When Did BCA Fees go to $50 per year?

[Guest my3buicks]

I figure the Bugle is worth my $50, above and beyond that is of little importance to me. A Buick forum/section would likely remain with or without a BCA on the AACA boards - I would guess a rather large number of the forum users are not even BCA members.

Edited December 28, 2009 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[bhclark]

I was at the board meeting in Colorado Springs and found the discussion lively and informative. I also noticed that there were few in attendance relative to the number of people at the meet.

While it is unfortunate that the facts dictate a rise in current membership dues, I do not believe that this is necessarily a permanent increase. Many here have mentioned an increase in membership will help. If each member recruited one member this year alone, our financial crisis would be eliminated! I will admit I have not done enough in the past, but have committed to keeping extra copies of the Bugle in each of my Buicks for the upcoming show season as well as making business cards to help recruit new members. I do believe the Bugle is the #1 recruiting tool we have as it is a top quality production. Pete has stacks and stacks of articles waiting to be printed and could probably produce a 100 page issue for years if money were no object!

I am a family man on a single income and with the exception of flint in '08 when my wife had back surgery the week of the National, I have been to every national since I became a BCA member. If I had known of the BCA in 1990 when I owned my first Buick, A '65 Wildcat, I would have been a member then and ever since I am sure. I budget throughout the year to ensure we can afford the trip and the kids enjoy it as much as I do, while the wife is happy anytime I take her anywhere!

As I ramble on.....I just wanted to point out that I do believe that the Board has done what it takes to keep our great Buick Club together and produce the #1 car collector magazine in existence!

On a separate note, I have asked the national office to supply me with information to assist me in getting the Cincinnati Chapter of the BCA back up and running again. That, along with being Treasurer of the '59 Division means that I am willing to put in the time necessary to help in any way I can.

I would support a few options:

1. On-line Bugle access. I think this is a great option as is an on-line version of the Roster for those that choose, however, keep in mind that at less than $2.50 per issue, the cost savings will be minimal once we add the additional costs to maintain such an endeavor. Also, intellectual property rights and privacy must be considered.

2. Additional Vendor advertising? While it is obviously not the greatest of times, we are emerging from the recession and I do believe that pursuing additional advertising might generate some income, however I think we have a nice balance right now and don't want the Bugle to end up looking like Hemmings.

3. On-line or Bugle generated voting on issues such as membership dues. I do understand that the small number of members who assembled for the BOD meeting was not an even representation of the overall membership. I think it should be possible to have a ballot published in an issue of the Bugle to explain the same concerns/suggestions/options and take a vote, but honestly, I don't think a very large percentage would even respond. I would be interested to see what % of members actually bother to vote for the board members.

Lastly, I would like to agree with Brian Laurance on all points....it's not the club or the cars that keep me coming back, it is the members themselves. When members I know and have come to appreciate don't make it to a show or national, I feel like I am missing something. Ask anyone who has come to expect MrEarl to be around.

Save a few bucks to renew your membership, recruit some new members, and suggest your own ideas to save our club!

[Bill Stoneberg]

In response to how many people vote for BOD members, for the past few years I have been on the Board the number of total vote cast have been less the 1,000. This from a club who has averaged about 9,000 members.

Woul;d we get more people to vote for other issues ? Good question.

1 member from each of the 8500 members active would bring in 425,000 more dollars assuming nobody let there membership drop. With another 8500 members the cost of the Bugle would be spread out amongst more people and lower the per copy cost. Yes, the printing is expensive but there is a large set up cost that doesn't change per the numbers of Bugles printed. So the incremental costs will be less.

[WWS]

$15.00 is NOT that big of a deal, come on guys.

We drive and restore Buicks. They are premium motor cars, if you wanted to go cheap, you would have stayed with a Chevy.

I cant see why an additional $1.25 a month can cause a hardship on anyone.

If you think back at all the Nationals and Regionals you attended and how much fun you had getting togeather with friends or another family member, isnt it worth it!

Mark

Edited December 29, 2009 by WWS (see edit history)

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

$15.00 is NOT that big of a deal, come on guys.

We drive and restore Buicks. They are premium motor cars, if you wanted to go cheap, you would have stayed with a Chevy.

I cant see why an additional $1.25 a month can cause a hardship on anyone.

If you think back at all the Nationals and Regionals you attended and how much fun you had getting togeather with friends or another family member, isnt it worth it!

Mark

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point here. You break it down to 15.00 a year or 1.25 a month or as a few of you have said its worth the $50 a year to me. Thats great ..... you're not the problem. The problem is selling this club in a tough economy, selling this club to people on a fixed income and last but not least, leaning just a little too hard on people who have already made the commitment and are standing by the club .......for lack of a better term , punishing the people who have stayed with the club to make up for the ones that have left or the ones who were never here. Talk about how little it actually is or what its worth to you personally all you want , no matter how you put it pricing more people out of the club IS NOT the answer to declining membership.

I do a lot of recruiting and while $50 may not sound like much to someone who can afford it or has been a long time member of the club and attended the meets and made the friends , it is a lot to someone who doesnt KNOW the BCA like you do. Hell you see it all the time on used car lots a used car for $9999.99 instead of just the actual 10K price of the car. Its done like that cause the dealer KNOWS he will draw more attention to a car with a 4 digit price tag as opposed to a 5 digit price tag. Yea it may only be $1.25 cents a month but trust me when I tell you its a hell of a lot easier to sell a $35.00 a year club than it is to sell a $50.00 a year club. Then you add 10 or 15 or even 20 dollars a year on top of that for a chapter membership and now its even tougher. And the tougher it is to sell the club the less chance you have of stemming the LOSS of membership. If you lose 35 members a year due to death , money crunch , job loss pick your poison and you only sign 15 members because of the 40 or so you talked to about the club, some thought it was too much , some thought their cars were maybe too new and some just werent joiners you still have at the end of the year a net loss of 20 members. So now you raise the rates on the remaining members and you start hearing I cant do this anymore from guys like Joe Taubitz who has belonged to this club since before I had my drivers license and has probably recruited more BCA members than any 5 of us combined. Now the question is "Is that 1.25 a month youve gained worth what youve lost ??????"

You dont save a sinking ship by adding more water gentleman. Its as simple as that.

Dan

[The Old Guy]

Well said Dan !!

I especially like the last statemant

[Lapham3]

Some club leadership have more financial means and may find it harder to fully consider financial issues that others have. Other leaders who don't necessarily have the $ do have the stronger commitment to the Buicks, so they are willing to absorb added costs more than other members. It's always a good idea to picture yourself in the 'shoes' of others-a large number may have a life where Buicks are a much smaller part of of their lives than the desicion makers-

[jscheib]

In response to Lapham3, there is a means for all active members to support the organization beyond the dues and I believe there has been some response. If you are a BCA Member and receive the Bugle, please note on Page 13 of the last issue, an application to be "Patron". This was created, I believe, in Colorado Springs, maybe earlier..

Also, the Buick Heritage Aliance (BHA) also seeks to support Buick History and Heritage, and their report is on Page 14 of the same issue.

So you see, their are those who pay the regular dues, plus extra. My thanks to those who support these additional efforts, Patron and BHA.

John

[Reatta Man]

Ultimately, the membership issue is going to come down to some realities that none of us can do anything about. They include the following:

1. Dwindling pool of potential members. Buick's market share is dwindling every year, and there are fewer and fewer well-cared-for older Buicks on the road every year. Hence, fewer potential members.

2. GM's diminishing of the Buick brand. Buicks used to stand for "Premium American Motorcars." The names Lesabre, Electra, Century and even Park Avenue had as much as a 50+ year heritage that stood for a person moving up in income and prestige. Now, Lacrosse and Lucerne, while nice cars in their own right, are just "another GM car." GM traded heritage and prestige in the hopes of gaining market share and a younger demographic, and got neither (in my opinion). The Buick brand has a cache in China, but GM never seemed to be able to find that sweet spot they were looking for to make Buick a "Lexus fighter." (Their words, not mine)

3. Value vs. cost of membership is a regional concept. I've notice from these discussions that the people who are really bothered by the membership cost increase seem to be from the New England/Northeast and upper Midwest (rust belt) areas, while those not bothered seem to be in parts of the country not so heavily affected by the recession. Also, it may be that people in the formerly industrialized areas may have actually seen their pension checks decrease due to the turmoil in the economy. For example, here in San Antonio, there are numerous job increases and new jobs coming into this area, while I know other parts of the country are still very much in a funk due to the poor economy. Could it be a localized perception of the glass half full vs. half empty that is affecting the member's opinion of the increased cost, based upon what they see or percieve is going on around them?

4. The 'joiner' vs. the 'me' generation. The boomers were born to a generation of parents that joined organizations so while we tend to not join as readily as our WWII parents, we do join more than the Gen X, Y and Me generations. Sociolgists and marketing people are seeing that these younger generations are used to everything being at their fingertips, whether it is delivered at the mall, on the iPhone or through the Internet, so why join a club and travel 500-1000 miles to an annual meeting when I just text or MySpace what I want to the world? For example, the Post Office is REALLY struggling with this; fewer and fewer people mail cards and letters these days.

So, there you have it. Our BOD is working against the clock and a stacked deck to bring us the value and results we want at a reasonable cost. And, I am still convinced they are doing a great job.

Joe

[pphil]

$15.00 is NOT that big of a deal, come on guys.

We drive and restore Buicks. They are premium motor cars, if you wanted to go cheap, you would have stayed with a Chevy.

I cant see why an additional $1.25 a month can cause a hardship on anyone.

If you think back at all the Nationals and Regionals you attended and how much fun you had getting togeather with friends or another family member, isnt it worth it!

Mark

I know $50.00 don't sound like much , but everyone has their limit to pay for something (anything)you have to think its worth it to justify the expense.

I see some will pay any amount and talk of all the fun they have at the Nationals or Regionals.....I did go to the 100th in flint and i really enjoyed seeing all the different cars....but i was just a spectator at a car show.....

i have not seen or heard of a Regional in my area (ever)..I did see an add for the music city chapter having a meet earlier this year so i emailed them to see where it was going to be so i could be a spectator but was told its a "driving club and they were not having a show just a meet"

On the other hand i go to bowling green (gsca) every year i did join their group because i wanted to race my wildcat but now you dont have to be a member to race so i didn't renew that membership(their cost is 40.00 a year)

I am a member of BPG and their "build sheet "(like the Bugle) only comes out 3-4 times a year but it covers items that i need(mainly the buick 455) on my car so i keep that membership.

the bottom line is $1.25 a month(really 4.167 a month 50 divided by 12) is not a hardship but you have to think its worth the cost before you can justify the cost and i cant do that here.........

just my 2 cents worth

scott

[Bhigdog]

I let my membership lapse when I was sent a renewal notice asking for $50. I also let my subscription to Classic car lapse. The reason was the same for both, it just wasn't worth the money. In the BCA's case pretty much the only benefit was the magazine, and $50 for a magazine is a bit over the top unless there is very usefull or valuable info in it. That isn't the case with the Bugle.

Classic Car is in pretty much the same boat, but there is a twist to this story. In today's mail I received a very simple message, no hype, no hard luck story, in fact no letter at all. All It contained was a subscription form at the much LOWERED price of $12 for a year. My check will be going out tomorrow.

Evidently Hemmings has figured out the best way to increase membership is to either increase value or lower the price. It's a lesson the BCA might want to take notice of.............Bob

[Guest 4buick7]

The current inflationary pressures as well as the declining membership have necessitated the rise in the BCA dues. The BCA Board is merely responding to an immediate situation which they cannot ignore. In my opinion they are meeting their responsibilities. They might have responded sooner and raised the dues more gradually, however hindsight is always 20/20.

Unfortunately, in the years ahead, I see these problems only continuing and perhaps even getting worse. The current policies coming out of Washington D.C. are almost guaranteed to cause inflationary pressures which we have not seen in almost 40 years. Reatta Man mentioned the problem of Buick having the reputation of an "old man's" car and this of course extends to our car hobby. Unfortunately, our car hobby is becoming an "old man's" or "old person's" (sorry ladies) hobby. I suspect that many car clubs may be experiencing the same problem as the BCA. The Baby Boomers currently make up a very large segment of the hobby. When they are no longer involved, is the next generation going to be as involved in the car hobby? Not only is the next generation not as involved in cars but there are simply not as many of them. It appears that the future demographics plus inflation does not look too promising for the car hobby unless the next generation becomes more involved. Hopefully, they will as they age and have more discretionary buying power.

The BCA dues increase to $50 does seem high. However as a BCA member for almost 40 years it seems to me it still represents a good value. The largest expense is the Bugle which is the lifeline to most members, particularly those who don't belong to a local chapter. The annual dues in 1972 were $6. The increase to $50 represents an increase of 8.33 times that amount. Although I believe that exceeds the general inflation since 1972, there is no comparison between the Bugle of 1972 and the Bugle we have today. The Bugle was 7" x 8 5/16", no color and consisted of 20 pages. It appeared to be put together each month strictly by amateurs sitting around some board member's kitchen table because it was! Today we have a truly professional publication

which is 8 1/2" x 11" and almost 50 pages in length. The cost is also affected by the increase in post office rates which far exceed the general inflation rates since that time.

Ultimately each member will have to decide what the real value of BCA membership means to them. What does $50 buy in today's hobby? You can't buy many car parts for $50 and many car show entries are $35 or $40. Hopefully, the vast majority of members will renew based on the true value of membership which can't always be measured strictly on dollars.

Sid Munger

BCA 2257

1947 Super Estate Wagon

[Thriller]

For those who claim the Bugle isn't worth it, would you mind telling us why? Or perhaps what would be of interest to you that isn't there? I don't understand it myself. My enjoyment of the Bugle does vary somewhat with the relevance of the material to my interests, but since I have a varied interest in Buicks, there is general appeal.

Sid - young folks are involved in the automotive hobby. Generally speaking though, they aren't into restoration of the old cars. They are customizing and are primarily using imports to do it. Perhaps that isn't unlike say the '50s when young men bought what they could and personalized it, but back then, they had the domestics to choose from.

[38Buick 80C]

To add to Thriller's point I am curious what would make the BCA worth $50 value to you. The Bugle has X value to you. What would make up the difference between $50 and X.

Some possible examples I could see would be

1. A discount to other industry publications (Hemmings or whatever)

2. A voucher for Y amount of free merchandise (I believe the BDE does something like this)

3. A one time use discount coupon to NAPA or maybe Bob's or CARS or YearOne, etc

4. It could be non-monetary as many have said access to friends and sources of information to repair you car.

5. It could be more technical articles in the Bugle or in reverse less technical and more of something else.

6. It could be online access to the Bugle

I'm curious so let's have a healthy discussion on that line what would make up the difference in your perceived value of the BCA and the $50 cost of the BCA. Perhaps some ideas can be implemented easily with minimal cost to the BCA and everyone wins. I look forward to the hearing the ideas presented.

Brian

[Guest windjamer]

:)With all due respect, IMHO, I think loss of membership is do largly to lack of activitys. BCA has a new member in Baltamore looking for a place to join. Check out the AACA Meets and tours section. It is my understanding BCA has only one national a year and most of the time thats at Flint. If more chapters had a meet you would gain more members. More member = more chapters = more funds. I know many if not most BCA members are also AACA members.These folks know that a few years ago AACA HQ. gave each chapter 2 or 3 free membership packets to give to a prospective new member that had never been a member of the AACA. This helped to recrute new members and so far the new members my local club recruted have remained and are dues paying new blood. No pun intended,but sometimes you have to give a little to get a little. $15. increase or $50. a year total. it brakes down to less than 14 cents a day.

[Guest my3buicks]

:)With all due respect, IMHO, I think loss of membership is do largly to lack of activitys. BCA has a new member in Baltamore looking for a place to join. Check out the AACA Meets and tours section. It is my understanding BCA has only one national a year and most of the time thats at Flint. If more chapters had a meet you would gain more members. More member = more chapters = more funds. I know many if not most BCA members are also AACA members.These folks know that a few years ago AACA HQ. gave each chapter 2 or 3 free membership packets to give to a prospective new member that had never been a member of the AACA. This helped to recruit new members and so far the new members my local club recruted have remained and are dues paying new blood. No pun intended,but sometimes you have to give a little to get a little. $15. increase or $50. a year total. it brakes down to less than 14 cents a day.

The gentleman that is looking for a BCA chapter to join is not looking very hard, if you do a simple search on the web of " Buick club in Maryland" there is a site that lists Buick clubs in Maryland right at the top - it also has the BOOM Chapter of the BCA listed first on that list.

There are 70 plus chapters spread across the country, 7 or 8 divisions, and 9 regions spread across the country - it is not possible for a single marque club to have as many chapters etc as a multi make club like the AACA.

It also only takes 10 people to start a BCA chapter (although there are loopholes and snares there) but the point is, if you have a desire for a chapter, it's pretty easy to start one usually.

Most chapters of the BCA do host a small local show every year, the same with the Regions, they are more like a mini national, and many of the divisions also have meets. so if you add them all up, that could be close to 90 or 100 Buick shows across the country.

There are also other Buick Clubs which without question bite heavily into the BCA membership base - I think this is more of a problem with the BCA membership dwindling than has been given credit for or maybe even considered. These clubs cater more toward the performance side of the Buick marque, GS's, GSX's, GN's, and GNX's and racing and perforamce in general - but let's not fool ourselves that is a huge crowd of people. Many of the people in these groups have a disdain for the BCA because it has in many ways shunned their passion over the years and made it hard for them to fit in.

Any membership to any club is what you make of it, some sit back and enjoy the ride, some do the driving, some are back seat drivers, and some just don't want to go along for the ride. As long as you are doing it in a Buick though, it's all good.

Edited December 31, 2009 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

For those who claim the Bugle isn't worth it, would you mind telling us why?

I can only offer my opinion of the mag, which of course won't be everybody's. There is a certain sameness to the mag. Pretty pictures of Buicks, an article about someone's family Buick, pix of people (whom I don't know) on tour, a letter from the pres. that says the same thing as every former letter from every pres., rows of Buicks at a car show, etc etc etc.

That would be fine if the cost was $15/20 a year, but $50, no way.

Since I'm not an experianced publisher I can't say what the best fix would be.

Personally, I would be more interested in reading somewhat technical articles, historical pieces, old manufacturing techniques and how it used to be done.

If the present leadership thinks the club should be more of a general Buick owners and drivers club I wish them luck.

As far as pricing goes I noted a news article yesterday that the music concert tour buisness enjoyed it's best year ever, up 40%, even in the lousy economic climate. It also noted that that the average ticket price was much reduced from previous years. Cause and effect, ya think????????

Raising the dues without raising the value is just a prescription for a slow death. Who EVER heard of marketing plan that said "our product isn't selling well lets raise the price". Raising membership by some kind of "sign up a new member" plan is grasping at straws. The first things the "new" member target will ask is what's in it for me and what does it cost. Good luck with that.

If the current leadership hopes to grow the club they better seek ways to add value, both in dollars and benefits, to the membership. Adding more pages and color to an already overpriced mag isn't going to cut it.

Well, I've got to go now and send my check off to Hemmings who just cut their price 22%..........Bob

[Guest my3buicks]

I can only offer my opinion of the mag, which of course won't be everybody's. There is a certain sameness to the mag. Pretty pictures of Buicks, an article about someone's family Buick, pix of people (whom I don't know) on tour, a letter from the pres. that says the same thing as every former letter from every pres., rows of Buicks at a car show, etc etc etc.

That would be fine if the cost was $15/20 a year, but $50, no way.

Since I'm not an experianced publisher I can't say what the best fix would be.

Personally, I would be more interested in reading somewhat technical articles, historical pieces, old manufacturing techniques and how it used to be done.

If the present leadership thinks the club should be more of a general Buick owners and drivers club I wish them luck.

As far as pricing goes I noted a news article yesterday that the music concert tour buisness enjoyed it's best year ever, up 40%, even in the lousy economic climate. It also noted that that the average ticket price was much reduced from previous years. Cause and effect, ya think????????

Raising the dues without raising the value is just a prescription for a slow death. Who EVER heard of marketing plan that said "our product isn't selling well lets raise the price". Raising membership by some kind of "sign up a new member" plan is grasping at straws. The first things the "new" member target will ask is what's in it for me and what does it cost. Good luck with that.

If the current leadership hopes to grow the club they better seek ways to add value, both in dollars and benefits, to the membership. Adding more pages and color to an already overpriced mag isn't going to cut it.

Well, I've got to go now and send my check off to Hemmings who just cut their price 22%..........Bob

Wow Bob, are you still reading the Old Bugles and not the new ones? Sure there are articles about someone else's Buick's, pictures of Buick's in a row, etc, but there has been an effort to thoroughly go into details on all different makes and years. Oh, don't forget the classified section also. Each issue features a focus on an individual year, model, size, nameplate, etc - these article are chalked full of great detailed information and I for one have learned a lot from reading them in full. Pete usually solicits help for these articles from the people that know them best to get the best detail and coverage. Maybe READ your Bugle and just don't look at the pictures.

[MrEarl]

Well, I've got to go now and send my check off to Hemmings who just cut their price 22%..........Bob

DANG, so that's what that envelope I got in the mail from Hemmings yesterday was.:eek: Let's see, did I take the trash out this morning like I'm suppose to....

Ya know Bob, I see your point in some of your assesment of the Bugle but man, you gotta realize that it, just like the BCA as a whole, is what the members make of it. Which issue(s) was the restoration of your beautiful 55 and 57 convertibles in, I must have missed them. Trade magazines pay big bucks, several thousand dollars, for stories and technical articles. Pete writes most ALL of them himself and he depends on us to submit the stories and articles. I commend all the chapter presidents and other member for their time and diligence in reporting their shows and meets. I love seeing these PEOPLE and THEIR cars and them having fun.

I agree with you though, I too would like to see more techical relevent articles such as the great one in the December issue about replacing Dynaflow seals. I miss "Pete's little corner" he used to use to announce upcoming articles and make requests for new material. I'd like to see that and the little section "What's happeing over at the Forum" take turns every other month or so. Maybe another thread dedicated to thoughts on the Bugle would be helpful.

But OK Bob, just for you, your cost for the Bugle is reduced to $20 a year. The other $30, well thats your required contribution for being a member of this great organization and getting to associate with the great people in it. And also a part of it goes towards helping "Save the BCA". I mean folks contribute thousands to help save the polar bear from GW so certainly saving this great association is worth $30, no?

Edited December 31, 2009 by MrEarl
continue giving my friend Bob a hard time (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

There you go Lamar - you hit on something that makes Pete's job impossible and unable to please some of the people all the time or all the people some of the time.

You said you would like to see technical articles again, such as the dynaflow one in the December issue - to me that was a waist of space, it would have been much better used showing how to replace the convertible top on a 70's scissor top.

Get my point?

No matter what Pete puts in each issue, it is not going to please someone or hit someones area of passion.

[dship]

Brian,

I'd like to see the BCA offer a discount to various auto magazines and see the Bugle offered online. I don't know what added cost these might have, but its food for thought.

My experience on becoming a BCA member:

I joined the ROA in 2007 and went to my first national that year in Asheville, NC. While there, no less than 5 ROA members who are also BCA members approached me about joining the BCA....literally gave me a Bugle and an application on the spot. I was so impressed with their enthusiasm that I joined when I returned home. I've yet to be disappointed with the club and/or the Minuteman chapter....worth the BCA $50 and the MMC $20, IMO.

[MrEarl]

I get your point Keith, but I think Tech articles could be worked around years of interest just like the articles on different makes and years etc.

It really doesn't matter though, if members (me for one) don't submit them they can't get published. Possibly a free one year membership for Tech articles of a certain number of words and photos.

Let's face it too, the time of hard copy magazines isn't at it greatest time these days of computers.

[Thriller]

Here's the thing though...Dynaflows came into production with the '48 model year and lasted to the early '60s...close to 15 model years. The straight 8 was over 20 years. Nailhead existed for 14 model years. While there were variations through the years, technical articles on these do hit the mark of many folks. Some folks would love it if the Bugle only ever mentioned Reattas, brass Buicks, Rivieras, etc., but you would lose more interest than you would generate for these smaller groups within BCA membership.

The only way to hit everyone's interests is to know what those interests are so as to keep them interested. In other words, we'd need to use the roster to factor in what members have to be able to hopefully engage them. Interesting thought though.

Perhaps an incentive program may be in order. There is a space on the application form for a sponsoring member. Put your name and BCA number on, make copies, and put them in the hands of Buick owners and lovers. Now, it would add complexity, but perhaps you get $5 off renewal for every membership you sign up. If you sign up 10 members a year, your basic membership in the USA is free. It helps sustain the club, and gives an incentive to folks to sign up new members. I don't know if $5 is the right amount, that would require some looking at the numbers, but it couldn't hurt. So everyone who thinks Hemmings Classic Car is a better value could potentially get their Bugle for less, even if they discount any other association with the club.

That is another thing. While the Bugle is is the primary benefit of membership, it may not be the only one. The ability to take part in events, local chapters, National Meets, etc. may not be for everyone, but they are benefits nonetheless.

On a related piece, I know I've mentioned it before, but I'm concerned about the non-member pricing for National Meet participation. I understand it makes sense to have it, but is $20 enough? If they join, it is a bargain, but how many folks would this mean, and how many of them would join? Perhaps a fee of $90, which would include a year of BCA membership as well as National Meet registration, would go further. I don't have the answer.

Perhaps another incentive for new members could be something like a basic registration for a National Meet, or just a coupon for half price or something like that. So the club gets the membership, the individual gets something they could use (so long as there is no expiry so they could wait until the National gets closer to them if need be), and it wouldn't be a huge negative drain on the club's finances.

I'm not sure if it is good or bad when my brain starts moving along....

[Guest WEB 38]

This has been my first year as a member of BOA I know first hand what it is to run a car club, I am the president and have been for the past 10 years of Hoosier Pontiac Oakland Club, The Indiana chapter of POCI ( pontiac oakland club international) Our dues for POCI are $35.00 per year which includes Smoke Signals which is the equivalent of the Bugle I am also a retired printer (42 years) So I know what it cost to print a mag. Looking at the bugle corners can be cut there and other sacrifices can me made without pileing the cost on the members. Most are also retired and on s.s. with no cort of living increase. remember we have the cost of our cars upkeep parts license ins. etc which has to come first before paying dues to a club.In my estimation raising dues is the quickest way to lose members and drive away the younger ones that we are trying to recruit to keep these clubs in existence. I WILL NOT BE RENEWING BILL BELK PRES. HPOC

[Rawja]

The Bugle (nice as it is) has a value approaching zero for me. I do a quick thumb-through and if nothing jumps out at me I toss it.

This is the 21st century; there is no reason for there to be a snail-mailed hard copy of the Bugle in this day and age. Put it up as a PDF file (and include the reams and reams of additional material you have to edit out due to printing cost limitations) and be done with it. Scan all the back issues and members in good standing can peruse them at will.

For the geriatric set or those who are unwilling to use a computer you can run off hard copy on a color laser printer for a modest fee.

See how easy this is??

I happily pay the 50 bucks to support the club and by extension these forums. I don't generally go to shows, think 400-point judging is fetishistic, and as I previously stated I usually 'file the Bugle under b1n" within minutes of it's arrival. The membership fee for me is not a significant amount of money for the value these forums provide to help me keep my cars rolling; that it's entirely optional to pay doesn't make me less inclined to support the organization that has provided me invaluable support in return.

And one final thing: lest you think I'm some young whippersnapper, I'm not. I'm 41 years old at the moment and I'm hardly unique for my age group. I've gone all-electronic and paperless for everything in my life because it is the only thing that makes sense given the technology literally at my fingertips. Those younger than myself are even less inclined to put such a large portion of their membership fees into what is a dinosaur of little value.

Think about it.

[Guest Dans 77 Limited]

You said you would like to see technical articles again, such as the dynaflow one in the December issue - to me that was a waist of space, it would have been much better used showing how to replace the convertible top on a 70's scissor top.

Keith if you order your new top from Hydro-E-lectric they give you a pretty usueful instruction sheet on how to install a scissor top.

A few things Ive learned from my GrandVille.

I know you Centurion is in real good shape, but if you are replacing the top,I have learned the following in a very painful and expensive way. These may or may not apply to you but check to make sure .

Get the glass window top. The plastic window top just doesnt work or fit right.

Check both the front and second bows on the top frame as they are prone to rust.

Make sure your top comes with new side cables. If it doesnt ..... order them.

Make sure the tack strip in your trunk isnt damaged (damage and rust are supposedly very common on these)

Dan

[ol' yeller]

Great points on both sides of the issue. Here's how I read it. If the BCA (and chapters) are going to survive and florish then we all need to be out recruiting new members to replace the older ones who founded and supported this organization over the years when they go to the big Buick boneyard in the sky. If we don't, then we either have to be content with $50 annual dues and decreasing services which will only increase on both counts until the organization eventually crumbles.

The dilemma is that there just aren't that many Buick appreciators out there that are not already members. The ones that aren't members have already decided from their own reasons not to join. Some look at it as money that is taken away from what the can spend on their car. Some don't see the value. Some just plain can't afford dues and a car. Some of us have the money and are joiners and participators. Some live too far from a local to join in the festivities. Some have other things that are also important to them to spend their money on. Some view our membership as too old. Some view our membership as too young and focussed on modified Buicks. As an ex Chapter director I know how hard it is to create commonality around very diverse interests. I hope we figure this out.

When I discover someone who isn't a member, I tell them about how great my chapter is, what we do on a monthly basis and what they could expect as a new member. I then invite them to a chapter meeting. Generally when they discover the dues are $15 for the local and $35 for the BCA, it is the last time they come. I haven't tried to recruit anyone at the higher rate.

I'll renew my membership in both the BCA and the local chapter as long as there's a Buick in my garage. I hope that's for a long time to come.

greg

[Guest BJM]

To add to Thriller's point I am curious what would make the BCA worth $50 value to you. The Bugle has X value to you. What would make up the difference between $50 and X.

Brian

I don't want the Bugle. I want membership in the BCA to allow me to judge and attend regional and national shows - maybe someday enter a Buick in 400 point judging. To allow me to join the Hawkeye Chapter. To be listed as a tech advisor if I ever get good enough.

So it's very disappointing to me to understand that the cost of the Bugle represents so much of that $50.

[Bhigdog]

[quote

Ya know Bob, I see your point in some of your assesment of the Bugle but man, you gotta realize that it, just like the BCA as a whole, is what the members make of it. Which issue(s) was the restoration of your beautiful 55 and 57 convertibles in, I must have missed them. Trade magazines pay big bucks, several thousand dollars, for stories and technical articles.

An article on my 55 was on the back cover of the March 2002 Bugle, Lamar. I'm absolutley CRUSHED you missed it. I submitted the article in the fall of 2000 but there were a year and a half of articles in the pipe line ahead of mine.

DAMN IT, Lamar. Now you tell about the " several thousands of dollars". All I got for my four month series in Hemmings was a lousey hat.

Seriously, I know full well the Bugle can't be all things to all people. I have no problem with that. My point is that there will always be a hard core group of folks who bleed "Buick" and will pay whatever it takes to belong to BCA. I don't however think they are that numerous or that their numbers are increasing. This isn't the Government where you can try to just tax your way out of a problem.

I'm not sure of the present make up of the Board but maybe it's time to think more about the buisness accumen of the candidates rather than how "devoted" he/she is to the brand. A paid Director with a strong organizational and marketing back ground might be worth considering.

One thing is for certain, trying to spend your way out of a cash crunch is not likely to work. ..........Bob

[Reatta Man]

The Bugle (nice as it is) has a value approaching zero for me. I do a quick thumb-through and if nothing jumps out at me I toss it.

Roger,

If you don't want your Bugles, please consider taking them to the local VA hospital, or veteran's nursing home. You'll be their hero for a long, long time.

If you don't want yours, send them via 4th Class mail to me and I will deliver them for you. I have one of each (VA hospital and state veteran's nursing home) just a few minutes from me. If you have a PayPal account and let me know how much the envelope and postage cost you, I'll reimburse you.

You may also be able to donate them to your local high school auto crafts class, public library or give them to a visitor at a local car show that is showing an interest in Buicks on display.

Just, please, don't keep throwing them away.

Happy New Year!

Joe

Edited January 1, 2010 by Reatta Man (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

With all due respect, if one starts printing .pdf files on a laser printer with paper the quality of what is used for The Bugle, you'll probably start spending more than $50.00 pretty soon, I suspect.

I concur with ReattaMan, if you don't want to archive your Bugle hard copies, then DONATE them to SOMEBODY . . . even if it's a local dealership for their customer waiting areas! Or public libraries. High School auto shop might be a good idea, but they'd probably not be appreciated there nor last too long . . . by observation.

Rather than get monthly emails with the files for the new magazine in them, it might be better to just get a notification email. The smaller notification email would have less possibility of getting kicked-back due to a "full mailbox" of the intended recipient. Still, though, as allegedly "antiquated" as it might be, if a BCA or local chapter member does not get something in their snail mailbox each month, it's easy to lose track of the fact you didn't get something that month and then forget about the BCA until membership renewal time comes, while unread notification emails back up in the member's in-box. With all due respect, the value of "hard copies" might not be fully understood by some of our less vintage members.

Personally, I'd rather take The Bugle (in hard copy as it currently is), each month, and find my comfortable recliner to sit in while I relax and read it. Sitting in a chair and reading it on a computer monitor screen does not have the same impact for me. Similarly, way back in the technical dark ages (using current time as a reference point) of the later 1990s, I purchased a WebTV terminal as it looked great . . . sit in the recliner, using a wireless keyboard, and surf the Internet in complete comfort and luxury . . . which, at that time sure beat sitting in a chair at a desk reading a small screen (sometimes monotone!). Twelve years later, that (knock on wood) antique WebTV terminal is still going, 33.6 modem, 97mhz processor, and all . . . just taking new batteries in the wireless keyboard every so often. It still works as well as it ever did, but with all of the new graphics on webpages, downloads take longer. It still does emails and newsgroups GREAT, though. And, it has no hard drive or capabilities of doing ".exe" things, so although it can be used to forward virus-laden emails, it can't get sick itself. Yet there are an increasing number of things it can't do. But what I used it for, it works. Be that as it may . . .

A computer magazine I subscribed to went all digital about a year ago. I used to read it at the laundromat. I kept the subscription to see how it would work, but it didn't take long to get a "email us as your mailbox is full" post card . . . for an email address which is very seldom used and certainly not full by any means. Not getting it in hard copy basically takes it off my radar screen. Not having something to physically put my hands ON means I have nothing for my money.

Granted, many chapters and other clubs are using different electronic means to do their magazines/newsletters, but they also have their own set of issues. One online GM F-body club initially refused to admit any members with an AOL email address--their claim was that AOL members didn't clean out their emails often enough. Now that AOL owns other former independent Internet providers, they might be excluding many potential members! And their observed membership is quite young compared to a typical BCA member, by observation.

Younger generations typically have a higher faith in being involved with electronic media than more vintage generations, but that is not universally true, just an observation. Therefore, it's an evolutionary process rather than revolutionary, to successfully move to all electronic media for the BCA magazine. PLUS, all areas of the USA don't have Internet access by anything other than inexpensive "land line" phone lines, and surely not DSL. Sure, there's satellite, but as anybody with satellite television knows, that has issues too (from personal experience at our family farm).

Therefore, what might work for one member (from their own personal reference point) would not work for another member in another part of the country (which provides another point of reference). As noted previously, higher numbers of magazines must be printed to receive lower unit costs for each magazine, so electronic delivery could jeopardize current unit costs with fewer magazines printed. As members would seek lower membership rates as they didn't receive a hard copy of the magazine each month, the lower number of magazines being printed might NOT result in any real savings for members in general, but possibly increased dues due to less money being collected for dues with the electronic media delivery (and higher unit costs for the magazine). Result? "Default mode" = snail mail hard copy magazines each month. It's the only "one size fits all" solution that can work for everybody . . . as "antique" at that delivery method might be.

As I've stated previously, I use the monthly magazine to expand my knowledge of Buicks in general. I might not read some articles when I get the magazine (and read some articles right then), but I'll read them later when I have time to devote time "to education". I also realize that others might not do things this way, disregarding articles of no interest to them in the process. Be that as it may. Plus, if I want to read the magazine in hard copy, I don't have to go "fire up the computer" and hope the Internet connection is a strong one, just to read an article or two at unconventional times of the day. How many people have padded toilet seats and b/g/n/wifi laptop access in their bathrooms? (just kidding)

The OTHER thing many of you might not be aware of is that The Bugle was entered for consideration in a highly prestigious competition among printed media magazines in 2008. Plus that it came in a very close second to a Hemmings publication. By those operatives who were involved in this literary activity, it was hoped that the next year's The Bugle would be victorious in 2009.

I'm not sure what happened or if the BCA's financial issues resulted in the magazine not being submitted for consideration in 2009. This was further proof of the quality, content, and execution which Pete Phillips has been able to achieve since he's been Editor. This is ONE reason that adding $10.00 to BCA membership dues to maintain the magazine as it was in 2008 was desired, at least by those of us that found out about the 2008 literary awards. Unfortunately, with restricted content and other changes, at least to me, while still great, the magazine might not have had as great of a chance of winning that literary contest as it should have had going up against formidable competition.

There are no simple answers in this whole BCA dues situation, or related issues with other similar clubs. Each thing being considered as "a fix" has dynamics which can motivate members to not renew (initially or later on). Raising dues was the easiest to do, yet those who might not see "the value, even at the higher price" can be motivated to not renew, just as others with more limited resources might have issues also.

Kind of makes me wonder if all of the electronic upgrades at the BCA National Office have not carried some increased user fees so that members can have more flexibility and convenience in paying dues or whatever--many times, technology and convenience have their own unique costs. For example, one reason that some business used to not accept American Express had to do with the fees which AMex charged the businesses to process sales transactions with their cards . . . a few per cent more than Discover, Visa, or MasterCard. What company is used to process the credit card transactions can also affect user fees, just as check verification companies aren't "free" or have the same rates/features. Anybody desire to go to purchasing money orders and send them in via "Forever stamp" snail mail rather than have online convenience to help fend off future BCA dues increases?

Hopefully, 2010 will be financially and economically better than 2009! Also, with "issues" on the horizon, our elected BOD operatives might have time to do some "break even" simulations at various membership/revenue levels positioned against existing/projected/proposed overhead cost levels to gain better insight about the best manner in which to proceed . . . a manner in which to proceed that will be mutually beneficial for the BCA and its members.

Regards,

NTX5467

Edited January 2, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[The Old Guy]

I have a complete collection of Bugles from 1966, and hopefully when I leave this world, my chilldren will donate them to the Sloan Museum or the heritage foundation. i still enjoy perusing the old ones and seeing the changes through the years

[Guest my3buicks]

I agree Joe, I also have a complete set from 66 and I often grab a box of them and read old articles and even more fun look at the prices of cars for sale.

[bhclark]

I LOVE the idea of a $5 discount off your annual membership fee for each member you sign up! That might be a logistical nightmare for the National Office, but I would like to hear their opinion on it and see this brought up at the next board meeting.

Also, for those of you who don't want or need the Bugle, maybe a second tier of membership should be made available? $50 WITH the Bugle, $20 without?

[MrEarl]

I LOVE the idea of a $5 discount off your annual membership fee for each member you sign up! That might be a logistical nightmare for the National Office, but I would like to hear their opinion on it and see this brought up at the next board meeting.

Also, for those of you who don't want or need the Bugle, maybe a second tier of membership should be made available? $50 WITH the Bugle, $20 without?

I like both those ideas but lets consider the second one with a little twist...

How much is the real cost of a single issue of the Bugle or actually 12 issues? Put the Bugle on line in a easy to read and search format and reduce the cost of membership for those members that don't wish to receive a hard copy. I know it wouldn't be that simple and there would be complications to be worked out but it should result in a substantial savings. I for one would still like to receive the hard copy but the benefit of having it on line also came to light with the December issue when some of the photos in the tech article were a little small and I thought "man I wish I could blow these up"

edit- duuhh I dropped back and read NTX5467 and realized I was be a little redundant or whatever. so never mind.....

Edited January 2, 2010 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

I just signed up a new member and I'm not even a member, how about that!

" Thanks Bryan

I can not log on and post there ( I tried ) I did join the club, but they said it will be 4 to 6 weeks before my info arrives so if wanted to add a price for me please put $10,500 Thanks a lot Tom "

[Restorer32]

I wonder how many members were gained or lost when the decision to showcase modified Buicks was made?

[Guest my3buicks]

Love when these non-BCA, or even appears to be non-Buick owners feel the need to stir the pot. One of the downsides to being attached to the hip of the AACA forum.

[Bhigdog]

Love when these non-BCA, or even appears to be non-Buick owners feel the need to stir the pot. One of the downsides to being attached to the hip of the AACA forum.

You don't need to be chicken to judge an egg...........Bob

[jdome]

I wonder how many members were gained or lost when the decision to showcase modified Buicks was made?

Count me as 1 former member lost over the modified issue. Not my thing. I thought promoting hot rod modification was supposed solve the clubs financial problems?