Help identifying, Please

This car is identified by the owner as a 1936 touring. It is four door, and from the front and rear windows I am thinking it is a 1938 Packard Eight Four Door Touring model. But the vents on the vertical hood pieces don't have the second section of grille, and the badges are gone from the front bumper bolts. Unfortunately I don't have any better pictures......I just took a couple as 'roadside scenery' and then began thinking seriously about it later on. Owner is supposed to be sending me some, but isn't in a rush to sell.

Anyway, Am i right that it's a 1938 Packard Eight Four Door Touring model? If not, can you tell me what it is?

I would say 38 because of solid roof, 38 was first year of all steel body on Jr. cars. Floor shift -39 column shift -39

It might be a Touring Sedan but wouldn't be referred to as simply a "Touring", which would be an open car. If you can get the numbers off the plaque on the firewall we can identify it exactly.

The strip (that's missing) from the top of the windshield to the top indicates 1938. Touring (by itself) is an older term not used in 1938. The only open cars were convertibles, and convertible sedans.

The two-piece windshield (with the strip onto the roof above it as already mentioned) is also a clue since earlier models had a single piece windshield.

The strip (that's missing) from the top of the windshield to the top indicates 1938. Touring (by itself) is an older term not used in 1938. The only open cars were convertibles, and convertible sedans.

West and Packard Don, I agree that the strip between the two windshield pieces is a definitive clue, though i'm not sure what part of it is missing (I'd appreciate it if you could expand on that).....and I stand corrected on the Touring Sedan vs Touring question. That was carelessness on my part, but on the side of the hood the little chrome louvre pieces are shown in the brochure for 1938 as being a short piece closest the nose and then a long strip from there back, while this car only has one strip of louvre running from the nose back. Is that significant, or a change in production? I did see that for some other years there were a number of short pieces and no long strip, so it seemed to change for style reasons.

The bright work at the center of the windshield and the little strip above it, the latter being only on 1938 models, are either missing or they are blacked-out for whatever reason. Although it's difficult to tell in the photo, but there also appears to be a bit of chrome either missing or also blacked-out at the front side of the hood panel. My real expertise goes back to 1939, which was the year of my first Packard, but 1938 was very similar other than a few details such as the hood panels and probably the bumpers and wheel cover style. 1937 and older, however, were totally different with single piece windshields and a much squarer body with the insert rather than steel roof.

Brochures, by the way, often do not depict actual production details as they are printed before the cars get to the showrooms.

Thank you guys, especially Don. That is very helpful.

Your welcome but really, West and the others are the actual experts here! I just plugged-in my two-cents worth.

Your welcome but really, West is the actual expert here! I just plugged-in my two-cents worth.

Both of you are knowlegeable AND helpful. THANK YOU!

From PackardInfo - http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/modelinfo/viewmodel.php?model=887

Yes it a 38, the high fender are the give away for me, 37 are much lower, more European in side view.

I have more pictures now, and one clearly shows that the engine is a six cylinder. So it's a 1938 Packard Six Touring Sedan? Correct?

Yes, its species number would be 1182. Wheelbase should be 122".

Thanks Everybody. your patience is very much appreciated.

GoinSouth, one thing you mention in your other thread is the desire to take the car over the road and perhaps tow a trailer. A couple of considerations here - there is obviously a difference in power between the 6 and the 8 cylinder Jr. cars, although I have not had one myself, I understand the 6 is pretty stout. I am just not certain that is the right combination for your plans.

I do know on the 39 1701, or 120 series cars, you had a choice of differentials. I had the "highway" gearing on mine, making it comfortable at 60-65 ish while I know of other '39 models that were more comfortable at the 50 - 55 MPH range. I am not knowledgeable enough to know how you find that out, other than via test drive. Not sure it was an available option on the 6 cylinder cars. Once in a while you see an applicable overdrive set up come up for sale but again, not sure you can use on the 6; someone here likely knows though.

But I mention so you can noodle that a bit against your plans. Personally I like the 110 - 115 cars, if I bought another Packard a '37 115 club Sedan would be high on the list, but not for long hauls over the road.

Thanks Steve. That is the sort of invaluable advice you can only get by asking the man who owns one, or alternatively by asking the great guys on this forum.

Since the cars are about the same weight the extra 20 hp would definitely be a good thing.

Thanks Steve. That is the sort of invaluable advice you can only get by asking the man who owns one, or alternatively by asking the great guys on this forum.

Since the cars are about the same weight the extra 20 hp would definitely be a good thing.

Further to this, we now can say that at some point someone swapped the eight cylinder engine for the six. How big a deal is this?....Obviously it makes it ineligible for restoration or consideration as authentic, but then again it's value is not really as a showable car......it would be a huge deal if the car was a Twelve......If I somehow located a 1938 eight cylinder would converting it back be a big job or was this just a bolt-on conversion?

You could put a V8 into it but there is no way that a straight 8 would fit. It's exactly two cylinders too long for the shorter 122" wheelbase compared with the eight's 127". The extra length was on the front chassis, hood and fenders.

That said, the six should be perfectly suited for pulling a small teardrop trailer. My 1940 110 would "lay rubber" and that was without the lower ratio rear end. With the lower rear end and overdrive you could cruise all day pulling the trailer.

No, likely no one swapped in a six. It was born that way. An 8 won't fit. The frame as well as the hood and front fenders are shorter than the 8 chassis. My step dad owns a '40 Six and a '40 8. He prefers driving the 6. In his opinion it is "snappier". I have driven 8's but never a 6. Being a 6 might hurt resale value but like you said that is not a consideration.

You could put a V8 into it but there is no way that a straight 8 would fit. It's exactly two cylinders too long for the shorter 122" wheelbase compared with the eight's 127". The extra length was on the front chassis, hood and fenders.

That said, the six should be perfectly suited for pulling a small teardrop trailer. My 1940 110 would "lay rubber" and that was without the lower ratio rear end. With the lower rear end and overdrive you could cruise all day pulling the trailer.

I need to be more clear.....the wheelbase measures as 127" which makes it an Eight, and the Hubcaps and hood Louvers match the Eight. So I now think it's a 1938 Packard Eight 4 door Touring Sedan, with a six cylinder Packard engine transplant.

Thanks everybody for your patience. If anybody has a different dimension or feature to check I'd be glad to do it to confirm this, but after searching all over the Packardinfo site, I believe the 127" wheelbase dimension is definitive to tell us whether it's a Six or an Eight.

West and Packard Don, I agree that the strip between the two windshield pieces is a definitive clue, though i'm not sure what part of it is missing (I'd appreciate it if you could expand on that).....and I stand corrected on the Touring Sedan vs Touring question. That was carelessness on my part, but on the side of the hood the little chrome louvre pieces are shown in the brochure for 1938 as being a short piece closest the nose and then a long strip from there back, while this car only has one strip of louvre running from the nose back. Is that significant, or a change in production? I did see that for some other years there were a number of short pieces and no long strip, so it seemed to change for style reasons.

Further on this, I think the short piece of chrome closest the radiator is missing on the passenger side....the driver's side photo clearly shows it.

It seems unlikely unless some serious changes were made to the chassis. The mounts from the transmission and engine are simply too far apart! Is it possible you miscounted? If you're sure of the wheelbase, that seems far more likely.

Gonesouth, if you can provide a profile pic it will be evident as Restorer said the difference in wheelbase is all nose - the bodyshell is the same. The difference is pronounced. If you do have a true 120 model that had a 6 swapped in and you like the car you have an upper hand in terms of negotiating, and can go on the hunt for a 282 straight 8.

The model designation is on a tag on the cowl anyway, get that and we can tell you what you have stumbled on.

As has been said, while I cannot say I have experience with the six I do know a couple of local Sr. Packard guys who really like them. (I may get my chance - waiting for a buddy who has a '40 110 to finish it, now in black paint, too bad he didn't keep the original green, but he may sell it after 30 years of working on it off and on)

Unusual that someone would replace an 8 with a 6. Must be a lot of room under that hood. Yep, the 127" is definitive.

If you could list the engine number and number from the firewall plate, the information will tell far more than guessing or even measuring.

Good point from Packard Don. If someone lunched a 282 you would more likely see a chevy in there than a Packard 6, given the alterations one would need to make. No collector would do that and no hot rodder type would. And the one pic this guy gave you was head on! :eek:

Assuming it's a 1938 and made in Detroit, there probably won't be a vehicle number to read on the cowl, 1938 ONLY used a decal which has probably turned to dust by now. Exception is the 1938 Canadian production which continued to use a metal tag to record the vehicle number.

I had forgotten that tidbit but the engine number would at least tell us what it is.

It seems unlikely unless some serious changes were made to the chassis. The mounts from the transmission and engine are simply too far apart! Is it possible you miscounted? If you're sure of the wheelbase, that seems far more likely.

Steve, The sideview i have is from the nose area and it's impossible to determine the body/bonnet ratio from that. I'll try to get a better sideview. The tag must have been a decal as there is no visible trace now.

It looks just like the rebuilt '40 110 engine in my shop. If it's 6 cylinder, then the wheelbase must be 122". No other scenario would match or even be possible.

The engine number is stamped into the block, probably at the upper edge just under the head on the left (driver) side. If you can't find it, packardinfo.com can give you the exact location. Its location varies from year to year and I've never owned a '38.

Looking at the photo of the engine, I see five plugs with the fifth to the left being just behind the carburetor and the other four are to the front of it. Since the carburetor is near the center, that leaves room for three more cylinders that are not visible. My bet would be that it's an eight.

Well I count at least 7 plug wires also I just looked at my 38 8 cyl from the same angle as the picture and they look the same- ergo I would say it's an 8

Well I count at least 7 plug wires also I just looked at my 38 8 cyl from the same angle as the picture and they look the same- ergo I would say it's an 8

OK, that makes sense. I had looked at the pictures on packardinfo and the ancillary stuff (carb and horns) on the six cylinder looked like this while the stuff on the eight cylinder was different. So after counting five plugs I jumped to the idea it was a six. So barring further information to say different do we all agree that it is a 1938 Packard Eight 4 door Touring Sedan?

It can't be anything else but whether it's the original type engine or a later one, only the engine number would help decide.

It's a Sixteenth Series 8 Touring Sedan Model 1192. Factory list price $1525.