Headlights AND parking lights on in a '63?

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to wire things on a '63 so that the parking lamps remain on when the headlamps are on? I know it's not factory correct but I was wondering if there's an uncomplicated way to do it.

Thanks/

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to wire things on a '63 so that the parking lamps remain on when the headlamps are on? I know it's not factory correct but I was wondering if there's an uncomplicated way to do it.

Thanks/

Not sure about the 63, but the 64's stayed on when the headlights were on as "running lights." If you selected the parking light position with your light switch, the light would illuminate in the amber color. If you pulled the switch all the way out to the headlight position, the amber light would convert to white (or clear) light automatically. If you wanted the amber light all the time, all you have to do is change the bulb. Having the running lights on with the headlights looks cool. By the way, if you turned on your high beams, the running light would automatically turn off. The 64's were wired this way from the factory and I assume the 63's should be the same.

Pat

I've discovered what I think is a mid year production change in the '63 Riviera. I have aomw housinga from '63 that have two bulbs in them and some housings that have thee bulbs in them. The '64 has a relay on the inner fender that helps with what Pat describes above; I've yet to see a '63 with that relay. But, all that says it that I haven't seen one; they could be out there. As you can see, the number of bulbs is different but the number of wires is the same. The one housing uses a dual filament bulb so there are two wires going into one socket. In the other housing there are two bulbs but only one wire going to each socket. There's still a dual filament socket in the housing but only one wire going to it. I believe that you use a dual filament bulb in that socket but only one of the filaments is used. Both of the housings have a "63" date on them. I can't read the part number from the picture and these housing are tucked away in the shed. I'll dig them out and post the part numbers in a day or so. If anyone has additional information on these housings, please chime it. I do not know if the color of the bulbs in the housings as show is correct.

I am in the process of ensuring the parking lamps on my '64 are correct. My housing looks exactly like the one pictured on the right (top and bottom bulb are 1155 and the middle is 1157A). My car also has the cornering lamp sockets mounted in the fourth hole as well. I verified the bulb types with both the service and owner's manual. The wiring diagram for the '64 also shows only one wire going to the directional lamp socket (which houses the dual filament 1157A). This proves that only one filament was used from this bulb in '64 Rivieras. Other Buicks used both filaments. For the record the date code of my housings are 1963, and my car's build date is second week of December 1963.

Did you get a part # from them? That might help narrow down things a bit. Perhaps someone with access to part numbers can tell us for sure if the '63 stamped part was used on the '64 models.

I'll have to check my '63, built 2E, and see what kind of housings are in it,

Ed

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to wire things on a '63 so that the parking lamps remain on when the headlamps are on? I know it's not factory correct but I was wondering if there's an uncomplicated way to do it.

Thanks/

From what's been posted, it might be easiest to get a pair of '64 housings and wire them so they work like you want. Or you could wire then so the one light stays on constantly and could be used as a daytime driving light.

You could probably put a socket in the cornering lamp hole and use it for your purposes.

Ed

Did you get a part # from them? That might help narrow down things a bit. Perhaps someone with access to part numbers can tell us for sure if the '63 stamped part was used on the '64 models.

I'll have to check my '63, built 2E, and see what kind of housings are in it,

Ed

Here are some pics of the driver's side assembly. The passenger is identical but has the cornering lamp pointing in the opposite direction. One says "LH" (left-hand) and the other says "RH" (right-hand). I believe that these housings are original to the car. The build date is 12B.

Very interesting thread guys. I have a very original `64 on hand and will check the parking light assemblies. I have a sneeking suspicion a change was made in `64 to accommodate legislation involving amber signal lenses/bulbs. I recall a service bulletin which addressed this. I vaguely remember something about the state of California being involved but I could be mistaken. Cool detail.

Ed, I recall you being the first person that brought this to light and I recall doing a little research but cant remember the details?? Seems my conclusion was simply that Buick added a parking light bulb to the assembly?

Tom Mooney

Ed, I recall you being the first person that brought this to light and I recall doing a little research but cant remember the details?? Seems my conclusion was simply that Buick added a parking light bulb to the assembly?

Tom Mooney

Here's a link to the discussion (at least one of them anyway):

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/quick-electrical-question-351875.html

I also re-read the 1964 service manual. My copy was published in 1963. On page 10-48 the front parking turn signal lights are described exactly the way the '63s worked. There it explained that the dual filament 1157A was used as both a parking and turn signal indicator. It also discussed the lower parking lamp used exclusively on Rivieras. I assume the service bulletin that Tom describes reflected the changes that we see on '64s, which was after the publication of my manual....or could there actually be early '64s with the '63 set-up????

Hi folks,

My thread kind of sidetracked into a related discussion, so in an attempt to refocus it, has anyone had any experience or have any knowledge on what exactly would be involved in making those beautiful parking lamps on my '63 light up when the headlights are on. Short of buying '64 units, as Ed suggested? Thanks again!

Hi Jan, I'm mostly to blame for the hijacking of your thread. Sorry:(

I can't think of a quick and dirty way to do this without some rewiring and the use of a relay that is energized when you select your headlamps. Ed's suggestion is fairly straight forward regarding the hard wiring of the parking lamps to be always on, but I was wondering how difficult it would be to use the 12VDC going to the headlamps when they are on to energize the coil of a 2 pole (contact) 12VDC relay which in turn allows this same 12VDC (when supplied to each contact of the relay) to still be present at each of housing for the parking lights? Just a thought as this would allow the parking lights to be controlled by the headlight switch AND be on with and without the headlamps being selected. I know I'm making it sound simpler than it probably is but I hope you get the idea.

No worries at all, Darren, on the thread. I certainly wouldn't say it was hijacked because your info is very interesting as well! I'm a kind of visual guy so a wiring diagram would be helpful, but certainly I'm in no rush. I searched the entire AACA forum and found exactly one thread of owners of older cars wanting to wire things so the parking lamps illuminate w/ the headlights. I thought this would be a more common subject but then again, most cars don't have the parking lamp housing that the '63/'64 Riv did! I just don't want to toast anything by accident. In looking at the '63 shop manual I was wondering if I could just run a correct gauge wire from the parking lights terminal in the headlight switch to the headlights terminal but I don't want to fry anything. I think you're talking about running the parking light wires straight to the ignition coil, right? And adding a relay?

Thanks!

I haven't looked closely at the wiring diagrams for a '63 yet, just had the concept come to me after you post. I was thinking more along the lines of tapping off the hot wire at one of the headlights and sending this voltage to a 12VDC relay that can handle the current draw of the parking lights. The coil I am speaking of is part this relay, and is what allows the contacts of the relay to close, which will then send 12VDC to the parking light housings through the closed contacts of the relay when the headlights are on. I can draw something up for you and post it so it will be easier to understand. My idea will require some wiring and research to obtain the correct relay, but I believe it will be safe to do. Does it make more sense now?

By the way, if you parallel wire the parking lights with the headlights your headlights will most likely be lit when you select parking lights and it may overheat the parking light circuit in your headlight switch! But the parking lamps are relatively low current so the headlamp circuit should be able to handle them alright I believe. You should probably fuse things to make sure they are protected too. You can also change the type of lamps in the parking light sockets, as long as they have the same base (there are many wattage types out there).

By the way, if you parallel wire the parking lights with the headlights your headlights will most likely be lit when you select parking lights and it may overheat the parking light circuit in your headlight switch! But the parking lamps are relatively low current so the headlamp circuit should be able to handle them alright I believe. You should probably fuse things to make sure they are protected too. You can also change the type of lamps in the parking light sockets, as long as they have the same base (there are many wattage types out there).

You'd have to see what amperage the parking lamp draws before thinking about a relay; it might not be that much more. Installing a diode in line would only let the current go one way. Or if you're wiring the parking lamps to the headlights, just do away with the parking lamps.

Or run the parking lamps into the cornering lamp hole and create new wires to operate the "used to be" parking lights to operate with your headlights.

Jan,

It is simple to rewire the parking lights to come on with the headlights. Remove the center console section with the headlight switch so you can access the back of the switch. With a test light, find which wire that sends power to the parking lights. Next find the unused terminal which has power when in the park position and headlight position. Move the wire to that terminal and reassemble. It has been a while since I have done it so I don't remember the wire color for the park/taillights but the test light makes it easy to find. I did this to my 63 when I had it and have done it to my 65 and 66 and have not had any problems.

Jan,

It is simple to rewire the parking lights to come on with the headlights. Remove the center console section with the headlight switch so you can access the back of the switch. With a test light, find which wire that sends power to the parking lights. Next find the unused terminal which has power when in the park position and headlight position. Move the wire to that terminal and reassemble. It has been a while since I have done it so I don't remember the wire color for the park/taillights but the test light makes it easy to find. I did this to my 63 when I had it and have done it to my 65 and 66 and have not had any problems.

Now that sounds like the easiest route to take Jan. I understand your desire to use these lights as much as possible. They really are cool and are a feature that makes the 63-64 Rivs very unique indeed!

Thanks, Kevin and Darren. That sounds like a good plan. I'll let you know how I make out and report back. A few to-dos on another of my old cars first.

Hi Kevin - quick question. On the '63, when you say "remove the center console section with the headlight switch" how involved is that? Does the entire chrome console trim have to come out? The shop manual says to get to the h/l switch via the small lower dash access panel to the right of the steering column, but I guess that won't give me a level of access I need. I also know about the pushpin thingie (technical term) to release the headlight switch shaft.

Thanks!

Jan,

I haven't owned my 63 for about 10 years now so I don't remember how I got to the switch. I would follow the shop manual and go through the access panel ( which is how I probably did it ) .

Jan, I just accessed mine yesterday. I am going to try the switching of the wires on the switch as my front parking lights do not come on when the switch is pulled to the parking light position. I will try this first instead of buying a new switch. I think the parking lights on with the headlights on will be cool. Open the ashtray/lighter door in the console.There are 3 screws holding the assembly in, remove the screws. That whole assembly will remove and the headlight switch is right there. Remove the shaft using the pushpin thingy. You then remove the switch escutcheon. I did not have the switch tool so I used a putty knife to turn it. Once the switch is released from the escutcheon the switch drops down for easy access through the opening left by the ashtray assembly. I hope this helps. Bill

Thanks, Bill, for the advice - mission accomplished. That is by far the best way to access the headlight switch. What the image of the switch in the Chassis Service Manual on page 10-46 does NOT show is the extra terminal, which is between the 'taillights fuse' tab and the 'instrument lights' tab, or directly opposite the 'headlight/dimmer switch' tab. It was a bit of an effort to extract the parking light wire and end terminal from the white plastic connector block, but once done it was fairly simple to reconnect to that eighth terminal position. The wire just reaches that terminal if the headlight switch is close enough to its installed position.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Jan, I'm glad it worked out for you. I solved my problem also and it was not the headlight switch. Now that I have everything apart I will switch to the other terminal as well Bill

...It was a bit of an effort to extract the parking light wire and end terminal from the white plastic connector block, but once done it was fairly simple to reconnect to that eighth terminal position. The wire just reaches that terminal if the headlight switch is close enough to its installed position.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Glad to hear about your success. Now you have those cool parking lamp "lanterns" that everyone will notice

Darren

Glad to hear it, Bill. And great picture, Darren. It's still broad daylight here, but first chance I get...

Jan, I got my car hooked up and back together. I'm sure that you will discover this on your own. As we know the parking lights work with the headlights on but, I discovered that they will come on in the parking light position as they originally did also. Bill

Yes, I did notice that - cool! Time soon to take it on a dusk test run - I'll probably jump out at every red light just to admire those lights! Thanks again for the wonderful advice and helpful tips! It's what this forum is all about.

I'am bringing this old topic to the surface just for a second. I have no luck in finding the parking light relay that is used in 64... I have searched in ebay, oldbuicsparts, opgi, nothing... Does anyone know good link for this relay? Any information is appreciated.

               I can probably come up with a relay that will work if you will post a wiring diagram for it showing which wire goes where and

how many wires and prongs and what color wires.

This is from wiring diagram and I will get picture of the socket later

OK, it's a simple single throw relay with two wires going to it that get's it's ground from the case of the relay being bolted to the body.

What does the relay look like? Is it a three prong arranged in a triangle with only two of the prongs used, or some other configuration?  Can you post a pic of it?

Not stock but here are a couple of modern relays from a 2009 Mazda..........compact about 1 X 1 x 1/2 .....they plugged into a socket on the Mazda but female spade terminals will slip on the terminals.

The silver terminals are the coil.........the copper terminals are the contact.    It appears they are 25 amp

After reviewing the schematic,  the relay makes no sense.......it is not taking the load off anything.   Why not just connect the tan and parking light wire together and eliminate the relay?

It adds the current used for the coil.    A relay could be used but the wiring needs to be revised.

Here is the way I think the relay should be wired but you need a 4 terminal relay......and another wire from a 12v source that is fused.

On our older cars,  many owners are adding relays to the headlights to take the load off the headlight switch...which are getting harder to find and replace.

There are examples on Pinterest   showing how to wire in relays to relieve the load on old car electrical components.

Here is a link....https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=relays for headlights&rs=typed&term_meta[]=relays for headlights|typed

I disagree that there is a need for an external ground wire if you want to wire it like Barney suggested

to relieve load on the headlamp switch. You can use a 1965 Riviera headlight motor main relay to accomplish

what Barney is suggesting and it gets it's ground from the inner fender of the car, no need to run a ground wire. That

relay is GM part no. 1365166 or Delco no. 15-8172. It is an old fashioned  heavy duty relay so it wouldn't look out of place on your car.

To wire it up, you would wire the tan wire to terminal 4 on the relay(the prong off by itself) , then hook the  constant 12 volt wire you added to the circuit to

terminal 1 on the relay,  and then hook the wire going to your parking lamps to terminal 3. Terminal 2 would be unused. An electrical supply company

could provide you with correct plastic terminal holders ........an individual one for terminal 4 and a triangular one for the other two wires. When you

got done it would look like the factory did it.I didn't mention the color of the wire going to terminal 3 because your wiring diagram picture doesn't show

the color of the park lamp wires. (I'm assuming those are chocolate brown if they are like other GM cars of the era.) I just checked and GM has discontinued these relays, just recently, but you can buy aftermarket ones from an Auto Supply store, or you can

just go online and order an aftermarket main relay for the 65 Riviera headlamp motor. They are always listed on ebay when you click on 1965 Riviera parts.

3 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

After reviewing the schematic,  the relay makes no sense.......it is not taking the load off anything.   Why not just connect the tan and parking light wire together and eliminate the relay?

It's not designed to take a load off anything; it's there to keep the parking lights on with the headlights.  IIRC, the headlight switch turns off the parking lights when the headlights are turned on, so the relay allows them to change the way the lights work without requiring a new switch.

If you connect the parking lights directly to the tan wire, the headlights will come on with the parking lights.  That is, you lose the ability to have the parking lights alone.

Agree with Konga man, but it would be less load on the light switch if it was wired as Barney suggested.

     I checked local suppliers and the 65 main headlight relay is not something anybody local stocks anymore, but you

can buy it from Rock Auto in the Standard brand part no. RY8. They are 8.26 each from Rock Auto.

43 minutes ago, Seafoam65 said:

Agree with Konga man, but it would be less load on the light switch if it was wired as Barney suggested.

There would be less load on the light switch if the harness were modified to add relays for the headlights as well.   That would leave the switch carrying the current for only the tail and dash lights.  As a practical matter, if the goal is to save the switch, putting relays on the headlights is about 95% of the battle.

Seafoam, did I understand correctly that the R3461 is bolt on 2 terminal replacment for original? Or is this 4 terminal?

             No, that relay has 4 terminals and would be wired like I said above with an additional 12 volt wire and 

you would be using 3 of the four terminals. If you don't want to wire it the way Barney suggested, post a pic of your old relay and

I'll see what I can come up with.

OK now I understand what the relay is for.

You can inturpit my revision drawing to be 4 terminal if the coil is NOT grounded to the metal case of an old style relay.

Yes it could be a 3 terminal if the coil is grounded to the case.