"Old" gasoline just a myth?

I submit the following youtube video for your consideration. Is there really any validity to gasoline getting old? Maybe not.

Old gas runs fine in my 39 Chevy. Probably not so good in my Vette. An older John Deere runs just fine on kerosene....................Bob

It's on the Internet, so it's gotta be true fact.

An engine, particularly a diesel, will "run" on most anything, but poor fuels do effect performance. A high compression gasoline engine will usually not run well on poor quality fuel. How many grades (octane ratings) of "old" gasoline are there, and how are they achieved? Depending on how (temperature, humidity, quality of container etc.) gasoline is stored will have a huge effect on the quality (grade) of "old" gasoline ... not to mention duration of the storage. I'll bet that the quality of "old" gasoline stored in the Antarctic for 15 years will vary greatly from the quality of "old" gasoline stored for a similar period in the Bahamas.

By the way, I found "old" gasoline (reported by the seller to have been sitting for 12 years in Central Florida) in the fuel tank of my '48 Chevy that had the viscosity of honey. I didn't try to run the Chevy on the stuff.

Just my opinion,

Grog

A neighbor had a snow blower with year-old 10% ethanol gas. It would not start, and gas was cloudy. Drained, "new" gas, and it started and ran fine.

Non-ethanol gas will last much longer, as it gets older (3 years or more) starts smelling like varnish. It might run an engine then, but then as time goes on it evaporates to a sludge. So to me, yes, old gas is not good gas.....

Did the 2001 gas contain ethanol?

if you don't think it deteriorates try starting your mower after gasoline sits in it all winter without a stabilizer. Just because it is on. The net does not make it true or false. Wayne

Did the 2001 gas contain ethanol?

There is an interesting history about that >>> http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_fuel_history.html

If the gas smells like varnish it will gum up your engine like no tomorrow. If it still smells like gas an engine will run on it even though the lighter elements have evaporated. Notice the old gas does not have the sharp odor of new gas, that is the lighter elements evaporating off.

An engine will usually start easier on new gas because it is more volatile (vaporizes easier when cold).

I would have put new gas in the tank for the first start up, then put the old gas in mixed with some new gas.

Provided it had not gone bad (varnishy)

By the way I have seen old gas that had turned into a hard, black, asphalt like substance in the tank.

There is no rhyme or reason to it. Sometimes gas will keep for 10 years, sometimes it turns to varnish in 2 years. There is no telling until you give it the sniff test.

Reminds me of an old German VW mechanic I used to know. I predict the bike won't run very long, the tank will continue to rust and the fuel filter and carburetor will be plugged with rusty sediment unless they coat the tank.

Guess I must have been really lucky with my Cougar.

I put it in storage filling the tank up with about 3/4 of premium fuel and a can of stable in 2007. In 2011 I went out, started her up, drove around the property to heat everything up, topping the tank again with premium and stable, putting her away again till I brought her out last summer. It did run a bit ruff till it warmed up totally but then smoothed out and performed fine the 40 miles home. Managed to put four tanks through her before parking again for this past winter.

Hoping for the same kind of luck soon this spring.

if you don't think it deteriorates try starting your mower after gasoline sits in it all winter without a stabilizer. Just because it is on. The net does not make it true or false. Wayne

The ethanol ate up the plastic carburetor so I didn't even get the chance to let it sit over winter.

I can tell you from personal experience that today's gas is useless after about 6 months. You may be able to extend that a bit by keeping the tank full or using a stabilizer, but I wouldn't trust it. The best defense is to keep the engine running and the car moving by driving it and cycling fresh gas through as often as possible.

Del: your 'luck' was using Premium fuel to store the car. Many if not most Premium fuels are very high quality. Almost as good as aviation gasoline.

I hope you refilled the car again with a big name Premium fuel. Or aviation gasoline.

GLong

Del: your 'luck' was using Premium fuel to store the car. Many if not most Premium fuels are very high quality. Almost as good as aviation gasoline.

I hope you refilled the car again with a big name Premium fuel. Or aviation gasoline.

GLong

Aviation fuel is 100LL illegal to use on the HWY.

I submit the following youtube video for your consideration. Is there really any validity to gasoline getting old? Maybe not.

Getting back to the question of the Thread Starter, it does appear, from the majority of opinions posted, that unlike fine wine and whiskey, age is not kind to gasoline.

Cheers,

Grog

Getting back to the question of the Thread Starter, it does appear, from the majority of opinions posted, that unlike fine wine and whiskey, age is not kind to gasoline.

Cheers,

Grog

Grog,

You summed it up well. Thank you.

Dwight

Like Rusty, I've seen old gas in the bottom of tanks on old tractors that have sat outside in the hot sun, and coldest winter days for years and the stuff is nothing but a black tar in the bottom. Even lacquer thinner has a time breaking it down. I agree that the lighter more volatile part evaporates away especially on hot summer days. If the fuel is keep inside in a cool dry place and is sealed well, I could see where it would keep much better. Lawn mowers and small engines have vented caps, as do older vehicles and tractors, so evaporation will take place. Some of the newer cars have a sealed system, No vent in the cap, so evaporation would be slower. I would not waste my time with old dirty gas. It just is not worth it in the long run. Also, I see that old feller did not put the used gas in a vintage Harley Davidson. And no one know for sure if the fuel is really that old. Where ever it came from someone could have put some gas in it and tried to start it with out any luck before he got it. I've fixed a lot of stuff that the fuel looked just like that and there is no way I would use it. The sediments will plug the fuel filter and carburetor eventually. Dandy Dave!

I had the Buick out Friday. It shows 3/4 left in the tank that was topped off early in December. Drove it up to town for coffee in the afternoon and took my wife out to dinner Friday night. That's about 15 gallons. On a good day I get close to 15 miles per gallon and average 30 miles per hour just driving around.

The sun is shining! 7 1/2 driving hours from now it ain't gonna be a problem. Probably Monday around noon.

I have heard the stories and the story tellers are adamant. Of course, I have heard stories about a lot of other world problems that never seamed to affect me. It just makes me think some parts of the internet are like a bunch of old boys sitting around the cracker barrel. Where did those guys go, anyway?

Bernie

Aviation gasoline is legal to use in our old cars, they do not have catalytic converters that get ruined by lead.

The only issue I know of regarding Aviation 100LL used on the roads is that nobody is collecting the road tax on the fuel when it's sold to non-aviation users.. For that reason, some, if not many, aviation fuel retailers will not fill gas cans or cars. It's all about the money, ie: taxes..

If you can buy Aviation fuel, and are worried about the use of it on the highway, then keep the aviation fuel !!, When you bring the car out of storage, run the car on the storage fuel, then drain it, keep it for next winter's storage.

Put the crap ethanol fuel in and enjoy being 'green and legal'. Personally, I burn aviation fuel whenever I can get it. It's essentially synthetic gasoline, has no tendency to varnish, absorb water, or gas-off the volitiles. Think about it, would you want questionable fuel in an airplane that may not be flown but once a year, if that? And when flown, it MUST operate at 100%? or the flight is in serious risk of becoming an accident?? Many small airplanes have rubber bladders in the wings for the fuel tanks, so the aviation fuel is also formulated to not attack rubber.

Aviation fuel is not only extremely stable, but formulated to sit in a plane for years and still be good fuel. And small airplanes' fuel tanks are vented to the atmosphere, no 'evaporative emissions' systems. At least not on any of the airplanes I've owned years ago. Maybe some of the newest planes have some form of evap systems, but I doubt it.

Next to Aviation fuel, I buy ethanol-free fuel from my farm fuel supplier, it's mid grade octane, not that my cars need any thing but low octane, but it has NO ETHANOL, and therefore the cars run better, and the fuel is much better for storage fuel. Many if not most boat engine manufacturers require ethanol free fuel, the marine-boat insurance industry is taking a very expensive 'hit' from ethanol-tainted fuel. Many boat storage facilities cannot get insurance for the stored boats, unless they can prove they are are using Aviation fuel or 100% ethanol free marine fuel.

Third in the lineup for desired fuels is Premium car gasoline from Amoco, Standard, Mobil, or other name brand fuel retailers. Standard/Amoco is probably the best, but those retailers are rare now-a-days.

When I'm on a tour, and can't find Ethanol-Free fuel, I grit my teeth, use it, suffer through occasional vapor lock issues, and use an electric fuel pump on those cars prone to vapor lock. When back home, I run the tanks low, and drain the ethanol crap-fuel, and refill with Ethanol free. With 5-6 cars being driven every summer, keeping track of what car has what in it is problematic. So I just try to keep them all on Ethanol-free. The cars start and run every spring, and I rarely have any fuel system issues, and vapor lock is virtually eliminated.

When I can, I put an auxillary fuel tank in my pickup's bed, and bring along my own Ethanol free, or Aviation fuel. 90 gallons doesn't stretch very far on my gas-hog big cars, but if i keep at least 50% of the fuel in the cars' tanks from my own supply of ethanol-free, the cars run better.

GLong

One thing is for sure, when I've siphoned out old gas, it really tastes nasty getting that first bit started through the hose. It took many hours of mouth washing to finally rid the taste.

Aviation gasoline is legal to use in our old cars, they do not have catalytic converters that get ruined by lead.

The only issue I know of regarding Aviation 100LL used on the roads is that nobody is collecting the road tax on the fuel when it's sold to non-aviation users.. For that reason, some, if not many, aviation fuel retailers will not fill gas cans or cars. It's all about the money, ie: taxes..

If you can buy Aviation fuel, and are worried about the use of it on the highway, then keep the aviation fuel !!, When you bring the car out of storage, run the car on the storage fuel, then drain it, keep it for next winter's storage.

Put the crap ethanol fuel in and enjoy being 'green and legal'. Personally, I burn aviation fuel whenever I can get it. It's essentially synthetic gasoline, has no tendency to varnish, absorb water, or gas-off the volitiles. Think about it, would you want questionable fuel in an airplane that may not be flown but once a year, if that? And when flown, it MUST operate at 100%? or the flight is in serious risk of becoming an accident?? Many small airplanes have rubber bladders in the wings for the fuel tanks, so the aviation fuel is also formulated to not attack rubber.

Aviation fuel is not only extremely stable, but formulated to sit in a plane for years and still be good fuel. And small airplanes' fuel tanks are vented to the atmosphere, no 'evaporative emissions' systems. At least not on any of the airplanes I've owned years ago. Maybe some of the newest planes have some form of evap systems, but I doubt it.

Next to Aviation fuel, I buy ethanol-free fuel from my farm fuel supplier, it's mid grade octane, not that my cars need any thing but low octane, but it has NO ETHANOL, and therefore the cars run better, and the fuel is much better for storage fuel. Many if not most boat engine manufacturers require ethanol free fuel, the marine-boat insurance industry is taking a very expensive 'hit' from ethanol-tainted fuel. Many boat storage facilities cannot get insurance for the stored boats, unless they can prove they are are using Aviation fuel or 100% ethanol free marine fuel.

Third in the lineup for desired fuels is Premium car gasoline from Amoco, Standard, Mobil, or other name brand fuel retailers. Standard/Amoco is probably the best, but those retailers are rare now-a-days.

When I'm on a tour, and can't find Ethanol-Free fuel, I grit my teeth, use it, suffer through occasional vapor lock issues, and use an electric fuel pump on those cars prone to vapor lock. When back home, I run the tanks low, and drain the ethanol crap-fuel, and refill with Ethanol free. With 5-6 cars being driven every summer, keeping track of what car has what in it is problematic. So I just try to keep them all on Ethanol-free. The cars start and run every spring, and I rarely have any fuel system issues, and vapor lock is virtually eliminated.

When I can, I put an auxillary fuel tank in my pickup's bed, and bring along my own Ethanol free, or Aviation fuel. 90 gallons doesn't stretch very far on my gas-hog big cars, but if i keep at least 50% of the fuel in the cars' tanks from my own supply of ethanol-free, the cars run better.

GLong

AvGas LL100 stands for "Low Lead 100 Octane". TEL (Tetra-ethyl-lead) is added to raise the octane. When used in a motor vehicle this fuel will leave a lot of lead deposits in the motor. 100LL has a high lead content (0.5 grams per litre), even higher than leaded race fuels. The deposits left when TEL(lead) is burned are corrosive and damaging to valves, valve guides, valve seats and cylinder heads. Lead deposits will also block oxygen(lambda) sensors and catalytic converters and foul spark plugs even after only a short use. Also, 100LL has a chemical package added to make it perform at high altitude, and that isn't the best thing for motor vehicle performance here on the ground.

AvGas is blended for large-bore, long-stroke, low RPM engines which run at high altitude. While AvGas' higher octane is useful, smaller-bore, shorter-stroke, high RPM engines will perform better on racing fuel or high quality octane boosters. AvGas has lower volatility so when used in proportions higher than about 40%, part-throttle drivability and cold starts may be compromised. AvGas has a lower specific gravity so it will require a change in air-fuel ratio calibration for the engine to perform at its best. LL100 is blended with a high percentage of aromatics causing reduced throttle response which is not an issue with an aircraft engine but certainly an issue in a high-performance automotive engine. These high levels of aromatics will also damage rubber components in automotive fuel systems such as fuel lines, fuel pump seals and injector washers.

The sale and use of AvGas is heavily-regulated. Most aircraft fuel dealers refuse to put AvGas into anything other than an aircraft fuel tank. There is a legal grey area that has some vendors willing to dispense AvGas into "approved" containers if they believe the end use of that AvGas is fueling an aircraft engine. This loop-hole is how some may obtain AvGas for automotive use. Because AvGas has no taxes and duties on it, use on public roads is illegal and if found could result in your vehicle being impounded.

I deal in 120 leaded race gas. I sell by the gallon or by the drum to local racers and off road guys. Most of my cars have had a few drinks of the stuff and I usually put in a few gallons when I am going into storage mode.

As for old gas, I have a drum full of it that I give away for fire starting or the likes. Believe me it will burn that way.

I gave ten gallons to a guy a few years ago that dumped it all onto his blackberry patch which was near a road. A bunch of the gas ran down into a culvert that crossed the road.

When he lit it off it shot skunks out like they were in a cannon. The local fire and police departments showed up and told the guy they couldn't write him up because being stupid was not against the law.

Dumb ass-1, skunks and blackberries-0.

Av gas is probably better suited for our old cars than the pump gas we get today, but it is formulated to run at altitude hence not that good for racing. At least that's what I tell my customers.

I should have said; Because AvGas has no road taxes and duties on it, use on public roads is illegal and if found could result in your vehicle being impounded.

At least that's what I tell my customers.

Job security, Jack? Love the skunk story.

Mr. Long, I am having the same problems as you, trying to keep too many vehicles running. This thread has given me some good new ideas to help.

One thing is for sure, when I've siphoned out old gas, it really tastes nasty getting that first bit started through the hose. It took many hours of mouth washing to finally rid the taste.

In such cases I make a syphon hose out of an old piece of garden hose. Make a small slit about 1 foot from the end. Then stick an air blower thru the slit, pointed toward the gas can, and blow. In a few seconds your syphon starts drawing the gas.

You can do this anywhere with an air pig.

To siphon: I put a hose to the bottom of the tank seal it off with a rag then a just bit of air pressure.

Hummmm , Air Pig. Is that like a Flying Pig? :confused: Dandy Dave!

Air pig

AvGas LL100 stands for "Low Lead 100 Octane". TEL (Tetra-ethyl-lead) is added to raise the octane. When used in a motor vehicle this fuel will leave a lot of lead deposits in the motor. 100LL has a high lead content (0.5 grams per litre), even higher than leaded race fuels. The deposits left when TEL(lead) is burned are corrosive and damaging to valves, valve guides, valve seats and cylinder heads. Lead deposits will also block oxygen(lambda) sensors and catalytic converters and foul spark plugs even after only a short use. Also, 100LL has a chemical package added to make it perform at high altitude, and that isn't the best thing for motor vehicle performance here on the ground.

AvGas is blended for large-bore, long-stroke, low RPM engines which run at high altitude. While AvGas' higher octane is useful, smaller-bore, shorter-stroke, high RPM engines will perform better on racing fuel or high quality octane boosters. AvGas has lower volatility so when used in proportions higher than about 40%, part-throttle drivability and cold starts may be compromised. AvGas has a lower specific gravity so it will require a change in air-fuel ratio calibration for the engine to perform at its best. LL100 is blended with a high percentage of aromatics causing reduced throttle response which is not an issue with an aircraft engine but certainly an issue in a high-performance automotive engine. These high levels of aromatics will also damage rubber components in automotive fuel systems such as fuel lines, fuel pump seals and injector washers.

The sale and use of AvGas is heavily-regulated. Most aircraft fuel dealers refuse to put AvGas into anything other than an aircraft fuel tank. There is a legal grey area that has some vendors willing to dispense AvGas into "approved" containers if they believe the end use of that AvGas is fueling an aircraft engine. This loop-hole is how some may obtain AvGas for automotive use. Because AvGas has no taxes and duties on it, use on public roads is illegal and if found could result in your vehicle being impounded.

You are preaching to the choir. I have many years of flying experience behind propellers turned by piston engines. and decades flying large airline aircraft.

I've used 100LL for decades in my cars.. you did look at my signature, right? All of the Pierce Arrow cars are low rpm, long stroke engines.. While they don't have 5" bore like I remember the Lycoming and Continental engines I swapped cylinders on, IO-360, O-360, IO-470, TIO 540, and even a TGIO-540. I'm not a newbie to aircraft or automobile engines.

Your statements about Lead are rather over the top. TEL has been used since WWII to raise the octane in most gasoline, used in automobiles as well as aircraft. Lead is not 'Corrosive and damaging to valves, valve guides, valve seats and cylinder heads'. In fact just the opposite. Lead is an upper cylinder lubricant that greatly reduces valve seat and valve face wear, and prolongs valve guide life, especially exhaust valves.

I have absolutely NO running, problems with my low compression slow turning large engines in my 20's and 30's cars. And aviation fuel does NOT eat up rubber fuel lines, fuel pump diaphrams, or cause any issues with the carburetors like ethanol-contaminated fuel does.

I've removed fuel pumps and inspected the old, not ethanol-resistant diaphrams after a car has been run on strictly aviation fuel for two years, including two winters sitting with aviation fuel in all fuel lines, the fuel pump and carburetors.. and everything is like new. the rubber is not in anyway deteriorated, cracked or softened.

I also stated what you restated about catylitic converters and leaded gas, and the lack of road taxes on the aviation fuel. as for confiscating your car, I highly doubt it, more likely the same 'punishment' that a farmer gets if he gets caught with 'off road' ie: farm or industrial diesel fuel in his truck or trucks on the highway. A calculation of unpaid road taxes for the vehicle based on the miles on the vehicle is demanded, and an additional fine levied.. Rare, but can happen.

I know of many people who ran 100LL in their cars and trucks which were pre-leadfree vehicles and they ran 100's of thousands of miles. without any fuel related issues.

Lead is the main contaminant on sparkplugs, it was the crud that was all over the sparkplugs when a tune up was needed, and many if not most automotive service businesses had spark plug sandblasters to clean and reuse the plugs if the electrodes were not eroded away. .

I use Aviation fuel as a winter storage fuel every year, and use ethanol-free fuel and aviation fuel to run my old cars whenever it is available..

The only issues I have with fuel are when I'm forced to use Ethanol-tainted fuel.

GLong

I know older gas from the 80's, probably early 80's will last for atleast 15 years in an underground tank. We were given over 100 gallons if we removed it (the gas) by the owner's. My Father and I brought a hand pump over, just a few houses from ours and pumped out over 100 gallons in 5-6 gallon cans. We then put it in our own empty above ground 275 gallon tank and I used it that winter in my 1968 Pontiac Stratochief. (canadian pontiac with a Chevy 6 and powerglide) It ran great. I believe it was even leaded gas. It passed the smell test fine. I imagine any sludge had settled in the tank and we didn't drain it completely out so we didn't pick any of it up.

I know it sure was great being 19 years old and not having much money for gas to pull down in the back yard and pump out 10-15 gallons at a time. We even had an auto shutoff nozzle. Never had any fuel related problems with that car either. It was a lot of fun to drive. Perfect car to learn how to drive on winter roads. No power steering or brakes, wide track stance and a good pair of snow tires.

I know ethanol is crap and can count many problems I've had with that in other mechanical things.

You are preaching to the choir. I have many years of flying experience behind propellers turned by piston engines. and decades flying large airline aircraft.

I've used 100LL for decades in my cars.. you did look at my signature, right? All of the Pierce Arrow cars are low rpm, long stroke engines.. While they don't have 5" bore like I remember the Lycoming and Continental engines I swapped cylinders on, IO-360, O-360, IO-470, TIO 540, and even a TGIO-540. I'm not a newbie to aircraft or automobile engines.

Your statements about Lead are rather over the top. TEL has been used since WWII to raise the octane in most gasoline, used in automobiles as well as aircraft. Lead is not 'Corrosive and damaging to valves, valve guides, valve seats and cylinder heads'. In fact just the opposite. Lead is an upper cylinder lubricant that greatly reduces valve seat and valve face wear, and prolongs valve guide life, especially exhaust valves.

I have absolutely NO running, problems with my low compression slow turning large engines in my 20's and 30's cars. And aviation fuel does NOT eat up rubber fuel lines, fuel pump diaphrams, or cause any issues with the carburetors like ethanol-contaminated fuel does.

I've removed fuel pumps and inspected the old, not ethanol-resistant diaphrams after a car has been run on strictly aviation fuel for two years, including two winters sitting with aviation fuel in all fuel lines, the fuel pump and carburetors.. and everything is like new. the rubber is not in anyway deteriorated, cracked or softened.

I also stated what you restated about catylitic converters and leaded gas, and the lack of road taxes on the aviation fuel. as for confiscating your car, I highly doubt it, more likely the same 'punishment' that a farmer gets if he gets caught with 'off road' ie: farm or industrial diesel fuel in his truck or trucks on the highway. A calculation of unpaid road taxes for the vehicle based on the miles on the vehicle is demanded, and an additional fine levied.. Rare, but can happen.

I know of many people who ran 100LL in their cars and trucks which were pre-leadfree vehicles and they ran 100's of thousands of miles. without any fuel related issues.

Lead is the main contaminant on sparkplugs, it was the crud that was all over the sparkplugs when a tune up was needed, and many if not most automotive service businesses had spark plug sandblasters to clean and reuse the plugs if the electrodes were not eroded away. .

I use Aviation fuel as a winter storage fuel every year, and use ethanol-free fuel and aviation fuel to run my old cars whenever it is available..

The only issues I have with fuel are when I'm forced to use Ethanol-tainted fuel.

GLong

Look, I would like to use leaded fuel in my pre- cat cars. Before 911 I was a frequent participant at my local airport. When I was in the navy all of my out of date fuel samples of 145/115 ended up in my car! I don't get the bit about your flying experience. Does that make you a expert on the laws? I'm no stranger to 1820's and 3350's or for that matter J-34's , J 65's, J52's and TF30 P6. and the good old trusty Continental E225. I went to school for those engines. But and mine and your aviation experience does not have any meaning when it relates to the law governing a motor vehicle on a public HWY.

I'm just the messenger here. What you need to read and understand is the Clean Air Act from January 1, 1996. Just read it.

A guy my age shouldn't recognize the music from that video of the kid in the barn.

And writing a ticket for "stupid" is a violation of Darwin's Law. Why do so many people fight against natural selection these days?

I must have been about 13 or 14 when my Grandfather tossed a pint of gasoline on a smoldering leaf fire to get it going. Poof, burning leaves all over the place.

This is a good topic. For me, about 1 PM and all the gar in the '60 will be fresh.

Oh, and waaay back in my Navy days we had JP 5.

Bernie

......... I don't get the bit about your flying experience. ....... But and mine and your aviation experience does not have any meaning when it relates to the law governing a motor vehicle on a public HWY..

Helfen, I think Glong was explaining that Avfuel does not attack rubber components, plus it runs just fine (better) than most anything else.

MOST avgas has some lead content. The Clean Air Act (1990 supplement) BANNED the use of leaded gasoline in the USA except for aircraft; therefore road tax is not the only issue with using avgas for highway use in the USA. (I haven't bothered to research leaded use in other countries).

Avgas will run in older engines, but as the octane is higher than necessary, may get less fuel economy and power than fuels with lower octane. Most older engines have insufficent timing advance/compression to completely burn the higher octane. Higher performance "muscle car" engines from the 1960's (Ram Air GTO's, dual quad hemi's, etc.) will tolerate the octane much better than 1930's engines.

Interesting that the FAA and EPA totally disagree on the effects of ethanol on an internal combustion engine. Perhaps this has to do with the consequences to the inhabitants of the vehicle should a catastrophic engine failure occur.

Some older tractors WERE calibrated to run "distillate" or kerosene. The ones we used when I was significantly younger had a small tank for gasoline to start the tractor, and normal tanks for distillate to run AFTER the engine was up to normal operating temperature. The carburetors for distillate engines are significantly different in calibration than those for gasoline.

Jon.

Maybe I am showing my age, but I recall when avgas WAS taxed for road use and you got a credit on your income tax to refund the amount used in the air.

But maybe my age is playing tricks with my memory.

I believe you're thinking of diesel fuel that is used "off road". Around here you can buy non federal taxed off road diesel but it's dyed red. Back to the old gas ethanol gas discussion. I've been using 10% ethanol gas in ALL my cars old and new, lawn mowers, weed whackers, chain saws, stand by generator and leaf blower. Knock on wood I've had absolutely no fuel related problems with any of them and I'm not at all retentive about keeping the fuel "fresh"...............Bob

.... I've been using 10% ethanol gas in ALL my cars old and new, lawn mowers, weed whackers, chain saws, stand by generator and leaf blower. Knock on wood I've had absolutely no fuel related problems with any of them and I'm not at all retentive about keeping the fuel "fresh"...............Bob

I wish I was as lucky Bob. Right now I have a weed whacker that is gummed up, a 3 inch sludge pump with a clogged carb. (will not start), and a pressure washer that will only run "WIDE OPEN", butterfly frozen. This washer is only 3 years old.

Forgot to mention a 327 engine that will not idle, also runs poorly, and my fuelly Vette that has been in the shop twice. (you don't want to know what that cost me) Speaking of the fuelly, a friend of mine is considering changing his 50's model to carb version, a real travesty.

I don't know about av gas being taxed for road use. But I do know that if you buy your boat gas at a regular gas station and save your gas receipts for boat use you can get some money back from the marine board here in Oregon.

There is some kind of formula that they use to estimate boat gas usage and they give that to the marine board that uses it mostly to maintain launch ramps and the likes. I have never tried to claim that tax money, but it come out of that fund.

Helfen, I think Glong was explaining that Avfuel does not attack rubber components, plus it runs just fine (better) than most anything else.

Wayne, I think the fact that Aviation fuel 145/115 and 100LL does no harm at all to cork, neoprene, rubber and plastic components is a well understood point. Aviation fuel takes a long time to go bad is also a given point that most people in the auto and aviation industry know very well too.

To go on and on about using that fuel in our street cars when it's illegal is futile.

I should make the point that I think 145/115 isn't being made anymore. I was made aware of this at a Oldsmobile Zone meet of all places when three of us guys from former VP squadrons were talking and a fourth guy came up to us who was a former pilot in a Royal Canadian Navy's P-2 squadron who told us that Canada got rid of them because there was no 145/115 fuel for them. I know of one B-29 and also one firefighting P-2 and several firefighter S-2's are in operation, but I bet they have done some internal engine modifications if they are running on 100LL. I also understand that the government wants a substitute for 100LL.

I wish I was as lucky Bob. Right now I have a weed whacker that is gummed up, a 3 inch sludge pump with a clogged carb. (will not start), and a pressure washer that will only run "WIDE OPEN", butterfly frozen. This washer is only 3 years old.

Forgot to mention a 327 engine that will not idle, also runs poorly, and my fuelly Vette that has been in the shop twice. (you don't want to know what that cost me) Speaking of the fuelly, a friend of mine is considering changing his 50's model to carb version, a real travesty.

I must be living right. Either that or I'll go out tomorrow and not a damn thing will run...............Bob

A guy my age shouldn't recognize the music from that video of the kid in the barn.

And writing a ticket for "stupid" is a violation of Darwin's Law. Why do so many people fight against natural selection these days?

I must have been about 13 or 14 when my Grandfather tossed a pint of gasoline on a smoldering leaf fire to get it going. Poof, burning leaves all over the place.

This is a good topic. For me, about 1 PM and all the gar in the '60 will be fresh.

Oh, and waaay back in my Navy days we had JP 5.

Bernie

In the Navy we used JP 5 in jet engines. We used 145/115 in piston aircraft in the Navy. The Navy probably still uses JP 5 unless that has been reformulated. One exception I know of regarding JP 5 in jet engines is when jet engines ( j-34's) were fitted to the P2 Neptune to run along with the twin 3,350's radials they ( the j-34's ) were made to burn 145/115.