A/C 65 riv

[Guest Bronie]

Hey Guys,

Not sure if you guys remember me from the Asheville show, but I am the young member who one the prize for youngest member. Anyways, I was wondering If anybody knows if there is another way of putting A/C into my 65 riv. I took out the old system and dont really think its worth it to rebuilt and convert it to R-134. I have seen another 65 riv with a different compressor and system. Does anybody know if its possible and worth it to do this type of job?

John from Toronto

65 riv custom

[RivNut]

Look at Vintage Air products, it's expensive, but makes for a really clean engine compartment and modern controls. You basically have to gut what you have now and start from scratch. If you call and talk with one of the tech guys, he'll tell you which pages of their catalog you need to download.

Ed.

[TexRiv_63]

John,

I installed a Vintage Air system in my 63. If you have already removed the old system a lot of the work is done! Look at their website and see if they have a dealer in Toronto, it will be a lot easier if you can buy the system locally and have someone who can support your install and charge it when you are done. I bought from a hot rod shop near Dallas and they were very helpful.

[Guest Bronie]

Don, How much did the system set you back and do you think it was worth it? Location inst hard because I travel to the US frequently to get parts. I also have a very good local mechanic that takes care of my riv.

[imported_buick5563]

Hey John,

It depends on what you think is reasonable. Probably in Toronto, you don't need AC as much as Don (or I) do living in Texas. I've seen the vintage air systems, they work well and look OK, but so do the original one's if they are tuned up. It's probably not as worth it to you, although, I don't have a dollar amount.

Mike

[NTX5467]

The key will be if you want (and the people who might purchase the vehicle later on, who might not know anything about what you've done or can find somebody knowledgeable about what you've done) to keep a stock look or want a "modified" look. This can also depend upon who might be willing to purchase the car at some future time, too, although you might not want to sell it anytime soon.

The newer compressors will take less power to run than the GM A-6 unit on the car, which is a given as they were designed in an era when fuel economy was first becoming important. I somewhat doubt your Riv's engine will feel the few extra horsepower that will not be used, with all due respect.

You can convert your existing unit to R-134a with little more effort than getting the existing oil out of the system (including the condensor and evaporator cores), resetting the low side adjustment in the POA valve (yes, they ARE adjustable once you get them off the car -- it only takes a 1/2 CCW turn of the adjusting screw to do it) to get approx 40 degree air out of the vents on a hot day, and then recharging the system with about 90% (or a little less) of what it took with R-12. Where the "economies" of putting the aftermarket system in there would be that you'll probably need (due to age issues alone) change the condensor, accumulator/drier, the hoses, and possibly the evaporator core itself anyway . . . all of which would be in the kit you purchase. If you were going to put a/c in a '50s Chevy, the aftermarket kit, to me, would be the way to do it--plenty of room under the dash to work and put things. The supplied interior parts of the kit look good, too. And, once you get down to the bare firewall of the Riv, it might be similar, I don't know.

To me, a key issue with the aftermarket kit would be the installation of the various parts. I wish somebody would build fittings for the compressors that didn't look like they were cobbled from the left-over parts at an auto supply rather than something with a more finished and OEM factory look. Surely, this could be accomplished with a little ingenuity and finesse, but in the years those compressors have been used, it hasn't happened yet. But when similar compressors are used in OEM applications, everything looks much more finished and better . . . at least to me.

Plus, you'll have to remember that although some kits might be "customized for your application", they are still a "will fit" situation in many cases, rather than a "designed to fit" situation. That's kind of the nature of the beast with some aftermarket items, even carburetors. This is where your real expertise with figuring out how things should fit together (when the directions might be more "universal" in nature) on your particular vehicle might be an issue (+ or -), with all due respect. Remember, too, that all of the lines will need to be configured and run, plus the more universal nature of the condensor and receiver/drier items . . . plus the bracketry that holds the compressor and condensor.

As for the existing system, which I presume is a factory a/c system, you just have to lay it up on a good-sized work bench and take it apart and replace/refurbish its components as necessary. The time you spend there could well be less than getting the aftermarket system to fit and getting it installed. Plus, when you put it back in the car, it should bolt right in (after possibly holding your mouth right and a few words of encouragement) rather than being "cut and try".

In reality, the systems in the 1960s cars performed very well and would take a lot to improve upon, with either refrigerant in them. The judgment call is yours, but please weigh all of the options (time and cost and repair issues in later years, as in finding appropriate repair parts for anything with an aftermarket orientation) available. Not to forget the ultimate resale value of the vehicle with the aftermarket a/c system.

In the 1960s, it was not uncommon for people to order a vehicle with only the factory heater and then put an under-dash or "hang down" a/c universal fit system in the car. Ford's factory a/c systems were that way all the way until about the '65 model year on many of their cars, and even a little later on some others. Those systems used a compressor (same as the factory Ford a/c systems) and then had an under-dash unit that was not integrated into the dash or existing hvac system. The modern "street rod" kits are much better in many respects than that type of system, if properly executed, as everything is in one "box". But if you were in the real boondocks and had an a/c problem with the earlier style of aftermarket a/c, you might stand a better chance of getting it fixed than you might with the current "street rod" style a/c system in there. At least with the factory a/c system, most people would know what they were looking at, I suspect. Which gets back to the "tech support" issue already mentioned.

In more recent times, the aftermarket "kit" people vendors have made strides in designing their systems to work with the factory instrument panel controls and vents, so you have a factory appearance with updated items in "the box", even automatic temp control (I believe). Whether or not the use of factory controls would mesh with your Riv is something you'll have to investigate, but I believe most of these things are more in the musclecar vehicle realm of things.

But, your car, your money, and I respect that.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Guest Bronie]

ALL this info is really helpful. I really dont wanna spend alot of money on the A/C issue but i am driving down to the show in Galena in 2008 and AC would be nice, plus the girlfriend wants me to put it in. The drive is 700 miles from Toronto and it will be hot for sure. Do any of you guys know how much it would be to rebuilt the old system and get it working well?

John

1965 Riviera Custom.

[Bill Stoneberg]

The 65 has to be pretty close to my 64.

It cost me maybe 1000 bucks to put in a new compressor, lines, dryer and condensor and expansion valve.

Had the system flushed and had my stv valve reuilt. Then had r 134 put in.

Cools good unless its 105 degrees in the middle of Wyoming.....

[Guest Bronie]

Bill,

Did you do the work yourself or have a mechanic do it?

John

1965 Riviera Custom.

[Jim Cannon]

I did what Bill did on my '63 back in March 2006, keeping it all original (as much as possible) and doing most of the work myself. The cost to me was probably about the same as Bill quoted. (I never had the nerve to add up all the receipts .) I do not think you will do the aftermarket A/C for much less than this, but I never priced it out.

I chose to charge with R-12. I found a bunch of it for $10/lb, so the cost to use it was not too bad. With all the new stuff, it seems to not leak out. Cools REALLY well. We were very comfortable driving over to Flagstaff last summer for the ROA meet with it. YMMV.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Hi John,

I dod most of the work myself. I paid though to have my mechanic replace the expansion valve as it looked like a pain to replace.

He also finished charging it to specs.

I used r134 (If I could have found Jims deal I would have used R12) and it keeps me cool.

I have had a blower go out this summer, but thats a minor item.

[TexRiv_63]

John,

The whole system cost about $1000 almost 2 years ago but I did all the work myself except for crimping the hose fittings and charging the system. This is a universal kit which you will have to adapt to your car, although I found it surprisingly easy. The compressor bolted to the stock bracket with a little shimming and filing. The main unit fits under the dash nicely but the glove compartment cardboard had to go bye-bye. I chose to make the install reversible so I did not cut the firewall but rather made cover plates for the unused holes and routed the hoses through one of those. The best part is that all the underhood clutter goes away, the only items remaining are the compressor and dryer. Obviously if you are truly restoring your car you would probably want to repair the stock system but in my case that would have been much more difficult and costly. I can send some photos of my install if you are intested, send me a PM.

[NTX5467]

One question about the aftermarket kit would be how loud the blower motor and such are . . . considering that some of the similar aftermarket kits we had for the Chevy "Special Economy Trucks" (mid-'80s time frame, which could not be ordered with factory a/c and that package) had blower motors that were (basically) loud and unshielded (for noise). Even the hang-down a/c units from the 1960s had quieter blower motors! As I recall, noise isolation was one of the reasons the factory a/c systems were better (with all of the "noisy" stuff under the hood, on the other side of the firewall).

Just curious . . .

NTX5467

[Guest Bronie]

Don, If you could send me some pics of your install that would be great. My email address is con_swyers@hotmail.com. I basically want something thats cost effective but also looks good under the hood. Im not really a fan of pounting a hang down unit in my car because I don't really have room for it. I have a deck and gauges that are bolted to the bottom of my dash wich take up most of the room. I would like to remain using the factory vents if possible?

John

1965 Riviera Custom.

[TexRiv_63]

John,

I used the stock vents and the stock defroster, if your car came with air you will have no problem. My biggest problem on the 63 was the location of the controls, as a matter of fact I still havent finished the interior. I will have to cut the console trim to install them but you won't have that problem with your 65. I 'll send some photos.