I have left and I dont sleep too good that way it is now so I cant afford any less.

[Ron Green]

I will let you guys loose sleep and hair on that detail since I want to keep what hair I have left and I dont sleep too good that way it is now so I cant afford any less.

As many have stated before to each there own. Restore the car the way you want it.

Personally I would probably lose some hair and sleep if restoring a vehicle for show and knowingly and intentionally skipped important details. One of the first decisions made prior to a restoration is what you want to do with the car, show it at a national or marquee event(s), or restore it as a driver / tourer. There is no right or wrong as many have both types in their garage.

Good luck.

[junkyardjeff]

I lean towards the driver/tourer if you cant tell but it would be nice to put it on since the car has been in the family since new,I will reasearch the cost and go from there.

[Ovalrace25]

If a couple of cars are real close in your scoring.... Time to look closer to details like date codes. Since the glass codes are easy to see, that is where I go first to narrow down the top car... BUT if you are at a show for a specfic marquis... Well ya best have it correct or be blasted out of the park.

[Shop Rat]

If a couple of cars are real close in your scoring.... Time to look closer to details like date codes. .....

In our system that would not tip the scales as it has been answered here by Herb Oakes that this is not checked.

Better to check condition of existing items and re-do or replace them. And/or check to make sure that what is there is correct for the year, make and model in the event that any might be wrong. Additionally, if items/options have been added that are not in good condition, remove them until they can be re-done or replaced. There is nothing to be gained by adding every option that was available for the make, model and year vehicle. But points sure can disappear if they are not in good condition.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Shop Rat
Type-o correction. (see edit history)

[Ovalrace25]

Susan makes a good point.. AACA wants folks with old cars to come out and enjoy the old cars.. QUITE different than some other groups... I really do not like to explain when asked why I do not want to take a car to a Co******e or a Classic C***y event.

MUCH more fun to dust off the Willys Aero and drive out to an AACA event.

[Guest billybird]

I like both. I like the diversity of AACA and the challenge of a marque event. However, I prefer AACA National Meets over marque meets due to the variety of vehicles to see. I have also found the AACA atmosphere more friendly { just my personal feeling } .

[buick5563]

One thing that noticed at the recent Buick Nationals in Ames was a car with a new windshield with the makers name etched in it. THIS stuck out like a sore thumb to me. Seems like I would rather have no bug at all than a repro company's name on it.

[Bhigdog]

One thing that noticed at the recent Buick Nationals in Ames was a car with a new windshield with the makers name etched in it. THIS stuck out like a sore thumb to me. Seems like I would rather have no bug at all than a repro company's name on it.

The repro windshields I have in my Buicks and Olds had the makers logo and certs not etched but printed with ceramic ink. A few drops of muriatic (hydrochloric) acid and a razor blade removes it pretty well. If the light is just right and you know where to look it's "ghost" is still visable but it's almost gone. If a person was real retentive even the ghost can be polished out with cerium oxide...............Bob