Parking for 2015 National Meet, Springfield

Currently, you can enter your car for only one judging category. You must pick either 400 point, Driven, Archival, or Modified. Or course, you can choose not to have your car judged with Display only.

Thanks Roy, JGTSWIK !! I should have read up on the judging manual a bit before commenting, sorry if I created any confusion with my wrong comments.

I was always under the impression that 400 pt cars could also receive a driven award. I think certainly there should be some sort of additional recognition or mention made on the 400 pt award to the effect the car was driven to the meet. If nothing else but a nicely done stamp (perhaps a steering wheel with "DRIVEN" across the center) to be stamped on the award at time of doing the individual awards before presentation. I just have a lot of respect for those who sometimes drive their cars cross country,often times possibly encountering problems that may delay them or not even let them make it to the show or if they make it the additional time and work to clean and ready the car for the show field.

I understand that parking the different classes together may mean for a little more walking for some judges, and I appreciate that effort. It is really important to some of us.

To help the matter though, I recommend printing color-coded registration sheets for each class to be displayed in the window. This will make identifying much easier for not only the judges, but the other participants so they can know how the car they are looking at is classified.

I can fully understand how parking all classes together is important to many, but can't see how those who don't find it important would be against it, so it is certainly the right thing to do I believe.

this only became an issue when the Driven Class was formed, it never was an issue prior

I think this policy can be reviewed as well. The main reason for not allowing a car into more than one class had to do mainly with parking. The Driven cars and the Archival cars were parked in different parts of the parking lot, separate from the 400 point cars. All of the judging took place at the same time, so it could not be in two different judging classes because a car could not be in two places at one time. However, now with the change in parking policy, the car does not have to move to be judged 400 point, Driven, or Archival. It can stay put, and the judges will come to it. We could indicate on the windshield cards what classes they are to be judged in. Of course, this is my opinion, and the judges may have a different view on this. But I think it can be done with a bit more effort.

At the 2010 Iowa National Meet, the Driven class was judged on Friday, which allowed a car to be judged in the 400 point or Archival on Saturday, and there wasn't any problems with that. The registrant paid for both classes in Iowa.

"Also, the new standard for the Saturday awards ceremony has been set at about 2 hours. Multiple awards on 1 car would jeopardize that swift event."

I don't think given out multiple awards would lengthen the awards banquet that much. Currently, the Driven class awards are given out on the show field. At the banquet, the 400 point awards are handed out first, then the Archival awards. The same format would still be used. It's just that maybe a few more awards would be handed out due to the same cars perhaps receiving more than one award.

Speaking of the awards banquet, I do not like the awards presentation starting before we have time to finish eating. I know they do this to shorten the length of the banquet, but I would rather have the banquet last 30 minutes longer. First of all, no one pays attention to the speakers while they are eating. This is rude and disrespectful to the speaker. Secondly, the first speakers do not get a chance to eat with the others. By the time they are finished speaking, their meal is cold and the others have finished. Thirdly, I like to have a chance to have a conversation with the people I'm sitting with, and all conversation stops when the awards ceremony begins. Eat first, relax, then present the awards.

I was always under the impression that 400 pt cars could also receive a driven award. I think certainly there should be some sort of additional recognition or mention made on the 400 pt award to the effect the car was driven to the meet. If nothing else but a nicely done stamp (perhaps a steering wheel with "DRIVEN" across the center) to be stamped on the award at time of doing the individual awards before presentation. I just have a lot of respect for those who sometimes drive their cars cross country,often times possibly encountering problems that may delay them or not even let them make it to the show or if they make it the additional time and work to clean and ready the car for the show field.

I've always driven one of my Buicks from Massachusetts to the Nationals that I've attended and have then entered them in the 400 point class. Buicks are made to be driven.

lancemb, if I could reach through this computer, I'd give you a big ol' sloppy kiss - well, I'd shake your hand for sure. I feel totally vindicated by your remarks regarding the parking of the same classes together. Your suggestion of the color coded windshield registration cards is absolutely spot-on. Somebody is gonna have to tell me why people cannot see how simple this is. It solves the made-up problem and judges will not have to do any more walking than they would anyway. lancemb, I have just one more thing to say to you - GOOD ON YA, SON!!

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

I believe different colored window cards have always been used for various classes, and within classes, I believe within a class senior cars have a different color, and out of class I believe Archival, modified and driven do as well.

lancemb, if I could reach through this computer, I'd give you a big ol' sloppy kiss - well, I'd shake your hand for sure. I feel totally vindicated by your remarks regarding the parking of the same classes together. Your suggestion of the color coded windshield registration cards is absolutely spot-on. Somebody is gonna have to tell me why people cannot see how simple this is. It solves the made-up problem and judges will not have to do any more walking than they would anyway. lancemb, I have just one more thing to say to you - GOOD ON YA, SON!!

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

Well Terry, find me and my 57 Roadmaster in Springfield and you can give me a cigar instead if you like!

And if the cards have always been color-coded, then even less reason not to have done this before.

Either way, glad this is moving on!

"The Archival cars WILL be parked on the show field with the other classes. No class will be forced to a separated parking spot because of the class they are entered in".

This was a long time coming. Thank you Chuck for this clarification; and thanks to the new BOD & Chief Judge John Steed for making this happen.

As I recall, from the General Membership in Kokomo, IN, when the Driven Award proposal was presented, it was to be separate and NOT take away from the 400 Point Judged vehicles. I don't recall that a Driven Award vehicle could also be entered in the 400 Point Judged classes. The Driven Award, as I understood it, was to get people to DRIVE their Buicks to the events, give them a place "to be proud of their Buicks", receive a recognition award, and expand the BCA National Meet Experience by getting MORE Buicks to the event, which would be "shown" somewhere.

Once the particular Buick owner, who drove their car to the meet for the Driven Class entry, and then saw how close their car might be to some of the 400 Point Judged cars, that it might motivate them to do some work on their Buick and possibly enter it in the 400 Point Judged class in future years. PLUS, also be a place where former 400 Point Judged vehicles might be shown when their owners didn't desire to show them in the 400 Point classes in later years, when the "enjoyment of driving" was better than "enjoyment of high-level class showing".

That's what I remember from "the earlier days", plus the "qualification check" for the Driven Class I heard A LOT about the next year at the Plano Meet we hosted.

I'm not sure what might have changed since that time, regarding the Driven Class, but it looks like somethings might have.

As many are painfully aware, IF the Awards Banquet is to "work right", meal service HAS to be expeditious, plus the awards presentations have to be tightly orchestrated AND managed. Especially IF eating the meal, a short visiting-with tablemates can happen, and THEN the Awards Banquet presentations and acknowledgements. It all should be enjoyable, memorable (in a positive manner), and fun.

Just some thoughts,

Willis Bell 20811

As I recall, from the General Membership in Kokomo, IN, when the Driven Award proposal was presented, it was to be separate and NOT take away from the 400 Point Judged vehicles. I don't recall that a Driven Award vehicle could also be entered in the 400 Point Judged classes. The Driven Award, as I understood it, was to get people to DRIVE their Buicks to the events, give them a place "to be proud of their Buicks", receive a recognition award, and expand the BCA National Meet Experience by getting MORE Buicks to the event, which would be "shown" somewhere.

Once the particular Buick owner, who drove their car to the meet for the Driven Class entry, and then saw how close their car might be to some of the 400 Point Judged cars, that it might motivate them to do some work on their Buick and possibly enter it in the 400 Point Judged class in future years. PLUS, also be a place where former 400 Point Judged vehicles might be shown when their owners didn't desire to show them in the 400 Point classes in later years, when the "enjoyment of driving" was better than "enjoyment of high-level class showing".

That's what I remember from "the earlier days", plus the "qualification check" for the Driven Class I heard A LOT about the next year at the Plano Meet we hosted.

I'm not sure what might have changed since that time, regarding the Driven Class, but it looks like somethings might have.

Just some thoughts,

Willis Bell 20811

This is exactly the pretense and how it was set up at the time, I am not sure how it managed to morph into what it is today with no formal request for changes.

So now that the archival cars will be in class along side their contemporaries where they belong, what is holding back having them judged under the 400 point in the same meet?

"The Archival cars WILL be parked on the show field with the other classes. No class will be forced to a separated parking spot because of the class they are entered in".

This was a long time coming. Thank you Chuck for this clarification; and thanks to the new BOD & Chief Judge John Steed for making this happen.

Three Cheers! Hooray, Hooray, Hooray. Dandy Dave!

First off lets remember why we go to the Nationals, to have fun, meet old friends, meet new friends and to see and enjoy the Buicks.

I am new to this forum but not to the club and the Nationals. Since 03 I have been to 9 Nationals and have judged in 6 of those.

Thanks Chuck for clearifying this up.

To the members that say why don't THEY do this and why don't THEY do that.

Lets remember that THEY are just ordinary members.

There is alot of behind the scenes activites that bring the meet together, volunteers that do those thankless jobs that some people take for granted.

Not sure how many of you actually sign up for judging but there is a little more to it than walking around the field with a clip board and pencil.

The day before you attend a judging class that could take 2-3 hours.

The day of judging you meet up at 7:00 AM to get your assignments.

Last year in Portland I got my second choice 54-55-56 class. That happened to have the most amount of vehicles to be judged.

It started with us being down 1 judge. Do to complications it was close to 4:00 by the time we got done.

By this time some cars have already started to leave. Another member in my preferred class had finished up judging and gone to a local pick & pull yard and was back before that.

Don't get me wrong I am not complaining but trying to get across that there is alot that goes into making it all go around.

Lets not put more onto the plate of judges, remember THEY want to enjoy the meet also.

I agree with Roy that you should be able to finish your meal and have a chat with other people at your table before the awards.

I know that some earlier banquets were drawn out to long but another 1/2 hour would be nice.

There is a way to be in the 400 point class and get a driven award. Its called longest driven award. Buicks were meant to be driven

As far as being next to a driven car and the fact that it is used as home base when I am on the road my car is home base.

I have no problem being parked where ever.

Remember why we are there, to have fun.

Cal Dewhirst

BCA # 16234

As a general rule Cal, I would say the vast majority of the forum members that post are seasoned veterans. Most of us have been around the block a time or two or maybe even three. That is good advice to newer members, but you are preaching to the choir for the most part here.

And you can not assume that this statement is true "First off lets remember why we go to the Nationals, to have fun, meet old friends, meet new friends and to see and enjoy the Buicks" Everyone goes to nationals for different reasons - some of those, all of those, or none of those may be the case.

Often "They" refer to board members, etc, and if "they" don't make the changes it can't get changed. When someone takes on the responsibility to be a board member, meet chairman, judging chair, they become the ones that can make it happen or not. I don't think anyone's "They's" refer to the field judges in the least, I know as well as anyone that it is a thankless job that can even lead to people holding personal grudges against you.

Three Cheers! Hooray, Hooray, Hooray. Dandy Dave!

DITTO!

Remind me NEVER be a judge, never!

It has to be a very tough thing to do, BLESS those that do this THANKLESS duty.

Dale in Indy

Now Everybody vote for Dancin Girls n Beer. Dandy Dave!

Dale - before you swear off judging, let's have a chat...over a beer if necessary. It is a lot of fun, you learn a lot, and it is NOT thankless. There is the occasional boor, but most owners are grateful for the part the volunteer judges play.

I'll try to keep this short, but not sure if I can.

I judged Archival in Portland when cars were parked together. It was great. It was relatively easy to find our cars and since they were parked more or less in year order, and we got to see a big part of the show field.

I don't know what happened to class H in Portland, but what happened should not have. Regardless of class size, if we keep to the standards when judging, we ought to be able to do it within 10 minutes per car, then a couple for tabulation, so 4-5 cars per hour. The judging captain should step up and take on a section if necessary, ideally one with less detail. Being on the show field for six hours either implies a class of well over 20 (I don't recall that being the case), or not following the judging guidelines. If it was necessary, another judging team could have been assembled to lighten the load using judges who were completed their other classes.

Regarding judging in general, remember that many hands make light work. If we had more people step up to get involved, it would be smoother and less time-consuming. Yes, there is the judging school to attend, which is a learning event. Learning is good. You have to attend the breakfast (a free breakfast and cap for participating...there are worse things in life) and participate in the judging.

I don't really know our new Chief Judge, but I am grateful to him for stepping up to take on the task.

As for the general parking situation, I am pleased regarding how it is being done. In reality, it wasn't bad per se, but some of the early pre-war cars in Driven or Archival classes really do stick out. On the one hand, that is good as it can lead to greater recognition that this older Buick is preserved and / or driven. On the other, it does make it easier for the owners to compare notes if the Archival cars are with the restored ones.

Finally, the windshield cards need to be re-thought. With tinted windows, I understand that the Blue we have been using and the white can be difficult to tell apart. I think simply modifying what we put on the card would help make that identification easier. The Class field of the card could have a few more characters printed such as H-400 versus H-DIS as an example to differentiate a class H car (1953-1956) between 400 point judging and a display car. Various schemes could work...this is just a thought. Judges can read, so that could help us out on the show field.

I implore all to consider participating as judges. With more of us, there could be smaller classes, therefore fewer of the complaints of the judges themselves which result from being on the field longer.

We will be changing the windshield cards up a bit this year, just as Thriller suggested. We started last year when the Driven class was placed among the 400 point cars. Instead of the Driven class cards merely saying 'Drivers', they said 'A - Drivers', or 'K - Drivers' to indicate what 400 point class they were to park in. This year the Archival cards will say something similar. Like 'B - Archival', or 'K - Archival'. Also, we will probably change the colors up, too, making them very different than the 400 point class, which is white. We will try to make it as easy as possible to determine what class a car is in, not only by the wording on the card, but also by the different colors, too.

Sounds great! Thanks Roy!

Sounds great, what color for the 400 point judged cars that also want Archival certified?

It has not been decided yet if a car can get more than one award. But, IF it is decided that one car can win more than one award, we can just have multiple cards on it. I think having variations of colors for all of the combinations would be too confusing.

Just checking since all the other decisions are being made on the fly, which isn't necessarily a bad thing

Thriller, glad to learn it's a task that DOES have it's rewards, no pun intended. hehe

I could probably learn, or am I TO OLD? Lol

Dale in Indy