2007 Hershey Show Sat.10/13

[Guest resq302]

I must agree that there seemed to be a lot more spectators there this year at the show field compared to last year. Maybe it was because there were so many vendors that left by Sat morning that no one could get any parts and figured they would not waste a trip and check out the show cars?

[1937hd45]

Here is a closeup of the front end on the Tommy Ivo car, love those wheel pants. Note the AACA Race Car Certification plaque, they always get highlighted in the magazine coverage these restorations get. Hope the National Awards Team took note of the car and Bruce gets to go to Philadelphia, the car deserves it IMO.

[Guest South_paw]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jaxops</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The crowds loved the car, and I really liked the drive in and out where the spectators lined the road the view the cars. That was almost parade-like and was a lot of fun. </div></div>

Jaxops was this you?

56 75 series Click here

More Hershey Pics click here

Nice car!

Lou

[R W Burgess]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> http://photos.aaca.org/data/564/medium/DSC02766.jpg</div></div>

Looks like JFK's old ride.

Man, Cadillac City on your picture web site....good job.

Wayne

[Guest wsfrison]

First: Bruce did the race car proving run on Friday morning with the dragster-AWESOME. Next: I believe that the cars entering the show could have used a road crossing from the car corral closer to the top of the hill, thereby avoiding vehicles leaving the green and orange fields.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While I am on the subject of parking, I thought this year was extremely tight parking as I could barely get out of my vehicle without having it rub doors with the car next to me, and I am a skinny 31 year old male</div></div>

Bear in mind that you had a new chairman in charge of setting up the showfield, and you had limited real estate. They did the best that they could do, and I'm sure they'll work to improve it next year. I would be willing to bet that the spaces between the vehicles isn't any tighter than if the vehicles were parked side by side in the parking lot at the Giant Center.

To your advantage, if the vehicles are that close together, it makes it a lot more difficult for the exterior, interior and chassis judges to look at your car close enough so that someone can complain about being 'knitpicked.'

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">God help us if it had been raining during the show as no one would have been able to safely get out of the mud hole without having to be towed out and then the possibly having damage occur from being yanked out of the mud</div></div>

Back in 2005 the show was on blacktop, and very few people brought their car out on the field when it was on blacktop, so the issues with mud wouldn't be there either. There were so many no shows that year that the region gave away the dash plaques to the judges.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Next, and maybe this is just my view but others have mentioned it as well, why is the show cars so far away from the center of the event?</div></div>

Do you really think that it would it make more sense to have the showfield in the center of the event?? On Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday you'd have to walk across the vacant showfield to get to another flea market field?? How much sense does that make??

Do you want someone walking by with carts and carrying fenders past your car (with the possibility of scratching it) to go from one flea market field to another??

If you hauled your vehicle into the meet on a trailer and parked in the designated trailer parking, the trailer parking is 10 times worse than the showfield ever thought of being, and anything that you would've gotten on your car was already on it before it left the trailer parking area.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When my father and I went to go shopping through the vendors on Sat morning after our class was judged, it seemed like 90% of the vendors were gone from the swap meet and this was at 11 AM on Sat morning</div></div>

Bear in mind that a lot of the flea market vendors aren't in the Flea Market because of lot of those people are either looking at or judging your vehicle!! You would have a very difficult time telling a vendor who paid $70 per space that they had to be open and couldn't be allowed to look at vehicles. If the vendor happened to be a judge, it would take a lot longer to get your vehicle judged and you'd probably be sitting there until dark waiting for your car to be judged.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope this is just a temporary thing but if this trend continues, as much as I hate to say it, the Hershey meet might soon meet its demise as I see a downward spiral trend starting</div></div>

I don't see this happening. If the show does get smaller, it'll become a lot more manageable for everyone and the complaints that you currently have will go away. HERCO and the Derry Township are growing like many communities have, and you can't expect them to not develop their communities for the sake of a 4-day national meet. The developed property brings more tax revenue to the community than a flea market field, show field or parking lot brings during a 4-day period in October. Where the outlet mall, and a large portion of Hersheypark now sit used to be flea market field.

Should there be better accommodations for the handicapped and/or have mobility issues, absolutely!! Can things be done better, absolutely!! But the bottom line is that the show is too big, and they don't have the real estate to accomodate everything for everyone while pleasing everyone.

Despite your complaints, it is a lot easier to find problems than it is to find the solutions to them. In either case, the Hershey Region does a great job and perhaps you should take a step back and look at what they are doing. You're talking about one local Region that has to contend with national, HERCO and the Derry Township. Every year things change (sometimes at the last minute) and the Hershey Region gets forced to try to react and deal with things accordingly. Would your region be willing to take on that headache year after year after 50+ years??

[Guest imported_Packards1]

Do not forget that the vendors ARE AACA members. It is not them or us, WE are the AACA. I personally vend and set up tuesday morning and left at 15:00 on saturday. To stay open for you to browse after your car is judged when I have 500 mile to drive home would not make sense when all AACA members knew they could shop all week and not wait for the last couple of hours of the show. Guess what, I am a vendor AND I am an old car hobbiest. I have several cars that I enjoy greatly. I guess my real point is not making it look like the AACA car exhibitor should have any more preferance than another AACA member someone that works hard to bring the parts to the show to get the cars in show condition.

[Guest resq302]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While I am on the subject of parking, I thought this year was extremely tight parking as I could barely get out of my vehicle without having it rub doors with the car next to me, and I am a skinny 31 year old male</div></div>

Bear in mind that you had a new chairman in charge of setting up the showfield, and you had limited real estate. They did the best that they could do, and I'm sure they'll work to improve it next year. I would be willing to bet that the spaces between the vehicles isn't any tighter than if the vehicles were parked side by side in the parking lot at the Giant Center.

To your advantage, if the vehicles are that close together, it makes it a lot more difficult for the exterior, interior and chassis judges to look at your car close enough so that someone can complain about being 'knitpicked.'

</div></div>

I was not aware that there was a new chairman that was responsible for the set up of the show. I did not see that anywhere in the monthly magazine that comes out. For that, I am sorry if any of my comments were aimed directly at him, that was not my intention. As for parking space sizes at the show, the space that the Daytona in my class had to park was FAR from what a regular parking space would be in a regular parking lot. If this guy could have opened up his doors just a little bit to get out of his vehicle, it would have been a lot.

When the judges came around, the interior judge would not touch my door and had me open up the door and stand beside the car next to me holding my door so it would not hit the neighboring car. With the length of my doors, I am sure he was able to see well enough into the inside of my car. The chasis judge literally laid down on the ground and shimmied himself under the cars in our class and physically reached up with his arm under our cars. I really didn't complain about it as I know from the judging book they are only supposed to get down on one knee and look under. To me, I think that the chasis judge did a good job as if I could do that at our local regional shows, I would, but I am by the book. The exterior judge, I had to keep apologising to, as as I seemed to keep getting in his way to open up the doors for the interior judge.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">God help us if it had been raining during the show as no one would have been able to safely get out of the mud hole without having to be towed out and then the possibly having damage occur from being yanked out of the mud</div></div>

Back in 2005 the show was on blacktop, and very few people brought their car out on the field when it was on blacktop, so the issues with mud wouldn't be there either. There were so many no shows that year that the region gave away the dash plaques to the judges.</div></div>

Back in 2005, my father and I were there with his el camino going for his senior which we got. I think the whole issue of people not bringing their car out that year was due to the rainy weather.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Next, and maybe this is just my view but others have mentioned it as well, why is the show cars so far away from the center of the event?</div></div>

Do you really think that it would it make more sense to have the showfield in the center of the event?? On Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday you'd have to walk across the vacant showfield to get to another flea market field?? How much sense does that make??

Do you want someone walking by with carts and carrying fenders past your car (with the possibility of scratching it) to go from one flea market field to another??

If you hauled your vehicle into the meet on a trailer and parked in the designated trailer parking, the trailer parking is 10 times worse than the showfield ever thought of being, and anything that you would've gotten on your car was already on it before it left the trailer parking area.

</div></div>

My view of this was looking back at years past where the show cars were in a centrally located area of the show/swap meet. In 2005, the show cars were next to the Giant Center, not at the farthest end of the field like it was an after thought. I know last year there did not seem to be that many spectators walking through and looking at the cars, maybe because no one knew where the show cars were that year? Prior to the show cars being parked next to the Giant Center, weren't they next to the Hershey Park Stadium? Again, fairly close to the central focal point of the swap meet.

I can understand vendors wanting to go look at the show cars but chances are, the vendors have more than one person at their spot and they could rotate out to go see the show cars. I also know that it takes time to break down the set up and then drive the unknown amount of hours home. I have traveled to long distance shows also with my car and have had times where it has taken me about 4 hrs to reach home. My parents and grandparents started bringing me out to Hershey Park every year once I got out of school for the year and it pretty much became a yearly tradition untill I got out of school. Hershey Park is so much cleaner than the closer Six Flags Great Adventure we have here in NJ and the people are that much friendlier in PA it seems also. So I know how much Hershey Park has expanded due to the new rides and attractions and also having some of the land get developed on. My profession is law enforcement and I am also a volunteer fireman so I know a lot about stuff changing suddenly and at the last minute. Unfortunately, things like that sometimes happen and I very well understand that.

Packards1 -

Like I mentioned, I work in law enforcement and I have a now 10 month old daughter who stayed home with my wife so I could be able to go to the show. We arrived on Friday and by the time we got there, the majority of the vendors were closed or closing up and we were lucky to get our registration packet so we did not have to wait on Sat in line. I would like to thank you for staying open on Sat till 1500 hrs (3 PM) as that still gave people a chance to shop even if they were only able to make it a day trip there on Sat. Again, I understand that some vendors make a long trip to get there but so do the people who go to purchase parts and see the vendors. Personally, there are not that many vendors for our two vehicles as when we first started getting parts for them years ago, the majority of the vendors told me that "your vehicle is too new and we dont have anything for that". This is where ebay has been an asset to me as well as forums like Chevelles.com and Dodgecharger.com. Places like those allow people to get the parts that they need. I am not saying that I was upset by the vendors telling me that my car was too new. Actually, I had to laugh at them since I considered any car over 25 years old to be just that... OLD for a car. A new car would be something like a 5-10 year old car. I also understood that the majority of the cars and vendors a couple years ago (and currently) predominantly sell parts for the cars from the early part of the 1900s which is still nice to see. My whole point about the vendors lacking in appearance on Sat was that my father and I were trying to get a blasting cabinet and there were hardly any tool vendors around or left. In trying to locate these tool vendors, we noticed a large amount of empty spaces at 1100 hrs which seemed quite odd for me as there seemed to be plenty of vendors around at that time last year and in years past. Just an observation, thats all.

Again, I am not trying to belittle the Hershey region or the AACA National in anyway as I know it takes a lot of time and effort to run such a large scale event. This year had to be probably the worst one for me even though I got the award I was going for, it just seemed to leave a bad taste in my mouth and fill me with disappointment where as in years past, I was always glad I came to the Hershey show.

[novaman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can understand vendors wanting to go look at the show cars but chances are, the vendors have more than one person at their spot and they could rotate out to go see the show cars. </div></div>

In my case there are three of us at hershey on my spaces. My parents and myself. My mom , if you asked her if a part fit an "X", or if we had anything to fit a "Y" wouldn't have a clue. My Dad and I couldn't help you as both of us are judging. I know of a number of husband/wife judges and a few that I know are vendors. I guess you wouldn't mind if the judges simply rotated through the classes so that they would have time to return to the far end of the red field (just over a mile from the show field enterance)and let the other judge on the space get to the show field to judge thier class. Heaven forbid you'd be in class 35, you might get judged by Thursday.

After the show, I made a 9 hour drive. Was up since 5:30am arrived at parents 18 hours later and got to my place about an hour later after dropping the trailer and unloading ice

chest due to malfunctioning refridgertor.

It was mentioned about the show being on asphalt and referance was indcaded about it being on the green field and the green & orange field vendors being on the golf course. That would leave a half mile gap between fields. Also, how would you arrange the rows on a course that isn't reaonable straight. You'd be pushing having more aisles than vendor spaces.

I've added a satillite image of the area. I propose you (or anyone else)try to figure out where to place all the vendors, the show cars, make all the flea market fields convent to each other for tues-fri crowds and put the show on Sat. Remember that some vendors like myself ar 10,000 lbs (dually pick with slide-in camper plus trailer) or more and a golf cart bridge most likely ain't going to hold us even if we would fit width wise. Also, make it so people don't need to cross Herhseypark Drive and RT 39 more than twice (going for the day and returning to go home) for saftey.

Image is older and don't show the roads crossing the old airport along with the related fencing.

[hwellens]

I think all agree there will be more cars in the future and only so much real estate. Why not have the car show 2 days? Less time getting on the field, more space between cars, more help per day, etc.

[jaxops]

Yes, that was us. Great photo Southpaw. Thank you!

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was not aware that there was a new chairman that was responsible for the set up of the show. I did not see that anywhere in the monthly magazine that comes out</div></div>

That is a region issue, so that wouldn't go into the national magazine. If you belong to a local Region, does your region put issues going on from with your region in the national magazine?? In the case of my region, if you don't go to the meetings you aren't aware of what's going on, and sometimes issues get addressed with the board that are never made public knowledge.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Back in 2005, my father and I were there with his el camino going for his senior which we got. I think the whole issue of people not bringing their car out that year was due to the rainy weather</div></div>

You're right, but bear in mind that if people aren't going to bring their cars out on wet blacktop, then the issue of driving on wet grass is immaterial.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My view of this was looking back at years past where the show cars were in a centrally located area of the show/swap meet</div></div>

You're right, but you have to remember that the blue and yellow fields are now gone, the Townhip of Derry ran a road right through the middle of what used to be the White field, and in order to do that, the local region put all of the vendors at the Giant Center. In order to keep all of the vendors, put everything on the same side of the road, and keep pedestrian traffic down so that the local people can still get through their town, the show field had to be moved. With Route 39 being a four lane state highway, I'm sure that the state of Pennsylvania also had something to say about what was being done as well.

Given the hand that the Hershey Region has been dealt with, they have moved three flea market fields, they have gotten everything on the same side of the road, all of the flea market vendors are out of the mud, and I don't believe that they had to lose any flea market vendors. I'd say overall that the Hershey Region has adapted very well to please everyone. Are things perfect?? <span style="font-weight: bold">NO!!</span> and they never will be. In order to make things perfect you'd have to:

1. Get more land - where??

2. Reduce the number of vendors - who do you turn away??

3. Reduce the number of show cars - I wouldn't want to tackle that...

As I've said before, the designated trailer parking (off of 39) is terrible. The only difference between that area and the old Yellow Field is the Swatara Creek is on the opposite end of the field.

I hope I didn't come across as being abrasive, but bear in mind that the Hershey Region puts up with this every year, and they really have done the best that they could do with what they've got to work with. They know what is right and wrong every year and don't need to be blasted on the forum. As for the issue with the car corral and pedestrian traffic, we got on the field early so we weren't victim of that problem, but we were made aware of it by a Hershey Region member that we know. That issue was already being discussed before the show was over.

All I'm saying is to take a step back and look at what the Hershey Region is doing, and how things are being done. I think that if my region was put in the same situation, we couldn't do any better, and would've gotten sick of doing all of this a long, long time ago. Most of the problems that I see with everything that is wrong deals with HERCO and greed. As long as we all want to come to Hershey, HERCO has us all by the short hairs, they know it, and they're taking advantage of it. The Hershey Region has to play the game like the rest of us, yet they seem to be the poor S.O.B's that get stuck taking the blame.

[1937hd45]

Thanks for posting the aerial view, all these years I've thought the Green field was far larger than the Chocolate. Then again the Giant Center building did take away 1/3 of the space we once had.

[Guest resq302]

A half mile gap in between fields is nothing when you walk probably in excess of 10 miles combined going up and down all the isles at Hershey. You might remember the field that used to be for vendors below where the school is. I think that was the White field at the time. When I was there prior to bringing my cars to the show field trying to get parts, I had to walk all over the place just trying to find parts for my "new car" even though it was still over 30 years old. The thing is if there is a vendor that sells the brand part you need, you are going to go to that vendor no matter where he is located. Granted, my parents and I probably crossed Hershey Park Dr. multiple times going back and forth to vendors when it was across the street and there was around 5 different colored fields back when. The thing was that if you needed a part, you would look around to try and find it. It is nice that the Hershey region is trying to accomodate everyone and make it safer by having everything on one side of the road but if you look at it from my view, going by the satelite map, the show cars started out by the Hershey Park Stadium, then got moved next to the Giant Center. We are now currently on grass and even further away from the whole swap meet section. Where will we be moved to next? The property where the sewage treatment facility is? If you had the choice, would you park your vehicle that you have spent countless hours working on, cleaning, and detailing only to have it sink in the mud and then have some person who might care less about your car come and yank it out only to do damage trying to get it out of the mud? As for the comment about the golf cart bridge.... my car weighs close to 4000 lbs. I highly doubt that a golf car weighs anywhere close to what my car does with all of its cleaning supplies. So if the bridge is only rated for a golf cart, whoever decided the route for us to go over with our cars obviously was not thinking ahead.

Again, I am not trying to berate the Hershey Region or the national AACA. I am just trying to express some displeasure about what I noticed this year. Last year I was not too happy about having to park on the grass and then having to clean all the mud out from my wheel wells from parking on soggy ground. That was supposedly a "transition period and a ONE YEAR ONLY deal" in which it clearly was not. There were multiple publications in the bi-monthly magazine stating that the new area was approved for paving by HERCO and Derry Twp. Personally, after reading about all these new changes that were supposed to have been upgraded from last year, I feel that I have been lied to and I am sure that is what the general consensus of the other show car owners feel going by what I heard this year on the field.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think all agree there will be more cars in the future and only so much real estate. Why not have the car show 2 days?</div></div>I like that idea. If they did that I'd be able to show a car on one day, and judge on the second day. For others it would allow people to show or judge on both days.

Now for the questions....

1. Do you add another day onto the schedule for the second show, or do you cut into Friday??

- If you ran a show on Friday, you'd most likely cut down on the flea market vendors on Friday. Currently people are complaining about the lack of vendors on Saturdays. Right now you have the race car conditioning run and high wheeler demonstration taking place on Friday mornings. I'm sure the time could be moved, but I enjoy seeing that. This year was the first time in three years that this portion of the meet hasn't been cancelled out.

2. What about judges??

- You have some of the older members who are judges who refer to a lot of these vehicles as "used cars" that could jump ship on the second day and leave the second day with a severe shortage of judges. You also have to plan an extra day of judges breakfast which could have an impact on the auction that is normally done on Friday.

3. What about the awards??

- Do you spend the money to put on two awards banquets or do you make the owners of the older cars hang around an extra day to wait to see if they got their award??

Here's another thought....

Bring in the Flea Market vendors in on a Monday, run the show for the older cars on a Tuesday, and the newer cars on a Saturday. It would still give everyone three solid days of getting parts for the flea market, would thin out the show field to where it would be more managable, and you could still do separate awards ceremonies if you wanted to without it looking like it was back to back two days in a row.

[Guest resq302]

Ex98th,

-I thought the chairman for the event was on the national level, not regional. My mistake.

-As far as bringing a vehicle to wet pavement vs. wet/soggy grass. I know a lot more people would have brought their car to a show knowing it would have only gotten wet than to get wet, muddy, and possibly even sink and then have to be yanked out. With parking on asphalt or even gravel, chances are your vehicle will not sink or need to be towed out. Cleaning water off is a lot easier than getting mud out of cracks and crevices.

-I agree that most of the problems are in relation to greed by HERCO or someone else. Who exactly? I don't know as I am not in that region. I can only imagine what stress and grief the Hershey Region goes through trying to put this on. I am not trying to bash them as a group at all, just trying to express my displeasure since I have always had a really good time in years past. I did not complain last year about being on the grass since that area was supposed to be paved this year. Last year there were problems as people have stated. Lack of food and portatble toilets in the show field section left a lot to be disired and thankfully that was changed this year. Granted, there could have been more food vendors there but at least my food was still warm by the time I got back to my car as opposed to last year where I had cold coffee and a cold sandwich (both of which were hot at one point when I got them) after making the unknown distance hike from the Giant Center area back to my vehicle.

I agree, things will never be perfect but this year certainly seemed to be FAR from it as opposed to years past. The Hershey Region DOES deserve a lot of credit for putting such an event on however, I think that if we (as a club) do not voice our issues, the problems will just get swept under the carpet and the situation will continue to get worse. My local voluntter fire department puts on a Labor Day carnival and parade every year where we use the towns high school grounds for the carnival. Does the school restrict us from where we put the rides, games, and food? No. We have say as to what goes where. We are just using the grounds. This year we hosted the NJ State Exempts firemans association parade. We had around 80 towns showing up in attendance for marching, some of which bringing up to 5 pieces of fire apparatus. Try picturing where you could put around 400 fire trucks on a high school parking lot or field. We had to come up with shuttles and satelite parking for the fire trucks. Was it ideal? Not really but it was thought out. The saying in the firehouse is the same as the boy scouts.... Be Prepared! I guess my whole rant and displeasure is that it seems someone, either national or the local region, did not prepare well especially since they know how many vehicles are expected to show up.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: resq302</div><div class="ubbcode-body">-As far as bringing a vehicle to wet pavement vs. wet/soggy grass. I know a lot more people would have brought their car to a show knowing it would have only gotten wet than to get wet, muddy, and possibly even sink and then have to be yanked out. With parking on asphalt or even gravel, chances are your vehicle will not sink or need to be towed out. Cleaning water off is a lot easier than getting mud out of cracks and crevices.</div></div>

Resq302, I think there are a few people in this thread and possibly within the Hershey Region and National Club that might not understand this pavement vs wet/soggy/muddy grass sitruation. There are also a few posts in this thread and others threads that state or make it appear that in 2005 in the rain "very few people brought their car out on the field when it was on blacktop". These people might want to check their facts when making such statements. I did and the numbers are interesting. In 2005 there were 1,472 vehicles registered for the show. 550 or just over 37% were on the show field that day. Yes, there were a lot of show cars missing that day on a percentage or even numerical basis. However to say that 550 show vehicles is "very few people" is inaccurate at best and very misleading. When one looks at many of the other AACA Car Show Events it is difficult to find many events that even with great weather can surpass 550 cars in the rain at 2005 Hershey on blacktop.

With regard to Fall Hershey 2005 one has to wonder how many of the 922 no-shows were in trailers on the muddy trailer parking fields? For those people the blacktop show field at Hershey was not the issue. The issue was how to get show cars out of the trailer parking fields without getting them stuck or terribly dirty? For some owners the bigger issue may have been simply getting their trailers and tow vehicles out of those fields, period. No doubt a sizeable number of car owners made a judgment call that day with regards to the pros and cons of trying to get to the blacktop show field and if it was worth risking getting stuck, possible damage or having their vehicles get very, very muddy.

Now that the car show is on a grass field it would seem much more likely that significantly less than 550 cars would come out on a wet/soggy/muddy show field at Hershey. If/when that happens then one might say that "very few" show cars were on the field at Hershey.

Another thing to consider when looking at the 2005 show is where did the 550 cars on the field come from? One might think that most of the 550 cars were either driven to the show or were in car trailers on blacktop at hotels in the area. In both these cases there was no risk of getting stuck in mud or getting filthy dirty in mud since the show was on blacktop. In 2005 I was on the show field that day. The only reason I was there was because the show was on blacktop and my car could not get muddy or stuck in mud (my trailer was parked on blacktop that weekend).

Now let's talk about what happened with vendors in 2005.

The rains late that Thursday, all day Friday and part of Saturday chased MANY vendors away. Of those that did not leave Thursday Night or Friday in 2005, how many were actually open for business??? Not many that I saw and that includes those vendors with spots ON BLACKTOP. So, pray tell, why are vendors put on blacktop if they pack up and go home or are closed?? What good does it do for their customers who walked for HOURS in the rain that day only to find so many vendors closed or gone? I should know I walked for almost 6 hours in the rain in 2005 on Friday and I saw first hand how many vendors left and/or were closed. Can you blame vendors for not wanting to get their items wet?? No. So then why is it so important to have all the vendors on blacktop? Maybe someone can answer this?

Next, what about all the comments and complaints of all the walking involved with navigating the flea market? Ever year these comments and complaints come up and nothing appears to change. In looking at the guide to Hershey I purchased there seems to be little, if any, rhyme or reason as to how the flea market vendor fields are layed out. For instance, when I looked at "Ford" the book shows vendors of these products are located on Chocolate Field, Green Field, Orange Field and Red Field. Why is that? Why can't all the "Ford" vendors be placed in one area of one field?

Maybe I am missing something because organizing the fields by brand would appear possible.

Organizing the fields would save flea market shoppers HOURS OF TIME and MILES OF WALKING. It might also INCREASE SALES due to customers being able to more easily FIND what they are looking for instead of getting tired or running out of time and giving up. As AACA members continue to grow older this issue will continue to get worse if nothing is done about it.

[MCHinson]

I was not there in 2005, but in 2006 I had no problem with the grass showfield. I think Charlier may have a valid point about the trailer parking lot condition.

As I posted about this time last year, my only problem then was the mud in the trailer parking lot that I was in.

At the risk of really starting a heated discussion,

I wonder if it might free up some of the limited real estate at Hershey if there were a way to eliminate those "vendors" who are just using the pretext of vending for convenient parking. If those were eliminated, others who want to legitimately sell stuff could fill up the space efficiently and nobody would be walking past additional spaces needlessly.

And at the risk of REALLY making people mad, I have a suggestion about a way that this could be accomplished. I suspect that there are plenty of folks that would be happy to report those who are not actually selling anything. A system could be set up to notify those individuals that they have been identified as not appearing to be actually selling anything. They could then be required to submit a copy of their PA Sales Tax for that year before being allowed to return as a vendor at the swap meet the next year. There is even a convenient way for this information to be requested to be sent to the Hershey Region by the use of the form found at this link:

http://www.revenue.state.pa.us/revenue/lib/revenue/rev-467.pdf

(Now I guess I need to lay low for a day or so...)

[Restorer32]

Bear in mind that many of those spaces that are only used for parking and not for vending are likely being used by BUYERS. In my opinion the quickest way to put Hershey into a death spiral would be to enact too many rules and regulations. Am I to tell my 78 year old handicapped Mom, who has been coming to Hershey since 1969 or so and actually recruited a new member when she remarried, that she can no longer use one of my spaces to park on? I have been restoring for 30 years and have had Hershey spaces for 40 years. The time will likely come (hopefully not for quite some time)when I will turn the business over to my Son. Am I not to be allowed to use my spaces to visit with old friends? Hershey is so very special simply because it is an amorphous, ever changing but always fascinating event. Let's face it, these days buyers and sellers can almost always be more productive in a few hours on the internet than in 4 days at Hershey. Enact too many rules and regulations and you will have far less folks who actually vend, not less. Just my humble opinion of course.

[MCHinson]

OK, I am not laying quite low enough yet...

I am not advocating that at all... I am advocating eliminating the "vendors" who have spaces where there is a modern car parked in the space, with 4 or 5 rusty parts on the ground in front of the car with no vendor in sight for the entire event.

If those spaces were replaced with actual vendors, it would be a win for everybody in my opinion.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not advocating that at all... I am advocating eliminating the "vendors" who have spaces where there is a modern car parked in the space, with 4 or 5 rusty parts on the ground in front of the car with no vendor in sight for the entire event</div></div> MC, in all honesty some of the violators of this are former and even some current national officers. Next year if you look at the name on the space and then look through the list of previous and current national officers, you would be surprised. I'm not pointing fingers, but I am saying that you could find yourself p*$sing into the wind on this argument.

Some of the problems also stem from to people buying spaces and selling them off to make a profit.

Charlier, you need to read the entire post rather than accuse me of being misleading. I have made the point where regardless of where the showfield is located, the designated trailer parking is worse than any showfield that we've been on. According to your stats, over 60% of the show vehicles didn't show up in 2005. I'd consider that A LOT.

The trailer parking is terrible, it has been terrible, and probably won't change. If the region doesn't want to address it, then you'll have trailers scattered all around town creating a nuisance for everyone. Am I complaining, no. My thoughts are that the members of the region will be the ones who will have to hear from their neighbors about the car trailers being parked in every store parking lot, Chocolate Ave, clogging the hotel parking lots, etc.

[Guest imported_Packards1]

What you may not realize is that the tents you see in the flea market are torn down at the Carlisle show on Sunday and brought over to Hershey and set up on Monday. Most of the tent companies can barely get the tents up before the tuesday opening of the flea market as is.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ex98thdrill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Charlier, you need to read the entire post rather than accuse me of being misleading. I have made the point where regardless of where the showfield is located, the designated trailer parking is worse than any showfield that we've been on. According to your stats, over 60% of the show vehicles didn't show up in 2005. I'd consider that A LOT.</div></div>

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the definition of what "very few" shows cars is. To some people 550 show cars would not be considered a small number and is in fact still one if the LARGEST TURNOUTS of any AACA Show event, period. I do agree that a 63% no-show rate (922 cars)is a LOT of no shows. I just do not agree with the use of the words "very few" to describe 550 show cars.

I agree with you that the trailer parking is a problem, no doubt. Is there an easy solution, probably not, unless some of the parking lots at the plants being closed by the Hershey Company could somehow be utuilized in the future.

One thing I was trying to say in my previous post (rather poorly) is that a grass show field in combination with the current trailer parking lots is a One-Two punch when it comes to wet/soggy/muddy ground. That One-Two Punch has the VERY REAL POTENTIAL to be a Knock Out for the Car show event. If that happens the car show may find it very difficult to attract 100-200 cars let alone 550.

BTW, I agree with McHinson. I feel that the vendor field should be reorganized and the "parking spaces" be eliminated for those people who are not actively vending at all or not vending car parts or car related items. That in conjunction with organizing the fields by brands, etc. could help to ease the WALKING DISTANCE PROBLEMS to some extent. I suspect these and other policy violations have gone on for years which is no excuse to continue to ignore them. Some have said that these spaces are being used by Buyers, so what? How can one justify violating the rules just because one is a buyer? What about the 10s of thoussand of other buyers that walk the fields of Hershey and haul their purchases back to their cars in the off-site parking lots? Those people are buying a LOT more items than those buyers with parking spaces so why let them park there?? If people are parking in the flea market that tells me that there is an underlying problem that these people are attempting to solve by parking in the vendor area. If that is the case maybe show car owners should start parking their trailers in the flea market area and solve their muddy trailer parking problems??

One has to wonder just how many more people (buyers & sellers) would come to Fall Hershey if the vendor parking spaces were eliminated and the fields reorganized by brands. I suspect it could be a significant number of people. Unfortunatley, we will never find out if rules are not enforced and the layout of the fields are not organized.

[mrpushbutton]

I can't imagine the chaos it would be to try to segregate the fields or areas of the fields by brands, and maintain that grouping, given the ebb and flow of vendors. One guy I overheard this year said "where are all the (<span style="text-decoration: underline">major big three volume brand)</span>parts at here? we sort of laughed and made a big sweeping motion and said "all over--the whole flea market" he thought this was about the most stupid idea ever, "why wouldn't you put all of the X parts together" I couldn't imagine a volunteer group like the AACA having the time of day to try to maintain such a system of organization year after year. There are "sort of" Packard, Studebaker, Rolls Royce and steam car rows, and these do not happen by accident, they are the result of those parties getting together independent of the AACA and going in on the same spaces.

truthfully some large scale vendors of major-brand parts (let's say Ford model A for example) might not want the ability to price shop the same re-pop part between a number of vendors in a small radius.

[Ricko1937]

Here's a thought. Since so many vendors are packed up and gone before sat. why not give them special vendor spots say around the arena, charge them $50 instead of $70 and have them out Friday evening. Then you can setup the car show on pavement around Giant Center and consolidate the areas with less walking.

[1937hd45]

If your jackbooted brownshirted armbanded "inspectors" show up in the flea market asking to "see your papers", tell them to expect a used Model T Ford axle installed in the back of their head. ...........I've had a swap meet spot since 1974 and haven't had reason to [censored] yet.

[alsancle]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1937hd45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your jackbooted brownshirted armbanded "inspectors" show up in the flea market asking to "see your papers", tell them to expect a used Model T Ford axle installed in the back of their head. ...........I've had a swap meet spot since 1974 and haven't had reason to [censored] yet. </div></div>

Bob, sadly, 10/20 years ago every spot looked like yours - which was pretty cool. These days at least 1/2 the chocolate field is filled with parked cars, RVs or "honor" tables where somebody puts out literally 10 dollars worth of scrap and you slide the money through the cracked window of their car.

I see no problem with people having a double spot and parking their car in one of them assuming they have a table set up in the other. That is different from what I saw this year (and last) which was rows and rows of parked cars and no vendors.

[1937hd45]

NOT SO! 10-20 years ago I had good stuff at Hershey! This was the unsold eBay stuff, Monday I took the remains to the local scrap yard and added $11.00 to my Hershey sales total. Fact is eBay is were the good stuff sells year round and Hershey is a social gathering. I camp out in the van Tuesday & Wednesday night and I just don't understand were all the vendors are after 7:00, years ago people were strolling around up till 11:00.

[charlier]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mrpushbutton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't imagine the chaos it would be to try to segregate the fields or areas of the fields by brands, and maintain that grouping, given the ebb and flow of vendors. One guy I overheard this year said "where are all the (<span style="text-decoration: underline">major big three volume brand)</span>parts at here? we sort of laughed and made a big sweeping motion and said "all over--the whole flea market" he thought this was about the most stupid idea ever, "why wouldn't you put all of the X parts together" I couldn't imagine a volunteer group like the AACA having the time of day to try to maintain such a system of organization year after year. There are "sort of" Packard, Studebaker, Rolls Royce and steam car rows, and these do not happen by accident, they are the result of those parties getting together independent of the AACA and going in on the same spaces.

truthfully some large scale vendors of major-brand parts (let's say Ford model A for example) might not want the ability to price shop the same re-pop part between a number of vendors in a small radius. </div></div>

I can see where, at first glance, it might appear to create chaos if one were to try to organize the fields by brands.

That might not be as bad as you think. Right now Hershey Region knows what vendors are selling what brands or they could not put that information in the Hershey Program each year. The region also knows how many vendor spaces are in each and every field. With that basic information it should be possible to layout the fields. Will it be easy? Probably not. Could technology possibly be used to assist the process? Maybe. Has Hershey Region looked into using technology to help them do this? Only the Region can answer that.

You were not the only person on the flea market fields to here other people comment unfavorably about the lack of orgganization of the fields. I heard that comment a number of times myself during the 9 hours I was roaming the fields on Friday. In the long run, lack of organization will most likely hurt business for the vendors and give Fall Hershey a bad reputation as far as organization is concerned. Older AACA members and the older public will stop coming to Hershey because they simply cannot walk the fields any longer. Younger AACA members and the younger public may beging to feel that the unorganized fields are wasting their time to find what they need and stop coming as well.

[ex98thdrill]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing I was trying to say in my previous post (rather poorly) is that a grass show field in combination with the current trailer parking lots is a One-Two punch when it comes to wet/soggy/muddy ground. That One-Two Punch has the VERY REAL POTENTIAL to be a Knock Out for the Car show event</div></div> You're right. But the trailer parking was where it has been even back when the showfield was on blacktop. Until you get the trailer parking issue resolved, it's always going to suck no matter where the showfield is. As I've already said in a previous post, the only difference between the trailer parking field and the old yellow field is that the Swatara Creek is on the opposite end of the field. In simpler terms, <span style="font-weight: bold">both the old yellow field and the trailer parking area SUCKS!!</span> The golf course is the lesser of two evils.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I feel that the vendor field should be reorganized and the "parking spaces" be eliminated for those people who are not actively vending at all or not vending car parts or car related items</div></div> I understand what you're saying, but some of the biggest violators of this are our current and former national officers. On the same token with the way the HERCO, the area hotels and everyone else are "gouging" us when we come to town, I don't really blame these people for doing it. These guys can pay $40-$50 to park in the mud and walk a half mile in, or they can pay $70 and have all the convenience in the world. With some of the commitments and meetings that these people have, I'd say it might be worth the extra $20-$30 to have the extra convenience.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If that is the case maybe show car owners should start parking their trailers in the flea market area and solve their muddy trailer parking problems??</div></div> If I wasn't afraid of getting the car marked up while trying to get it out of the flea market and into the showfield, I'd be signing up for a flea market space for next year. But it'll cost us about $140 to get the space to get the trailer in there.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blasting the national officers, nor am I trying to blast the local region. The bottom line is that HERCO has us all by the short hairs, we have no other alternatives, they know it, and they're taking full advantage of it. We have to either play the system to our advantage, deal with it, or leave. If we leave there will be 10 other people who will step in, and HERCO will still get their money.

[Jay Wolf]

Don't you think this issue is Herco. When I first started going (70's) you could camp in the trailer parking for FREE.

Later $5 a night, then 10 then 20 then 30 then 40 then $60 and you have to pay for 5 days.

So to park your camper is $300 so the $70 swapmeet spot looks a lot more attractive.

When it got that high I started staying in a motel.

I guess I could have gotten a swapmeet space but I agree with you that swap meet should be for swapping, not parking.

But on the lighter side the $70 goes to the Hershey Region, the $300 goes to Herco.

[Ron Green]

I walked back to the spots behind the stadium where my friends have (but haven't used recently) 5 spaces. This area has turned into a parking lot within the past 2 to 3 years.

On the discussion regarding HERCO: unless HERCO has had a change of heart they would just as soon see this meet end. It is a pain in the butt for them since they are getting the park ready for Christmas and Halloween, which is much more profitable and a lot less work. When I dealt with HERCO (business related for many years) very few had a lot of positive to say and the fall meet.

[R. Kapral]

What would HERCo and the Hershey area Chamber of Commerce do if another place was found to have the fall meet in eastern Pa. Is there a place to hold something that big or does HERCO have everyone by the short hairs? Seems to me that if the buisnesses in the Hershey area found out that the show was going to be relocated they would be having a fit that they would be loosing alot of $'s for that week.

[Guest imported_Packards1]

Many vendors do not specialize in one brand or any one type of part. It would be impossible to change this. And for what? It has worked great since 1973 when I started and I don't want anyone messing up the best show in the country by experimenting.

[novaman]

[qutoe]Right now Hershey Region knows what vendors are selling what brands or they could not put that information in the Hershey Program each year.

They really don't know. The vendor each year fills out a form (for the retuening vendors it's done in somthing like December) and on that form is a spot of a code, that being the category THE VENDOR wishes to be placed in the book. I could have filled out that form for the catergory of Willys-Overland in Dec but by 10 months later have sold ALL my Willys parts. (which almost happened the other year). Now I just have some Ford stuff, GM stuff, Mopar stuff, some pre-war stuff and some post war stuff. Herhsey Region PRESUMES that the vendor is bringing stuff that falls into that category.

The other thing that happens when you slipt them up like that is say a guy has mainly GM stuff. The guy that is looking for the grille emblem for that Contintal Beacon probably won't ever find it cause each year he is busy in the Misc section while this guy that has it is in the GM section. There are a lot of vendor that have more stuff than just what what they are listed under. Vendors are only allowed one listing, therfore they will put what they are planning to 10 months later, carry to Hershey.

[Ron Green]

I don't know where else they could have it considering the amount of space required, facilities needed, township & HERCO cooperation required, necessary lodging, etc. Moving Hershey would be like moving the Indy 500. Yes there are some issues however look at how large this meet has grown.

I wouldn't feel to bad for the local businesses as this area is full of tourists for 6 months or more most of the year. HERCO isn't as bad as some may think unless things have changed dramatically within the past 5 years.

[novaman]

I heard something to the effect that Hershey region had the chance to use a closed airport the goverment owns and that Herco went all the way the governer's office to get that option blocked. Also that they did something of the same to get a RV show move from under a multi acre enclosed building to the Herco facilites.

Truth or not, I'm not 100% sure but I consider the source to be pretty reliable.

[Guest windjamer]

Follow the money. I dont care how good the town, village or region is in, five days of hershey puts some mighty big bucks in the coffers.

[Ron Green]

David, I am unaware of any closed airports be it government, private or public owned anywhere near this area. I believe the RV show has moved from Hershey either this year or last year? I know they had a major RV show not to long ago at the farm show arena in Harrisburg.

[1937hd45]

Be honest, Hershey IS an RV Show!