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Lesson Learned? Better off buying fully restored and functioning vs unrestored and 'functioning'


mrcvs

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Okay, so if you look on the Model A section, I am having one hard time getting this car running! I tried yet again with fresh gas this morning, and it wants to start, but just won't. I got frustrated with this car last year, and it has sat for a year. I bought it two years ago, in running condition, didn't see any problems as it ran without incident. I ran it 5 miles last year (ran it 5 miles since I got it!), and it quit on me the third time I ran it, and here we are today.

Okay, the price on it wasn't bad--fully running Model A, some minor body rot, but the frame is good, the doors don't sag, it did run when I got it. Price was $8,000. Needs painting, old paint job is flaking all over, looks 'okay', not the end of the world!

But, admittedly, I don't enjoy this car much if it doesn't run, not reliable, obviously. But I bought what I could afford. The thinking was, there are a lot of Model A's out there, you can get parts, they are supposedly easy to fix. I hear stories of folks making long runs without incident (several cars), or a simple roadside fix. Seems really hard to believe!

I bought what I could afford at the time. With mortgage payments and stagnant wages, that even was a stretch. But, at least I have a car. However, I am losing interest VERY quickly!!!

So, do you think it is better to not have a car, and hold out for years, even a decade plus, and purchase a car for $25,000, fully running, fully restored, no problems? I am starting to think this is the way I should have gone. At least the hobby would be a fun one instead of a frustrating one. I just don't understand how folks can come up with that sort of money with the economy the way it is. Maybe when the mortgage is paid off, but not now.

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Guest myold88

I think you could have bought a $25,000 restored car and have the same problem. It is frustrating when you can't trust your antique car to be trouble free while driving it even for short distances. I think it's unlikely any of us have had a collector car with "no problems". Keeping these old car running is just part of the hobby.

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Guest cben09

To get a non running car to run,,,,,First you must

TRouble-shoot it,,,,I hear nothing of searching out the trouble,,

Next comes the actual fix or repair

Ray Kuns book,,Trouble shooters guide Ithink 5x7 'bout an inch thick

good book well written an' understandable

Dykes Encyclopedia 18-23 edition big,,but you need not read it all

smilie here

I grew up with farm cars NOT computers

Theres enough motorheads here to get you going

an trouble shoot it,,,JUST-PATIENCE,boy,,remember what grandad told ya

Kunz also wrote a book on the model A,,a pretty complete guide book

See if it will show up on search

Also look for an owners manual, if you dont already have one

Don Lang has 4 men packing model T parts,,someone

is prolly doin same for model A,,

What does the porcelain on the plugs look like,,?

Thats where the fire starts,see if there is a spark at the plug

Good luck,,this is where question an' answer s start

Cheers,,Ben

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I restored my "A" almost 40 years ago and sold it in 2000, something I regret everyday. I invested a lot of money in the '70's and '80's and got only a small portion back. It was a car however, that I could drive anytime, anywhere and I did drive it for hundreds of miles on single trips with no major problems. If a car is restored properly, they should perform like new. Buying an unrestored or poorly restored car can mean trouble. I always look for a car that I intend to fully restore so that the vehicle will operate like I need it to. To do this, or maintain any old car, you must have knowledge. I read every book I could get my hands on before I started the restoration and in doing the restoration myself I learned about the mechanics and quirks of the Model "A"s". All old cars have some inborne problems that you need to be aware of and the Model "A" has it's share. But they are fairly simple and the problems you are having could be basically simple to repair but you first have to find the real problem, which is going to be difficult for you without much knowledge of the vehicle. It's also hard to determine what a problem could be with a written description and not being able to actually see the car. Whether you but a restored car or keep the one you have is redundant if you have no working knowledge of the car you have, as you will encounter problems from time to time. Even learning how to correctly drive a Model "A" is important as they are a car that you have to drive. Spark needs to be adjusted at times, carb adjustments can and should be made when driving conditions change but most people just start them up and go, then wonder why they don't run right. I think that you've already overpaid for a vehicle in less than good condition out of general ignorance and you may have to invest more money to get the car where you want it and unless you can get it to run correctly you may never be happy with it. It might behoove you to sell it and invest in something a little newer that requires less maintenance and mechanical knowledge that you could enjoy more. You could have that mechanic come and look at your car but be prepared to make some investment as he may find other issues that need corrected. Where are you located anyway? I would very much like to help you solve your problem as the Model "A" has always been my first car love. Here's some pics of my truck. While it wasn't 100 percent authentic( I was 17 when I started) is was all stock with no conversions or upgrades.

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Edited by jpage (see edit history)
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It is always a toss-up whether to buy a fully restored vehicle as opposed to a, fixer up vehicle.

A lot of people, just need that "project" in the garage; to be happy.

Some people bite off more than they can handle, on some "projects". And we all know the hidden costs of that, certain part that just seems to be unobtainable. Believe me, we all know that.

But as, myold88, has written, there are no vehicles with "No Problems". They are machines; and machines need maintenance, to perform at the highest degree.

Some vintage vehicles are so rare that you only have 1 chance in a lifetime to obtain one; and you may have to start from the bare frame, so to speak.

But others, higher production models are a different story. Parts are being reproduced, and some in higher quality that the originals, and these parts make the restoration work easier. Your Ford A is an example of that; you only have to go on-line or open a catalog, to just about, find any part.

Many people that restored A's, me included; have either sold our A's or looking to sell them. So, there are A's on the market; but those restorers are looking to recover their costs. Thus the $25,000 A's. But even those A's have to have periodic maintenance. Maybe gunk or worse in the fuel system, bad coil, or other spark problem; whatever.

Look on the bright side, you have a model of a car that is, (compared to others), a lot simpler to operate. The running problem, is likely to be something simple; but it has to be diagnosed properly.

Maybe you can get a local A club, chapter to come and look at your car, as a road trip. Maybe.

intimeold

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So, do you think it is better to not have a car, and hold out for years, even a decade plus, and purchase a car for $25,000, fully running, fully restored, no problems? I am starting to think this is the way I should have gone. .

A $25,000 car is no guarantee that there will "no problems".

I bought a non functioning but complete 1937 Ford (car sat for 50 years).

It took some work and some effort to get it running.

It is running now. So anything is possible.

Trouble shoot, isolate and solve the problems --one by one.

What man has done, man can do.

Good luck with your car and please keep us posted.

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Guest AlCapone

Do you have a local Model A club. Your problem sounds minor but possibly just beyond your expertise. Somebody familiar with Model A Fords will likely have I t going in a few minutes. Wayne

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It comes down to 2 basics - is there spark at the plugs (have someone crank it and short across the top of the plug to the block with an insulated screwdriver- you should be able to jump a spark. Second - is there gas at the carburetor? You should be able to tell because if you crank it and hold the choke closed gas will drip from the carburetor.

If you have both spark and gas then then the spark is coming at the wrong time and you have to time it (very simple - no tools required).....

Haven't touched a Model "A" in over 40 years but I could still do it blindfolded.

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Guest cben09

Gee,,,I'm wondering if annyone told this gentleman about the choke

In the days of automatic spark advance,,automatic choke,,er,,,

THE CHOKE VALVE DOUBLES as a valve//shut off//rich lean valve

It would be easily possible to turn it a bit and lean the mixture to

where it wont run,,turning a little each time you pulled the nob,,,

Thats why there is a small bump on the choke nob,,so you know how

much it is open,,,clockwise to close,,then open 1anna half----2 turns

this all from memory,so check me,,I remember the '25 Dodge better

All for now,,,Ben

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Don't expect a restored car to run perfectly and be free from trouble. I have known more than one rebuilt motor that wasn't rebuilt or had an issue and needed to be rebuilt again because something wasn't done right (and that was a machine shop that rebuilt it the first time)

I know of more than a few "restored cars" that never got the bugs out of them and were sold because of that. Look at the bright side. You have less in it than a restored car and you don't have to worry about scratching the paint or buggering up all those nice shiny new bolts and fittings as you take stuff apart to get the problem fixed.

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As others have pointed out, you could have the same problems with a $25000 car and how would you feel then? It may be a philosophical question but it might hurt less to have an $8000 lemon.

I'm kidding. Chances are there is nothing much wrong. I suspect that if I, or one of the old timers, were there we could have the car purring like a big cat in an hour.

Are there any old car guys in your area, or a branch of the AACA?

It is pretty hard to diagnose a car from a distance but, here are some principles to keep in mind.

A gas engine needs 3 things to run:

Compression, enough to fire and make power

Gas, mixed with the proper amount of air

Spark, occurring at the right time.

If you have those 3 things the car must run. It has no choice.

First off you say it was running before. So I will assume that the rod is not sticking thru the block, and that whatever the problem is, it is something minor.

Are you getting spark when you turn the engine over? On an A you can check by grounding the plug wires which are plain copper straps. Hold the point of a screwdriver against the head and bring it close while someone turns the engine over. You should get a white spark 1/8" long, ideally. Usually it is yellow and 1/16. That will do. If no spark you may need to carefully clean the points. Spray with contact cleaner and drag a piece of white paper between them. If a car sits around they can get a white corrosion on them.

Take out the plugs and see if they are clean and gapped right. If they are soaked in gas and oil you must clean them. Best way is to sandblast them.

Lay the plugs on the head and see if they spark. If they do that part of the job is over.

There is more to it, but that should get you going. If not let us know.

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Guest cben09

There is one point that may be appreciated,,which will make this job

much easier,,!!!,,It dont run,,, so simple problem it is,,,

If it were an intermittant skip ,,the symptoms will NOT be there

when you look,,,grrrrr,,

Basic simple trouble shoot

Cheers,,Ben

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There is a big difference between "fully restored" and "fully sorted". Quite a few "restored" cars see little if any use, can't have paint chips and the like devaluing the restoration investment! That's why I prefer "driver" cars. One more paint chip/ small body ouch or ripped seam has no effect on the value. And you can actually use the thing. The trick is in the sorting process. Your skills will probably have a steep learing curve, but if you persevere you will be a real "old car guy" rather than a curator of a static historic object/ investment.

It's difficult in some places but stay off busy streets. A vintage car going thru the shakedown phase can be a danger to one and all in heavy traffic. You need an area where the need to pull over and adjust something can be done safely.

It also helps to have a trailer and tow vehicle for the times where a roadside repair isn't going to happen. Even better if someone at home can hitch up the trailer and meet you at the side of the road.

Welcome to the often frustrating but deeply satisfying world of old cars.

Greg in Canada

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There is a big difference between "fully restored" and "fully sorted". Quite a few "restored" cars see little if any use, can't have paint chips and the like devaluing the restoration investment! That's why I prefer "driver" cars. One more paint chip/ small body ouch or ripped seam has no effect on the value. And you can actually use the thing. The trick is in the sorting process. Your skills will probably have a steep learing curve, but if you persevere you will be a real "old car guy" rather than a curator of a static historic object/ investment.

It's difficult in some places but stay off busy streets. A vintage car going thru the shakedown phase can be a danger to one and all in heavy traffic. You need an area where the need to pull over and adjust something can be done safely.

It also helps to have a trailer and tow vehicle for the times where a roadside repair isn't going to happen. Even better if someone at home can hitch up the trailer and meet you at the side of the road.

Welcome to the often frustrating but deeply satisfying world of old cars.

Greg in Canada

Yes, I should have clarified. Perhaps I meant a fully restored car, mechanically-speaking. As long as the body/shell is complete and in 'decent' shape, I don't really care. I actually want chips in paint, etc., at least when I buy something, as it would easily end up that way not long after I own it. I even put a scratch in the fender resting a 5 gallon gas can on it when I put fresh gas in it yesterday...I did not even notice the small pebble at the bottom of the gas can.

Speaking of gas...could it simply be that it is the ethanol junk I am using, that is the sole root cause of this problem? I looked for an ethanol-free station and there is one about 20 miles away. I intend to get gas there.

I do want reliability, as, around these parts, unless you drive the most rural of roads, the location I live has so many 18-wheelers, and most of those double-clutching good old boys have little patience...

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I think that you've already overpaid for a vehicle in less than good condition out of general ignorance and you may have to invest more money to get the car where you want it and unless you can get it to run correctly you may never be happy with it. It might behoove you to sell it and invest in something a little newer that requires less maintenance and mechanical knowledge that you could enjoy more. You could have that mechanic come and look at your car but be prepared to make some investment as he may find other issues that need corrected. Where are you located anyway? I would very much like to help you solve your problem as the Model "A" has always been my first car love. Here's some pics of my truck. While it wasn't 100 percent authentic( I was 17 when I started) is was all stock with no conversions or upgrades.

Well, I don't know. Prices of Model A's have come down, but they still are not really cheap. For a car that is all there, no frame is perfect, only a little rust on the base of the two quarter panels, WAS RUNNING and sounded good when I got it, interior good, but could use painting in time, I don't think $8,000 was unreasonable. Where can you find one cheaper, other than a complete basket case? I looked for a long time, and found one locally. Maybe I could have found one for $500 or $750 less half across the country, but by the time I paid to haul it here, any savings would have been lost. Do you know of any that are better and cheaper at this time? If I got something later, it wouldn't be of as much interest to me. I actually would prefer to have a car from the Brass era, if I had my way. Besides, '50's and '60's cars are astronomically expensive these days.

I am in Pennsylvania, since you asked.

Edited by mrcvs (see edit history)
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I tried pushing the metal straps as close to the engine block as possible. I got a spark on the first one, but the other three were clearly not close enough to generate a spark due to the conformation of the distributor. I re-read what you all wrote above, and noted that you meant to use the screwdriver as a bridge between the plate and the block. I have to ask my wife again for help for this one...which might require a little effort. Or, if one sparked, does it mean the rest are likely okay, too?????

I think we went over this yesterday, especially since we had the spark plugs out yesterday and cleaned them up with a rag and emory cloth. So, may or may not be the problem. Given what you all say above, I am guessing it is the carburetor. I am guessing the carburetor was a problem in the past as the man I bought it from said he replaced the one it had when he got it with this one. Why else would he replace it?

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Now that I recall, this was done yesterday with my Model A Club friend. It was me turning the key on and off, which is why I didn't recall it being done. Plus, you don't have to rely on a wife for help. Just do this with the screwdriver and pull down on the starter in the engine compartment. I learned this trick yesterday. Not as dumb as I look!:)

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Okay, make a Margarita for the wife, and she then wants to help. Used the screwdriver to bridge the gap, and a spark on all 4 spark plugs (e.g., the copper strap).

What if I just replaced all 4 spark plugs? Isn't the gap supposed to be the thickness of a credit card?

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Guest cben09

The part of the sparkplug to be cleaned is the porcelain on

the cylender side,,the spark travels down the soot-carbon

and fails to jump the gap,,,the sand blast will make a good

improvement ,not perfect BUTTT,,inspect the porcelain

for bits of sand lodged weeee down in the ,,,inside there,,

Buy a new set,,in fact,,get 8,,have a spare set,,,

Plugs can get sooted OR wet in just a minute or two,,

Have you made piece with the twisting of the choke knob

yet,,,I know of a lady that drove dads car for 40 years

and after he died she got stuck,,couldnt climb the hill

to the house,,in LO gear yet,,,I stopped ,she was crying

She said nobody knew how to fix it,and she couldnt

afford a new one,,I realized what she had done,,and

got her to turn the choke button,just like the kitchen

fawcett ,started right up,climbed the hill in second,

She brought box of cookies to my motorcycle shop

the next morning,,It was a happy hour,in 1968

Cheers,,Ben

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Twisting of the choke knob...my understanding is that it should be 3/4 to 1 full turn open. That's where it was at. Perhaps turning it a bit each way provided transient improvement, but it is difficult trying to figure out where that needs to be, while retarding the spark and adjusting the throttle. I just don't have three hands...or two right feet (for the starter and accelerator). How do you do this?

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As I am going through all this, I am thinking, what was it really like in 1930? I mean, what was the "average" driver like? Did just about everyone drive at one time or another, independent of age, gender, mechanical experience, or was it typically only folks in good shape, generally male, with mechanical experience--e.g., male, 20 to 50 years old, mostly? It seems like the extent one might have been stranded might have dictated this? Or, am I wrong?

Now, they give out driver's licenses like candy, and most folks know how to put gas in the tank, and that is it! Relative to the rest of most of you on this forum, my automotive experience, is minimal, at best. Relative to the general population, I think my automotive experience is above average. That is not saying much at all! Or, conversely, it shows how little the average person in this day and age knows about cars at all. I think because the 'trend' is to not educate about cars, just because it is studying college courses that gets jobs or because cars are now mostly 'computers', and this is why most are learned about very little about cars...and why I am struggling with these simple matters. But, I am getting better.

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I guess those of us growing up in the 50's had the advantage of driving a lot of different vehicles, started in all kinds of different ways. I have not driven a Model "A" since 1971 but if I got in one tomorrow I would 1) turn on the gas 2) turn the key 3) move the left spark lever all the way up 4) move the right throttle lever down a couple of notches 5) turn the choke knob in and then back it off 3/4 of a turn 6) hit the starter button and pull the choke rod out a couple of quick times. When it started I would then reach over and advance the spark and move the throttle back to top position - no rush, I love the "ticka-ticka-ticka" of a Model "A" at idle. After a couple of minutes I would close the choke knob down a half turn (leaving it out a 1/4 of a turn or so).

If I missed something let me know ......

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" Did just about everyone drive at one time or another, independent of age, gender, mechanical experience, or was it typically only folks in good shape, generally male, with mechanical experience--e.g., male, 20 to 50 years old, mostly?"

If you look at old photos you will find many young drivers (some as young as 12). You will find many female drivers - as a matter of fact the Model "A" was considered an excellent car for women to learn to drive on.

Lest you think that strange here is an excellent article on a 102 year old lady who still drives her 1930 Packard (a much larger car than a Model "A"). The article also states that she did her own maintenance until a few years ago. There used to be a movie showing her driving it - may still be around if you google.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/08/michigan-woman-102-still-drives-her-1930-packard/1?csp=obinsite#.VTLyOfAllRq

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Twisting of the choke knob...my understanding is that it should be 3/4 to 1 full turn open. That's where it was at. Perhaps turning it a bit each way provided transient improvement, but it is difficult trying to figure out where that needs to be, while retarding the spark and adjusting the throttle. I just don't have three hands...or two right feet (for the starter and accelerator). How do you do this?

Read Vermontboy's explanation. You don't need two feet or three hands. It is really easy once you get used to it. It easily becomes second nature.

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If you are convinced you have spark, after trying to start it pull one or more of the plugs. Are they wet with gasoline? If so, there is a good chance it is flooding which could be caused by debris in the fluel system prevent the carburetor float valve to work properly. Does the car have a fuel filter or sediment bowl? If not, this scenario is more likely and some carb dissassembly may be needed to fix. If plugs are dry, fuel probably isn't getting into the intake air. To confirm this you can spritz a little gasoline at the air inlet for carb (or you can use starting fliud). If it then starts and runs (briefly), chances are some debris in the carb is clogging a critical passage. If this last test doesn't change the "it wants to start but won't" behavior then you may have a timing issue. If so, I would get some reference material that showed how to set timing on a Model A engine. A friend has a Model A and over the course of a 1/2 hour drive it began to run poorly and finally would run no more. It was popping and back firing before it finally quit. Turned out the points rub block was worn down to the point that points were not opening... My '25 Dodge runs fine on the 10% ethanol gas so I doubt this is your problem. Let us know what you find.

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As I am going through all this, I am thinking, what was it really like in 1930? I mean, what was the "average" driver like? Did just about everyone drive at one time or another, independent of age, gender, mechanical experience, or was it typically only folks in good shape, generally male, with mechanical experience--e.g., male, 20 to 50 years old, mostly? It seems like the extent one might have been stranded might have dictated this? Or, am I wrong?

.

Ford Motor Company went out of its way to show women driving their cars in its photo ads during the Model A and V-8 periods.

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Maybe you need to reach out to someone local who is familiar with Model A's so they can go over the troubleshooting with you watching and teach you some basic fundamentals of keeping it in running condition.

As most have stated they are a very basic car but do require maintenance. Fuel,ignition,compression and timing sound simple enough but can be very frustrating to a novice!!

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Maybe you need to reach out to someone local who is familiar with Model A's so they can go over the troubleshooting with you watching and teach you some basic fundamentals of keeping it in running condition.

As most have stated they are a very basic car but do require maintenance. Fuel,ignition,compression and timing sound simple enough but can be very frustrating to a novice!!

Yes. I DID have someone go over things with me. Timing is particularly difficult to do for me. I did not have a crank, and he said that would help with it had I had one, but we did the best we could. It was running for about 2 minutes when he left the other day and thought fresh gas would work wonders, but I can only get 2 - 5 seconds. I am going to get new spark plugs today and see if that helps anything.

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I think there is a larger question. You can't expect modern day reliability and performance from a car that passed its Best Before date in the Roosevelt administration. For one thing there is such a thing as progress, and auto companies have learned a few things in the last 80 odd years. For another thing it is an old, second hand car no matter how much you pay for it.

If you approach it the way you would a coffee maker you bought last week it will be nothing but an annoyance. If you approach it as an artifact from ancient times that has somehow survived you may have better success. But, you will have to revise your thinking. For example a car that old required a lot more maintenance even when new. But, it is much simpler to fix than a modern car. And by this time there are lots of people who have figured them out, such as some of the guys on this board.

I am never surprised when a car that old goes wrong. I am surprised and pleased when it doesn't. And then I approach it like an amusing game or puzzle and try to figure out how to give it what it needs to work correctly. This seems to work fairly well and it saves wear and tear on my nerves.

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I don't know why it would run for 2 - 5 seconds but that is common with a motor that has not run for a long time. All you can do is rev it up so it doesn't stall and hope it clears up. I had the same thing with a 42 Chev yesterday. After a few false starts it fired up and I held the gas pedal down a bit and monkeyed with the choke until it would run (barely) then I got under the hood and adjusted the idle faster and let it warm up. After 10 minutes it smoothed out and I adjusted the idle back down. There is a hand throttle but it is frozen up. This did not surprise me on a car that has been off the road for at least 8 years, I just worked around it and soon will fix it.

If you can get yours to run, even badly, and let it warm up chances are it will smooth out and run fine. The more you drive it the better it will run.

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I don't know why it would run for 2 - 5 seconds but that is common with a motor that has not run for a long time. All you can do is rev it up so it doesn't stall and hope it clears up. I had the same thing with a 42 Chev yesterday. After a few false starts it fired up and I held the gas pedal down a bit and monkeyed with the choke until it would run (barely) then I got under the hood and adjusted the idle faster and let it warm up. After 10 minutes it smoothed out and I adjusted the idle back down. There is a hand throttle but it is frozen up. This did not surprise me on a car that has been off the road for at least 8 years, I just worked around it and soon will fix it.

If you can get yours to run, even badly, and let it warm up chances are it will smooth out and run fine. The more you drive it the better it will run.

I wish I could get that far! Stepping on the accelerator/advancing the throttle yields no results. This is why I feel powerless. At least, if it did something, I would feel like all I needed to do was fine tune something.

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Okay, I do have a spark going from the spark plug wires to the engine block head, using a screwdriver. The spark plugs were out the other day, but they could use replacing, I suppose. Maybe this is the problem! I have AC Delco C77 spark plugs in it. Went to Autozone, and they don't have them, and cannot order them, but they are supposedly $3.29 each, if they could get them. They said other options, again none of which they have, are Champion 429 and Autolite 3076. I tried finding them on the internet, and here is about all I could find:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spark-Plug-Copper-Plus-Champion-Spark-Plug-429-fits-28-31-Ford-Model-A-3-3L-L4-/181681926385?fits=Model%3AModel+A&hash=item2a4d1630f1&vxp=mtr

$48.76 a plug seems real steep, and considerably more than the $3.29 I was quoted. Maybe, perhaps, I have an ounce of gold I might wish to sell you for $5, but, oh, by the way, it's not in stock and I have no way of ordering it, either!

By chance, if anyone is passing through Macungie, Pennsylvania, and has half an hour to spare and is looking for a free beer, and knows what the quick fix might be, I might be interested. Have no idea what else to do at this point, if it doesn't improve with new spark plugs.

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I didn't get a response to one of my comments. Looking on Hemmings, other than a total basket case, you cannot get a Model A Ford for under $8,000. When I got it, it was running GOOD, sounded good, started really easy, does need painting, interior not bad, could use repainting and has some rust/rot at the base of the quarter panels. Got it locally, did not have to pay to get it towed, originally, decades ago, came from Ohio. Did I pay too much? But, then again, the aggravation is a 'price', and the push-button perfect Packard or Brass Era car I wanted, may have been worth more in the long run, to me. But, then again, $8,000 is a lot of money for me at this time until the mortgage is paid off.

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Guest cben09

I think 1 turn is good,,If you have friend,,maybee,,or do the starter

trick by hand again,,,,Put some gas in a squirt oil can

and squirt into air intake of carb,,,should run a bit longer

pouring from can or bottle too daingerous,,,and too much

gas also,,

My present thinking is its lean mixture ,,as in cloged

main jet,,OR is there any chance of water in the

float bowl or gastank,,,If you drain gas out of a line

onto a rag or paper towell the gas goes through and the

water stayes on top,dont go through,!!

The fact it goes put,put,,,says it should run

and you have SEEN it run,,so some small detail is lirking,,

Dont pull and hold choke,,,,,Pull all way,,say 3 compressions

then release to 1/2 way,,,so that the ingoing air will

carry the gas into the cylenders,,,

Hope this helps some,,,try this first before going to

treating for a flooded condition

Having the garden hose connected not a bad idea,,

Can someone suggest a parts house for A,,,,Don Lang

good for all T stuff,,,,Best of luck,,Ben

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