Rear Brake Upgrade

[Ronnie]

I had a '88 Fiero Formula. I can tell you as a big man that the words Fiero and comfort do NOT go together. I would much prefer the Reatta and go with the supercharged engine. I believe it would have enough power to suit me and still have the comfort.

You are right. The Fiero would be the best performer with a few expensive mods. The Northstar engine is a good choice for the high tech boys and the big block Chevy is a good choice all out raw horsepower. Both engines will fit if you can afford the expensive adapters. The small block kit from V8Archie (v9archie.com) is the best bang for your buck and is the most refined.

[jonlabree]

You had better check your math.

450hp would be nice but impractical for a Reatta.

[Guest spyhunter2k]

RulesReattas,

Would you please also post a thread about your stripped down Reatta when you have the time? Trimming the weight on my Reatta and shifting more of it towards the back for more even distribution is a future project of mine.

I plan on replacing the hood and trunk with carbon fiber, or at the very least, fiberglass, which I can make myself. The front and rear bumpers can be replaced with lighter weight units. The seats can be exchanged for lighter ones. Other than that, though, what can be done, other than extreme measures such as removing all interior trim items? I want to go light, but I don't want to see metal while inside the car, so the trim will stay. I could probably mold and reproduce lighter weight versions of the door panels, though...

End of hi-jack--back to the brakes...

[padgett]

"Fiero - the car you wear". "All you see are other car's license plates." I have air horns because it is below most SUVs window sills. It is a cult car but can get some incredible buys right now.

Problem is I was looking for an economy car, 4cyl - 5 spd, and wound up with a V-6/4-spd. If ever I can shed myself of lawyers and ex-wife (greed is a terrible thing), I am going to look for an Isuzu to replace the Muncie (Isuzu has a 3.31 final drive and the Getrag has a 3.61). However need a complete system: transaxle, shifter, cables, brackets.

[jonlabree]

Back to the brake "UPGRADE"

Not only did he extend the cable holders but the actuating arms are totally different from the stock arms. So this is NOT I repeat Not a simple upgrade as he calls it. I have very little faith in what he has said.

[William Rule]

As I tried to explain to NIC WALKER, "I can show you WHAT I did, but I can't show you how to WELD". You Reatta owners were the ones SNIVELN' about your rattlen' back brakes. Buick fixed the problem. Get over it. I invite any Reatta owner to come drive my upgraded Reatta---It does not lie, nor do I.

[William Rule]

I believe you are on the correct track as to Reatta HotRods ---it's power to weight!!! You can get more power by giving away your money. Or, you can EBAY the FAT off your Reatta and people give you money. Less weight=Quicker Reatta. UPS will clean up your mess and seconds come off the 1/4 mile times. WIN-WIN!!!! My Reatta coupe [NO,... Roadster]has lost way over a thousand pounds and is getting faster with each sale. I'm 99.7% satisfied.

[Guest NEMO]

Way over a 1.000 lbs ? What did you remove ? I would like to know ?

[William Rule]

I use a cutting torch and chop saw----just like any salvage yard. I will answer questions about BRAKES---Not boned-out, rusty parts cars.

[Guest steakneggs]

I wonder if you could post a couple of pics that clearly show the modified levers. A clear picture is worth a thousand unclear words. Steak

[William Rule]

STEAK: Thank you very much! You are SO right!!!!! I am NOT a writer. [nor do I want to become one] You [or some Reattea owner that is close by] are more than welcome to come drive my Reatta; take the wheels off----and take all the photos you want. Until spring my Reattas will be in my airplane's hanger---7V2---Northfork valley airport.

I suggest you [or some form member] acquire the 98 Buick brake parts. Do my "step one"---Bolt the stuff on your Reatta. Pull off the levers and mounts, take good photos of the stock parts and post the photos on this form. I will show you where I cut, pounded and welded.

[Richard S]

While I do not fully understand what Rules did with the actuating arms, I think it terribly unfair to chastise him for his effort bring this mod to our attention. Like anything mechanical, he was quick to point out that someone on this forum might well improve on his solution to the actuating arms. To his great credit, he showed us that there is a readily available rear brake upgrade [at least in terms of braking surface] to complement the front caliper upgrade. Having had the priviledge over the years of reading the posts on this forum, I am confident that someone will come up with either a very good step-by-step for what Rules did, or even a more elegant solution for those who cannot weld and pound as well as he. Finally, Rules says he much perfers to labor in his shop than peck away at his keyboard. For me, bringing his discovery and the accompanying photos to our attention was a nice little holiday gift to the forum. He is certainly under no obligation to do more. Regailing him with questions is fair, and he has shown more than a willingness to answer them. Questioning his motives is unnecessary, and has the effect of discouraging others from bringing us new or developing ideas.

[Ronnie]

I agree. I think this tread on brakes was going good until it got sidetracked to light weight Reattas and racing. I appreciate his information on the rear brakes.

[Guest steakneggs]

I didn't mean to insult your writing skills. And the pictures were decent except they didn't clearly show what most of us are interested in, the mods to the brake levers. That is what would decide for us if we want to attempt this remedy for a common nuisance, the poorly designed Reatta rear brakes. Steak

[jonlabree]

No one questioned his Motives. What I questioned was his attitude and his staement that this was a simple upgrade and why hadn't any of us figured it out.

This is Not a simple up grade it requires cutting and welding. Not what the average Reatta owner has in is his or her toolbox.

And if you think it is simple, then I want too see your finished product.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 63viking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This is Not a simple up grade it requires cutting and welding. Not what the average Reatta owner has in is his or her toolbox.

And if you think it is simple, then I want too see your finished product. </div></div>I see your point. What is simple for him may not be simple for those who do not have the tools or expertise to do the modifications that are needed.

As a machinist I see it as a simple job for me but in reality it is not. I have retired and no longer have access to the tools needed to modify the cable brackets. It might be worthwhile to someone like RulesReattas if they would modify and sell the brackets that are needed to make it a "bolt on" changeover to the newer style brakes. That would be true for a lot of other "problem solvers" like a Teves changeover to a vacuum booster system.

Barney has already taken on modifying parts the headlights and it seems he has done quite well. Maybe he would like to take on the braking system upgrade market as well.

[jonlabree]

RulesReattas;

I agree that the rear brakes were poorly design and that Buick has fixed them. But us poor Reatta owners are stuck with the design unless we go without an emergency brake.

I like your finished product and am jealous that I am unable tor reproduce it.

How about I send you the arms and the cable holders and for a fee you make the modifications to them and send them back to me.

I already have a set of calipers and have looked at them seriously, but am unable to make the mods that you made.

[William Rule]

Thank you,63viking, Daniel, Padgett,Ronnie and any others in this Reatta club that "Walk the Walk and Talk the Talk"---I guess I needed bitchslapped. To the others----I apologize. I am just a very old farmer that collects Aircraft Memorabilia. My religion is not Reatta. I bought one of the HUGHES AIRCRAFT CO. PRESENTATION SPECIALS {KB901378} for my collection. I liked the coupe so much that I bought "THE INHERITOR" s coupe off this forum!! 63viking, I will be quite happy to help you modify your 4 parts for free, but not mail order. Bring them to my shop. Put your Reatta on my lift. You can get your hands dirty ---I will do what you can't. You can take photos and report to the forum. No mail order because: A. legal liability B.No help to the forum. C.I have sent parts to forum members already and they have screwed me.

[jonlabree]

I was pretty sure you would find away around helping the members. As I said, I would have paid you up front so that you couldn't get screwed, as you put it.

I don't think I will drive all the way to CO from Il. At least not this winter.

[Ronnie]

RulesReattas,

How about reconsidering doing the job for Viking. We really need someone like you here, who is a hands on type person that is willing to help others here who do not have the means to modify the parts.

Nobody here would ask you to do the modifying and fabrication of parts for nothing. Most people here would insist on paying you a reasonable price and you should take it. If you have a problem with liability issues, have him mail a release written and signed by him, when he mails his payment in advance of doing the work. That's not too much to ask.

Don't you feel it is a little unreasonable to ask someone to drive across the country to have the work done when it could be handled cheaply and quickly through the mail? Do the work and prove to Viking and the rest of us that you are willing to do what you say... OR simply say that you don't want to do it. That is your right and we will respect it.

[William Rule]

Ronnie: Please understand---I want to help the forum [that is why I posted what could done to stop the rattle].....Simply------To fabricate the parts I would need the Reatta on the lift,in front of me, so I could fit the parts and do the final adjustments [grinder+hammer whaks]. If you were to send just the parts I would have to take my Reatta apart to use as a jig---that is too much to ask. Any other ideas??????

[Richard S]

The issue, as I see it, is whetehr Rules wants to get into the business of making these rear brake "conversion kits" or not, and whether that effort will turn out to be far more of a bother than any offer of help should be construed. Rules is correct that he would need some way to make a workable jig, and I don't recall him saying he was a machinist by trade. The amount of time it might take Ronnie to plan and execute this in numbers (if he had access to the equipment), could take someone else considerably longer via the "weld and whack" method. Rules would also want a release of liability before sending out these parts. Assuming he even wants to spend hours in the workshop putting out the holders and levers to adapt the LeSaber caliper, there remains the question of what would he have to charge to cover his time and effort, and whether there are enough of us willing to pay. I am no machinist, but I would imagine all our cars are the same at the rear, so fine-tuning each set shouldn't be the problem. I would also imagine the jig could be made without removing them from his car. Still, I when think Rules posted his find, he did not anticipate we would try persuading him to go into the business of mass producing them.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RulesReattas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ronnie: Please understand---I want to help the forum [that is why I posted what could done to stop the rattle].....Simply------To fabricate the parts I would need the Reatta on the lift,in front of me, so I could fit the parts and do the final adjustments [grinder+hammer whaks]. If you were to send just the parts I would have to take my Reatta apart to use as a jig---that is too much to ask. Any other ideas?????? </div></div>As a machinist I do understand. Instead of using your car I would suggest making a bench mountable jig. I agree it would take time to make a jig to hold the parts in the correct location to be able to duplicate modifications to the parts with any precision.

I think we all got excited because we thought you had discovered a bolt on system that would work on the rear brakes to stop the rattle without modifications. I don't believe you meant to mislead us but it sounded like that was what you were saying. We may have jumped to that conclusion without asking enough questions first. I believe that may be why Viking was a little aggravated to find it was not a bolt on installation when he had already purchased the parts.

I appreciate you showing us what can be done. I wish you would consider removing your modified parts and making a jig in order to modify the parts if someone sends their parts to you. Viking could supply his original parts to help facilitate that. I might be a future customer once you had the jig built. However, I respect your decision not to do that.

[jonlabree]

Thanks for the effort Ronnie, but I feel it has fallen on deaf ears. It is a great modification and a large improvement on the Reatta rerar brakes.

I guess I will have to figure it out for myself.

Thanks to everyone.

[William Rule]

Richard S and Ronnie Back in '70's I did a small run of Indian motorcycle parts. I see no problem producing a bolt on kit. There is a shop here in Paonia that would love to have the work. I would need to do one more car with production in mind----call it R&D.

[Rawja]

I'd definitely be interested in the kit.

[jonlabree]

Put me down for one. Just let me know how much.

[Guest steakneggs]

If you could remove the modified parts and lay them on a poster board with a ruler next to them would be sufficient for me. They're not going on the space shuttle. Steak

[Richard S]

I too will participate in Rules' very gracious offer. I only wish I were closer so I could contribute my car as the template. I think that's 4 takers and counting. Rules, when you have a price from your local fabricator, we'll start a new thread for reservations. Some forum members who might be interested may have drifted off this thread .

[William Rule]

Today I figured a way to do this conversion without a big toy box. NO WELDING, NO Removing levers--- No mods to levers--No special tools. I do not seem to speak the same as you folks. My vocabulary sucks, and I have a life in the real world. "All you gotta do is run the cable through ah four inch piece of soft copper tube. Use a P clamp to hook up one end of the tube. Bend the tube so it points to right place on the lever and hook it up. Take up the slack under the drivers seat." GOT IT???? NO????

[jonlabree]

A little more detail or a drawing Please.

[Guest spyhunter2k]

Rules,

Your vocabulary's just fine. Really good upgrades that may be within the grasp of the majority of owners to accomplish are few and far in-between. Thanks for your patience so far.

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RulesReattas</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use a P clamp to hook up one end of the tube.</div></div>

A PIPE clamp? Like a "U"? Or more like a cable clamp? What size copper tube? 3/8"?

[Guest jamhudson]

I guess I'm more like Rules than you guys. I could fix it like Rules. Just mount the calipers and do what's needed to make the cable pull the lever. I'm 70 year old country garage owner for 47 years. Take your car to a old county mechanic and tell him what you want.

P Clamps

[DAVES89]

I would think that the copper tubing diameter is not critical as well. I just has to be a large enough diameter to allow for the cable end from the caliper end to pass thru it. [i have not looked at the end under the seats to see if there is an barrel end on it like there is on the caliper end].

I would assume that the reason for the copper tube at all is to allow the cable to slide thru without binding and wearing excessivly. The reason for the soft tubing is to allow bending it to the angle you want.

Maybe someone in a warm weather area who has access to a u-pick yard could go out there and remove the emergency cable,mounting clamps,calipers and rotors from a '98 Park Ave. and try the complete setup.

It might be a direct hookup. Rules may not have looked at that as it sounds like he has quite the shop and knew he had the ability to make what he needed...

[William Rule]

I don't "think" in English, nor speak well. I still use wrong words [or is it words wrong?]. Yesterday I looked under a Park Ave to see how the factory did it. I would have done my Reatta differently---had I looked first. True, I have a fully equipped shop. I am a farmer. I am quite sure if a person were to use ALL Park Ave parts from under the drivers seat {the cable adjuster back] configured as Buick did------you won't have to modify the levers. Many of you let others work on your Reatta. I suggest to you: "If your mechanic can't convert your Reatta----you NEED to find a better mechanic"!!!!!If he charges you over &200.00 labor---he's a cheat.

[William Rule]

Someone needs to find such a fine picture of the Park Ave setup. This is picture of old rattle maker.

[Guest steakneggs]

The rear cables from a Park Avenue are probably too long because the Park Avenue is longer. I'm with the gentleman who says bolt the thing up, get the service brakes working and then see what is needed to hook up the p/b. Doesn't sound like there is widespread use of the p/b on this forum anyway. Steak

[DAVES89]

I only use mine for when I am towing...

[DAVES89]

Jon,

You bought the rotors and calipers already. Why don't you go back out there [to the u-pick yard] and grab the rest and let us know how it worked. You probably are one of the most mechanical and are certainly one of the most motivated in regards to doing this project.

Just don't forgrt to take your snowblower...