VIN 1923

Ladies and Gents

anyone know where one might find VIN decoder fro old Studebakers? from the 20s

Ken

Cars of that era do not have VINs. On the Studebaker there will be a chassis number, probably on aluminium plate behind the left front wheel. There will be an engine number stamped on the block along with casting date codes. There might also be a body number on another aluminium plate on the firewall. In the later 1920s there is a code for the body type but I don't know about 1923..

is there a source for decoding these numbers

The factory chassis and body catalogs will reveal what plant it was built in, based on Serial No. Only the factory build sheet will indicate what model and body came off the line with that Serial No. At that time there was no universally declared VIN tag as we know it today. Today's tags have seventeen figures and each one indicates a specific aspect. First figure is country of manufacture, etc. right down to engine, trans and trim configuration. The better decoding on your 1923 will be provided by the body plate tag.

IE.

The '23 models did not have a body tag. There are no production orders for cars built before 1936.

The casting dates on the engine will at least tell you if it has a correct date engine in it. Of course a bunch of pictures would help. I don't know when those body tags were first used. They were certainly there by 1928. In the later 1920s there were many running changes throughout the production season and it is often difficult to ascribe an exact year to a car. There was a thread here not too long ago where the poster noted that there were several similar but different radiator shell shapes used in the 1925-26 period. I have a GE Dictator which was built in 1928 and first registered in 1929.

The seventeen figure VINs mentioned above only began in the 1980s.

If your car is a 1923 EM Light Six touring then it was most likely originally black on black with black painted wood spoke wheels though later in the run in 1924 there were some sold with maroon bodies. I presume they were black for the same reason that Ford Ts were. Studebaker sold over 100,000 of these in the 18 month production run.

If your car is a 1923 EM Light Six touring then it was most likely originally black on black with black painted wood spoke wheels though later in the run in 1924 there were some sold with maroon bodies. I presume they were black for the same reason that Ford Ts were. Studebaker sold over 100,000 of these in the 18 month production run.

Actually the 1923 models did come in some colors. If you look at Studebaker parts book 3 page 135 you will see that hoods came in black or Princess Louise Lake in 1923. This color was only available on the enclosed light sixes in 1923 and all models of special sixes. A 1923 sales brochure from Canada says that the light six cars came with striped blue wheels. The same brochure says special sixes came in studebaker blue with black hoods and gold striped wheels. (Was this only on canadian production???) In 1924 the colors available greatly expanded. See the thread on original colors for a copy of the 1923 brochure and page 135 from the parts book.

1924 colors included: Black, Princess Louise Lake, blue, parisian red, military grey, brewster green, and oxford green. No paint chips survive of these colors. It would be nice to see remnants of any original paints???

I have included an english 1922 ad for a light six with obvious two tone paint (black radiator and fenders, grey?? body) It seems most of the colored models were for export.

Late 1923 to 1924 would coincide with the introduction the new faster drying paints. For 1923 black on black was the standard colour.

Actually my 1923 EM Light Six Touring car has two body tags, one with all the patent dates from the Budd Company, who Studebaker worked with to build their steel bodies, and another with a body serial number. They are both located under the front seat on the right and left side of the car respectively. The true vehicle tracking number is the chassis serial number tag on the plate behind the left front wheel as mentioned in an earlier post. I found the manufacturing process tag in one of the doors when restoring the car which matches the serial number on the chassis tag and confirms how Studebaker tracked the car during the manufacturing process with this serial number. The only tracking information that I have found is tied to the chassis serial number of the car.

The engine block is stamped on the flat area above the starter with the engine serial number. 1920-1922 will be prefixed with an EJ and 1923-1924 will be prefixed with an EM. FYI – in mid-1923 the cylinder head was change from cast aluminum to cast iron with changes to the block, exhaust manifold, carb, etc. All EJs had the aluminum head and EMs produced up through about June of 1923 (S/N 1106001 and prior) had aluminum heads.

I concur that the parts manual does list some colors, as mentioned above, for the Light Six hoods but lists no colors for any other body parts. I have never seen a non-restored car in anything but black, so I’m not sure I’m buying that Light Sixes sold in the US were made in colors other than black. According to all other literature I have found, black is the only color that was offered on the Light Six. I will mention one exception and that is a friend’s car that was exported to Australia. That car had a deep maroon body BUT, and this is where it gets weird, while the chassis tag serial number matches 1924 Light Six production and the wheel base is 112” (matches Light Six) it has a Special Six body with rear hinged front doors, all wood framed doors and the little pad along the top of the doors. These are all Special Six traits. It also has a Special Six folding top, Special six hubs that take Special Six caps and Special Six wheels. The rest of the car is all Light Six….frame, engine, fenders, hood, etc. He has pictures from when the car was new which all these details can be seen along with pictures of the car before restoration showing the original body color so it wasn’t cobbled together later in life. I think Studebaker did a number of non-standard things on exports as the cars were shipped in pieces and final assembled at their destination. Maybe color was one of those special features.

The Light Six engine was a medium gray color with several black accessories. BTW, I have a few Light Six parts and knowthat car inside and out if you need any help with it.

Scott

smrdeza@lentel.com

Since there seems to be some confusion here is the hood page fro the parts book 4. It would be interesting to see the same page from parts books 3 if those who own a copy would be willing to scan and add here.

hoods003.pdf

Not really confused as I have books 1-4 and completely agree that it is listed. I'm just using my internet intuition as I don't always believe what is written. They very well may have painted some Light Sixes colors but I just have not seen any proof of that. Maybe someone that has seen an unrestored Light Six painted something other than black can chime in and make me a believer. I still wonder why they only listed colors on the hood page. Below is the book 3 page on hoods (where again it is the only area listing body colors) and shows everything black except for a 1919 Big Six which shows it was available in green...go figure.

Scott

I would love to see these old colors though. Even the names sound cool...Princess Lake Louise, Wyandotte Green, Belgian Blue, etc.

Thanks for posting that page. It is interesting that in 1919 only the big six was offered in a color and in 1923 only the big six was not offered in a color. Other makes of cars at this time came in some colors. The Dodge Brothers and Graham trucks came in blue and gray as well as black. They have quite a lively discussion in their group about what colors are closest to the original and have several surviving examples. Perhaps there were a lot more of them made or there are more survivors. The light six has an incredibly low survival rate given how many were made.That aluminum head may be the culprit.

Actually my 1923 EM Light Six Touring car has two body tags, one with all the patent dates from the Budd Company, who Studebaker worked with to build their steel bodies, and another with a body serial number. They are both located under the front seat on the right and left side of the car respectively. The true vehicle tracking number is the chassis serial number tag on the plate behind the left front wheel as mentioned in an earlier post. I found the manufacturing process tag in one of the doors when restoring the car which matches the serial number on the chassis tag and confirms how Studebaker tracked the car during the manufacturing process with this serial number. The only tracking information that I have found is tied to the chassis serial number of the car.

The engine block is stamped on the flat area above the starter with the engine serial number. 1920-1922 will be prefixed with an EJ and 1923-1924 will be prefixed with an EM. FYI – in mid-1923 the cylinder head was change from cast aluminum to cast iron with changes to the block, exhaust manifold, carb, etc. All EJs had the aluminum head and EMs produced up through about June of 1923 (S/N 1106001 and prior) had aluminum heads.

I concur that the parts manual does list some colors, as mentioned above, for the Light Six hoods but lists no colors for any other body parts. I have never seen a non-restored car in anything but black, so I’m not sure I’m buying that Light Sixes sold in the US were made in colors other than black. According to all other literature I have found, black is the only color that was offered on the Light Six. I will mention one exception and that is a friend’s car that was exported to Australia. That car had a deep maroon body BUT, and this is where it gets weird, while the chassis tag serial number matches 1924 Light Six production and the wheel base is 112” (matches Light Six) it has a Special Six body with rear hinged front doors, all wood framed doors and the little pad along the top of the doors. These are all Special Six traits. It also has a Special Six folding top, Special six hubs that take Special Six caps and Special Six wheels. The rest of the car is all Light Six….frame, engine, fenders, hood, etc. He has pictures from when the car was new which all these details can be seen along with pictures of the car before restoration showing the original body color so it wasn’t cobbled together later in life. I think Studebaker did a number of non-standard things on exports as the cars were shipped in pieces and final assembled at their destination. Maybe color was one of those special features.

The Light Six engine was a medium gray color with several black accessories. BTW, I have a few Light Six parts and knowthat car inside and out if you need any help with it.

Scott

smrdeza@lentel.com

266735.attach

 

Actually my 1923 EM Light Six Touring car has two body tags, one with all the patent dates from the Budd Company, who Studebaker worked with to build their steel bodies, and another with a body serial number. They are both located under the front seat on the right and left side of the car respectively. The true vehicle tracking number is the chassis serial number tag on the plate behind the left front wheel as mentioned in an earlier post. I found the manufacturing process tag in one of the doors when restoring the car which matches the serial number on the chassis tag and confirms how Studebaker tracked the car during the manufacturing process with this serial number. The only tracking information that I have found is tied to the chassis serial number of the car.

The engine block is stamped on the flat area above the starter with the engine serial number. 1920-1922 will be prefixed with an EJ and 1923-1924 will be prefixed with an EM. FYI – in mid-1923 the cylinder head was change from cast aluminum to cast iron with changes to the block, exhaust manifold, carb, etc. All EJs had the aluminum head and EMs produced up through about June of 1923 (S/N 1106001 and prior) had aluminum heads.

I concur that the parts manual does list some colors, as mentioned above, for the Light Six hoods but lists no colors for any other body parts. I have never seen a non-restored car in anything but black, so I’m not sure I’m buying that Light Sixes sold in the US were made in colors other than black. According to all other literature I have found, black is the only color that was offered on the Light Six. I will mention one exception and that is a friend’s car that was exported to Australia. That car had a deep maroon body BUT, and this is where it gets weird, while the chassis tag serial number matches 1924 Light Six production and the wheel base is 112” (matches Light Six) it has a Special Six body with rear hinged front doors, all wood framed doors and the little pad along the top of the doors. These are all Special Six traits. It also has a Special Six folding top, Special six hubs that take Special Six caps and Special Six wheels. The rest of the car is all Light Six….frame, engine, fenders, hood, etc. He has pictures from when the car was new which all these details can be seen along with pictures of the car before restoration showing the original body color so it wasn’t cobbled together later in life. I think Studebaker did a number of non-standard things on exports as the cars were shipped in pieces and final assembled at their destination. Maybe color was one of those special features.

The Light Six engine was a medium gray color with several black accessories. BTW, I have a few Light Six parts and knowthat car inside and out if you need any help with it.

Scott

smrdeza@lentel.com

266735.attach

 

Hi, We are the Australian owners of the Studebaker, Scott mentioned.  Our studebaker was purchased from Creek Street, Brisbane branch of the Canadian Cycle Motor Company.  The original owner lived in a country town about 2 hours west of Brisbane, which is where the car has spent 3/4's of its life.  The gentleman was a local builder and after a few years of owning the car, took the back off to make it into a "ute" (utility), but like all great Australian farmers, you don't throw anything away and it was placed in one of the sheds on the farm.  The car was sold to another local family and when this family was clearning out the shed many years later,threw parts of the Studbeaker itno the local dump, but again the interesting thing is how all the car parts made their way back to the farm, he obviously went to reclaim his treasures.  The car was well used but stilll 90% complete, th next owners used for a while before parking in up, the weather certainly did its trick and was a rusty relic, when we became the third owners.  

We put an ad in local papers trying to find more informaiton and one of the original family membrs got in contact and said they had a photo of his Mum sitting on the running board as they is how she went to school, we later found out the 2nd owner was family friend and their daughter went in same car. so we have good first hand knowledge of how the car looked years before.  As the car was so rusty, we were trying to establish the colour and they said they it was avery dark maroon nearly black, we then realised that we had the door which he had previously rescued from the dump, as it matched the pinstripe in the black and white photo and he confirmed that was the original door.

Again we were not convinced totally but when we began sanding back the built up paint on the wooden timber wheels the base coat, did match the door, so then we had the colour computer scanned and paint was made up for restoration.  In the black and white you can see where the pin stripe was, we have not done the pin stripe feature yet or the extra padded handpiece on the top of the door, which is shown on the original door. 

Orginally the cars came to Australia as flat packs (no timber) and then the Canadian Cycle Motor company used local Australian Silky oak for building the frames, before putting rest of the car together.  The origina ID plate was on the chassis, it was in bad state but numbers could still be read, numbers on the block this is an EM 1923 special six body.  Studebakers are not commonly found in Australia as a whole, and early vintage cars are rarer stilll.  Before we had the black and white photo, Scott (Mr Studebaker) called it the "Frankenstudie", so thank goodness for the photo to validate its originaltiy.  It has suicide doors and also is an origianl right hand driver for our Australian roads. 

Have uploaded photo of the door which clearly shows original deep red/maroon colour.    this is at base of Scott's original post.

I have a pretty original 1923 Light Six roadster RHD Australian delivered I believe that was driven into storage in the 1960s and largely untouched since except for doing up the (optional) Budd wires and removing the paint.  However the petrol tank did not have the paint stripped off it and it is a deep maroon colour rather flaked but I am 99% certain that it is the original colour.

Do you have pictures of your roadster to share?

I'm currently working on a Studebaker big six tourer 1923.

Can anybody assist me identify thi vehicle: where/when it was built, color etc. The serial number on the id plate is 3052078

It would be best to  start your own thread, with  pictures, we like  pictures.