Holley 600 on my 322 Nailhead

Hi,

I’m the lucky owner of an 56 Buick and have just bought an new Holley 600 carburetor (4160) for my 322 (4bbl) nailhead, but I have unfortunately bought the wrong adapter. Can anyone advise me what can be the right adapter?

BR

Niels Graversen

Denmark

Hi,

I’m the lucky owner of an 56 Buick and have just bought an new Holley 600 carburetor (4160) for my 322 (4bbl) nailhead, but I have unfortunately bought the wrong adapter. Can anyone advise me what can be the right adapter?

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BR

Niels Graversen

Denmark

Both your intake and your Holley are square bore carbs. The only difference is the carb flange bolt pattern. I'm not aware of any adapters available for that.

To answer your question:

The adapter would be Trans-Dapt 692064. I do not know if Trans-Dapt is still in business.

Other information:

You will NOT be happy using the modern square-bore on the early manifold. I don't know if a 1961 or newer intake will fit your engine; but if it will, and you HAVE to have the Holley, changing the intake is the way to go.

A 1956 Buick Carter, 1956 Buick Rochester, or 1954 Buick Stromberg ALL will bolt on to your existing manifold; idle better, have better driveability, more power, and get much better fuel economy than what you have purchased running through the adapter. If you change the manifold, the Holley might produce more power, but everything else in the preceding sentence would still be true.

Jon.

The adapter would be Trans-Dapt 692064. I do not know if Trans-Dapt is still in business.

Yes they are. Google is your friend.

The current number is 2064, $35.30 (WOW!)

http://www.tdperformance.com/Carburetor-Adapters

Hi Joe,

Thank you, and you are right google knows J

Now I have bought a new holly I think it is worth try buying this adapter and test it

BR

Niels

Mr Carbking;

Why is the Holley such a bad choice for the 322?

Keith

Manifolds for 364 and 401s will not fit a 322. When I was a youngster I bought a 4 barrel manifold and carb for my 57, spent untold hours polishing it and it did not fit. The junk man said nice job kid and gave me the right one in grungy condition.

Pat

Mr Carbking;

Why is the Holley such a bad choice for the 322?

Keith

Read post number 3; but if you like Holleys, go for it.

Jon.

Right, I did read post 3, that's why I asked the question. I don't have any particular love of Holley's, but some folks do, I just wondered why you think they are such a poor choice.

They just don't work as well for general use then?

Keith

Keith - if you watch NASCAR, think restrictor plate. The original manifold will only let so much through. The newer carbs have a different center line on the throttle bores than the older carbs, so the adapter has to change the direction of the A/F mixture as well as allow for the different bolt pattern. And the calibration of the original carb (Carter, Rochester, or Stromberg) would be designed by the factory engineers to be correct for the 322. I am sure many on this forum are capable of doing recalibrations, but why bother. You still have to contend with the "restrictor plate" and the change of direction. And you still possibly have linkage concerns, possibly a new fuel line, and probably a different air cleaner. Not saying the Holley is a "bad" or "poor" choice. It just doesn't seem like the best choice.

Jon.

There is a thread in the BCA Forums on putting an Edelbrock AFB (formerly "Carter AFB") on a '55 (I believe) Buick V-8. I believe those Edelbrocks (as many Carter AFBs before them) have the "small pattern" and "Holley pattern" square bore baseplate on them. That way, the Edelbrocks will be a direct-fit carb for those engines with the smaller bolt pattern. You might check it out. It did take a little tweaking, but the owner was happy with the results.

The adapter you picture is for putting a Quadrajet spreadbore carb on a squarebore (larger "Holley" bolt pattern) manifold. "Spreadbore" carb has 1.375" primaries and 2.25" secondaries, whereas the "squarebore" carbs have either the same size throttle bores on all four "holes" or possibly slightly smaller primaries (i.e., 1.56/1.56, 1.56/1.69, 1.69/1.69 . . . primaries and secondaries, respectfully).

The OTHER question is WHICH Holley 4160 you have purchased??? The 0-1850 Holley 600cfm 4bbl was originally OEM production for many later 1950s Ford/Mercury/Edsel/Lincoln V-8s. What is NOW sold as that carb number is a completely UNIVERSAL-fit carb. The fuel calibration is now, generally, for a Chevy small block V-8, electric chokes are necessary (considering how the original Ford chokes were modulated), etc. In other words, it's going to take a good bit of re-calibration to really work right on your engine . . . manifold base bolt pattern not considered. The Holley 0-1850 carb is their "low price leader" carb as more specialized-application OEM-replacement carbs can be over $300.00 . . . and still not bolt to your existing intake manifold.

I strongly suggest you check out the Edelbrock AFB thread I mentioned above. Lots of good information there! Plus investigate returning or swapping the Holley for an Edelbrock with an electric choke .

Regards,

NTX5467

Willis - the Carter AFB's (first AFB 1957) had the smaller rectangular pattern, probably the e-clones do also. The manifold in the OP's first post is the 1952~1956 almost square pattern (3 3/4 inch by 3 7/8 inch). Still going to need an adapter for the older manifold pattern.

Note the adapter in Joe's post 7 shows three patterns. The inner pattern fits the OP's manifold, the middle pattern (the so-called "Carter" pattern) would fit most AFB's, and the outer pattern is the so-called "Holley" pattern.

Jon.

Here's ONE thing which is making me consider "other than Holley" 4bbl carbs in the future. There are LOTS of videos on YouTube about how ethanol dries out rubber fuel system lines and such, from the inside out (on the rubber fuel lines). When that happens, fuel seeps and leaks happen. Although many fuel pump diaphrams are made of a ethanol-resistant rubber, if they allegedly are allowed to "dry out" (when in storage, possibly, and other periods of non-use), the rubber diaphragm becomes more brittle and can fail. NOW, consider where the accelerator pump is on almost ALL Holley 4150/4160 4bbl carbs and also on the Holley 2300 2bbls . . . in the bottom of the float bowl, so they gravity-feed the bolt-on accelerator pump housing. Should THAT diaphragm fail, the float bowl can "empty" onto the intake manifold . . . a manifold that can be very warm. If that happens, hopefully the fuel will just evaporate and hot ignite! To me, the fact that Edelbrock or Carter AFBs, and Rochester 4G_ models all have fully-internal accelerator pump systems CAN be huge selling points for those carbs over ANY Holley (other than possibly the pre-4160 "teapot" used on pre-57 Fords. NOT to forget that the Rochesters CarbKing mentioned are OEM-production Buick carbs means they are much more bolt-on-ready carbs whose fuel calibration curves match your engine MUCH better as is. Plus more-correct throttle linkage hook-ups.

A Holley 4bbl might make a little more horsepower than a Edelbrock/Carter or Rochester, BUT that top-rpm power happens at "top rpm" rather than where most people normally drive. "On the street", what's more important is throttle response and "clean running", which if everything's "right", the OEM Carters and Rochesters will do just fine, as they did when the vehicles were newer.

Regards,

NTX5467

The new E-brock carbs, which are Carter clones, have both bolt patterns and will bolt diectly in place of the 4GC. I prefer the E-brock for the street. My experience with Holley carbs is that they are very good for making HP at wide open throttle but not so good at part throttle response that you need for driving in traffic.

Jon makes an excellent point about matching carb and intake. Adapter plates cause flow disruption, which at best costs HP and at worst creates metering problems.

Will the car run with the Holley and adapter? Sure. Will you get all the performance you paid for? Not so much. You WILL need to optimize jetting to match the carb to your engine. Aftermarket carbs are jetted for a modern Chevy motor from the factory, as that is where most of them end up. You will need to understand what it takes to rejet the carb to suit your application. I will say that the E-brock carb runs better out of the box on off-brand motors in my experience. The fact that you already paid for the Holley doesn't make it the right carb for your application.

Here is a picture of mounting gaskets for the 3 different flange sizes:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Four_barrel_mounting_gaskets.jpg

The upper left gasket (a.k.a. square pattern) fits the manifold of the original poster

The lower left gasket is the smaller rectangular pattern (a.k.a. Carter pattern)

The upper right gasket is the larger rectanular pattern (a.k.a. Holley pattern)

The lower right gasket shows both the small and large rectangular patterns

The "square pattern" was used on vehicles from 1952 to about 1956 (most) and as late as 1975 by I.H.C.

Carburetors which have the "square" pattern in alphabetic order:

Carter WCFB (early production)

Holley 2140

Holley 4000

Rochester 4-GC (early production)

Stromberg 4A

Adapter exist to install carbs with either rectangular pattern on the "square" pattern, HOWEVER:

While not intuitively obvious from the picture, the center lines of the throttle bores were relocated to accomodate the larger throttle bores. The center lines moved apart sideways 1/4 inch. This means the adapter is necessary to not only change the bolt pattern, but also to alter the direction of the air/fuel mixture. The air/fuel mixture is not happy with going around corners, and the mixture becomes more dense at the apex of the corner, thus REDUCING the total amount of mixture from the normal rating of the carburetor.

Jon.

The "square pattern" was used on vehicles from 1952 to about 1956 (most) and as last as 1975 by I.H.C.

Carburetors which have the "square" pattern in alphabetic order:

Carter WCFB (early production)

Holley 2140

Holley 4000

Rochester 4-GC (early production)

Stromberg 4A

Thanks for that. I was not aware that the early 4GC used the smaller WCFB bolt pattern.

Thank you for all the replays.

I’m very pleas that so many do have opinions about this and contribute with experience. If I sell the Holley and buy another carburettor can someone help with a more specific link to exact new carburettor so that I choose the right one this time!

I have measures the distance between the bolts and I think you are right Jon it is (96mm by 98mm) approx.: (3 3/4 inch by 3 7/8 inch)

Preferable will of cause be a carburettor there fit directly but the adapter solution is also accepted.

BR

Niels

Thanks for adding to our knowledge of 4bbl carb bolt patterns, Jon! Do you have any information of which manifold casting numbers go with which of the smaller-pattern carbs?

Thanks,

NTX5467

Niels - there are absolutely no carburetors being produced today that will work as well as a professionally reconditioned original.

My first choice would be:

Carter 2347s or Rochester 7009200 (both original equipment in 1956)

Second choice would be:

Carter 2358s (late 1955), Rochester 7009100 (late 1955) or Stromberg 7-98 (1954).

Any of the above would fit manifold, linkage, and air cleaner; and be calibrated for your engine.

Jon.

Willis - sorry, but I don't have manifold casting numbers other than multiple carburetor. For that information:

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Multiplecarbmanifolds.htm

The information could probably be acquired by checking with a Hollanders interchange manual.

Jon.