Guest martinalejandre Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 1986 grand nationalHi my name is martin im new to this page im needing some advice ... i recently bought what i believe is a grand national its a 1986 beautiful car everything seems to be correct on the car from badges to original motor it has 42k original miles car is in awesome shape ive done tons of research on the car but im very confused on what kind of car i truly have the exterior seems to be the all black grand national i checked the paint codes its 19 u and 19 L which is black upper black lower the trunk sticker parts code list is intact but i dont see the we-2 grand national code on it anywhere that is what is confusing me i have all grey leather interior im 3rd owner previous owner said the original owner ordered it like that from the factory ... ive looked thru tons of photos and read alot of forums where people say if its not a we-2 its not a gran national... previous owner says this car is very rare and has a t-type interior package making it a t-type grand national... my interior is from the two tone grey and black exterior grand national ... so i guess i truly dont know what car it is i own.?? Any help would be greatly aprreciated i have pictures to share and i have a picture with all codes and i have the cowl tag codes someone please help me out id greatly appreciate it thanks*Alejandremartin.agt@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUICK RACER Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Hi Martin, check out this page with your VIN. http://www.gnttype.org/general/vin.html and here :https://service.gm.com/dealerworld/vincards/pdf/vincard86.pdfGrand Nationals did not come with leather interiors, T-types could have been built with leather. My '86 GN window sticker says it's a Regal T-type with the WE2 Grand National Option. Like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest exbcmc Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Weren't those the fastest production cars of that era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 What i dont get is my car is all black paint codes say its all black has all proper badges motor and tranny codes are correct 7th and 8th digit of vin are consistent with a grand national just doesnt have that national package ... is there such thing as a t-type grand national? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Yes faster than a corvette and a Lamborghini in that era ... fastest production car made had more horses than a corvette 350 motor and it was a v6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUICK RACER Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 What i dont get is my car is all black paint codes say its all black has all proper badges motor and tranny codes are correct 7th and 8th digit of vin are consistent with a grand national just doesnt have that national package ... is there such thing as a t-type grand national?So it's a black Regal T-type, then someone put Grand National Badges on it, or the plant screwed up cause it was black they just assumed it was a GN would be my bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Weren't those the fastest production cars of that era?No. The Buick GNX has that distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 So it's a black Regal T-type, then someone put Grand National Badges on it, or the plant screwed up cause it was black they just assumed it was a GN would be my bet!Well im gona have to take it to the dealership to get an answer i honestly dont see this car being cloned everything looks correct and it doesnt have the red T anywhere the t-type should have if it was cloned they did one hell of a job not one thing missing on the car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 It would be a waste of time taking it to a dealership - they have no clue on older cars. You could post some detailed pictures, pic of the data tags, interior etc. It's hard to look at a white page and see much of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Do you have an email i can send you pictures ...?? Not quite sure how to post pics on here im new to forums ... thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Private messaged it to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 What about the "Turbo T" Regal? At this point in time, all the dealership could do is decode the VIN, as you probably can do on various websites you can access yourself. Unlike some Chrysler models, many GM vehicles are suspected of being separate models when they start with a basic car and it's the option packages which define the vehicle to be what it ends up being. Chevy Z-28s were that way for many years. Later fwd Buick Park Avenues were really (according to the option list) a Buick Electra with the W10 Park Avenue option package (but full Park Avenue badging) . . . although the VIN decode lists the Z-28 as "Camaro" and the Park Avenue decode lists "Buick Electra".When the "Turbo T" option was operative, I believe you could basically option a Regal with many of the GN items, but it not be a Grand National per se. Related to interior options and available exterior paint colors. This made for some "factory sleeper"-oriented vehicles, under the radar, so to speak, as there was no "Grand National" badging, just the "Turbo 6" badge and possibly a "T" emblem (somewhere) too. Seems like the Turbo T was more rare that the GNs were? IIRC. It's been a while since I looked about those things.Finding such a car, with such low mileage, can be a great find. Congrats.NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The label in the trunk would help too. Like Roberta (Buick Racer) said, you've got a T-Type that someone put Grand National badges on. When (if) you sell it, you should not represent it as a Grand National as it doesn't look to be one, unless proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Willis, the Turbo-T was 1987 only. In 1986 (and earlier) they were known as T-Types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Maybe you can post some of the pictures i emailed you @my3buicks .... man im so confused ...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 W11 code = T-Type appearance package, basically the blackout stuff. The car is not a Grand National, sorry.Hope you didn't pay GN money for it. It is a very attractive Buick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So is all the grand national badges steering wheel dashboard wheels all that doesnt belong to the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Well im gona have to take it to the dealership to get an answer i honestly dont see this car being cloned everything looks correct and it doesnt have the red T anywhere the t-type should have if it was cloned they did one hell of a job not one thing missing on the carThey missed the entire interior. No GN was ever produced with the leather interior such as you have. All the badges, even today, can be bought and put on the car. I am truly sorry this was done and the person you bought it from basically lied to you. Oh, and the 86 would not have the red "T", but would have a badge saying "T-Type". Red "T" was 1987 only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So is all the grand national badges steering wheel dashboard wheels all that doesnt belong to the car?Correct. Wrong wheels too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So the t-type comes with leather interior ? My car has all grey leather interior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Also i was looking at the price guide and i saw the prices for "t-type grand national" could you tell me what a t-type grand national means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Brad could you be kind enough to email me id greatly appreciate it Alejandremartin.agt@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 A T-Type CAN come with a leather interior (optional). In 1986 the GN's came through as "T-Type"s and had the optional WE2 Grand National option. No WE2, no GN. Sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Check out this link: http://gnttype.org/forums/archive/index.php?t-12481.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So what is the correct name for the car i have ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Conley Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 A Buick Regal T-Type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 You may want to have the emblems and such removed from the car and take it back to what it is - it would still be a fantastic car and could be appreciated for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest martinalejandre Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Thanks for that clarification, Brad.NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I would take it back to T-Type status, too, which is far less common than the Grand National, and with low mileage, it's a great find. Was all that blackout trim standard with the T-Type? I know I've seen several with lots of chrome but never one all blacked out.I recall working at another dealership and a Regal T-Type came in that was loaded to the gills and dressed like your grandmother's car. Burgundy with tan leather, a padded opera roof, landau lights, lots of chrome, etc. The only giveaways that there was serious blasting powder under the hood was the bulge on the hood (with badges), dual exhaust, and the GN-style alloy wheels (which apparently came with the turbo motor). One of the coolest cars I've ever seen. I would have put a set of widened steel wheels with wire hubcaps on it and gone hunting Corvettes with Grandma's Buick. It was AWESOME.This is a cool car. Don't be discouraged that it isn't a GN, put it back the way it should be and enjoy it. You'll have the only one at shows and instead of everyone walking past saying, "Oh, look, another Grand National," they'll be saying, "Wow, what the heck is that?" Interesting is far better than generic and the herd isn't always right about what's cool and what isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Interesting is far better than generic and the herd isn't always right about what's cool and what isn't.You can say that again. Never mind, I just did..... so it is a silver purse after all, and never was a sow's ear at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967 - 1997 Riviera Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 No. The Buick GNX has that distinction.When Car and Driver tested the Grand National in 1987, they titled the story "Speed is a Gunslinger in Black." I can still remember the opening paragraph of the story:"Corvette get out of town. Mustang move over. Camaro keep your back to the wall at all times. The biggest, baddest gun in town is loose and there's gonna be some shooting."Farther down the page they said:"O-k. No more fooling around. The Buick Grand National pictured here can scream from zero to sixty faster than any other car made in America. Period."Their measured 0-60 acceleration time was...3.4 seconds. There was only one car made in the world that could beat that time and it was the Porsche 911 turbo, which cost, in 1987 dollars, about $50,000.00. The Grand National was a bargain in comparison, even if you discounted some dealers wanting inflated prices for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It is not faster than the GNX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The GNX is a special animal indeed. More boost, more aggressive engine controls, and even more upgrades to the suspension. If you can find a GNX, expect to pay 3-5 times more for it than a garden-variety GN. Most have very low miles as EVERYONE realized that they were going to be special, and only a relative handful were built.These turbo Buicks are still legendary. I have a 1993 Mustang with a rather stout 5.0 stroker motor in it that I bought new and built for road racing when I was working at a major Corvette tuner in the mid-90s. My Mustang dynoed at 306 horsepower at the rear wheels (maybe 360-375 at the crank) and about 330 pounds of torque. Not stellar numbers today, but enough to push it into the 12s on street tires and make C5 Corvette and Viper drivers wonder what the hell I had under the hood when I would stuff that Mustang up their tailpipes on road courses (which is, of course, what the car was built to do). At any rate, my Mustang is a pretty fast car. And I STILL won't mess with a big, bad, blown, black Buick on the street. You're a computer chip away from a solid 300 horsepower and a few minor upgrades away from 400. These cars have HUGE untapped performance potential and the GNX only scratched the surface.The only thing better might be the 1989 Trans Am Turbo pace cars, which featured this engine in a chassis that was 500 pounds lighter and actually designed to handle and stop. If you're of a certain age like I am, that was the greatest car GM [barely] built in the 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Seems like it was revealed later that when C&D did that GN test, it was in the dead of winter in MI. On the surface that might not seem too "bad", but with that colder (not cooler!) ambient temperature, it meant the pavement was cold and would require some care in getting the rear tires to hook up. BUT, it also made the intercooler much more effective, which means all of the computer's powertrain maps were super-optimized for power output, due to the colder air cooling the intercooler. More boost, less detonation limiter intervention, etc. Hence, that's why their GN test had the best performance numbers when compared to other similar GNs tested at other times of the year. End result, a 100 degree day in TX or AZ would probably have returned more normal results. Back then, C&D had some very good test drivers on the drag strip. Even on bad days, they could have better acceleration times on any vehicle, when compared to other magazines' tests of the same or similar vehicles. It seemed they took great pride in their results and could repeat them if needed.NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezestaak2000 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 back then, gm didn't want the regal body style going too fast so they put a speed limiter chip in the computor. the story was that the FBI had a few of them without the speed limiter. also, the gnx drivetrain was available in the firebird for i think, only one year. it also did not have the speed limiter because gm thought that body style could handle speeds over 120 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Speed limiter had more to do with the car not having speed rated tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES_BUICKS Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 back then, gm didn't want the regal body style going too fast so they put a speed limiter chip in the computor. the story was that the FBI had a few of them without the speed limiter. also, the gnx drivetrain was available in the firebird for i think, only one year. it also did not have the speed limiter because gm thought that body style could handle speeds over 120 mph. You're right about the FBI GN's without the speed limiter. I worked in AC Spark Plug engineering (Actually part of Delco Electronics at that time), and we were responsible for GM instrument clusters. We had to release a special instrument cluster for the FBI GN's being built. They required a 160 or 180 mph digital speedometer (if my memory is correct), and were being equipped with speed rated tires I don't remember how many of those clusters we built in Flint, but it was a special one time run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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