Vintage Wrapped Chain Cabless

I'm working on a 1907 Holsman horseless carriage and need to replace the wrapped chain cables that form the transmissions to the rear wheels.

Has anyone tried (and hopefully suceeded) to manufacture or source these unusual items?

Dave

Can you post a photo of any of the remaining 'wrapped chain cable'?

Wrapped I understand, but chain is much different than a cable. Unless somehow both are used together ??

GLong

Definitely one of the engineering quirks of it's time. It is a chain with what looks like wire strands running along the chain and then wrapped in a 1.5 inch reinforced (leather?) rubber (?) strip like a spiral cable wrap. The ideal is fine and it certainly has good strength but probably not too durable. Probably why in later times some Holsmans' were modified to chain and sproket drives. How it was made is a mystery, hence I'm hoping someone else has been here before us!

I'm on the road just now but will post some photos when I get back, thanks for the interest.

It sounds like some kind of industrial drive belt. May have been used in industry like flat belt drive.

Pictures of "cable" below. Taken on workshop floor so appologies for the quality. The cable is a 30mm (ish) chain with four 10mm diameter ropes (like washing line!) laid parrallel with the chain and then wrapped in a fabric/rubber strip.

As noted above, probably a form of industrial drive belt.

Grateful for any guidance on the best way of recreating a pair of these.

I wouldn't know where to start to reproduce that belt, but I think you might be better off finding a modern equivalent drive belt. For example, my mower deck uses a double 'v' belt that is roughly 1" or 25=26mm in cross section. This rubberized fabric belt seems to be able to take a lot of abuse, and transfer a lot of power in it's current application.

What is the shape of the pulleys that this wrapped chain cable runs in?

GLong

Thanks, the drives are roughly V shaped. At the moment V belts are used and do work. However, how well they will last has yet to be determined.

As the car is part of a museum, rather than a personal collection, we are trying to keep it as accurate as we can whilst still keeping her road worthy. We give her road time to promote the museum but this does need reliability too - pushing her home again is too much like hard work! So some compromise may be needed if the cables prove too difficult.

Have you tried industrial supply places like Grainger or your local industrial supply places? That is what I was driving at when I suggested an industrial origin.

I seriously doubt Holsman invented and manufactured the drive belts themselves. I suspect they bought off the shelf pulleys and belts that were mass produced to drive industrial machinery. It is barely possible such drive systems are still used. After all, chain drive and flat belt drives are still used and they are now well over 100 years old.

Thanks for the steer

Dear Dave,

Thank you and I respect your desire to display this vehicle as original as possible. I own a 1906 Holsman model 9 and have made correct and functioning drive ropes. The power transmission drive rope for the early Holsman highwheel automobile was the invention of Henry K. Holsman as shown in his U.S. patent 956,578 and was used until 1909 when a friction chain was employed(I have one of these also). My ropes were missing at time of vehicle purchase so I made ropes following the original design that have provided years of service and I do drive my vehicle very often. They consist of endless chain fitted for its length with four ropes as a filler to round out the assembly all spiral wrapped with friction tape and an outer layer of canvas belting. Commercially available 5/16 inch link chain is connected together with a 5/16 inch repair link. Four pieces of "clothesline" rope the same length as the chain is laid over the chain to "make it round". The friction tape (which is adhesive impregnated cloth tape sticky on both sides) is spirally wrapped slightly overlapping around the whole assembly. The outer layer is made from 1 1/2 inch wide lengths of 1/8 inch thick military webbed material. This is also spirally wrapped edge to edge(no overlap) the entire length of the chain assembly and when the ends meet they are stitched together with heavy twine. Do NOT get any webbing that has been waterproofed as you will have NO friction grip only slipping ropes (experience speaking). A good source is the outer covering of "old" fire hose.

Determining the length needed is trial and error but forgiving. They must be slack enough to slip on the rotating jackshaft in neutral yet sufficiently tight when the jackshaft is in forward drive position allowing for a strong pull on the jackshaft when hill climbing. Perhaps your v-belt will help determine a starting length. Any questions get back to me. Good luck, Diane

Diane your an angel, many thanks,Dave

Diane your an angel, many thanks,Dave

Dear Dave,

Your angel must have had her head in the clouds!! I looked over my spare parts today and the chain is 3/16 NOT 5/16. And a 3/16 connecting link or repair link. Maybe my finger just walked to the wrong number. Sorry for my error. Hope all this helps you to do the job correctly. Diane

Thats fine, wish I had the same attention to detail, would problem avoid a few remakes!

Your help really is much appreciated.

Dave