1974 LeSabre Luxus 455 Stage 1 Convertible worth saving

[nwperformance]

I would love some advice on whether this car is worth saving. Was going to pull the motor and tranny for a Skylark project, but heard this may be a rare car. I cant seem to find alot of information on the big Buick convertibles and they dont seem to hold much value. Would appreciate any thoughts, advice, or jeers. If there is a better place to post, please let me know. I am new to the forums. Thanks

[TxBuicks]

It is a rare car, with only 3627 produced. Although the 455 engine is tuned down a little from previous years, it is still desireable.

My Old Car Price Guide listing, going from bad to good:

6. 400

5. 1200

4. 2000

3. 4000

2. 7000

1. 10000

It is sure to increase in value in a few years.

[Reatta Man]

A lot of the decision will depend on three things; how much rust does the car have, how complete is the car, meaning is it missing much or nearly all of the unique trim to the car, and three, is the engine locked up?

If you are thinking of pulling the engine and transmission, that tells me the engine is OK or at least rebuildable.

If you need to replace most or all of the rear quarters, most or all of the floor pans, and much of the metal around the rear where the top meets the trunk lid, and/or the front fenders or bottom of the doors, I wouldn't try to save the car.

Joe

[jscheib]

I think that this car is near the end of the convertible type of that era, before they came back in the 80's, so that would suggest the values should appreciate, but you never know.

John

[Guest rlbleeker]

Is it a factory stage 1 car (5th digit of the VIN would be V)? I think that would make it a fairly rare car.

[Guest BJM]

Well there are a lot of fans of Big Buicks on this forum from 71 to 76. The car typically had a 350 in 1974, the 455 was probably only in 20 percent of production and to add to that if it is a Stage 1, then who knows? 100 cars maybe were Stage 1's. Heck, I didn't even think they had Stage 1's in 1974. What does that mean? Bigger intake valves, cam bump?

It's your car you got to love it and think through what it would be like to drive restored. With road wheels and nice paint, restored, these would get my interest anyway but you know, GS Skylarks with big blocks get much more love then these full size convertibles, rare or not.

Preservationists will gasp at the thought of pulling the motor and selling the carcus or crushing it but there isn't the kind of demand for it that muscle cars get. Some folks get bent out of shape over the plan to remove the motor until you mention do you want to buy it? then you can hear the crickets from the quiet.

So do you like the body lines more then a GS? Do you want something a little different, if you already have enough GS's? It probably has a posi already if it's a Stage 1, that would be a plus. Show us some pics!

[Guest brh]

I remember these cars as a teen, got a ride in a 74 true Stage 1 Convert. I will admit I have a real soft spot for the big converts after owning a 72 Centurion. It is true that this was the second to the last year for the big converts except Cadillac. A true Stage 1 convert of the 74 era is probably pretty rare. I was working with guy in Texas to save a Luxus (not a stage 1). We got real close until he found out the tranny was blown. A lot depends on the condition and what you want to do with the car, you are the only one that can make that call. If ya can save it. Don't know if I'd put that big old 455 in a lark, thats one heavy engine and in 74 compression ratios were pretty low, most cars were pretty slow. By the way--welcome to the forum!!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Welcome to the forums.

As to the question of whether or not it is worth saving, the answer is always yes for a Buick. Now, the question of whether or not it is economically feasible and whether or not you want to tackle it is sort of another question. A lot of that depends upon the condition the car is in now. Finally, as I think someone else stated, if it is your car, do you want it? Can you see yourself enjoying the car? I think the last two are probably key. Very few restorations come out ahead financially, unless you do all the work yourself and don't count your time as having value.

In my opinion, I'd restore the Luxus, and find another donor drivetrain if you are set on putting a 455 into the Skylark project.

It's a neat car, quite rare with the optional drivetrain, and something you don't see very often.

Good luck with your decision.

[nwperformance]

Wow, thanks for all the responses. Its nice to see so much interest in the old Buicks. I just purchased this car, its a bit of a story, but an older gentleman had been tinkering with it for the last 15 years. He was diagnosed with lung cancer and all his projects had to go. Its in many pieces right now, and I have yet to do the inventory to make sure all the trim is there. It had rust in all four corners, but he had started repairs. None on the top surfaces that I can see. Bottom is spotless and floor pan seems to have fiberglass in one section. I have the build sheet. It is not a V vin code which I thought was stage 1 in skylarks etc. This is a W vin code which my Chiltons book says is Stage 1 for LeSabre in 1974. The build sheet says L76 ENG 455 H-CMP. I will get some pictures up soon. Need to figure out how first. Ahh the joys of being a newbie. Thanks again for the responses and I welcome any and all further comments advice etc. Take care. David

[Guest Shaffer]

Yeah, I would love to see photos of this car!

[74455]

As noted above, there were 3,627 1974 LeSabre convertibles produced. I have the exact number produced with 455 engines back at home (think it was less than 1/2 the production), I'll try to post tonight. I also recall (based on info I got from Sloan Museum in Flint, MI) that only about 197 (I will confirm later) had the Stage 1 455. These are very rare cars. 1974 is a year for which Sloan can provide the original dealer order sheet for the car and what the color and options were (I got this a couple of years ago for my car, I think it was $25 but may have gone up). I hope this car can be restored with the Stage 1 engine. The big GM convertibles were no longer produced after 1975 model year.

[Guest BJM]

Also, you don't have to over-restore. You can bring it to a very nice level without overspending but it sounds like a keeper. You know, on the 455 big blocks in the Skylarks/GS etc, you can build any BB 455 even most of the low compression engines, to a very high level, many that have been removed from cars, etc. Buicks built millions of them and they are still around, but to seperate this motor from this car, especially if you can get the verified information from Sloan, that would be tough for most of us to do. Not a lot of "rare" cars from the 70's, outside of the 70-72 GS cars in certain configurations, so it appears you have 1 of 197 and visually these are nice looking cars. Buick had the best of the big convertibles. The Pontiac Grand Ville was truly boatish and bloated, the Olds 88 convertibles were nicely done but only the Buick typically had road wheels, which make a nice visual statement.

[Guest brh]

She sounds like a keeper!!! Like I had said earlier I was close and the car I was trying to save, stored outside, was vandalized, bought under salvage title, severe hail damage, but engine ran. Trans only worked in reverse. Oh forgot to mention one other thing, car was in Texas, I am in Illinois. Like I said a real soft spot for the big converts. Save this one.

[74455]

From Sloan: there were 3,627 LeSabre convertibles produced in 1974 model year. 1,613 had a 455 V8. Here are the versions of the 1,613 engines:

L72 (455, 2 bbl):

Flint: 0

Wilmington: 124

Fairfax: 106

L74 (455 4 bbl):

Flint: 0

Wilmington: 454

Fairfax: 732

L76 (455 Hi Performance):

Flint: 1

Wilmington: 77

Fairfax: 119

Total: 197

A page I have from the 1974 Buick Service Manual (page OA-6) does call the W code engine a 455 4bbl "E" Stage 1 with dual exhaust.

The 7th digit in the VIN (before the sequence) is the plant: H = Flint, X = Fairfax, Y = Wilmington.

If you want to contact Sloan Museum, the number I had (2 years ago) was 810-237-3450, you would be looking for what they call the "micro-fiche" info that shows all the options on the car, if you provide them the VIN. They have '72 - '80 model years covered. This is a good way to be double-sure it is Stage 1. It cost $25 and they mail you the information in about a week. Email is sloan@sloanlongway.org. The guy who helped me and gave me the engine info was the curatorial assistant (Andy).

[Guest 74ragtop]

I realize I'm replying to a very old post but I would like some opinions from people in the know.

 

Good day all,

I'm new to this group and have just acquired my first Buick. It is a 1974 LeSabre Luxus Convertible with the 455 4bbl with the "Stage 1" option. I have confirmed this with Sloan Museum and have received all supporting documentation. Given that this is 1 of 197 built it may change the way I go about restoring the vehicle but I would like some opinions.

Car details are as follows. One owner, 44,700 original miles. It has had one re-spray many years ago. It was winter driven for two or three years and parked outside until the original owner moved to a home with a garage and purchased a second vehicle which allowed him to store this indoors in the winter. The upside is that at some point he started having it oil sprayed so it's nicely preserved. The car has been sitting for about 15 years in a dry garage (battery removed and not run). The top and rear window were replaced just before it went into storage and are perfect which is a bonus.

So...it begins...the motor will be taken down and inspected with all seals replaced. The transmission will be serviced and all seals replaced. The carb will be removed and rebuilt. The gas tank will be removed, drained and flushed and lined if needed. Brakes will be done (brake lines if needed as well). Of course all steering and suspension components, exhaust etc. will be inspected and addressed as needed. All weather stripping will have to be replaced. Interior clean up (white vinyl with one small hole in drivers seat which I believe can be patched easily).

So here is my quandary. There are a couple of minor dings on the car and some paint has peeled off the front of the mirrors. There is some very minor surface rust on the sills when you open the doors (a couple of inches square) but otherwise the car is solid. My initial idea was to change the colour from the original burgundy, powder coat all the chrome black (bumpers, headlight trim etc.) and paint out the grill in black as well. Ultimately just to have a funky land yacht to cruise with. I didn't buy this looking at it as an investment, just something to add to our collection of toys (1966 modified F100 and a couple of Harleys). After finding out how rare this vehicle is I'm second guessing myself and wondering if I should just stick with original colours and leave the chrome intact.

I know that this particular car isn't a huge collectible so values don't get through the roof but given the rarity of the "Stage 1" what might the high side be if I take it back to original?

Please don't hate me for thinking of changing it up but I look forward to your thoughts.

Cheers,

Mike

[NTX5467]

There are SEVERAL orientations at play in this situation!  FIRST one is that it's a CONVERTIBLE in that size of car in the model year it's in.  GM ended B-body convertible production at the end of the 1975 model year, as I recall.  Production levels had decreased markedly in that vehicle size by that time, so "rarity" is a base issue as to whether or not "to save it".  As assist is the ready-availability of metal working tools and base sheet metal with which to fabricate floor pan patch panels (or appropriate donor vehicles in salvage yards) and related sealing/re-coating substances to ensure a better fix than in prior times.  It was somewhat common to use fiberglass components to repair such things in the past, but a good metalworking/restoration shop can now do it instead, welding it all together.

 

SECOND is the verified optional engine!  As stated, big block performance was more about size than cams and compression ratios in 1974.  Chrysler, Ford, and GM divisions still produced "high power" big block engines in 1974, albeit with lower compression ratios and such.  The shift was coming to be toward fuel economy after the 1974 oil embargoes and such.  The basic "guts" of the prior factory hot rod motors were usually still there, adapted for the lower compression ratios, but "still there".  Those "extra guts" might not reveal themselves in the factory power ratings, but they were usually there.

 

These engines usually came with heavier-duty chassis components and a particular automatic transmission calibration, just as in prior times.

 

THIRD, related to "SECOND", is that this was the end of the run for such factory performance vehicles, for a while.  Emissions hardware had hampered their power output and worsened their drivability somewhat, plus their ultimate fuel economy.  They were also the last to have TRUE factory dual exhaust systems, for many years, rather than the "dual outlet mufflers" which gave similar appearances in later years.   The 1975 model year, for GM, was the first for catalytic converter exhaust systems and the wide-spread standard equipment of "radial tire suspension" systems, many of which comprised components from the earlier optional radial-tuned suspensions.

 

As mentioned, you don't have to immediately make it a concours show car, but just do a normal restoration process to OEM standards and it'll be just fine.  There might be some places where over-restoration might happen, but don't let that be the main orientation or it can end up being a money pit that doesn't get finished.  Nor be ultimately cost-effective to do (even considering possible future price appreciation).  It'll never be a 13 second quarter mile car, either, but it'll be a great car to drive and enjoy . . . especially in those times of the year when open-air motoring are so enjoyable!  It can probably lay some rubber, but that's not what they were specifically what they were designed to do.  Rather, much better to use a part-throttle punch off idle to catch Mustang owners "off guard" at the red light can be much more fun!

 

Buicks were generally about "off idle and mid-range torque" rather than higher-rpm horsepower.  Using that TORQUE is what moves the vehicle, makes the tires "squall" with a moderate throttle input from off-idle, and gets you past other cars from lower speeds.  Peak horsepower ONLY happens at "that rpm", torque is what pushes you back in the seat at lower speeds.

 

NTX5467

Edited October 16, 2016 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Pete Phillips]

Almost ANY convertible is worth restoring. As the Kruse Auction people used to say, "When the top goes down, the price goes up!"

[JZRIV]

Achieving/maintaining the most value in the future for that car is keeping it original or restored original or with easily and inexpensively reversible modifications. Powder coating the chrome will be VERY expensive to reverse possibly exceeding the value of the car. Painting it any color that was available from factory that year on that car is acceptable. If the color is changed to a non-factory custom color and a future buyer wants to have a factory color, that is VERY expensive and can significantly reduce the value of the car. Modifications are often personal, significantly reduces the buying pool when selling and can make a car difficult to sell especially if the mods are not trendy at the time of sell.

Edited October 18, 2016 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Isn't quoting the Kruse auction people kind of like the Skipper of the Exxon-Valdez telling you a sip of wine is good for the circulation?

 

The '74 Buick; make it steer, start, and stop. Ease into it and know how to get out fast.

Bernie

[NTX5467]

Rarity and collectability doesn't always equate to "increased value".  That does NOT give license to make modifications to a car with inherent rarity in model production AND options!  This is one vehicle which needs to be "OEM STOCK" to be worth what it can be worth, regardless of your orientation of "not an investment".  NO reason to destroy originality because you don't consider it "an investment".

 

If it's your desire to have a "funky cruiser" per se, probably better to start with a 2-dr hardtop, which is far more common AND provides a better pallet upon which to enhance the artistic value of the base design.  AND, to me, the hardtops have better lines than the convertible!  Black bumpers?  Go "body color" instead for a more integrated look.  Then use the side contours for a "tone on tone" effect with a color slightly darker than the base color, which can also be repeated from the roof rail to the rear of the side of the roof panel (kind of like many of the 1960s custom paint jobs).  Might even find a body wrap place to make you a "decal" in "mirror" for an accent strip along the side of the car, to replace any body side moldings.

 

Do a "hidden audio" sound system.  The hardtop will work better with this as the rear package tray's normal speaker holes are already there, something which the convertible does NOT have.  Hide the speakers in the front kick panels and in the rear package tray.  Forget the sub-woofer!  Everybody in a 2 block radius doesn't need to know what kind of music you like, BUT having a "Channel A, Channel B" STEREO sound is a great thing, rather than "Boombox".

 

Do the mechanicals FIRST, then the cosmetics, BUT always keep an eye on "saleability" rather then otherwise . . . as, eventually, it'll end up being somebody else's.  No reason to decrease the ultimate value just because you can.

 

Respectfully,

NTX5467

[JohnD1956]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 10:28 AM, 74ragtop said:

have just acquired my first Buick.

It is a 1974 LeSabre Luxus Convertible with the 455 4bbl with the "Stage 1" option. I have confirmed this with Sloan Museum and have received all supporting documentation

 given that this is 1 of 197 built it may change the way I go about restoring the vehicle .
I know that this particular car isn't a huge collectible so values don't get through the roof but given the rarity of the "Stage 1" what might the high side be if I take it back to original?
 

Mike, if you are still here, I would like to ask; what do you think is a good " value"  in order to change your plans?  Any information posted here, as to what any vehicle's ultimate market price could be,  is pure conjecture, and thus, totally unreliable.

 

Given your description of the vehicle in your original post, I would say your modifications are way overkill.  Because maroon  with white interior is my favorite color combo, my opinion is already totally skewered. In addition, while I like less chrome, generally,  I do not get the concept of 100%  blacked out chrome pieces.  Personally I am not a fan of the design on the 74 LeSabre front end, and if nothing else, the chrome allows for a few black accents here and there to break up the scheme.  Making it all black will be, in my sole opinion, bone ugly. Therefore this vehicle with your modifications would be totally worthless to me.  But to others it could be the best thing since sliced bread. 

 

What you are doing here is gambling, and I'm sure you already know that.  Here's another question.  Are you going to keep this car no matter what?  Or are you likely to sell it in a few years, for whatever reason?  

If the former, do whatever you like.  You have to be satisfied with it.  If the latter, you should set it up to appeal to the largest audience. 

 

Oh, as to value, let me relate a quick story.  A friend of mine has bought a 1975 Caddy Coupe De Ville from his dad's neighbor.  13K original miles, Undriven for many years, except up and down the driveway, and in a gorgeous color combination.  Garaged it's whole life, it's like a new car!  The widow was trying to sell the car for 6"K or best offer.  My friend paid 2/3rd of that for the car.  It has won several car show awards right out of the garage! 

In this year's March 2016 Hemming's Motor News, I saw an auction result for a 1975 Caddy with 17K original miles. Described as virtually new in condition, the vehicles average selling price was 4K.  This particular sale was $17,000.  Conclusion?  The value of your car depends entirely on where it is listed for sale, and how much it strikes the purchaser s fantasy button at that moment.   

 

 

[NC-car-guy]

43 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said:

  The value of your car depends entirely on where it is listed for sale, and how much it strikes the purchaser s fantasy button at that moment.   

 

 

So true!!

[Guest 74ragtop]

Good day all,

 

Thanks for the input. The reason I posted here in the first place is because deep down I think I know that the right thing to do is keep this vehicle original simply because of it's rarity and I suppose I was looking for someone to reinforce that lol.

 

While this isn't a vehicle I would have actively sought out (the opportunity sort of fell into my hands) once I'd had a look at it, it started to grow on me. It's still stored at the previous owners garage until I have it towed to my mechanics shop next week. Once we start getting into it I'll have a better idea of what I'm looking at. Given what I can see and the vehicles history I don't think it's going to be too bad to get it back to where it once was. I've started sourcing weather stripping as the original is all dried out and cracking and I'm sure there will be all sorts of items I'll need to refresh so if anyone has specific sources for parts for this particular vehicle I'd appreciate any leads.

 

If I do keep it original which obviously is where I'm leaning now the one thing I would like to change is the wheels. This car had the wire wheel covers (they're digging through piles to locate them for me) but I much prefer the factory steel mags. I don't even know what size they are or the bolt pattern but I'll sort that out next week.

 

Other than that, thanks for the input and I'm sure I'll be here regularly for advice.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[JohnD1956]

You are looking for the 15 inch 5 x 5 bolt pattern.  This is a one piece rim.  It was used from 1970 to the end of production some where in 79 or 80. 

It is similar to, but not the same as, earlier rims from 64-69. 

 

Note, there is a 14" and 15" rim with a 4 3/4 pattern. These are easily differentiated from what you need because they are two piece rims.  If you want pictures, please let us know, and we can provide those.

[Guest 74ragtop]

Thanks John,

 

Visuals are always helpful, if you wouldn't mind posting pictures for my reference that would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[60FlatTop]

You just wrote the two words to send chills down a person's spine, "my mechanic". I have been reading this forum since 2006 and those are the words that introduce the biggest horror stories. It is better to buy some books and manuals. And some tools. This is not a job for "my mechanic".

There are two other words to watch out for. Those are "I thought". Listen carefully today and you will probably hear them at some point. Just pay attention to what was said right before those words were uttered.

 

Your first post mentioned an engine swap you were doing. Were you doing that yourself?

Bernie

[Guest 74ragtop]

Hi Bernie,

 

I believe the person that started this thread had mentioned an engine swap. I have no intention of changing out the motor on this as its an original numbers matching vehicle.

 

Yes I did mention "my mechanic" but I don't want to send chills down your spine lol. He's a very qualified mechanic and friend that has been instrumental in helping me build my 66 F100. He's a Chevelle fanatic (his daily driver is a beautifully restored 396 El Camino) and he works on both restoration of classic vehicles and also modified performance vehicles. He'll be the one doing the re & re on the motor and transmission and he's about as good as they get. I have a small barn on my property but I can't even get a vehicle through the door as it's too narrow, even if I could our Harleys live there. He's meticulous and anal when it comes to the details, there's no one else I'd trust more.

 

Thanks for the concern though...I totally get it, I've seen and heard the horror stories as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[JohnD1956]

Here's a few wheel pictures.

The 15" wheel you want looks like this: Note, the center is one piece with the rim.

 

 

The 14" and 15" rim with the smaller bolt pattern looks like this: Note that the rim and center are welded together but there is a visible seam between them. You can also see a difference in the black web area designs.

 

 

Keep in mind that the latter year rims, after 1970, had no register ring, as shown in the next picture. Register rings were utilized on rims from 64-69.  The rings prevent these rims from fitting flush to your hubs.  In addition, these rims come in two styles, drum brake, and disc brake.  This is a disc brake rim.  You can tell because the rim area in the back is squared off.  Had it been a drum brake rim, the back side would be tapered which would hit your disc brakes.

 

One more caution.  Back in the day, some folks removed the register ring to get the rims onto the newer cars, so absence of the same still requires a good look to see what your getting.

 

 

I'm not going to get into the offset on the 14 and 15" rims.  There are several.  But there is also a different offset on the pre 70 and post 70 - up  rims you need.  The increased offset on the older rims may result in tires hitting the frame when you make hard turns.  But even of they did, it's not usually a major issue.

 

 

[EmTee]

74ragtop - I have a set of the post-1970 Buick road wheels if you're interested (depending upon where you're located).  They currently have the '66 - '70 Riviera 'turbine' center caps, but I believe the centers you'd want are available.  I'm located near Syracuse, NY.

[RivNut]

As far as rally wheels go on the Riviera, the wheels changed with the introduction of the Boat tail in 1971.  Did the full sized models change a year earlier?

[RivNut]

PS - The later wheel is significantly difference in both appearance and design (offset, etc.)

[60FlatTop]

You can always go for a set like this to test how you like them.

Genuine factory wheel covers.

Bernie

Edited October 21, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[EmTee]

I just went out to the garage and checked the set of loose road wheels that I have (came on my '67 Riviera wjth 3/8" spacers installed).  They are later wheels; in fact they appear to be date coded September 1985.  They are marked: 5 1 01 1  15x7  JJ  DOT T (Next Line) 9 13 85         MW  (I believe the 'MW' denotes they were manufactured by Motor Wheel Company.)

 

They are indeed 7" wide (inner to outer bead seat).  They are 15" with '5 on 5' bolt circle.  Front offset measures 3 3/8" (outer bead lip to lug nut hole bevel).  Rear offset measures 4 3/8" (outer bead lip to hub mounting surface).  The center cap hole is 2" with one notch in the circumference.  Someone hogged-out one of the center holes to accept the '66 - '70 2 1/8 center cap, but the other 3 as original.

 

Pictures below:

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by EmTee
typo (see edit history)

[RivNut]

As far as rally wheels go on the Riviera, the wheels changed with the introduction of the Boat tail in 1971.  Did the full sized models change a year earlier?

 

The wheel that EmTee is describing is the latest and last style wheel.  The bead code JJ is a dead giveaway,   When they came on a new car, the center cap was a silver on Chrome flat cap.  I can't post pictures from my tablet but you can Google and find an appropriate picture.

 

I don't know about other full sized models but when the Riviera went to front wheel drive in 1979, the bolt pattern changed to a 5 on 4-3/4" bolt circle.

[EmTee]

I believe this is the center cap that would have come originally on the wheels I pictured above.  CARS has them listed for $43 each.

 

[JohnD1956]

20 hours ago, RivNut said:

As far as rally wheels go on the Riviera, the wheels changed with the introduction of the Boat tail in 1971.  Did the full sized models change a year earlier?

 

As far as I understand it, yes, they changed with the 1970. 

 

 

[RivNut]

Anyone have a picture of a 1970 non-Riviera that they could post showing the rally wheel for models other than the Riviera?

[smithbrother]

GOOGLE, images of 1970 Buick's, I think you will see some,

 

Dale in Indy

[dloftis]

I recently purchased a 1974 LeSabre Luxus Convt with the VIN "W" and have now verified from Sloan Museum it is a factory Stage 1 car.  

This car is fairly well optioned with Auto Climate Control, dual power seats, Cruise Control and first year Delay wipers.   It even has a factory Class II trailer hitch and wiring.   It was ordered from the Sitton Buick dealership in Greenville, SC for a local orthopedic surgeon at the time it was new.  I am the 4th owner and the 3rd owner inherited it.   I located the original owner and he is 87 now.  He remembered this car and said it was the last American car he ever bought going forward.  He traded this car for a Mercedes.

Edited December 6, 2017 by dloftis (see edit history)

[nwperformance]

Its just amazing to me that a topic I started over 10 years ago is still going.  You guys are awesome!  dloftis reached out, as he purchased a similar car to my 74 convert.  Welcome to the forum by the way.  I ended up selling my 74 as I didn't have the heart to pull the motor and trans as it was an original stage 1 car.  I sadly sold her as I was out of storage space and already three Buicks deep.  You guys are making me feel a bit guilty as I shelved all my projects  shortly after losing the 74 and haven't done much since.  Life sometimes gets in the way of life.  We lost mom last year and now I am taking care of dad instead of my cars.  Dad is a 94 year old model who put me underneath a Model A Ford when I was three years old.  That was the start Two Model A's, a Chevy Corvair, Lots of Chevy Blazers, a couple Studebaker Avanti's, A 56 Ford Thunderbird, the 74 big block Buick, two 68 Skylarks and two 72 Skylarks later, here I am   As I told dloftis, I still have a 72 Skylark, the 56 Ford Thunderbird, a 1995 Mazda Miata (moms old car) and a fully stock 1999 two door Chevy Tahoe  to pull everything around.  I guess I am a car guy.  Its great to see everyone still out there and talking on this forum.  If there are any of you in Oregon that want to help me with the 72 Skylark, let me know   Long live the automobile and those that love to keep them going!