bhclark's Dead '58 Super Revival

This is a continuation thread of Brian's electrical issue here:

http://forums.aaca.org/f162/dead-58-super-no-power-help-382187.html

So, a little background for those who didn't read the thread linked above: The wiring harness had burned up as a result of (we believe) a major short in the generator. It completely destroyed the forward harness and dash harness. Brian found a local restoration shop that tackled the project. When they returned the car, there were several gremlins apparent. I will get to those in a minute. Meanwhile, Brian had just power washed the underside of the car, and was pulling back into the driveway when it just died. No lights, no instruments, starter, etc. NOTHING. Days of frustration turned into a dead car sitting for a couple months.

I think Brian was about to toss a molotov cocktail into the front seat and walk away at the point when he gave up the quest to find out why the car had no power. He contacted me for assistance, and I hooked up the trailer and drove to Cincinnati on Saturday this past weekend. Once the car was loaded up, we found a place to stay overnight and grabbed some brews and wings from the local Buffalo Wild Wings. We got up on Sunday and dragged it back to St. Louis.

Sunday night, I decided to start checking voltages. Battery was charged fully, and fine. I had power at the starter, voltage regulator. Horn had power. Headlight switch had power. NO power at the ignition switch. I was about to start unwrapping the harness to find out where those two wires were spliced together, because the chassis manual shows a junction right in the middle of all the mess of the harness behind the dash.

On a whim, I checked to see which spade was supposed to get power at the headlight switch. I looked in the manual, and it was labeled as the second post from the front of the switch (closest to the dash). I took a look at the harness plug, and the big red wire was plugged into the 3rd spot. I figured I had nothing to lose, so I put it where the manual said it was supposed to be. EUREKA the car starts and runs! Now, everyone is wondering how the car was running in the first place. I will refrain from answering that question because I don't know the answer. But I do know that the harness that was cut out of the car had the power wire in the 3rd spot as well. Brian furnished me with a dash section from a 57 Super that had a headlight switch with the harness still attached...and it also has the wire in the 3rd position. The 58 Chassis manual states it is to be in the 2nd position. The manual also states the 3rd position is for the power antenna. AH...so we have a car without a power antenna. Might the headlight switch be for a car with power antenna? It still does not explain why it ran before. Unless it was swapped out and someone didn't tell me that :cool:

So anyway, the trunk light was next on the list. I pulled the socket out and the wire had broken off the back of the socket. Out came the solder gun and everything was good there.

Tonight's quest was to continue the list of electrical issues. Front left turn signal was not working, signal indicators were said not to be working, but I think that problem was remedied with the headlight switch. Also, the right low beam headlight was dead.

Headlight - I swapped it with a new one, and was still dead. I wiggled the harness connector at the core support and the light flickered. One of the ends of the wire was not crimped adequately. Problem solved. But we still lost an original T3 headlight

Turn signal - The right signal was erratic and unsteady. Left one didn't click at all, but the left rear was blinking quickly. I replaced the flasher. Right signal was now steady, and so was the left...but the front left signal did not work. After 30 minutes of tracking where the wire went and checking voltage at every connector, I made it all the way to the signal switch on the column. I pulled the connector off, and the wire going into the connector was only halfway in. I pushed it back in, and as I was plugging the connector back to the switch, I noticed the space was bent where it would not go into the connector. Fixed that, and we now have functioning signals.

I have a few more electrical issues to sort out, and a little cleanup work to do from the "restoration shop's" mess when they installed the wire harness.

Once that is complete, the car is going to get new seats and some door panel repair. Some other detailing will be done as well.

This reminds me of a sign that is hanging in my neighbor's shop:

If I recall correctly, my power antenna in my first 56 worked without the ignition being turned on. That may mean spot two and three on the headlight switch are directly connected. Maybe there is some corrosion on spot 3 that prevented connection? Just speculation of course. I still cannot believe the ignition switch is powered through the headlight switch, but instead that junction you speak of may be right next to the headlight switch bundle and maybe it got moved around while you were pulling on the harness ?

Definitely a possibility. This does make me think twice about having to rewire a car in the future. Although, it appears that some haste was made in the installation of this one, and I get to correct all the errors.

My father was an electrician and, like you, he made it look so easy. I struggle with electrical issues. I can usually fix them, but it takes me forever, and I'm never sure what I'm doing. A wiring diagram looks like a giant, confusing maze of colored lines to me. I totally respect the electrician. Good job.

Oh Lord, Adam! DON'T TOSS IN A MOLOTOV COCKTAIL!! I've got that insured with Hagerty! (just kidding you bud...). :-)

Brian already had the wick lit, arm cocked back and ready to throw when I pulled up with the trailer

So the second and third terminals are connected. I either corrected a loose connection in the terminal connector, or jarred something back into position inside the harness. Hmmmm

Continued to chase issues tonight...

Radio was working before the fire. I checked voltage at radio and it's good to there. Radio probably took a hit in the fire.

Clock has power to it, but is inop.

The speed minder relay was cut out of the harness and just left to hang. I reattached it to the correct terminal on the fuse block and speedo.

I also made an attempt to clean up the rheostat on the headlight switch. It now will dim and brighten the dash lights, but will not turn them on by themselves. The other headlight switch I have is also a mess, so the original one went back in.

I have to replace the parking brake light, and probably replace the ballast resistor, since it is currently bypassed. Not good for points.

I would re-disconnect the Speed Minder.

Just have to crank it up to 110 and you'll never have to worry about it! :cool:

Did the headlight switch turn on the interior lights, or do the interior lights have their own individual switches?

BTW, I don't recall if Brian ever posted pictures of that car but it sure looks like a beautiful car in your pictures. Would love to see more of it.

Brian already had the wick lit, arm cocked back and ready to throw when I pulled up with the trailer

You're my hero!

Quickie update: material is all ordered for the interior and headliner. SMS had the correct material for the seats, and we found the right headliner material. The sample that SMS sent was way off. I think their sample was for a Roadmaster with a fabric headliner. This one is the standard diamond pattern. Once my 60 is done at the upholstery shop, yours will be right behind it.

I just have a couple bulbs to replace, then the electrical issues are as good as I can make them without rebuilding the clock and radio.

I've been busy with stainless projects for the last week, and as a result the garage gets dirty...along with everything in it. So any real detailing will wait until those are out the door. It will probably end up being done after the seats are finished.

More gremlins!

I started the car today to move it outside so I could hose the garage out. The ammeter was pegged at C, overcharging at all times. Voltage regulator was getting very hot. Did a VR swap, no difference. I found the engine ground strap on the back side of the engine was broken, so I fixed that. Replaced the burned up ballast resistor that was bypassed when the new harness was put in (what the..)

I finally narrowed it down to the generator. I pulled it out of the car and found one of the wires inside was grounded to the case. I wrapped it and put the generator back in. So, that solved the overcharging problem.

Car was running strong at high idle, but when I blipped the throttle to bring it down, it was slowly lose RPM, then die. I was finally able to get the car to run while it was at low idle, but it has major symptoms of a vacuum leak. I checked all the possible areas I could be losing that much vacuum, but no dice. I pulled the carb off and disassembled it. Hosed out all the bits and blasted air through it. Reassembled, installed, and still have the same issue. All ignition components have been checked. Still acts like a vacuum leak, though. I can put my hand over the carb and the idle smooths out. It is running very lean for some reason. I finally gave up for the night. Tomorrow, I'll buy some fresh gas and try again.

Vacuum loss in that oil pump vacuum pump? Can that be disconnected separately?

That assembly is separate from the engine vacuum system, and it's plugged already. The only thing I hadn't checked yesterday was the throttle shafts on the carb. Will do that this morning.

Consider checking the ignition again. Running for a long time with the ballast resistor bypassed will kill the points and coil. Check the points gap/dwell...small gap/high dwell gives idle problems, but runs good at high speed. If no joy check and clean the idle circuit again.

Willie

How about a rusted out plug in the underside of the intake manifold?

Dan

Dan, the rusted plug would only cause a massive exhaust leak.

I did find that the throttle shafts are allowing some major leakage. Idle quality improves tremendously if hosed down at the primary shaft. I'm sending it out for repair tomorrow. Turn around time is 3-4 weeks

Willie, I did check the ignition bits, because I was worried they were fried from being run without the ballast resistor. Everything has checked out good in that area. Plus, since I can now pinpoint the source of the vacuum leak, I can fix it.

Adam: I should have known that, but did not. All I had to do was go out to the shop and look at one.

I bet you have the problem diagnosed with the throttle shaft.

Carburetor was a fresh rebuild back in 2011? Should have less than 2000 miles on it. It's a '59 Carter as the original Rochester was shot.

Plug on the intake is good. Intake is a farm fresh one, as the original had a welded thin steel plate in place of the cast one. Intake was also cleaned by a machine shop prior to installation.

Ballast resistor was bypassed by the "restoration" facility that did the fire repair. And yes, I have blasted them on every review page I can find.

The vacuum leak is much better than it used to be. I replaced the intake manifold gaskets and the hoses for the power brakes, plus the wiper hose was plugged.

You can understand my frustration with Snow White now, can't you! I don't have the knowledge or patience that you do...

Sometimes it just takes fresh eyes.

Plus, my personal cars always fight back more than somebody else's cars. I know that is the case with many people.