Aftermarket gauges

I'm going to install a triple set of gauges in my '61 Buick. I would like to retain the functionality of my current dash idiot lights. This is the set of gauges I am considering:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-2-5-8-OIL-PRESSURE-WATER-VOLTAGE-VOLT-TRIPLE-GAUGE-SET-GAUGES-5753-/331111860589?hash=item4d17ce096d&vxp=mtr

Comments welcome on my choice. I know from past experiences (40 years ago), the probe for the water temp sending unit on these is rather long, so I don't think I "Y" type adapter/fitting would work. I've thought about a "T" type, which might work better. Thoughts? Similarly, the oil pressure fitting will need to be changed as well. I don't think the ammeter should be any problem.

Once I get the sending units all installed, I will mount the gauges on top of my dash, about where the clock would normally sit. My dash pad is off so it should be the perfect place for now. I can simply mount the holder upside down and use the large hole in the dash to route the wires.

At one time I thought about using 3 clock pods and mount the gauges atop the dash pad once it's done, but I think that might be a little more ambitious than I am, so I plan to use a center type console like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/311171457897?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and mount a gauge pod like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triple-Three-Auto-Car-Gauge-Meter-Pod-Holder-Cup-Mount-2-52mm-Black-TA-/291348737032?hash=item43d5bcec08&vxp=mtr

over the storage tray area on the back part of the console. That will keep them visible and not attached to the under side of the dash. It's just my opinion, but gauges installed under the dash look a bit tacky to me. It's fine if you like it, but I don't. Besides, I don't like putting holes in my pristine dash.

Comments on my ideas are welcome and appreciated. I'm mainly interested in the best way to hook up the sending units to retain my idiot lights. I worked hard to get the green COLD light working and I don't want that work to go to waste. :eek:

That's going to be a clean and functional installation.

A Y or T will not work well since the sensors need to be in the water flow. Other ways would be to use the port on the opposite head; make or buy a spacer with a port under the thermostat housing.

I like the background and needle colors which will match your existing instrument panel. But I did note that the gauges are 2 5/8 in diameter, and the shroud is for 2" in diameter gauges. Finding a larger shroud may present problems.

In addition, I would note that the gauge package contains a 100 LB oil gauge, which means with your standard oil pump the gauge will always be reading below the middle. Long ago I decided that would irritate the be-jesus in me so if I was to go with gauges I would need a 60 LB gauge, so the oil pressure would always look high, instead of low.

Installation in a free standing consolette may also present problems unless you have a plan to permanently anchor that piece, which might mean drilling holes through your floor.

Gauges can be interesting and look great, but they can also lead to concerns that may not exist. I have a temporary oil pressure gauge in my Station wagon for some testing purposes. It is a 100 LB gauge I had lying around. The Wagon's normal oil pressure is supposed to be 37 LBS @ 2500 RPM. Mostly it will be 50 LBS cold, dropping to 20 LBS while driving it thoroughly warmed up and then drop to 5 LBS at a stop light. Believe me, that has caused some tense moments when you look at that thing nearly grounded, yet there is no engine noises for low oil pressure, and the manual says it will run with 5 LBS anyhow. If your warning lights are not flickering I would recommend leaving well enough alone and spend the money on a tank of gas.

I'm with John on this. Temp gauge is the most important of the three.

I like the background and needle colors which will match your existing instrument panel. But I did note that the gauges are 2 5/8 in diameter, and the shroud is for 2" in diameter gauges. Finding a larger shroud may present problems.

In addition, I would note that the gauge package contains a 100 LB oil gauge, which means with your standard oil pump the gauge will always be reading below the middle. Long ago I decided that would irritate the be-jesus in me so if I was to go with gauges I would need a 60 LB gauge, so the oil pressure would always look high, instead of low.

Installation in a free standing consolette may also present problems unless you have a plan to permanently anchor that piece, which might mean drilling holes through your floor.

Gauges can be interesting and look great, but they can also lead to concerns that may not exist. I have a temporary oil pressure gauge in my Station wagon for some testing purposes. It is a 100 LB gauge I had lying around. The Wagon's normal oil pressure is supposed to be 37 LBS @ 2500 RPM. Mostly it will be 50 LBS cold, dropping to 20 LBS while driving it thoroughly warmed up and then drop to 5 LBS at a stop light. Believe me, that has caused some tense moments when you look at that thing nearly grounded, yet there is no engine noises for low oil pressure, and the manual says it will run with 5 LBS anyhow. If your warning lights are not flickering I would recommend leaving well enough alone and spend the money on a tank of gas.

Yeah I like the idea of the larger gauges and the colors are perfect too. I think that gauge pod is thin enough to round out a bit for the larger gauges, but I will probably try to find one which is a better fit.

I drove a mail route for nearly 20 years, so I'm very used to seeing little or no oil pressure indicated on the gauge. As long as it goes back up once you are no longer stopped, it should be fine. The off-center doesn't really bother me much.

The console will be mounted and I plan to fab the area where I mount the pod so that nothing will be able to slide up under the gauges. Not that I'm worried about it shorting out wire or something like that as I plan to put a bottom on the pod so the gauges are fully enclosed. Much better for lighting purposes. I mainly want the area under there inaccessible so I'm not constantly trying to reach something which slid up under there.

My main concern is the water temperature. I have had some problems in the past and I like to keep an eye on that. I just decided to include all three for aesthetic purposes. Of course in never hurts to have the others just in case. :cool:

Thanks much for your thoughts.

That's going to be a clean and functional installation.

A Y or T will not work well since the sensors need to be in the water flow. Other ways would be to use the port on the opposite head; make or buy a spacer with a port under the thermostat housing.

I will look for a better spot but I'm not really certain there is one. My main concern is monitoring the water temp and I will give priority to the sending unit for the gauge. I'm hopeful I can find a place for the other one as well. Thanks for the comments.

I am with John on the gauges. My '60 had three on it when I bought it. I took them out. I installed three under the hood of the convertible to keep an eye on the fresh engine. I am satisfied and they will probably be removed this summer. My Riviera has a temperature gauge tie wrapped to the air conditioning line. Somewhere around the turn of the century the hot light would come on. It's a test gauge and the sensor was bad. I gotta pick up a new sensor one of these days.

I don't think the term "idiot lights" refers to the lights themselves.

Think about the response to a gauge indication that suddenly goes out of proper operating range; what thought will it trigger? "Oh! I'm three quarts low. I thought there were less mosquitoes this year. Or jeez, I should have replaced that 50 year old oil filter hose."

Then there is "Damn, time flies. I really put those new heater hoses on in 1990?" or "I knew that fan blade shouldn't wiggle that much." True quote "once it made a horrible noise when I had to brake hard. You mean I need a radiator AND new motor mounts!"; That little bypass hose ruined the whole vacation."

Then there was the Griswald's Rolls-Royce that pegged the ammeter every time the brakes were applied.

Can't have too many extra tail and brake lights.

Idiot lights come on too late and gauges deviate to remind one of what they forgot to do. On a dashboard under normal driving they are pretty much a throwback to the 1950's when they built cars for ALL the ex-pilots from WWII.

Now there's opinion the gauge maker ain't gonna like. But anything they tell you really should be predictable. And even my wife knew Navy planes didn't run on steam.

Bernie

Good story Bernie. I just know the one time a gauge would have helped me I didn't have one and since then if I go long distance, I like to have them.

It was an old 3/4 ton Chevy pickup and I was headed north on I-71 towards Cleveland. I had bought a console stereo on eBay and was going to get it. I was going along just fine and then the truck began to lose power. It was a bright sunny day and even though the idiot lights were big as any I've seen, they were not very bright when lit. I did a quick scan and sure enough the TEMP light was lit. I pulled to the side of the expressway and popped the hood. Broken fan belt. Simple enough. I called 911 and soon a state trooper arrived. He took me to the nearest town with an Autozone and I bought the belt. I had tools and quickly installed it. Thanked the trooper and thought all was well. Nope.

I did manage to limp the truck back to that town, but either warped the heads or lost the head gasket. Called my son, who was many, many miles away and he said he would bring the trailer. I got a room for the night at the local motel and settled in. By the time he and his wife arrived, it was way too late to start back home, so the next morning we loaded up the old truck and left it there on the trailer while we got the stereo.

Lesson learned and I try to have at least a water temp gauge in any older vehicles I drive long distance. To each his, or her, own, but for me, I like the gauges. Thanks much for your input.

Please consider the source. My signature picture was taken by my only son as I approached him at 60 MPH, on a dirt road, with biased tires. I'm pretty sure I was wearing neither a belt or suspenders, certainly not both. As I age 10,000 thoughts get triggered from comments; sometimes they are entertaining.

Bernie

I keep seeing references in this thread to "sending unit," but see no sending unit pictured in the ebay offering. What am I missing. If the gauges (white face, black lettering and red needles) match the dash instrumentation that is a good thing. Otherwise, the red needles are a little too garish for me. 2 5/8" dia is a smart move.

Back in the day these kind of gauges would be mounted in 1-of-2 ways: in the panel and bolted to the underside of the dash, or individually mounted right in the dash itself by drilling holes.

I keep seeing references in this thread to "sending unit," but see no sending unit pictured in the ebay offering. What am I missing. If the gauges (white face, black lettering and red needles) match the dash instrumentation that is a good thing. Otherwise, the red needles are a little too garish for me. 2 5/8" dia is a smart move.

Back in the day these kind of gauges would be mounted in 1-of-2 ways: in the panel and bolted to the underside of the dash, or individually mounted right in the dash itself by drilling holes.

Look closely at the pictures. I believe the sending unit can be seen sticking up just behind the gauge cluster. I could be wrong though. The guy did tell me the fittings are for standard threads and not metric. That's a good thing.

I did order both the gauges and the plastic pod/gauge holder. They are 52mm, which is about 2 1/16 inch. I will see just how difficult it will be to fit the larger gauges, but I don't anticipate a lot of problems. I will report back with my progress when I do it.

Well, what I see sticking up behind the cluster is the temp probe for the Water Temp gauge. It goes into the engine block. Maybe it is just me, but I would not call that a sending unit.

Well, what I see sticking up behind the cluster is the temp probe for the Water Temp gauge. It goes into the engine block. Maybe it is just me, but I would not call that a sending unit.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Some people call them sending units, some call it a probe I suppose. It serves the same purpose no matter what you call it, sending info (voltage), to the gauge to make the needle move up or down depending on the water temperature.

The one for the lights does almost exactly the same thing (it has a probe on it as well), but obviously has much less of a range as it only indicates COLD, NORMAL, or HOT. And when I recently ordered one from Rock Auto to replace the one which no longer worked, the part was called a Temperature Sender/Sensor.

I guess my point to all of this is, maybe it just depends on when and where you started learning about cars and/or repairing them, etc. For me, I grew up in and around Cincinnati, OH when I started working on vehicles in the late 60's and that is what we called them. It's my hope that most people on this forum knew what I was referring to, but please accept my apologies if I offended your sensibilities by referring to it improperly.

Doug,

I was in no way offended. In fact I was just trying to broaden my limited knowledge by trying to ascertain if I was missing something.

The Queen City, eh? Lived there for 25 + years starting in 1975. Was a west sider myself; Price Hill/Western Hills.

Enjoy that ride!

Thanks. Yep, I was living on the west side then myself. I sprayed lawns for Greenlon around that time. Western Hills, Price Hill, west side, that was my territory. I was driving my '66 Special around that time. Solid black with white interior, my CB handle was the midnight special. LOL Those were the days.

Checked some of your links, good stuff. I'm using a heater core from a '62 Olds 88 in my Buick. Perfect fit and does away with the heater valve inside the car, which is much better in my opinion.

Got the gauges in the mail yesterday, the holder/pod should be here by Thursday and I can do some test fits. Gauges look very nice and all the pieces seem to be there. Hope to get them in the car very soon if I can figure out how to do the water temp probe.

Those are the 'mechanical' gauges and the 270 degree faces for temp/oil are very good for seeing small variations from 'normal' that can help you picking up a problem before it gets too big. The oil pressure you can use a 'T' and have the gauge and idiot light. Many folks will only run copper line for this. I've used the plastic, but run it through rubber hose for protection. Bleed the air out of the line on initial start up for good readings. You will need to get your temp probe into the coolant and the best is either to give up your front passenger side 'idiot light' location or source the correct 3/8" square tool to turn out the plug in the now rear drivers side opposite head(a 1/2" to 3/8" socket adapter is generally not 'sharp' enough/too loose and not up to the job). This can be a tough task and requiring heat-good luck. Dan Mpls. Mn.

Those are the 'mechanical' gauges and the 270 degree faces for temp/oil are very good for seeing small variations from 'normal' that can help you picking up a problem before it gets too big. The oil pressure you can use a 'T' and have the gauge and idiot light. Many folks will only run copper line for this. I've used the plastic, but run it through rubber hose for protection. Bleed the air out of the line on initial start up for good readings. You will need to get your temp probe into the coolant and the best is either to give up your front passenger side 'idiot light' location or source the correct 3/8" square tool to turn out the plug in the now rear drivers side opposite head(a 1/2" to 3/8" socket adapter is generally not 'sharp' enough/too loose and not up to the job). This can be a tough task and requiring heat-good luck. Dan Mpls. Mn.

Thanks Dan, some very good info there. I will try to find the correct tool for that job as I prefer not to lose my idiot lights. Do you know the correct size for the 'T' on the oil line hookup? I suppose it will be apparent once I remove the current sender.

I got the holder/pod in the mail yesterday. A quick test fit revealed that the larger gauges will fit, but it will take much more effort than I originally thought. I haven't tried to find a pod large enough for the bigger gauges, but I have a feeling from those items I did see that it may be much more expensive. That leads me to believe that I will be putting forth the effort to make them fit in the pod I have. I don't have a lot of money to invest, but I do have time, so that is the way I will probably go.

Okay, after some more thought on the subject, I may try to build my own custom console out of this stuff:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Medium-Density-Fiberboard-Common-1-4-in-x-2-ft-x-4-ft-Actual-0-216-in-x-23-75-in-x-47-75-in-1508104/202089069?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-202089064-_-202089069-_-N

I've seen some projects on YouTube and I think it would be much easier and cheaper in the long run. Even if I am able to open the holes in that pod, it won't leave much, if any, place for the gauge brackets to secure the gauges to the pod. The other alternative would be smaller gauges, but I really like the size of the ones I bought.

I would like to design the console so that the gauges are easy to view and install. Of course a couple of cup holders are mandatory these days and the tray for loose items would also be nice. The MDF can be painted to match the interior and construction with wood glue and some 2x2 braces should be sufficient. Should be easy enough to find some metal 'L' brackets to secure it to the floor. Only part that concerns me there is the rear heat channel/tunnel which runs on the top of the transmission hump, but I should be able to design it wide enough to avoid that area.

Again, any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

Since you have to go custom, I would suggest using this area, and making the bracket out of steel. And since you are really concerned with temp, I would leave out the volt meter, which to me is not of significant value during operation.

Thanks for the input John, I'm really not much on fabricating steel or metal of most any kind. I don't mind working with wood and plastic though. I will give some thought to the placement, but the primary reason I chose the transmission hump was to keep a more clean look to it. The area you mention is a good place as far as nothing else being there, but as the e-brake is there, it would mean attaching it to the dash and I really want to avoid that.

I am forming my opinions from other people's pics on this thread...

Be really careful Doug. You run a serious risk of turning a beautiful car like this:

Into something that looks like somebody from this family should be driving it:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No worries. I want to retain the ability to have the car be completely stock should I ever desire it. That is why I want to mount the gauges in the console.