Still doing it!!!!

[Guest gdiwicker]

Hey All,

Ryan here. Well for those of you that advised me before, sorry about the repost. My 64 is still dying while driving. It dies after about ten minutes of driving. This is what has been done:

Changed the fuel filter

Checked for blockage of the rubber vent hose

Checked for the stainless carb plate

Cleaned the carb, vaccuum tested it

changed the spark plugs and wires

Compression tested

Cleaned the Distributor Cap and Coil

I got a bit of advice from another gearhead. As the car heats up, the ignition coil might be getting too hot and thats why the car runs poorly after about ten minutes. What do you guys think?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Ryan

http://s263.photobucket.com/albums/ii139/gdiwicker/?albumview=slideshow

[jimtash]

Replace the coil and see if that helps. Also, what kind of ignition are you running. Stock points or aftermarket? You might have to replace the parts inside the distributor.

I doubt it's a fuel issue unless the car is vapor locking.

[Guest gdiwicker]

It is a MSD electronic. How can I tell if it is vapor locking?

[Guest Gee_Rydes]

My question would be:

Does it just flat die like the key was turned off or does it stumble like it is running out of gas?

Can you keep it running even though it is having trouble?

What has to happen before it is normal again? Cool down? Just restart as normal? other?

[jimtash]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gdiwicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is a MSD electronic. How can I tell if it is vapor locking?

</div></div>

It's when the gas turns in vapor due to heat. In turn, it stalls the engine because it's not getting any fuel. Only way to get the engine running again is to let the gas cool down.

If I were you, I'd think about going back to the stock ignition and see if that takes care of the problem.

[Guest gdiwicker]

"Does it just flat die like the key was turned off or does it stumble like it is running out of gas?

Can you keep it running even though it is having trouble?

What has to happen before it is normal again? Cool down? Just restart as normal? other? "

It does both. If I feel her about to die, I put her in neutral or park and the higher idle keeps it from dying. Also, I have found if I do that while I'm driving and give it some gas, it will backfire. I have to let it sit a while. For instance, I took her out today after letting her get hot, rewireing the choke to the fuse block, adjusting the carb and the fast idle screw. She was running fine until I got her in the garage and the same thing happened. I can start it right back up, but as soon as I put her in gear, she stumbles, runs rougher than before and then dies.

Is there any way to test the functionality of the MSD without changing back to the stock distirbutor? I don't have the stock one and would like to rule that possibility out without having to buy the stock iginition.

[jimtash]

Call MSD and ask them. They might be able to help you solve your problem over the phone.

[Jim Cannon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gdiwicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I feel her about to die, I put her in neutral or park and the higher idle keeps it from dying. Also, I have found if I do that while I'm driving and give it some gas, it will backfire. I have to let it sit a while. For instance, I took her out today after letting her get hot, rewiring the choke to the fuse block, adjusting the carb and the fast idle screw. She was running fine until I got her in the garage and the same thing happened. I can start it right back up, but as soon as I put her in gear, she stumbles, runs rougher than before and then dies. </div></div>

If you give it some gas it will backfire. Out of the exhaust pipe? A loud bang?

Or out of the carb, under the hood, a bit muffled by the air filter?

Because those are symptoms of two different things. Backfire out the exhaust pipe is due to unburned fuel, often ignition is misfiring. When I was in High School, before cars had catalytic converters, you could run down the street at 30 mph, keep foot on gas, turn key off for a few seconds and then turn key back on. All that unburned fuel in the exhaust system would create a very loud backfire BANG! We blew out more mufflers that way...

Backfire out carb is usually (but not always) a very lean mixture, indicates running out of fuel or massive vacuum leak. There are exceptions to both of the above, but they often help you to look in the right direction.

I had a bad condenser in my '29 Ford (conventional points ignition) that caused it to misfire, especially at idle. It would backfire out the exhaust pipe really badly when it got hot. A new condenser fixed that problem right up.

[Reatta Man]

If it runs fine until it gets hot, and dies at highway speed, that really sounds like a dying fuel pump.

Next time it dies, remove the air cleaner assembly, look down the throat of the carb as you pull the throttle linkage back. If you don't see two streams of gas shooting down the primary air inlets, the fuel pump is dead. If you do see fuel shooting down the carb, your problem is definitely ignition.

Joe

[RivNut]

Joe,

Do you mean accelerator pump? Part of the carb? The fuel pump will not work if the engines not running.

Ed

[Jim Cannon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RivNut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Joe,

Do you mean accelerator pump? Part of the carb? The fuel pump will not work if the engines not running.

Ed </div></div>

I think he is assuming that, with a faulty fuel pump, the engine runs until the carb is dry and then dies. So at that point if you look in the carb and work the accelerator, the pump would be dry and you'd see no squirt of fuel.

I don't think this will happen though. I think there will be enough residual fuel in the accelerator pump circuit to give you a shot or two. Carb might be low on fuel but accelerator pump will still squirt.

And the engine always starts right back up. No cranking required to refill the carb bowl.

Most common fuel pump failure mode is a split diaphragm spilling raw fuel directly into your crankcase. Not heat sensitive.

[lrlforfun]

OK Riviera People: I always dropped the tank and checked for debris. The car runs and the pump sucks the gas, then gets clogged from whatever in the gas tank. It's a quick and easy job to drop the tank. Mitch.

[Guest REX STALLION]

I`m with Mitch, these are old cars,try simple things first. Make sure you have a clean fuel supply ;tank , lines,filters etc

[Steve Boivin]

Check your vacuum.........

Steve

[Guest gdiwicker]

I have moved the coil to the firewall and road tested it today. After arriving at a friend's house with no problems, it wouldn't start when I came back to it in 30 minutes. I came armed with a coil, and it was still having the same problem. I tested for 12V and that was ok. I checked the ground and even removed some paint to make absolutely sure of a good contact. Any ideas? Is there anything I can do to check for overheating of the coil from the distributor or other solutions to overheating from the distributor? Any other magic bullets?

[Guest simplyconnected]

You're on the right track. Backfire isn't caused by starving fuel. For my money, it's spark related, probably inside your distributor. It's also heat related, which means something is expanding (moving).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gdiwicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is a MSD electronic. How can I tell if it is vapor locking?

</div></div>

I hate to say, but you need your MSD checked out. Sometimes those pickup coils overheat and quit (on all cars). Then sometime later, they work.

Dave

[Guest gdiwicker]

Hey All,

Jim and I narrowed the problem down to the MSD distributor. I sent it off and the prognosis is that the mother board had shorted out. MSD replaced it and the gear (67$ plus s/h) and advised me to ground to the block and nothing made out of aluminum. It was grounded underneath the coil bracket to the intake manifold. Is the intake made from aluminum? Anyother suggestions on where to ground it to on the block?

I couldn't resist and took it out after I got it running and timed. I still want to adjust the fuel mix perfectly and get the idle set right at 550. What tools do I need to set the idle speed?

[RICK YOUNG]

There have been enough posts on forums over the past few years to keep me from putting any type of Electronic Ignition on my B63. We use them quite successfully on ol' gasser farm tractors, but they seem to continually cause issues on classic cars. I would go back to the Dist & points.

[Bill Stoneberg]

"Because those are symptoms of two different things. Backfire out the exhaust pipe is due to unburned fuel, often ignition is misfiring. When I was in High School, before cars had catalytic converters, you could run down the street at 30 mph, keep foot on gas, turn key off for a few seconds and then turn key back on. All that unburned fuel in the exhaust system would create a very loud backfire BANG! We blew out more mufflers that way..."

Jim we used to do that on Saturday mornings while passing the golf course. We probably ruined more then 1 or 2 shots that way. That is till someone told my dad....

[RivNut]

GDWICKER,

To answer the question from your post of 5/09, "No." The intake is made of cast iron and the coil bracket it not aluminum. Your original ground was good; that's usually where the resistor is grounded on a conventional points system. I've heard good stuff about Crane's breakerless ignition that takes the place of your points. The biggest problem that the breakerless systems have it if there's too much play in the distributor shaft; this is especially true for the Petronix units.

Ed

[Guest Riviera66]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RivNut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The biggest problem that the breakerless systems have it if there's too much play in the distributor shaft; this is especially true for the Pertronix units.

Ed</div></div>

Agreed. And I just won't put another Petronix in a car... fooled once with poor quality, never again.

My success has been with Lectric Limited's Stealth Edition kit... pricier than Pertronix, but quite bullet proof and ultra simple / totally hidden from view.

http://www.lectriclimited.com/mainpage.html

Darwin Falk

ROA#2077

[Guest gdiwicker]

Ed, thanks for the info. The MSD tech guy said the ground was bad and that shorted it out. Yeah right.

Darwin, thanks for the recommedation. I'll drive with the MSD until it gives me problems *knock on wood* and bookmark this company.