Manifold casting source?

I have a friend restoring a 1931 Graham with a rare engine 298.6 CID. He needs to cast an intake and exhaust manifold for his Graham. He has good parts to use as a pattern. Anybody recommend a good source?

Having core box patterns made for the interior spaces of the manifolds will be the expensive and time consuming part. Once you have the patterns having them cast and machined isn't a problem.

He will be REALLY deep into that project unless he can sell 10 or so. There must be another 31 Graham with that engine. We had Auburn manifolds done here:

Can-Do (John Wojohowski) 815-422-0176 manifold casting. There is a pattern maker in the area, his name is Art .

Yep, the pattern maker gets the big bucks.

Cattail Foundry in PA. I don't think they have a web site, but I'm sure someone for PA. will chime in with there address.

I have used cattail Foundry They are amish , don't use phones . Do have thave address will get it from the shop when I go out later Kings32

We use Cattail on a regular basis. They can do manifold castings but they don't do core patterns. I'm guessing you will spend $5k + for core patterns, after which the actual castings might only cost $300 or less.

Have you tried Doug Greer in Cobourg Ont. for a manifold as he has done a couple of Grahams or know someone who has one. Grahams seem so be very popular in my area.

I will try Doug.

I was thinking the outside must look just like the inside (core)? If you computer scan the outside of the manifold do an offset to the inside you would have the CAD of the core? You could do a 3D print out of the core. Most big cities have someone doing rapid prototype stuff by the hour for machine time, it could be reasonable, not cheep but much more realistic price. He is working on a set to use as a pattern.

Sounds easy but it would take someone with an advanced knowledge of foundry work as well as someone with the ability to produce a 3D print out of the core. You also would need to have pattern boards made. You also have to account for shrinkage which might be significant in a long manifold casting. Where to place the sprues and risers is critical to a successful pour. Not to discourage you but you are embarking on a costly and time consuming adventure. At the end of the day you will likely find that the project is not economically feasible unless you can sell 10 or so castings.

Are the original manifolds that damaged that they can't be welded back together using the cast iron rod from Muggyweld?

If you can make a CAD drawing of the core, then the core sand can be 3D printed for $150 or so. No core box is needed. You just hand the core to your foundryman.

Yes, but you would still need a 2 piece pattern board for the exterior of the manifold carefully indexed to the core. Might actually be cheaper to have a core box made and let the foundryman make the cores as needed.

I do not know what the manifold looks like, but if it can be pulled from a simple cope/drag flask, then all you need is a loose pattern with proper core prints to locate the core.

A loose pattern can be made in several different ways, some economical, some more expensive.

Here are some photos of a 3D printed pattern and core and the final aluminum casting. Most of what's marked up on the red pattern is core print (it holds the core in place). I included two castings on one pattern. It's about 22" long. This is called loose pattern work, no pattern boards are needed. You just give your foundry the red pattern and sand core.

Mind if I file away your info in case we need cores or patterns made? Do you do 3D scanning as well? Ball park price for a pattern and core as shown? Foundry technology has come a long way from baked molasses and sand cores.

Sure, I will help if I can. For loose pattern work as shown above, I often use American Alloy Foundry in Baltimore, owned by Bob Eagan. He's a good guy.

I have not needed 3D scanning yet. The red Pattern is about $400 and the Core shown is about $150 plus $100 shipping (they are delicate). Then you have to add the CAD drawing time, which depends a lot on how much information I have to start with. For this job, say $1000.

Lee Stohr 540-255-6772

And after all that the actual casting in aluminum would likely be under $100 from the Amish foundry we use. Even a cast iron manifold would only be a few hundred for the actual casting.

If a casting is really complicated, if it originally required a pallet of patterns and if you only need one or two castings, then I would skip the pattern making all together. I would use ExOne's patternless casting process. You still need someone to draw your part in CAD, and ExOne takes it from there. They give a guaranteed fixed price and schedule for the casting. I produce CAD drawings and often use ExOne. There are more economical ways to get simple castings made, but for the really tough castings in low volumes, ExOne in the USA is the most professional, trouble free, way to go.

No one has mentioned the cost of machining the "sand cast" manifold mounting flanges to include bolt holes and facing precisely the vertical face so they do not leak especially going up against an old block in this case. In my over 43 years in the industrial sand cast foundry business the cost of the casting is the cheapest part...the cost of machining is a lot more. You will have to find a machinist who will have to charge for low volume set up costs, time, labor, etc. (Parting Lines are down the middle thus the flanges for example will have roughly 2-3 degrees of draft from center so this will have to be machined for the flush finish desired and you will be responsible to tell the machinist how much machine stock to take off.)

As for ExOne google them. Wall Street is slamming them due to terrible losses as recently as 3/15/15. Wonder why...

If you just want to make it drivable take a page from the hot rodders book and make both manifolds out of tubular and plate steel. It won't look stock when you open the hood but until the hood is raised no one will know except for a little louder exhaust note.

I can't believe I just typed that but as someone pointed out it may be a long search for an original manifold and if you have to have one made it is going to be very expensive. If you can weld and do a bit of basic machine work you can fabricate them yourself ... Teens used to do it (a friend did an exhaust header set up for his Model "A" at 14) - you can do it or have it done by one of the shops that work on the local race cars .... they might not even charge an arm and a leg once they know what it's for.

Just my two cents

I have received only good castings from ExOne since 2010. There are other companies in Europe doing similar work, Voxeljet for one.

Machining a casting is an additional cost. I don't do machining but I do provide the drawings for the machinist.

I have received only good castings from ExOne since 2010. There are other companies in Europe doing similar work, Voxeljet for one.

Machining a casting is an additional cost. I don't do machining but I do provide the drawings for the machinist.

There you have it, Lee. Graham Man (the OP) needs the full extent of the end costs so he has the best answer to his query.

As for ExOne they are not looking too good for survival based upon the losses they are suffering.

If you can get a pattern made we, and a lot of hobby friends, use Tomahawk Foundry at Rice Lake, Wisconsin

Perfect castings.......always.

http://www.tomahawkfoundry.com

If you need a reproduction casting, I can deliver the casting. You don't need to know what foundry poured it if you're not interested in all the engineering detail.

There are pattern shops in the USA that can do what ExOne does. I just happen to have a good relationship with the guys in Troy, Michigan.