Trailer Towing Safety Seminar????

[R W Burgess]

<span style="font-weight: bold">On another thread in this forum, I had a flash of brilliance (don't stay too close to me when this happens every decade or so! ) of sharing towing experiences with AACA members and/or all auto enthusiasts in general. Please read the posts below and add your opinions. We've all seen accidents that could have been avoided. Maybe a seminar or a class on a showfield this year can help prevent us from having an accident. </span>

<span style="color: #FF0000">The Ron Green post that started this thread;</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Helping out with the parking of the truck and trailers for the Glidden tour, it was absolutely amazing what some consider safe. I am surprised that there are not more fatal accidents, and even more surprised at how many really don't know how to safely pull a trailer including simply backing one up. </span>

Hey! Hey! I feel a Philly seminar coming on!!!!

This is a very important subject that should certainly be covered somewhere.

Subjects covered:

1.Trailer hitches available and the differences in each

2.Preloading of trailer hitch

3.Proper straps and ratchets

4.Proper placement of vehicle on trailer

5.Proper tie down of vehicle

6.Tires and good inflation practices

7.Equipment security

8.Purchasing of tow vehicles and the options necessary

9.Anything else Ron Green???

Ron has graciously accepted the moderator job for this subject next year.

Wayne

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[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey! Hey! I feel a Philly seminar coming on!!!!

This is a very important subject that should certainly be covered somewhere.

Subjects covered:

1.Trailer hitches available and the differences in each

2.Preloading of trailer hitch

3.Proper straps and ratchets

4.Proper placement of vehicle on trailer

5.Proper tie down of vehicle

6.Tires and good inflation practices

7.Equipment security

8.Purchasing of tow vehicles and the options necessary

9.Anything else Ron Green???

Ron has graciously accepted the moderator job for this subject next year.

Wayne

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Here are a few more...

10. Sway control, what is it and why you need it.

11. Purchasing a trailer (including custom features)

12. Trailer modifications

13. Brake Controllers (buying one and using it)

14. Trailer Maintenance

15. Towing Mirror Options and their proper use

If there was only more space at some of the larger meets a car trailer rodeo/hands on trailer session might be something to consider.

Maybe this activity could be done at the chapter and/or Region level instead of meets.

Maybe in addition to a seminar at Philly, this information could also be published in the AACA magazine as a multi-part series???

That way many, many, more AACA members could benefit from this other than those who are able to attend a seminar.

If publishing this information in the magazine is not possible then what about putting it on the AACA web site??

BTW, if anyone really wants some fun they should get their trailer inspected at my local inspection station. At this facility one has to back their trailer uphill, around the side of the building between the building and the owners racing rig. The last time I was inspected there I had to do all that and parallel park behind the racing rig. The look on the staff's face when they came in the next morning and saw where I parked was priceless.

[Ron Green]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey! Hey! I feel a Philly seminar coming on!!!! Ron has graciously accepted the moderator job for this subject next year. Wayne </div></div>

It would probably be easier with less chance of upsetting some with "worlds worst cars ever made" seminar.

17. Why it is important to have your battery in a enclosed case to prevent a fire.

18. Make sure tires, etc inside trailer are secured when towing (unless you like dents).

19. Checking your lights and brakes before and during use.

20. How to tell when a tire is shedding or losing air while towing.

21. Learn to kick your tires and know if one is losing air. Optional piece of wood can be used.

22. Do not cover your vehicle while towing even in a enclosed trailer

23. If hauling various vehicles a electric winch may be useful.

24. If hauling various vehicles you may need several tie down locations in the floor.

25. Some vehicles tend to loosen when towing. Check straps periodically.

26. Setting the adjustment of the sway bar control.

[R W Burgess]

Ron, well we certainly have a good list to start with. I'm wondering where you are from Charlie? I know I'll be putting on publications in 2009, and not knowing what Ron is doing, maybe we need a new leader for a seminar like this?

Wayne

[R W Burgess]

Disregard this post. An "Adminstrator Malfunction"!

Wayne

[R W Burgess]

Adding to this line of thinking. If any AACA Meet had a show field large enough to accommodate a tow vehicle and trailer at or very near the show field, a wonderful hands on seminar could be conducted. We'd need good "early" advertising of a demonstration of this type. I'd be willing to help out, if someone else would step up to the plate and.......

1. supply the required meet field

2. be the lead instructor at the site.

We could certainly find a host tow unit from a member that has arrived to the meet. I could also print out the necessary items (outline) already posted here that need to be covered. Any comments? Any suggestions? Any leaders?

Wayne

[Ron Green]

Quote: "I had a flash of brilliance (don't stay too close to me when this happens every decade or so! )"

Wayne you are making these so easy for jabbing you I can't do it?

I am tentatively scheduled to do the "worlds worst cars ever made" seminar in 09 (Philly) however that could change I'm sure. With only 45K tow miles under my belt there are many out there with much more experience to lead a seminar.

27. Be sure beverages are iced down so once rig and trailer are at destination and parked comradery, ribbing and celebration of getting there alive with all the nuts on the road can begin.

[West Peterson]

I'd consider moderating this, though I am by no means an expert. I have written a two-part story on safe trailering for Cars & Parts, though they only used one part of it.

[R W Burgess]

West, Great! You're elected. I'd love to work with you on this.

You realize that you need someone to point out your mistakes in front of everyone, you know?

Ron, send me an e-mail at waynesway32@yahoo in case I've lost yours.

Wayne

[novaman]

I think the hardest thing to teach someone is to back up using mirrors.

[R W Burgess]

David, that's generally a parking lot problem, small amounts of damage. Not saying it shouldn't be raised, though. I took a new Driver-To-Be to the local parking lot a couple years ago, and worked with him until he could pass the state drivers "back-up" test.

Practice makes perfect, you know.

[West Peterson]

David

It is confusing, but it doesn't take that long to learn how to back up. I think what most people need to get beyond is the intimidation of it all. It's harder (nay, almost impossible) to back up one of those shorty U-Haul trailers than a long car trailer.

[Ron Green]

Backing up 101:

Facing forward put your hand at the bottom and middle of the steering wheel. Whichever direction / side you want the rear end of the trailer to go too, turn the wheel to that side.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: R W Burgess</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ron, well we certainly have a good list to start with. I'm wondering where you are from Charlie? I know I'll be putting on publications in 2009, and not knowing what Ron is doing, maybe we need a new leader for a seminar like this?

Wayne </div></div>

Wayne, I am located on near Reading, PA. (about 60 miles from Philly).

Unfortunately, Jan-March is not a good time for me to be away from the office which is why I have not attended the Philly event.

I also have far fewer miles towing than many others here or in the AACA.

One of those people are probably far better qualified than myself to do a seminar.

I would be more than happy to pass along some of what I have learned if needed.

Before I purchased my tow vehicle and trailer I was blessed to have a friend with many years of towing experience that passed on his knowledge to me.

He helped me design my trailer and gave me 3-4 hours of on the road training when I brought the trailer home from out of state.

He also made himself available for any questions I had after my trailer purchase.

I have told him a numerous occassions that he should start a company to teach people how to purchase trailers and Tow SAFELY. Maybe someday he will.

Another AACA member has a web site with a lot of trailering tips. Some of the tips one this site are from my friend. http://www.monmouth.com/user_pages/friartuck/lincoln/trailer/trailer.html

I tracked down a photo of my parallel parking job I mentioned in my previous post: http://www.gti16v.com/miscpics/ppark2.jpg

BTW, you cannot tell from this photo but there is a jetski testing tank maybe 5-6 feet behind my trailer.

Another item fopr the list...

28. How to use reflective tape to improve visibility of your trailer.

Be advised that the tape on my trailer in the above photo is not applied to commercial regulations. I went a little overboard.

[Dandy Dave]

I don't no??? I been backing up manure spreaders and other stuff since I was about 5 or 6 so it comes natural to me. One day my old pappy put me on one of the John Deere's we had and said, "Just keep tryin until you get it under the barn cleaner proper". It must have took me an hour to figgure it out the first time. I can back most anything anywhere now. Just fur fun, try a 4 wheel wagon with a worn front end sometime. I bet Thriller, bein a farm boy, can do it too. Dave!

[Guest dabecker65@gmail.com]

Like Dandy Dave - try backing up a "train" of 3 or 4 steerable gravity bed wagons... and get the last to go where you want it.

[Shop Rat]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1DandyDaves</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just fur fun, try a 4 wheel wagon with a worn front end sometime.</div></div>

Bill worked on farms in New Jersey when he was a teenager into his early twenties during the summers. He can back those four wheel wagons to this day. And here at home he can back our 35' Winnebago between our 32' race/camper trailer and the edge of the drive way and not put it into the side of the trailer or the grass. Same with backing the trailer/camper, slicks it right in beside the RV and never misses.

One thing we have never figured out. Why don't trailer/RV manufacturers puts nice big back-up lights, or any back-up lights in some cases, on trailers and some RVs? We always end up adding a pair of aftermarket driving lights to the back of our trailers/RV's so that he can see at night to back them up safely.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shop Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

One thing we have never figured out. Why don't trailer/RV manufacturers puts nice big back-up lights, or any back-up lights in some cases, on trailers and some RVs? We always end up adding a pair of aftermarket driving lights to the back of our trailers/RV's so that he can see at night to back them up safely. </div></div>

I know what you mean about the backup lights.

My trailer came with a standard set but they are not very big/bright.

I often wonder why many trailer/RV manufacturers do not put back up alarms on their products either.

When I purchased my trailer I made sure one was installed on it. (think alarms used on construction vehicles)

I get some odd looks from people at car shows, rest stops, etc. Some realize it is there for THEIR SAFETY, others do not.

Car trailers backing up can be very quiet. Not a good thing when people are not paying attention to their surroundings and get hit by a car trailer backing up.

Soon after I brought my new trailer home I installed a backup alarm kill switch. Best way to keep the peace in the neighborhood when one gets home

late from an event and has to back into one's driveway.

[Paul Dobbin]

OK guys, I'm ready to read the whole seminar. I've been towing for years and am also amazed at how poorly other people take on this task. I think I'm safe, but I bet I

learn a few things.

I tow mostly an open aluminum car trailer (the Road Show)but also have an enclosed one (the POD) and tow them behind a motor home. I'm sort of like a small train at over 60 feet. I'd be happy to share what I think I know, but am more interested in learning what you all have to share.

Sounds like a WIN WIN for this forum.

[R W Burgess]

Paul, West and I, and anyone else that wants to, are leaning toward having a trial seminar at Cleveland Tennessee, if I can get it put together. This all very preliminary. A work in progress, if you will. We'll keep you posted.

Wayne

[Guest imported_Bookreader]

Has anyone remembered DRIVING the cars to the meets?

It still can be done. It is loads of fun to do. Oh yes, there is a LOT of clean-up at the other end. We sat with a couple who won their FIRST JUNIOR at Charlotte and they DROVE their Model A to the meet from Virginia. Wayne, you took their picture at our table with their trophy.

[R W Burgess]

Since you asked Fran!

This is Neil and Connie Hughes of White Stone, Virginia. They won their First Junior the first time out.

Here's Neil and Connie's new Ford. They drove it all the way from White Stone on mostly back roads, as the average speed of this vehicle is 45-50 miles per hour. Neil said it wasn't raining too bad on the way down, so clean up was relatively easy. A black car, Neil? Are you sure?

They were very excited to have won the first time out. You'll also notice Earl and Judy Beauchamp in this picture too, fellow long distance Northern Neck Region members from Florida.

[Ron Green]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bookreader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone remembered DRIVING the cars to the meets?</div></div>

Fran, I wouldn't be able to attend many of the shows / tours we do ever year without a trailer. Some of the tours are in Canada or half-way across the USA. With a small car that is impossible to find parts, is ready to explode at 60 mph, zero room for a weeks work of clothes and spare parts, etc a trailer makes sense for us. Get it there then drive it everywhere.

[West Peterson]

Black, black, black... love it, love it, love it!!!

[Peter J.Heizmann]

You may want to add:

--Grease the bearings, or, re-pack them.

--At every hook up, I put grease on the ball and a dab on each of the stabilizer bars.

--Tighten the receiver bolts on the tow vehicle as Howard Scotland mentioned years ago within an identical thread. (The trailer is always the main topic and seldom is the tow vehicle's receiver discussed.)

--Tires dry out over the years. (Just replaced mine. They were 6 years old with good tread. Had 15,517 miles on them. Just did not trust them anylonger due to their age.)

--Check the tongue lock plate that secures it to the ball for wear.

Regards,

Peter J.

[Ron Green]

Also make sure you have a means of getting the trailer off the ground to change the tire. I have a 3 1/2 ton floor jack anchored down in the trailer. The jack or pull up blocks should be weight rated for both the trailer and its contents. Have adequate orange cones, signs something to alert approaching traffic.

A friend and I were coming home from the Hagerstown meet and he had a flat. His trailer design had the spare in the floor under the car. We had to unload his 39 Caddy to get the tire out. Not fun on an interstate with vehicles flying by at 80 plus. He now has one spare that is easily accessible.

Also when hooking up with someone trailering to a meet have a set of walkie talkies. These can help you get in and out of lanes, discuss directions and you both can keep a look out for the wackos that seem to have a magnetic pull toward trailers and their tow mules. Plus the wife's can chit chat about how much they love car shows.

[West Peterson]

I'm guessing that there was no way in your friend's case to get the trailer down to the next exit, but usually with just a flat, you should be able to get to the next exit, if not all the way to a service plaza, easily on three wheels/tires albeit at a much reduced speed.

We make sure that the wheel size and bolt pattern on the truck are the same as that on the truck, so the spare on the truck will work. We have found that the 16.5-inch wheels/tires have given us hardly any problems. One spare has been more than adequate for the eight wheels on the ground.

[Ron Green]

Not even close to a exit unfortunately. Sometimes if a tire separates it will take the other tire out. You would really have to be careful driving on a flat especially fully loaded. I always carry 3 spares.

It is sometimes difficult matching the truck wheel bolt pattern to a trailer and usually the class ratings (weight allowance) is different.

Thought some tire shops will repair a trailer tire with a plug be careful. A repair to close to the edge (within 1") of the tire is not allowed as they typically don't hold up and can fly apart at speed.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ron Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also make sure you have a means of getting the trailer off the ground to change the tire. I have a 3 1/2 ton floor jack anchored down in the trailer. The jack or pull up blocks should be weight rated for both the trailer and its contents. Have adequate orange cones, signs something to alert approaching traffic. </div></div>

Ron, when you say "pull up blocks" are you referring to pieces of wood that you simply drive the trailer's good tire up onto which raises the flat tire off the ground?

A friend of mine told me that method is the easiest and safest way to change a trailer flat tire.

Obviously the wood must be strong enough and wide enough to provide a stable surface for the trailer and it's contents.

The wood is also lighter than a HD Floor jack and has multiple other uses.

I have used this wood to support my ramp door when the ground was uneven any number of times. Also used it to provide support for the hitch jack on soggy ground.

I have my trailer spare tire mounted on an inside wall of the trailer next to the curbside door right above the winch/interior light battery.

This way I do not have any access problems getting to the spare when needed.

[Ron Green]

Either wood or they make a block you pull up onto. I also use wood however the jack comes in handy for changing tires on the truck.

I use a jack to level the trailer if we are sleeping in it as I recently put a removable living space in the front. A few times a year we are in the middle of nowhere. Don't jack the trailer to high especially if it falls off the blocks and the wife is sound asleep.

[R W Burgess]

Earl Beauchamp has had many tire problems in the past, so he has ordered a set of these Denman Tires for his trailer. He says they are guaranteed for 5 years. Check it out.

http://www.denmantire.com/catalog/22.pdf

Wayne

[Paul Dobbin]

I didn't get an opinion from the "New Forum", so I'll ask here.

I usually tow with a Motorhome and think I'm pretty good at it. I tow either an enclosed car hauler or an open aluminum car trailer (my preferrred choice).

Now I would like to be able to tow either with other than the motorhome and I'm selling my extened cab pickup and want a Tahoe or Yukon with a short wheel base that will fit in my garage.

I've been told that a short wheel base is a nightmare to tow with. So, what do the experts think??????

Anybody have an opinion? And rational.

[Bob Kinker]

I have found that the longer wheelbase tow vehicles tow much better. Also, the heavier the tow vehicle the better. I had an F-250 short bed, extended cab that towed fair, traded it in on an extended cab, long bed F-350 and there is a world of difference . I'm sold on the longer, heavier tow rig!

[R W Burgess]

Paul, I did answer in the New Forum. Here's my response below....very similar to Bob's!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where is everybody?

OK Paul, I'm no expert by any means, but here's what I do know. The longer the wheelbase, the better the tow vehicle will handle.

I've seen and heard many people say a Tahoe tows just fine. It probably depends on how heavy the loaded trailer is. Since I'm sure you've had many miles of towing experience, you and I both realize that the weight moving qualities of the stabilizer bars make a world of difference in how your vehicle handles and stops.

Now, let's hear it from the real experts!

Wayne </div></div>

[Guest imported_Matt M, PA]

I'll put my .02 in...I towed for 10 years with a full size Ford Bronco, trailer tow package, 351 automatic. I can't say I ever had a "real" problem. Obviously, this is a very short wheelbase vehicle.

My trailer is a 22' enclosed.

In 2005, the Bronco found a new home as I wanted to get one of the last year Excursions. Agreed, this is based on a Super Duty, compared to a F150 series...much more engine 400 V10 compared to 351 V8.

The biggest difference is the amount of "correction" needed with the WD hitch. I still use the WD hitch, but do not need anywhere near the same amount of assistance.

Braking is another area that is much better...a bigger vehicle is equipped with bigger brakes.

Wheelbase too helps keep things going straight with less steering wheel correction. I still use sway control on the highways.

One big help to any towing vehicle is the Roadmaster Active Suspension set-up. I installed this on the Excursion and wow what a difference. Unloaded...better cornering...a bit more control...but it did not harm the ride quality. Towing is much improved too. The RAS is a bolt-on coil spring that mounts in line above your rear leafs.

Back on topic...a "nightmare" to tow with a Tahoe? I can;t speak for that...but I'd bet a Suburban...if that would fit in your garage would be better. My stubby little Bronco took my trailer everywhere for a decade...but I am much more comfortable with the bigger rig.

One other note...a shorter wheelbase can make the tail wag the dog more than a longer wheelbase vehicle would allow.

A friend of mine said it best....the most important vehicle you own is behind you, the second most important is towing it....don't skimp on safety.

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A friend of mine said it best....the most important vehicle you own is behind you, the second most important is towing it....<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">don't skimp on safety</span></span>. </div></div>

Great answer, Matt!

Thanks!

Wayne

[jrbartlett]

I have a friend who spun a Tahoe/trailer combination going down a steep hill. He parked the Tahoe and went back to using a longer-wheelbase tow vehicle.

[MCHinson]

Here is what I posted under the "Do I need Stabilizer Bars" question...

From my experience, it depends on exactly what you are towing on the trailer and it depends on what you are towing it with.

For example, I can pull my enclosed trailer with a Model A Phaeton in it in heavy winds behind a full size long wheel base pickup without an anti-sway bar without any problem. If I want to pull that same combination any distance with my 2003 Chevy Tahoe, I have to use an anti-sway bar.

A Suburban would be better than a Tahoe, but this vehicle has to double as an everyday driver for my wife and she can't seem to handle parking a Suburban.

For me, The Tahoe works fine with a weight distribuiting hitch and an anti-sway bar. It is scary without the anti-sway bar.

[charlier]

I have a 20 ft, enclosed car trailer (~ 5200-5400 lbs loaded) that I tow with a Toyota 4Runner (body on frame SUV).

The 4Runner came standard with a weight distributing hitch and I added sway control.

The combination of the WD hitch & sway control make the 4Runner a competent tow vehicle even though it has a somwehat short wheelbase.

I use a Prodigy brake controller which does an excellent job handling the braking duties.

I agree with other's here that a longer wheelbase tow vehicle may be a better choice for towing longer, heavier trailers.

One thing I have noticed in my travels is that there appears to be a fairly large number of longer wheel base trucks towing trailers that are not using the proper

equipment (ie WD hitch & sway control) and/or are not loaded properly.

Wish I had money for each one of these "big trucks" that I have seen on the roads that is sagging and swaying under the load of the trailers they are towing.

I simply give them PLENTY of room because they are an accident waiting to happen that I want to avoid being involved in.

FYI, I have always been told by every single person who tows that having the trailer brakes set properly and keeping them maintained is VERY IMPORTANT.

Having a tow vehicle with good brakes is important but one should not rely on the tow vehicle brakes for stopping the trailer on a daily basis.

That is what the trailer brakes are there for. Tow vehicle brakes should be able to handle stopping the trailer (in the event of a trailer brake failure) but that is all.

BTW, when I am towing I get interesting reactions from professional truck drivers when they see my rig at turnpike plazas, etc.

When I tell them I seldom feel a thing when I am passed by a tractor trailer they are amazed.

They seemed shocked when I tell them I have encountered 40 mph cross-winds and have felt nothing more than a very gentle "nudge".

[Ron Green]

I used to tow the same 24' trailer / car combination with a Suburban and it was dangerous. Not enough power, to short of wheelbase and inadequate braking. Towing was beating the Suburban to death. Same trailer car behind a 4 door pickup and you don't even know it is there.