Willing A Classic Car After Death

[Chacheska]

I'm a single male who owns classic cars. I have no children or wife to will my cars to. I have a handful of friends in the same position I'm in. I'm sure there are many other members who are single with no children to leave their cars to. I'm sure there are also many members who, for one reason or another, don't want to leave their cars to their kids or relatives. A museum is always a good choice but I would be interested to know if any club members have ever considered, or would consider, entering into a reciprocity of wills. To clarify, two members enter into an agreement whereupon each owner of a classic wills their classic to the other owner. Age wouldn't necessarily be a factor. People can die at any age for a number of reasons. Cars may or may not be of equal value. The important thing is that both parties would be happy owning the other person's classic. This could also be a way for a person to obtain a car they might not have otherwise been able to buy either because of rarity or affordability. Death is inevitable but our cars 'live' on. This would be one way of keeping these cars in the hands of hobbyists and collectors who truly appreciate them. I would be interested to hear what other people think about this idea. I own 6 classics and two non classics. Maybe there are 8 like minded people out there. Looking forward to everyone's thoughts.

[barry22]

You're very noble in thinking about what to do what your collector cars before heading off to the hereafter and you are correct that there are many single men who have fine automobiles, but are without a wife and children and for one reason or another rather not leave them to relatives. Before thinking about donating your cars to a museum or a total stranger, first consider friends, associates, or even that neighborhood kid who always just liked to look at your vehicles. The idea of a museum donation might seem enticing, but most museums are run by an individual who assigns himself as president of the organization at a six figure salary. They obtain funding for their museum by charging admission to see the cars you have gladly shown for free. The museums make a habit of selling off cars on a regular basis to make sure money is available for the president's salary and for the salaries of their friends and relatives who they hire. These people live off the generosity of car donors. They will entice you with the prospect of a generous tax deduction, but wait, shouldn't that only be if you're still alive? For that matter, wouldn't you be better off selling the car outright at a higher price than what a tax deduction would amount to. I believe selling or giving cars to like-minded friends is a good way to addresss the "what to do what these cars after I'm gone" question.

[Chacheska]

Thank you for the reply, Barry. I was wondering when a CCCA member would finally reply. The AACA site has generated over a dozen replies already. I was hoping to get more feedback from CCCA members since 6 of my 8 pre-war cars are full Classics. I have a very small family. No kids, wife, brothers or sisters. Only 2 cousins. One of them is 10 years older and the other is two years younger. Haven't seen them in years. No local friends interested in the hobby. The handful of out of town collector friends I have don't seem interested in a reciprocity will. I never really considered the museum route. I'm self employed so there are no associates and any neighborhood kids are only interested in text messaging and muscle cars. That's why I thought of the reciprocity angle. That way two people who have a true love of the hobby and the great cars of the Classic era would have a mutual appreciation for the cars and one would benefit from the other's demise. I'd rather see my cars go to someone else who appreciates them as much as I do but would also like to find someone who feels the same. Ideally I'd like to find 8 like minded people so that everyone could have a reasonable expectation of getting some of the cars rather than leaving all 8 to a single individual. When you get a chance read one of the replies I got on 3/6/08 on the AACA site by Matt. He researched the legalities of entering into a reciprocity will and posted quite a lengthy but well thought out reply. Thanks again for the response. I hope more people will post their opinions.

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

Your proposal is an interesting one. Under the right circumstances, it might be an appropriate thing to do with your car. Imagine the thrill of a younger member receiving a car that would otherwise be well beyond their means. It doesn’t get much better than that.

On the other hand CCCA has a very fine museum in Hickory Corners, MI. It has two rolls. The first task is to present the cars and the story of the Classic Era to the general public as well as the automotive hobbyist of today and the future. Its second is to be a repository for the history of the Club. Your donation can help make that happen and ensure that the Museum continues to do its job well past our lifetimes.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am the current President of the Museum. I am biased, but I think the idea of donating a car or cars deserves some serious consideration. As a side note, it is a lot more fun to donate and enjoy the feeling of doing something good while you are alive.

For more about the CCCA Museum, visit www.cccamuseum.org

[Chacheska]

Hi, Chuck. Have been to the museum three times. I'm very aware of it's existence and purpose. I was looking for a more unusual/different idea. It's probably going to be hard to find other willing participants to do a reciprocating will so the museum idea is still a viable alternative. I figured the will idea was a good way for hobbyists to get other hobbyist's cars without having to actually buy them. I'm 53 so hopefully I'll have plenty of time to find willing parties but the early going isn't proving to be fruitful. I got quite a few responses from the AACA but no takers yet. Thanks for responding, Chuck. The museum is definitely on my list if the will idea doesn't materialize.

Karl

[ericmac]

This is a topic I have wrestled with as well. I have one sister and a neice and nobody is remotely interested in cars, let alone Classics. I would love to talk more about you about this topic and maybe we can help each other out.

Eric

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

I'm strongly in favor of perpetuating the hobby. If that means giving your car to a fellow enthusiast who will appreciate it, then so be it. It is a wonderful idea.

If that doesn't work out, then the CCCA Museum is a worthy recipient. There are quite a few others as well. Most importantly, let's keep the hobby alive.

[Jon Riley]

Karl:

As a relatively young CCCA member still saving for his first "Full Classic," I think that this is a great idea.

I searched for the reply from "Matt" on the AACA website, but came up short.

What you are trying to do is not too complicated (legally), and most estate attorneys will be able to draft the required documents. Jurisdiction (if you and the recipient of your chattel [the cars] are in different states) might get complicated. But nothing a competent attorney could not handle. After reading your posts, the complicated part is finding the recipient(s).

However, I would echo Chuck's comments regarding donating to the CCCA museum. My initial exposure to these great cars was at the Gilmore/CCCA museum. As a kid I remember going to the Duesenberg Experience in 1987 (I was 11). In fact, my first job, at age 16, was at the Gilmore museum. I have been hooked ever since and have been at the museum on the first weekend in June (The Experience) since 1993. What I am trying to say is that even if your cars end up in a museum, they still will promote the hobby and the pursuit of these great cars to a younger generation.

[Matt Harwood]

That's me. Here's the link:

http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Main/112342/Number/492525#Post492525

Hope it helps.

[Chacheska]

Well, I haven't checked the posts in about a week or so but I see I may have a couple of interested parties! To Jonathon; since I have 8 pre-war cars I doubt if I'll find 8 other 'willing' participants so it may turn out that I'll enter into a reciprosity will with some of my cars and donate the others. Eric and Matt; here's my e-mail address below. Contact me directly and we can talk. Same applies to anyone else who may be interested. Cheers!

chacheska@verizon.net

[auburn salon]

you are on a topic that i have talked about for many years. i'm also 53 ahve been a member of the acd club for many years(24),and over the years belonged to the sdc club ccca etc. at one time i belonged to 14 clubs including the gravely lawn tractor club.i drive my cars far more than almost anyone i know.one day i drove my new auburn 355 miles and it was 15 degrees for a high.naturally i don't have a heater.the cars will also see downtown chicago if the mood strikes me.i love my cars admire my friends, and have a hard time thinking one day they will not be out...i also have no close relatives, but do have many close friends in the hobby. i have considered many times willing the cars to them but:#1 they are somewhat to significantly older than i. #2 while they admire my cars, many of them could go out and buy them tomorrow. (i've sacrificed a normal life to own my cars. i never made much money in my life, but i sure know what i enjoy, and i've gone for it.) consequently when i think of willing my cars i've always looked at them hoping they would go to someone signifcantly younger, and also less affluent. however your concept of willing them to established enthusiasts is a good one,and i'm interested.

[Chacheska]

Hi, Mason. You sound like a kindred spirit. I, too, don't make much money and have sacrificed a lot of other things in my life to own the cars I love. You sound like the perfect candidate to consider for something like this especially since we're the same age. Actually, from a receiving point of view, we'd both ideally be better off getting into this kind of arrangement with older members to stand a better chance of actually benefitting from this type of arrangement. If you're interested we should talk about it. I'd be interested in knowing what classics you own. Send me an e-mail at chacheska@verizon.net and we can discuss it. Thanks for replying to the topic!

[Guest prof pat]

My wife and I have talked about what she should do with my antique cars after I am gone, at 59, one must look forward.

I talked with my local museum, about the gift of one of my cars that was purchased new here in 1936, and actualy lived in one of the current museum buildings most of its life. But, when I required that it not be sold for a minumin of ten years after the bequest, they refused, and so did I.

There has to be a better way.

Pat

professorpat@hotmail.com

[Guest Chuck Conrad]

The CCCA Museum is always interested in donations of cars, Full Classics or not. If it is a CCCA Classic and fits in our collection, we will keep it and display it for a very long time. If it is not a CCCA Classic, we will keep it for a minimum of three years so the donor may take the allowable IRS tax deduction. Frequently these cars are displayed elsewhere on the Gilmore Museum Grounds.

After the obligatory three years, if the car is not in keeping with the museum's direction, we may elect to find a new home for the car. We make every effort to find a GOOD home for the car. In this case everyone wins. The donor gets an allowable tax deduction and the satisfaction that he has helped his Club's Museum survive for future generations. The car gets a new home, and a new owner gets a great car to treasure.

There may be a better way, but this one is not too bad. For more info, visit the CCCA Museum web site, www.cccamuseum.org

[mrpushbutton]

Any credible museum (and the Gilmore is certainly that) has a collections policy that is stated up front: this is what we want/need to fulfill our collection, anything outside of this will be retained for the three-year period then deaccessioned (sold) to fund our collection priorities.

Everyone would like to think that museums will take uncle Harry's Plymouth Cranbrook Keller-box four-door sedan and love it forever, but each institution (hopefully) has a vision of what vehicles (or objects) best tell the story they want to tell. A good museum tells a story to those who are not already knowledgeable about the "thing" they are presenting.