"A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Tour!"

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

OK, here goes... a new thread concerning AACA tours. If Peterg finds a way to transfer some previous posts, they would be more than welcome here.<P>As I have stated elsewhere, I am trying to get our Region interested in hosting a future tour and am gathering all the background info I can. At the same time, I enjoy reading humorous stories about "hardluck" situations. <P>Please feel free to post your likes and dislikes about various tours that you have participated in. At the same time, include stories about how things went wrong, how bad situations turned out OK and what could have been done to avoid them. <P>Hopefully, this thread will be interesting, informative and enjoyable reading for all!

[Guest]

Thanks Ron. This is what we need to get this thing started. If Peter cannot make the transfer, then I will re-post some of my stuff from the other thread. Hopefully some of the others will too.<P>I think this thread has potential for improving future tours if the chairman will just read and heed what appears here.<P>Let me begin by saying that a Tour should be designed for the pleasure of the tourists. It should not be an ego trip for the people putting it on. They should think of themselves LAST! And <B>PLEASE</B> try to get away from the ever growing trend of trying to outdo all previous tours.<P><I>ABOVE ALL ELSE, MAKE IT FUN NOT WORK!</I> <P>hvs<P>PS: PLEASE --- nobody take offense at what I say here. It is not meant to reflect on any individual or any particular tour. These are just observations based on 20 years of touring.

[D Binger]

Howard,<P>Is this what you wanted to do ? ? ?<P>Dan<P><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Before I begin the following dissertation on Founders Tours, let me state emphatically that nothing said herein should in any way be considered as being hyper-critical of any aspect of this just completed Founders Tour.<BR>That said, I believe the time has come to rein this thing in a bit. I seems that as the years pass the hosting Region of each successive Founders Tour seems to feel that they must outdo the previous year's tour. Register more cars, drive more miles, schedule more activities, see more sights and in general DO MORE THAN THE OTHER GUY.<P>This year's tour was an example of having a wonderful time on a great tour, but being exhausted when it was over. Then we all had to drive home and in my case that amounted to 1584 miles and 3 days. I got home on Monday afternoon and it wasn't until yesterday that I felt rested enough to unload the car and put it and the trailer away. That is exhaustion.<P>I stood next to one lady at the closing banquet who said she would never go on another Founders Tour again. She said it was just too much of a strain. I asked how this compared with prior Founders Tours and she replied that she didn't know because this was her first one, and her last! This is not good.<P>What must be considered is how much of a good thing is too much. 180+ miles in one day is too much. 12 hour days on the road is too much. Evening parades of 200+ cars is too much. I for one am beginning to feel the accumulated years and the toll they have taken on my body, and there are MANY participants on Founders Tour in the over 60 age group.<P>So I offer the following suggestions to future planners of Founders Tours. Yes, these cars can cover 200 miles in a day, but why should they have to. Limit the days to no more than 125 miles and let the last day be a shorter one of 50-75 miles. People do not like to arrive back at the hotel an hour before the closing banquet. Morning start from the hotel should not be required before 8:00 AM nor should you get back after 5:00 PM.<P>I could go on, but to sum it up: Stop the competition and forget about trying to be bigger and better than the prior years. Think first of what will make it a pleasurable experience for the tourists, and a marathon is not pleasurable.<P>Just one man's opinion. <P>hvs

[Guest]

Yeah Dan, that really is <B>IT!</B>.<P>Now, can you do the same thing with the rest of the posts relative to touring from your Buick thread? If you can, that will accomplish what we want.<P>Thanx ~ Howard

[Guest]

hvs -<BR>I understand your view about the apparent competition to make each successive AACA national event better than the previous Region's effort. I've been down that road as part of tour/meet staff three times and tried to do exactly what you say we do.<P>Maybe the AACA event Director should provide better counsel to the hosting Region when they see this happening. And I totally agree that national tours that have 300 to 500 participating cars may be just too large to be fun for participants, who may be interested in a lot of socializing and maybe a more leisurly pace.

[ronbarn]

Speaking of mileage planning - our region hosted the first Founders Tour back in 1988. Since it was the first one, the guidlines for driving the newer cars were non-existent. We had one day that was 230 miles with a couple of excellent stops. We found out real quick that was a mistake. However, the mistake that got us into more difficulty was the 125 miles or so on the last day. Now I must explain that the Tour Chairman's Wife and my (I was the Tour Director) wife are not hair appointments fanatics and we never even thought about making the last day the shortest so the wives who want to, can get back to have their hair done for the banquet. Also there are a lot of drivers who want to load their cars for a quick takeoff on Saturday morning. Lesson learned - Last day should not exceed more that 70-80 miles and should not have activities/stops that would cause the tourists to get back later than about 2:PM.<BR>I'll have more as this thread progresses.

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

Thanks for the input so far <P>One thing that concerns me in hosting a tour is that we are in a rural area and don't have a lot of choices for lodging. Having never attended an AACA Tour, I don't know what tourists expect to pay!<P>Also, how small of number of cars do you dare limit entries to and still have a successful event?

[JanK]

These comments couldn't come at a better time. We're still finalizing next year's Founders Tour tours, and all of this feedback is critical to our planning.<P>For a number of reasons, we're limiting participation to 150-175 cars. We had already decided to plan shorter days, based on comments from several of our members who had been on previous tours. The fact that there are a lot of very interesting places within a reasonable drive from the hub hotel will help us achieve that goal. We're also building in some free time to allow people to explore a bit on their own, if that suits them. Wisconsin has a lot to offer, and we can't include everything on this tour.<P>As always, if you have any questions or concerns about the upcoming Founders Tour, please don't hesitate to get in touch with us.<P>Jan Kamholtz<BR>Wis Region<BR>Publicity Chair/2002 Founders Tour

[Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL)]

Howard,<P>I brought this over from the Buick thread that got this one started:<P>Let's back up a little and give the people who are not familiar with AACA tours a description of what a tour is all about. I have never been on one, and don't know much about them. Does the tour begin and end at the same place each day or travel from one place to another? How many days does the typical tour last?

[D Binger]

49er<P>You realy should go on a tour before you try to put one on. There will be a great one for you to go to at the end of Oct and first part of NOV. in Alabama.<P>Dan

[Guest rcirilli]

Having been very active in the 1999 Founders tour I can say dito to many of the good suggestions you already received.<P>I definately suggest you go on a tour first. It is more important where your tourest go and how your tourest get there than how far they go. Always remember they are on vacation. Most of them are friends and they like socializing, eating and good old fashion BS. Never ever make a tour intentionally hard on the cars. Always put yourself in their place and remember they don't live there so make directions clear with lots of landmarks and use more signs than you need.<P>I could go on for pages but I'll quit !

[ronbarn]

The ideal tour - 150-200 cars (although I personally like the tours in the 50-75 vehicle range) with a headquarters hotel/motel that can hold all the tourists (minus some with motorhomes) all country roads with nary a sign of a 4-lane, 18-wheeler, or any other traffic, and facilities to hold everyone at once for breaks, lunches, activities, banquets, etc. Just try to find a place like that!<P>For the Glidden Tour in Thomasville, GA, almost all of the desires were met with the exception of a host hotel. There were several motels within a mile radius, but none big enough to really be a host. The Chairman found out that they could use the local county fairgrounds and pavilion for hosting facilities and with a huge pecan orchard for parking trailers and motor homes. It worked out fine.<P>The botttom line is to evaluate the local facilities for all the activities and lodging and evaluate what alternatives may be needed to host whatever numbers of vehicles you can host. Then set the numbers.<P>The possibilites for tour planning are so great that you really do need to go on a couple of tours to see how the planning is handled. It is not a simple solution in most cases.

[novaman]

As for the directions. If you can, get a copy of this year's founders tour book. I thought it was great. I was by myself and I could still navigate although I couldn't read the text directions I had the "pics" to go by and my parents were in the car ahead and Mom pointed when we were to take note of sometime.<P>They also listed all the people/cars by car #,Last name, Year of car, Make of car, and also had a roster with names,addresses,phone,and email address.<P>If you would like I'll scan a page and email it to you.

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

To Novaman... By all means, PLEASE E-mail it and any other info that may be helpful.<P>To all others... Don't ask, just send any info to me by e-mail or regular mail. My mailing address is:<BR>Ron Springstead<BR>PO Box 304<BR>Sharon Springs, NY 13459-0304<P>As for my inexperience in AACA Tours, I offer this. I have been in charge of several Region Tours and all have been successful! We also have several members who have been on some of the larger tours who can offer input.<P>After reading some of the previous posts, maybe we would be better off "starting from scratch" and not trying to mimic other tours. It's not that I don't wish to attend some of the tours, I'm not retired and am self employed so getting time off is nearly impossible for me right now.... as a matter of fact, I'm off to work now and will check back later.<P>Thanks to all

[Guest]

Hal ~ I haven't ignored you. I JUST got home from a trip to New Mexico for a narrow gauge railroad ride. Drive 875 miles over 2 days for a one day 64 mile train ride? As crazy as driving to some of the AACA tours.<P>Too tired to go into your question tonight, but I will compile answers and get back later.<P>Bob ~ You probably should go on for a few pages. Lots of us could benefit from your knowledge and experience. This thread has the potential for leading to better and more pleasurable tours, <BR><B>IF,</B> it gets more and varied input and is then read and taken to heart by future tour sponsors, organizers and planners. Stranger things have happened.<P>hvs<p>[ 08-14-2001: Message edited by: hvs ]

[Terry Bond]

A great thread here - I think Keep It Simple is the thought we need to emphasize. Some of the best events Ive attended have allowed time to socialize, kick some tires, stop at the Krispy kreeme shop, do a little antique hunting, see some sites and enjoy the company of fellow members. We have to allow for that at both tours and meets. That'll make them less work/stress and it just might encourage some new groups to consider hosting something like this. Ive run into some resistance from potential event sponsors because they cant "outdo" the last one. It ain't necessary! <P>I wasnt able to attend the Founders Tour, darned thing called "work" got in the way, but I understand it was a super good time with plenty to see. I think we all tend to try and do too much some times, and sometimes end up anxious to get back to work to recover from our weekends. <P>Keep this thread going - as mentioned sometime previously in another thread, we are preparing a new AACA Touring Brochure - its the counterpart to our Exhibitors Brochure. It will help inform first time participants about AACA touring, what it is, what to expect, and how to get the most out of the experience. We'll also incorporate some of this info into our AACA Touring Guidlines in the Policy and Procedure Manual so future tour chairpersons can benefit from our discussion here.<BR>Thanks,<BR>Terry

[Guest]

Terry ~ You're on the Board and therefore in a position to make this thing work.<P>For the good of AACA touring and the pleasure of our members, make it fun again.<P>Thanks in advance,<P>Howard

[novaman]

couple of sugestions.<P>1. The middle day of the tour is "Buzzy" day. The host club should be made aware if this and the "traditions" that go with it.<P>2. There should be a period of time for a DFer's meeting. (social gathering so DFers can meet face to face)<P>3. Something should in writing as to dress for the banquets. I know that on the Founders Tour on Sunday, there was discussion as to if it was suit and tie, shirt and tie, or just a sports coat. As a first timer this made me a little edgy as to wether I was going to be apprioperatly dress for it.

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

Hey Novaman,<P>A couple of comments and questions for you... First, you did a great job of updating the Founder's Tour in upstate NY! Were you asked to do so by the host Region or did you just do it on your own?<P>You mention the middle day of a tour being "Buzzy Day" and the "traditions" that go with it. Please explain what you mean and if it applies to ALL tours or just the Founder's Tour. I found no mention of it in the P&P Manual. <P>As for proper attire for the banquet, did you end up over-dressed, under-dressed or just right? Just curious. <P>You've been a great contributor to this thread so far so PLEASE keep it up!

[Guest]

<B>FOR THE INFORMATION OF ANYBODY AND EVERYBODY:</B><P><I>BUZZY</I> is the nickname to Buzzard's Breath Touring Region, a non geographical Region within AACA devoted to touring and the promotion thereof. It has <B>NO</B>. official status within <B>ANY</B> AACA tour whether it be major or divisional. Buzzard's breath is not recruting, but neither is it an exclusive or exclusionary group. It is strictly a social group of active tourists who informally gather [as Buzzards are prone to do] at AACA tours.<P>BUZZY DAY has nothing to do with anyone other than members of the Buzzard's Breath Touring Region! Please do not give it status it neither seeks nor is entitled to.<P>It has become customary for the members of the Region, when on a tour, to wear their Region shirts on the middle day of a tour. One or more members of the Region accept responsibility for displaying the Region banner on tours. On occasions the group will have a pizza party one evening of the tour. The spirit of this group does much to add to the fun and comradarie of touring.<P>I am making this posting to dispell the idea that there might be any requirement or desire on the part of BB that we be accorded any special privileges or status on a tour.<P>We take care of ourselves quite well and have always managed to work in our Region activities informally and without interferring in the plans and activities of the rest of the tourists.<P>So please folks, don't worry about us. We require <B>NO</B> special accomodation.<P>Now all of you go out and have fun on a tour, ya heah. <P>hvs<p>[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: hvs ]

[novaman]

Okay Howard. Maybe it should have been third on the list. I was just thinking of the different things that was taking place during the Founders Tour. Oh, well on to other things.<P>I wasn't asked by the G.V.A.C.S. Region to do it. I did it because there was five members of the Alamance Chapter of the NC Region on the tour. That's why it was done on the Alamance Chapter's website. It was a bit of a challenge but by doing it I gained some good experience. I still have some photos to scan and add to it and hopefully I’ll get the other three rolls developed soon for more pictures.<BR>I was asked the night of the banquet to take photos for the G.V.A.C.S club beacuse the camera they were using only had room for a couple of photos so I was the backup since I was taking photos anyways. <BR>Let me add this. I grew up as a kid in that region as my parents were members of G.V.A.C.S Region. So I was Among old friends some of who I hadn't seen in 14 yrs. (since I moved to NC)<P>As for attire: middle of the road I had a sports jacket, no tie.

[Guest]

Hal ~ I haven't forgotten your questions on tours. It has just taken a little longer than expected to think it out and condense. <P>I will give you this for openers. "A tour is a short drive between feedings." There are 3 pound tours, 5 pound tours and others too frightening to mention. On this last Founders Tour, I lost 1 pound even with a KK shop nearby. That should give you an idea of the pace we kept. ~ hvs<p>[ 08-16-2001: Message edited by: hvs ]

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

I don't know about anyone else, but I look forward to checking out this thread every day when I get home from work! So far, it has been very informative and entertaining! <P>One thing lacking is the horror stories. There has to be some of you out there whose ride let you down, or maybe vague directions that got you lost. Come on! Not everyone could have gone on all these tours without problems!<P>The info posted so far is definitely helpful for future tours, but I think problems, and the way they were handled could be just as helpful!

[Guest]

Ron ~ I think most of us have experienced horror stories, disappointments and such on tours. I think that the reason you are not seeing these spelled out on here is that most of us, and I am one of those, do not want to publicly criticize the host group for the whole world to see. They gave it their best effort and nothing is to be gained from naming names or singling out particular tours for criticism. <P>I personally will only cite general areas as problems as I have experienced them, and offer a generalized solution; which is only my opinion and could be wrong.<P>It is necessary to read between the lines to gain more insight into what went wrong, where and when it happened and what group was responsible. Besides, what one person might feel was a major screwup, may have passed un-noticed by many on the tour.<P>I know we should not take discussion off the forum, but in this case if someone absolutely must know details, then probably they should contact the individual who made the post.<P>Tours could stand some improvement, but it can be done, I believe, in a non confrontational manner.<P>hvs

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

No, Howard, I was NOT looking for confrontations or start finger pointing... I just thought there may have been situations in the past that, although problems at the time, can be looked back on and laughed at today. <P>Like when I laid out my first tour, I used a topographic map to find back roads with as few big hills as possible. I drove the route and was very happy with it. I had everything done a month before the tour. <P>The day of the tour, about halfway along, I came to a stop sign at an intersection. Facing me was a sign that said "FRESH OIL"! All I could picture was all our cars getting covered with black, goopy oil and crushed stones. I proceeded slowly and found that the new road surface had been down long enough for the stone and oil to solidify. <P>I learned that, especially during road repair season, a tour route must be driven just before the tour so there are no unexpected surprises.

[Guest rcirilli]

Is this what you had in mind ? This is a true story of my first ride that I wrote many, many, well lets just say several years ago. <P><BR>My First Ride by Bob Cirilli<P>Back in October of 1981, I ran across a dream in the form of a 1929 Pontiac Roadster. A dream because I wanted an early roadster since I was fourteen years old. Well, two months passed before I decided that I would make an offer on the dream. Much to my surprise, the offer was accepted and I was soon to be the owner of a like new 1929 Pontiac Roadster. It was a very cold Wednesday that I headed up the mountain to Somerset, PA in a tilt bed truck praying it would stay cold so my dream didn’t get more than dusty on the way home. Much to my surprise It got to it’s new home without a big event. (Unless you call my pants getting wet once or twice a big event.) The weeks passed as I occasionally dusted, examined, and started my dream car. February 27th arrived and I made my usual visit to where the car was stored and found a rather dead battery. My first major mechanical feat began. Out came the carpets, insulating paper, floorboards and finally the battery. That night the battery sat in the warmth of my basement devouring a full charge.<P>Sunday, February 28th, back in storage. The battery when in easy, the floor boards next, but before the insulation and carpet I’ll just see if it will start. A touch of the starter and there it was purring like a kitten. Gee, it’s fifty degrees and the sun is shining and I’m ready. I hop in like a kid at Christmas. I even remember to invite my wife. Slipped the gearshift in reverse, let out the clutch and we’re off. Somehow I never thought this day would come. I was having the time of my life, up and down hills, on the flats, and muscling the steering. Now I really know what the Toyota commercial meant when they said, “Oh what a feeling.”<P>I suddenly realized I was being selfish and I should let my wife Dee in on the fun. She agreed it might be nice so I stopped the car, set the hand brake, got out, Dee slid over, I walked around and got back in. “Is this first?” “Yes,” I said, “just let the clutch out smoothly.” She did and we were off. She tried not showing it but she was having fun.<P>“I smell something”, she said. Then smoke began pouring from under the floorboards. “What should I do?” “Turn it off”, I said as I got out and could see my dream going up in flames. No screwdriver handy, oh! A dime, perfect for getting the floor boards off. Dee was wisely going through the rumble seat looking for a fire extinguisher. Finally off came the floorboards. It’s the hand brake! I never released it.<P>I grabbed a rag and furiously smothered the fire. I had to catch my breath and realized that my heart was furiously thumping. Moments passed as I regained my composure. We got back in the car and worked our way back to some level of confidence. Everything was fine, but not at all what I expected of my first ride.

[Guest]

Ron ~ Maybe in my haste to be diplomatic and non confronational, something of which I am rarely accused, I misunderstood the type of stories that were being sought. I assumed that you were seeking National Tour organizational horror stories. <P>So, instead of avoiding any stories that might embarrass anyone, I will begin with a fairly recent occurrance. Depending on the response, more such experiences may follow.<P>It appeared that the tour was created by combining parts of several old tours in the area and making one new tour out of it. This led to some closed routes with no directions around them. Road construction of MAJOR proportions which could not possibly have begun anywhere close to the tour date. We finally realized that we were in big trouble when the increment mileage on the tour book was not related to the total mileage traveled. When you travel 2.6 miles forward and the total mileage goes from 78.2 to 74.9 you begin to worry. <P>Of course we all found our way home, but not without some very creative map reading. <P>Moral: <B>NEVER</B> go on a tour without a <I>GOOD</I> map of the area you plan to tour.<BR> Best are county or area maps followed by state maps. AAA Eastern, Central US, etc maps are worthless for that purpose.<P>Ron, is this what you were looking for in the form of horror stories. I didn't mean to get preachy back there. I was just trying to be "nice". <P>hvs

[Guest]

Now to briefly answer Hal's tour questions from earlier in this thread.<P>Major AACA tours like the Glidden, Vintage, Founders and Reliability are 5 days long. AACA Divisional tours tend to be 3 days long, but their length is determined by the host Region or Chapter. There have been some longer and shorter than 3 days.<P>Each tour has its own year of eligibility restrictions. Reliability - 1915 & earlier. Vintage - 1927 & earlier. Glidden - AACA [odd numbered years]1935 & earlier, VMCCA [even numbered years] 1942 & earlier. Founders - 1936 up to 25 years old.<P>Divisional tours set their own year limits, but must be at least 25 years old.<P>Non nationally sanctioned tours can be whatever the sponsoring group wishes, so this discussion will be limited to National Tours.<P>For many years now the "HUB" tour has prevailed. One reason for this is the increased size of the tours which makes moving from place to place every night more difficult. So now we set out from and return to the same hotel every night. A workable exception has been a two city tour whereby you spend a few nights in one place and then move to another in the middle of the tour. It can be fun, but it requires a lot of effort on the part of the organizers.<BR>Also if your trailer is in one city and you have a permanently disabling breakdown in another, getting back to point "A" isn't easy.<P>Now this is just my personal opinion, but I think some of the adventure has gone out of "organized touring" and people just don't want to put forth the effort needed to participate in a progressive tour. Also many of today's tourists have never been on a progressive tour or even know what it means or entails. Enough on that!<P>Finally, what do you do on a tour? You drive, sometimes too far on one day. You eat, sometimnes too often and too much. You socialize, with old touring buddies and new ones you meet on the tour. You <B>FIX</B> cars, yours, your friends and those of tourists you have never met before. Everybody lends a hand if needed or requested. It has been said that most breakdowns occur on the first 2 days of a tour and by the end of the week all the cars have been restored. <P>You also do all the activities scheduled by the host group. Museums, car collections boat rides, shopping stops [please hosting organizations, we do not need an outlet mall stop on each and every tour] parks, historic villages, factories and many other points of interest in the tour area.<P>This could turn into a book, but Terry Bond has said AACA is working on a Touring Brochure which I am certain will say it better and more completely than I have here.<P>hvs

[24T42]

Ron,<P>I think you originally wanted likes and dislikes about tours we have been on. I have only been on 2 National AACA tours - the first one I went I was Tour Chairman. The second one was the Reliabilty Tour last year. Sugarloaf Region did an excellent job with the tour. The routes were terrific not to mention the covered bridges and the ford through the stream. The one thing I did not like was on Wednesday they arranged for a bus tour to Baltimore (this was optional but knowing the area I was hesitant to go off alone). Maybe I have traveled too much in my youth, but I didn't travel all the way to MD hauling a trailer to take a bus ride. I would have much preferred to have a day in the old car - even if they duplicated a tour route. They were perfect.<P>I just feel that are plenty of bus tours leaving from the Raleigh area that I could take to Baltimore. When I go on a old tour, I like to drive the old cars. Once again, maybe I have traveled too much in my youth as my Dad was in the military and we traveled alot. This of course is just one tourist's opinion.<P>24T42

[Guest]

I have been on at least 20 tours put on by the N.J. region. I have not yet been on a national tour. The N.J. reg. tours last 9 days and have had anywhere from 28 to 42 cars. Some have been hub tours, some have been traveling tours, some have been a combination of both. I have enjoyed them all. Perhaps the smaller size of these tours as opposed to national tours makes them more managable. However the suggestions on this thread are good ones. Generally these tours have a maximum of 125 miles a day. Usually shorter. It depends on how many stops are on the way. Some activities are planned as group activities but there is much free time to persue individual interests. We very rarely convoy its just too difficult so if we do its only for short distances.

[Guest]

Judy ~ I could not agree more on the undesirability of not touring on <B>EVERY</B> day of a tour.<P>Having lived much of my life in Baltimore, I opted out of the bus trip to Charm City. We took the day for a trip to Gettysburg. If there is something in the area of a tour worth a bus trip, perhaps it should be scheduled as a extra day before or after the regular tour.<P>Many years ago there was a Glidden Tour that was set up with 3 days [MWF] alotted for touring, with the remaining 2 days off. What a waste. You talk about hauling a trailer a long way for very little reward. If there was not enough in the area to fill a tour, then why was the tour awarded to that group in that area? It was not an AACA Tour.<P>hvs

[Guest]

24T -<BR>I agree with you that off day activities that don't include antique car touring are sort of a short change for some participants. Not to be defensive here, but the 2000 Reliability Tour book had a separate page of "on your own" self directed tour possibilities for the Wednesday off-day. These included several major historic sites that were easy drives like Gettysburg National Monument (hvs went there), or Anteitum National Monument, or an antique shop tour around Frederick, or a non antique tour to the Mall in DC via Metro. We could have gone a little further and provided maps, but the hotel had maps available for anyone who asked.

[fordee9r (Ron Springstead)]

Yes!!! These are the types of stories I was looking for! Each one contains a little tibit that future tour directors can use to plan better tours!<P>I'm sure there are more out there that can be told without naming the particular Tour or its host Region.<P>Keep them coming!!!

[Guest]

OK Ron, here is another thing that is a major detractor from a good tour. <B>INTERSTATE HIGHWAYS!!!</B> <P>From time to time tourists find themselves routed onto Interstates. There seems to be a belief in some quarters that because a certain era of cars {Founders} can drive at Interstate speeds, that it is OK to route them that way on a tour. <B>IT'S NOT!!</B>.<BR>Its unsafe, frightening and just plain dumb. It isn't too good for public relations either, when our old cars get out there and drive 20 or MPH below the posted limit. <P>There was one brass era tour where the cars were sent onto an interstate. Imagine the terror of driving a 1914 Buick of 22.5 HP on an interstate in the northeastern US at rush hour. I got more shaken fists and middle finger salutes in that short stretch than you usually see in a month. We ran the car so hard to keep up and eventually get off that we burned out part of the ignition. <P>That night after looking ahead at the future day's routes and seeing another excursion onto the Interstate, we decided to skip that day entirely and take the tow vehicle and see some of the local sights. Beat the hell out of what was otherwise in store for us.<P>I have lots more dos and don'ts from my touring experience, but this thread should have input from a varied group of tourists in order to be of maximum benefit.<P>hvs

[Guest]

I disagree with what has been said about bus runs. When visiting downtown areas of large cities they are preferable to driving a number of antique cars into congested areas. Interstates also do not scare me when driving a 50 or 60s car. I use them regurlarly when going to meets or when on tour and I need to make time. I do keep up with the traffic easily. It is also easier to keep a group of cars together on an Interstate however prudence dictates that this be done during slack traffic periods. A good solution is to have both a back road and a highway route in the tour book if feasible. Both of the above were used this year on the N.J. Region tour. The bus tour was to the Baltimore Inner Harbor.

[Guest]

Al ~ I had just about completed a rebuttal to your post on interstates and bus trips when AOL cut me off and wiped it out. That was probably a good thing since some of my answers to your points were getting a bit testy. So now I have another chance to post a more measured response. If AOL buzzes me again in the middle of this, I will post it in pieces.<P>First, Interstates on national tours are stupid no matter how much you like to drive YOUR cars on them. Since all cars are expected to follow the tour route, no one has the right to put someone else and their car in an uncomfortable or dangerous situation. PERIOD!!!.<P>Second, what kind of a tour is planned so that everybody must be kept together? Is someone afraid they will get lost if the whole tour is not lined up in front and behind them, and bunched up nice and close. Why not lock bumpers and let the lead car do all the work and save the rest gas?<P>Finally as to bus trips. There is nothing wrong with using buses as part of the day's tour to get into a heavily congested area. On this year's founders Tour we drove 30 some miles to the busses, rode then to Niagra Falls and back to our cars and then drove back to the hotel.. we drove our cars 60+ miles on the day we rode the busses. The same thing was done a few years back when we went into Pittsburgh on a Founders Tour. Drive-Ride a bus-Drive.<P>What I am objecting to, and I believe I made it quite clear, was that is was not a good procedure to take a day out of the tour for a bus trip somewhere without ANY driving of the tour cars. I stand by that.<P>I thought this response might be a little less direct, but I guess it isn't. Granted it is only MY opinion, and is therefore subject to instant dismissal, but your ideas do not fit well with National Tours. They may be OK for local Region tours because people do not drive thousands of miles to participate, but when you drive 1800 miles to get to a tour as some of us do, it is a little late to drop out when you discover that the tour is on interstates.<P>Please recall what I said at the beginning of this thread. A tour should be designed for the pleasure and benefit of the average tourist. If you want to drive your modern iron on the interstate, don't force others to come along.<P>hvs<p>[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: hvs ]

[24T42]

I hope this thread gets a lot of input. For that to happen though, egos will have to be checked at the door. The likes and dislikes offered here are not a criticism on any Region, tour, and/or tour chairman or director. They are being offered as suggestions or ideas for future tour planners to consider. They will not be required and can be acted upon, or not, as deemed appropriate by a hosting organization. However the suggestion being made are by those who have gone on past tours and who will probably be touring in the future.<P>Planning a tour can be a lot of work but also very rewarding. I can speak from personal experience having served as Tour Chairman of the 1999 Vintage Tour. In planning a tour, one must keep in mind that there is no such thing as a perfect tour. When you take into considerations the logistics of planning such an event, it is almost a certainty that something will go wrong or someone will be unhappy. You have a large group of people and cars to make accommodations for, a large variety of tastes and interests to satisfy, a lot of meals and points of interest to plan for a week, routes to map, etc. A lot can happen. <P>I liked Howard’s definition of touring – “ a short drive between feedings.” For me, I love to tour and when I do it is not about the places I see and visit. For me, it is the experience of sharing my love of the antique car with people who share the same passion. It, therefore, makes little difference to me if I go into the city to see the world’s greatest museum. I would rather be on a back road and having a picnic by the river. To me it is about the time I spend with the car and friends. The places you go and see are the icing on the cake. They are not my main reason for touring – it is the cars, the people, and a shared common experience. Yes, I agree that a bus trip is the only way to visit a hectic congested downtown metro area. But my point is – why not find something else to do that will not take you into the city. <P>Also when planning a tour please remember your target audience. What age car are you planning for? Yes, side trips can be great but are they appropriate for the age of cars on tours? Since I have already stated that I did not like the bus tour on last year’s Reliability tour let me take a minute and elaborate. Yes, suggestions were made and maps were available. Had I not gone on the bus trip I would have liked to have done something in the old car, which for us was a 1915 Ford Model-T. I went to Baltimore because the idea of driving alone, without the trouble truck and other tourists in an unfamiliar area was frightening. This was a wise decision as while on this tour we lost a wheel. But because it happened while on tour, Sugarloaf Region came to our rescue and within 20 minutes of losing the wheel, we were loaded on the trouble truck and headed back to the hotel. I would hate to think what would have happened if we had been out on our own. <P> <P>Did I take the bus trip? Yes. Did I have a good time? Yes. Did I almost not go on the tour because of it? Yes. If the same tour were offered next year, would I go? Yes. I have often sung the praises of Sugarloaf Region’s here in NC on the great tour they provided. The bus trip, for me, was in my opinion the one weak link.<P>As I said earlier, I hope no one takes anything said here personally. I know anything said about the 1999 Vintage Tour will be taken by me in a positive light. Anything said will help me plan the next tour whether it is a National tour or just one for our Region. I hope other past tour chairman will do the same. However, I am afraid that there will not be many posts as most everyone that tours knows the amount of work involved and does not want to appear too critical. Please prove me wrong! <P>Well, I have rambled enough for tonight.<P>24T42<p>[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: 24T42 ]

[Guest]

Judy ~ Since I am the one, who up to now has cited most of the tour "problems", I will no doubt be the one called a "critical SOB". I am not citing these instances for the sake of finding fault, rather it is in the hope that we might all learn something from our assorted experiences on tours. I have been doing National Tours, both AACA and VMCCA for 20 years at the rate of from 2 to 5 a year. That adds up to a lot of tours and you cannot help but experience both good and less than good.<P>I took issue with Al a bit ago because he appears, based on his stated ideas on touring, to lack experience participating in National Tours. Nothing personal, but I felt that such thoughts should be challanged for the good of touring. Everyone is free to take either side and it matters not. Just be sure to mention in your tour flyers if it will be an Interstate Tour.<P>As for the 1999 Vintage tour in NC. One of the best I have participated in, and you know I "calls 'em as I sees 'em." Good fun, good routes, good food and a good time was had by all even though I did almost run over the Governor on the day we parked the cars on the Capitol grounds in Raleigh.<P>Of course it had to be good. We were in KK land.<P>hvs<P>PS I lost the transmission in my Suburban tow vehicle on the way to the tour and broke a spindle on the trailer on the way home, and I STILL thought we had a wonderful time.<BR> . A well planned and well managed tour makes adversity fade into the background.<p>[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: hvs ]

[novaman]

Howard, as you know my dad and I both had '63 Chevy IIs on the tour. Yes, Dad drove his on a bunch of interstate road getting to the tour (I cheated. I trailered I'm not getting into <B>how</B> you get your car there). There were two evenings on the way back to the hotel we left the tour route and headed back on the interstate with both cars. <P>What I wanted to say here is although our cars are interstate capable, it is <B>much</B> more enjoyable to stick to the secondary and back country roads. Touring should be at leisurely pace. Not having to drive fast just so you don't get run over.<p>[ 08-20-2001: Message edited by: novaman ]

[Guest]

David ~ I agree. There have been several times I too have bailed out while driving a modern car on a tour and taken the intrestate home. <B>BUT -</B> that was <B>MY</B> choice. I was not sent there as part of the tour route.<P>Also as you said, what can be interesting to see along an interstate while going hell bent to keep from being run over at 80 MPH.<P>It occurred to me that on the same tour with <BR>your '63 Chevys and my '51 Chevy there could have also been a 1936 American Bantam, that would have been eligible for a Founders Tour. How would you like to drive that on I 90?.<P>So back to where I started, <B>NO INTERSTATES ON THE DESIGNATED TOUR ROUTE, PLEASE!</B><P>hvs