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Plymouth 200 MPH Speedometer.......anyone aware??

Morana

By Morana
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Morana

Morana

Posted
Posted

I have come across a 1958 Fury that has what appears to be a factory installed 200 MPH speedometer. I cannot find anyone that is aware of such, although I have been told that the factory installed these speedometers on the hemi cars that were made especially for the government, and they were used by 'revenuers" specifically to chase moonshine runners. Again, the speedometer is not an add-on and certainly appears factory.

My research can only find 150 MPH Speedometers from factory.

I was also told the government issued cars were not entered into records like normally built cars were, so therefore there may not be records showing these faster cars.

I would appreciate any info you may have on this.

Thank you.

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RocketDude 2,500+ Points

RocketDude

Posted
Posted

I seem to remember that there were some Plymouths and some Pontiacs specially built for the Arizona Hi way Patrol way back in the day. The Arizona desert is flat as a table and stretches on forever, so the story seemed feasibly.

My source of information was my next door neighbor who, at the time, was in management at the GM assembly Plant in South Gate, California. He told us of the 200 MPH Pontiacs they were building, and that Chrysler also received the bid for similar cars.

So I base my facts on a 50 year old rumor...! Best I can do.....

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MCHinson 25,000+ Points

MCHinson

Posted
Posted

I have never seen a 200 mph speedometer. I did hear Bill Cosby talk about one.... smile.gif

My personal experience does not go back that far. I do, however remember driving police cars of the 70's and 80's that came with different speedometers than the stock civilian version of the same cars. So, I don't know if it is true, but I would not say it was not true.

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Mike Cullen 2,500+ Points

Mike Cullen

Posted
Posted

I wrenched on and drove several MOPAR patrol units in the 70s that had the Special Police Package for interstate highway use including the linear "Certified MPH" speedometer heads in them. None of them were 200 MPH units. (I can't remember if they were 140 or 150 mph units) If there is a 58 Plymouth that can run 140-150 for any length of time, it should be in a museum. At that speed, how would you be able to keep it on the ground, much less steer or stop it? Even a specially prepared unit would likely top out at 130 or so, so a 150 would be way more likely.

Definitely time to throw the BS flag!

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roadkillontheweb 1,000+ Points

roadkillontheweb

Posted
Posted

200 KPH (Kilometers per hour) is 124 MPH.

The Fury series did use a 150 MPH speedo unlike the standard speedo that was 120 MPH.

Someone has an export car? or an Export model speedo in a American production car.

Also I will assume that the Hemi statement was not about this car in particular? As Plymouth did not get a hemi till 1964. However there are a number of 1957-58 Plymouth Fury convertibles that someone in Minnesota has made and told people that they were special ordered cars! Double lie since Fury converts did not come out till 1959 and they sure did ot have Hemis!

I specialize in forward look era MoPar cars and export production oddities!

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57plymouth 500+ Points

57plymouth

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Posted

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Amphicar BUYER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 57plymouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The seller is a liar. </div></div>

I might say he could be mis-informed, but to come out and call him a liar without knowing im may be a bit too strong. </div></div>

Anyone who "misrepresents" a car or "clones" a car for profit is a liar and should be called so. The seller in this case has made up a fictional car and is trying to sell it as original.

Another case in point is this car:

http://bacooper.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album12&id=Picture_044

http://bacooper.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album12&id=Picture_043

Here again, there was NEVER a convertible second gen F body from the factory, no matter how much money this idiot thinks he can get. I called him out on this car at the show and he got upset. When five or six total strangers walked up and took my side he nearly got violent and left.

Misrepresenting a car is fraud. Fraud is illegal. Why shouldn't you call someone who is trying to commit a crime a liar?

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Pontiac59 5,000+ Points

Pontiac59

Posted
Posted

Big difference between a phony convertible and an apparently factory looking speedometer on a car that's not even for sale.

It's a Canadian unit and reads in KPH, check with the boys over to www.forwardlook.net , they do turn up now and then. I had an '86 Buick with a similar speedometer, although they only read to 85 or 90 MPH so the KPH read like 160 - and no 307 powered 1986 Buick wagon is going to go 160 MPH, unless you drop it out of an airplane.

As to there being no factory Hemi Plymouths, they didn't build them that way, but back then if you had the $$$ and wanted something, you could sure get it made - the Dodge could be ordered with a 392 Chrysler hemi in it - no reason a dealer couldn't put one in a Plymouth.

Especially when it comes to the export Mopar stuff, there are no hard and fast rules. Some models of Canadian Dodge were a Plymouth with a Dodge front clip. There are 1961 Canadian Dodges that are Plymouths with Dodge badges. South Africa and other places got Dodge trucks sold as DeSotos. In Austrailia, they used the '54 Plymouth body shell until 1959.

In the case of the Firebird, there were a number of companies doing aftermarket conversions on them when brand new, so they could still be sold as new cars. There were GM T-tops and there were Hurst T-tops. There were at least two companines doing super-high-performance editions. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to learn someone did in fact alter a handful of cars into convertibles. And $25,000 is not that unreasonable for it, regardless - if you assume it's custom made by him and not a factory or aftermarket job, that's cheap. If it's Canadian dollars, it's a steal.

The one thing I know for sure in this hobby is you can't know everything and you'll learn something new everyday. It's not worth the arguments to be bold enough to just call someone a liar.

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roadkillontheweb 1,000+ Points

roadkillontheweb

Posted
Posted

<span style="font-weight: bold">Pontiac59 stated</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">It's a Canadian unit and reads in KPH, check with the boys over to www.forwardlook.net , they do turn up now and then.</span>

Not all Canadian markets were metric then! My 1956 Australian Plymouth and Desoto are both MPH not KPH and they did not go metric in Australia until the 60s.The speedo could have been european or south American production?

<span style="font-style: italic">As to there being no factory Hemi Plymouths, they didn't build them that way, but back then if you had the $$$ and wanted something, you could sure get it made - the Dodge could be ordered with a 392 Chrysler hemi in it - no reason a dealer couldn't put one in a Plymouth. </span>

The Dodge had the Hemi available, nobody is stating that they did not! And yes a dealer could put in a hemi in a Plymouth but so could a lot of guys in thier back yard. This does not make it correct! If anybody thinks they have a "factory built" Hemi Plymouth other than a 1963 factory racer I will be glad to check the factory build sheet!

<span style="font-style: italic">Especially when it comes to the export Mopar stuff, there are no hard and fast rules. Some models of Canadian Dodge were a Plymouth with a Dodge front clip. There are 1961 Canadian Dodges that are Plymouths with Dodge badges. South Africa and other places got Dodge trucks sold as DeSotos. In Austrailia, they used the '54 Plymouth body shell until 1959.</span>

I am very familiar with Plodges, Plysotos, Chrysotos and DoSoto's that were made for export markets. I own one a 1956 Desoto Diplomat UTE (el Camino/ranchero body style) made in Australia and yes it uses the 1954 Plymouth base body, And the 1953-54 Plymouth/Dodge body shell was used in the Australian production through 1963 not 1959! "Badge engineered" Desoto Trucks were made in Detroit for various export markets from 1938 and also made in other markets from CKD (Complete Knock Down) shipments or locally produced parts. Africa and Australia had Dodge Desoto and Fargo trucks available in thier markets.

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roadkillontheweb 1,000+ Points

roadkillontheweb

Posted
Posted

Yes they did a lot of things overseas that seem very foriegn to us here!

deswep.jpg

Desoto Sweptside!

40Plymouth.jpg

Australian built Plymouth UTE passenger car based truck

47truck.jpg

Desoto Truck. Just a badge engineered Dodge but I would still like to have one.

56dsl1.jpg

Yes they even made diesel powered Desoto Diplomats in some markets

If you think they stopped making Desoto's in 1961 think again!

62dip1.jpg

1962 African built DoSoto they also made them in 1963-4

71desoto.jpg

1971 Turkish production. and they are still making them today. I could continue for a while but some people have dial up!

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  • 11 years later...
GeWolf

GeWolf

Posted
Posted

I own a 200 mph speedometer cluster that I found when I was a teenager in the dumpster behind the Chrysler Plant in Fenton, MO around 1970, with a factory part number stamped on back of circuit board . Looks like it may have been a nascar prototype 

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joe_padavano 25,000+ Points

joe_padavano

Posted
Posted

This may be a record for a back-from-the-dead post!

 

I have to say that my first reaction when I saw the original post today was that a 1950s Plymouth would have a difficult time hitting 200 MPH if you dropped it from an airplane. ?

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Rusty_OToole 25,000+ Points

Rusty_OToole

Posted
Posted (edited)

A 1957 Plymouth hardtop made 153.453 MPH on Daytona Beach in 1957 and followed it up with a return run of 166.898 for an average of 160.175. Far from stock, it had a Chrysler hemi engine built for racing by Tony Capana. Later the same car hit 183 on the Bonneville Salt Flats with a different motor, just before it blew.

 

image.png.144bd45485c61ebde45d5e9ba1c94b7c.png

 

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/the-new-plymouth-for-1957/

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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John348 25,000+ Points

John348

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

This may be a record for a back-from-the-dead post!

 

I have to say that my first reaction when I saw the original post today was that a 1950s Plymouth would have a difficult time hitting 200 MPH if you dropped it from an airplane. ?

 

WOW 2007!!! A zombie post.

If there were such a thing as a 200 MPH speedometer it would be listed in a parts book from 57 or 58 correct?

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cheezestaak2000 1,000+ Points

cheezestaak2000

Posted
Posted

my first job was at the GM plant in 1964. the car carriers were on strike, so they hired about 20 of us to drive from the plant to a storage area. one day i got in a impala super sport and noticed it had a speedometer that read up to 200. after i parked it, i looked at the maroney label, and  noticed it listed that the 283 was a special compression version. now i was really confused. turns out the car was an export model, the engine was a special LOW compression model, and the speedo was in kilometers.

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8E45E 25,000+ Points

8E45E

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Posted

I have no doubt in my mind it is a KPH speedometer.  I have seen several, either for real, or in photos, of European, or Mexican/South American-market U.S cars with these speedometers.

 

Perhaps "Sebastian Buick" can take a few photos of some these Metric speedometers on a European-market vintage U.S car he comes across the next time he's at a car show in France for us.

 

Craig

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GeWolf

GeWolf

Posted
Posted

Note: I owned numerous muscle cars from the 60's and early 70's, and none of my GTO's, Roadrunners, Fury's, mustangs , chevelle SS or lincoln's had mph/kph stamed on speedometer cluster in dash or dual speed indicator numbers.. though i have seen a couple 1970 challengers with a 150 speedometer with mph under odometer .  It was not common manufacturer practice 50 years ago to incur the extra manufacturing cost, since all speed limit signs were posted in MPH, and there were not s lot of imported cars being driven in America back then like there are today.

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Frank DuVal 10,000+ Points

Frank DuVal

Posted
Posted

A friend had a 63 VW Beetle with the KPH speedometer in it. It was bought by his father when in diplomatic service in Europe. Then brought back to the states.

 

Here is a link to the Switzerland built Corvairs and their metric 200 KPH speedometers:

 

http://www.corvairkid.com/chvairs-2.htm

 

So, 200 or so KPH speedometers not unusual, just not usual here in the US on domestically bought cars.?

 

I did work on a Maserati Mexico with a 300 KPH speedometer. No, I did not drive it that fast....?

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mcdarrunt 1,000+ Points

mcdarrunt

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My memory is fuzzy about yesterday so take what I remember from 1967 with a grain of salt. IIRC my partners 1967 Mercury Cyclone GT with a 427 (medium riser?) had a 160mph speedo which I think was just a factory installed Stewart Warner unit with maybe the "SW" deleted from the face. I do remember it's speedo showed a few more mph than some of the other muscle/super cars so they must have had 150mph units. Many years later I stuck me head in a GT40 at a Ford dealer and it's speedo was over 200, maybe 225 or 250. So far out of my price range I didn't look that closely.

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edinmass 25,000+ Points

edinmass

Posted
Posted

Interesting thread......shal I I post a photo of a 1928 automobile with a 160 mph speedo. Installed new.........yup, a car built in 1928 has a Stewart Warner 160 miles per hour speedometer. No mistake. Documented, now I just have to find the photo. Ed

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