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Parking for 2015 National Meet, Springfield


lancemb

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So, are the cars going to be arranged by year this time, rather than by class? I think many expressed before that they'd love to see different classes grouped together in the same years. Please say it's so...

edit by moderator) this and the following 10 posts were moved here from the "official" 2015 National Meet Springfield thread for CONSTRUCTIVE and FRIENDLY discussion.

Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)
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Guest my3buicks

Of all the classes that SHOULD be integrated (and I am not one that's really in favor of the overall integration) are the Archival cars. These cars should without question b sitting with the judged cars of the same years.

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Here we go again. Barbara and I are planning to come to the meet in Springfield and bring the 1920 K-46 Coupe. We saw and visited with Chuck Kerls this afternoon at the Rod and Custom Car show in Wichita. He told us that the show field was going to be laid out like it was in Portland. We have not sent in the vehicle registration for the meet yet and we just MAY NOT send in a registration for this car and we MAY NOT BRING THE CAR PERIOD if it cannot be parked with the same vintage cars. We know of one 1923 Buick coming from Rome, New York and a 1922 coming from the Washington, D.C. area. I want to set this car down in close proximity to these cars. We know these folks and it makes perfect sense to be close to this era vehicles. If we register this car in the archival class it sounds like we will be relegated to the used car class consisting of 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's. I have absolutely no interest in this era of Buicks. 1954's are a whole different breed of cat - I like the heck out of them. We had a forum participant state on here that they had no use for the first three decades of Buicks and I think most folks would agree that turnabout is fair game. I haven't got much use for late model used Buicks. I am not trying to start anything on here. I just want to be told before we register the car where I am going to be told that I have to park the car. If it is unacceptable, we will leave the car at home. We do not think that this is too much to ask how this parking of the cars issue is going to be handled beforehand. We already know how some members of the BCA management feel about this issue and we are of the opinion that that feeling has not changed much in the last year or so. So, here's the question - am I going to be able to park our 1920 with the same era of cars that register for the meet?

Terry and Barbara Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Dale, it's quite simple. I really do not have much interest in this era of Buicks, Oldsmobiles, Pontiacs, etc. I know it's really not the polite thing to say on here, but we had a forum participant on here a short while back say that he didn't care for the first three decades of Buicks. Where were you when this was said? We are all supposed to be adults on here and for this person to make a statement like that is nothing short of demeaning to folks who like that era of vehicles. See how dumb that sounds. To be told that my early era car isn't worthy enough to be parked along side the same era cars that will be judged is very insulting to me personally.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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Guest my3buicks

Terry, if it's important to you, you can park it right with the other cars of it's age, register it for judging. Then if you don't want it judged, when the judges come around just tell them to pass by. Or you could just register it in the driven class and park with the judged cars. Lot's of ways around it. As everyone keeps stressing though, the Nationals are all about the comradery not the judging ; )

(As I said above, the archival cars belong along side the point judged cars)

There are always many beautiful cars In the driven class, but this is my fear and nightmare of the driven class car that will be parked beside me as they often act as home base for the family.post-30591-143142939299_thumb.png

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You know, this parking thing is getting old! For crying out loud, folks, get a life.

In Ames[my first Nat] I was told upon arriving to park where ever I choose. My car was [is] Driven. Sat, moved it to Driven class area. In South Bend, again , park where you like, or words to that effect,. Sat morn, took it to the Driven class area, THEN back to the general lot after judging.

As far as some being undesirable, if it is a BUICK, I for one will have no complaints. I realize I am a "poor" man. Have always been. Will always be. But, to use a cliche, we all put on our undies the same way. We all get into our Buick the same way. Relax. Lighten up. HAVE FUN, as per Dale. Fun is GOOD.

I"ll tell you what, If you do not want to park next to me, you have my permission to not do so.

Ben

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I can only say that with my business, I don't get time each day to review the postings. That posting too was wrong, IMO.

I have searched a bit this morning, and can't find where any BCA official has told you YOUR car isn't WORTHY of parking along side some others.

It's kind of like as a kid my mother would say, "NOW DALE, TONIGHT AT THE PARTY MEET SOME NEW KIDS, JUST DON'T STICK WITH YOUR NORMAL CROWD".

I haven't found any Buick owner not worthy of parking next to, but then again, I do beat to a different drum.

I trust it all works out, and I'm sure it will,

Dale in Indy

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So Terry, to keep it simple, I think what you are saying is that you plan to enter your car in the Archival class but would like for it to be parked amongst the other judged cars of like + - years?

While I do agree that parking Archival in amongst the 400 pt judged cars would be good for camaraderie of like minded Buick owners, would make for some interesting comparisons between original and restored details and I personally would like that, I can appreciate that it would a logistics nightmare for the judges to get around to all the classes in order to judge the archival's. So therefore I defer to the judgement of the chief judge and the Board on the matter.

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You know, this parking thing is getting old! For crying out loud, folks, get a life.

In Ames[my first Nat] I was told upon arriving to park where ever I choose. My car was [is] Driven. Sat, moved it to Driven class area. In South Bend, again , park where you like, or words to that effect,. Sat morn, took it to the Driven class area, THEN back to the general lot after judging.

As far as some being undesirable, if it is a BUICK, I for one will have no complaints. I realize I am a "poor" man. Have always been. Will always be. But, to use a cliche, we all put on our undies the same way. We all get into our Buick the same way. Relax. Lighten up. HAVE FUN, as per Dale. Fun is GOOD.

I"ll tell you what, If you do not want to park next to me, you have my permission to not do so.

Ben

x2

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In about two weeks it will be the third anniversary of my stroke, heart attack, and double bypass. Although I am comfortable driving a couple of hundred miles a trip to Springfield would be a stretch. Parking sure ain't my issue.

I do remember a small event about ten years ago when parking locations were perfect: s0057.JPG

Bernie

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Let me explain the dilemma I am in and maybe somebody will be able to explain the solution that myself and others on here can relate to. We have three Buicks from the middle teens to early 1920's era. The oldest of these is 100 years old this summer. We want to bring the 1920 to the meet in June. This car is 95 years old and has less than 5,000 actual, documented miles on it since new. I am not going to register it in the modified class. Obviously doesn't belong in that class. I am not going to register it in the driven class. I'm not the least bit wild about spending three days driving the 240 miles in it to get to Springfield. Trust me when I say it would make the trip in fine shape - it's a Buick for cryin' out loud. I am not going to register it in the 400 point judged class. This automobile is HPOF Certified in the AACA. How would that make me look to those folks to have the car point judged? I think everyone would agree that that would not be the proper thing to do here. This leaves the Archival Class where it certainly belongs and the class that we plan to register it in. The Archival Class is not a point judged class so I honestly do not see all of the hubbub about my parking it with like era cars.

This is a volatile issue with some of you folks on here and for the life of me I cannot understand WHY some of you are so objectionable to someone wanting to have their car setting beside other cars of the same era. Our car is not going to be judged, so what the heck difference does it make to you guys? This seems really childish to me to take this kind of attitude. As the one guy said, we're supposed to be able to have fun at these meets and enjoy our friendships with other fellow Buick enthusiasts. This is certainly what we want to do - I will not speak for anybody else but us.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

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There are always many beautiful cars In the driven class, but this is my fear and nightmare of the driven class car that will be parked beside me as they often act as home base for the family.[ATTACH=CONFIG]291414[/ATTACH]

Keith, good news. You can stop worrying about this. Mercury's are not allowed on the show fields, no matter which way the parking is arranged. :D

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To those of you who are tired of seeing this poor horse beat to death, I'm with you, but I saw a need for moving the posts out of the official National Meet thread to one where answers could be found and a better understanding of how the parking will work. I am not stirring a pot in other words. With that said....

Terry regarding your comments above IE

The Archival Class is not a point judged class so I honestly do not see all of the hubbub about my parking it with like era cars. Our car is not going to be judged, so what the heck difference does it make to you guys?

Actually the Archival Class is a judged class and as I commented above it is my understanding that if the archival cars are spread all over the field ("parked with like era cars") then that assigned group of Archival judges would have to wander the field trying to find all the cars they are to judge. And please don't shoot the messenger here Terry, I am just trying to explain how I see it. And I am probably the worse one here to be explaining anything about parking and judging because I don't expect to ever have a car parked or judged. So if someone can help me out here....

Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)
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Archival is a 400 point class. It's just a different emphasis on the nature of the judging. Instead of judging the vehicle against a standard of how it was delivered from the factory, the emphasis is on how much of the car is still original. That's why in archival, condition is not considered. Original sheet metal, original paint, interior, engine, trim, all big plus'. Repair any of those and they start taking off points. My Electra lost a lot of points cause it did not have the original vinyl roof, regardless of the fact that it was the right material. Likewise it did not lose any points for the ripped front seats cause it was all still the original material. And while there is no deduction for consumables, like the other classes, there is a deduction if you modify. For example I know of one guy who loses points for having dual exhaust on a 67 Skylark, where dual exhaust apparently was not offered.

350 points to get an Archival. 385 for an Archival Elite. No preservation award but you can get an Archival, or Archival Elite as many times as you want.

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I, too, THOUGHT this whole deal was "over with". I know that we all "like what we like". Many like to position their vehicles near the vehicles of their friends, if possible, on the show field. I GET all of that, respectfully so. BUT it seems to me that Portland was the first BCA National Meet, judged, where the traditional parking strategy was not used . . . and will be the basis for 2015. That's what I understood Brian to say.

I also understand the decisions which some will need to make to determine if they will be bringing a vehicle to display (judged or non-judged) or whether to NOT bring it.

I had hoped, with the BCA Member Survey, that the "voice of the people" would prevail. Unfortunately, when I read that survey, the "parking questions", it was a 50-50 split as to what was desired. This might raise the question of how many of those respondents are active in this General Forum . . . even as small of a number it was?

Thanks, Mr. Earl, for moving the posts to where they might be more easily found and responded to!

Respectfully,

Willis Bell 20811

Edited by NTX5467 (see edit history)
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Guest my3buicks

If the archival was placed within the same class row as other cars of it's era it could/should also then be able to be judged as well in the 400 point class. There is no reason that a car can not be deemed archival and also class judged at the same meet.

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If the archival was placed within the same class row as other cars of it's era it could/should also then be able to be judged as well in the 400 point class. There is no reason that a car can not be deemed archival and also class judged at the same meet.

It's probably just me, but can you explain this a little better?

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Guest my3buicks

John, currently if you take an original car to Nationals you have to have it judged in either the Archival class or the 400 point class. You can not get it's archival award and a 400 point class award at the same meet. If a car is worthy of both being certified as an Archival car and let's say also worthy of a Sr, then it should get both. The Archival is not a competition but more a certification. It just doesn't make sense to me why a car can't be certified archival and compete for a class award at the same time.

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)
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I just CAN'T imagine the powers to be, NOT giving this lots and lots of thought, and doing what is best. I just can't see them not doing such.

There is NO WAY the final layout will please EVERYONE. Period!

I have been to tons of shows over the past 60 years, parked next to some real POS pieces, and guess what?, I STILL enjoyed the experience.

Dale in Indy

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Thanks for clarifying Keith.... Makes sense to me,will be interested to hear why not. So theoretically someone could drive an all original car to a meet and come away with 3 awards... Cool...

Dale, we're just doing some back seat driving here tha's all;)

Edited by MrEarl (see edit history)
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I just CAN'T imagine the powers to be, NOT giving this lots and lots of thought, and doing what is best. I just can't see them not doing such.

There is NO WAY the final layout will please EVERYONE. Period!

I have been to tons of shows over the past 60 years, parked next to some real POS pieces, and guess what?, I STILL enjoyed the experience.

Dale in Indy

LIKE!!!

Ben

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Guest my3buicks
Thanks for clarifying Keith.... Makes sense to me,will be interested to hear why not. So theoretically someone could drive an all original car to a meet and come away with 3 awards... Cool...

Dale, we're just doing some back seat driving here tha's all;)

Although I am not under the belief one should be rewarded for driving their Buick to a meet, the act of driving it is the reward. Someone handing me at an award because I drove my car would be meaningless to me.

Edited by my3buicks (see edit history)
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Ok guys put your rocks away. I will answer this question for everyone.......The Archival cars WILL be parked on the showfield with the other classes. No class will be forced to a separated parking spot because of the "class they are entered in". Judging might be a bit tougher but that can be worked out also and a plan is in place. This plan has my total support as well as John Steed's (our head judge). The goal is to present Buick from early to post war, and there wont be any profiling, all Buicks are equal. Hopefully this will help make Springfield a great meet. There could be some variance to this if needed, ie the Modified class if they want to. Will have to see how that shakes out. I know the Reatta division always wants to be separate but that wont be an issue due to all of the car being one of 4 years and they will still be with in what we are trying to do.

Chuck Kerls

Edited by Booreatta
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Although I am not under the belief one should be rewarded for driving their Buick to a meet, the act of driving it is the reward. Someone handing me at an award because I drove my car would be meaningless to me.

Well buddy, we will just have to agree to disagree on that point. If all it takes is a piece of paper and badge to get someone to take their car off the trailer and put it on the Buick Highway to a national then IMO it is worth all the effort of the awards folks to do it. Personally I think the driven award is one of the most important awards there is, for if nothing else to encourage and promote driving these wonderful Buicks instead of trailering them. Now if we can just get Terry to DRIVE that 1920 Coupe from Do Dah to Springfield and get an archival AND a driven award!!!! Woohoooooo ;)

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Guest my3buicks
Well buddy, we will just have to agree to disagree on that point. If all it takes is a piece of paper and badge to get someone to take their car off the trailer and put it on the Buick Highway to a national then IMO it is worth all the effort of the awards folks to do it. Personally I think the driven award is one of the most important awards there is, for if nothing else to encourage and promote driving these wonderful Buicks instead of trailering them. Now if we can just get Terry to DRIVE that 1920 Coupe from Do Dah to Springfield and get an archival AND a driven award!!!! Woohoooooo ;)

Do you really think a piece of paper or knick knack is really going to get someone that trailers their car to drive it?

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So theoretically someone could drive an all original car to a meet and come away with 3 awards... Cool...

Sounds like a great idea to me!

The big obstacle is getting more judges and getting judging administration done in time. There are options here. In Ames, I believe Driven cars were judged on Friday, allowing for those cars to be 400 pt judged on Saturday as well, but that's not necessarily necessary.

Also, the new standard for the Saturday awards ceremony has been set at about 2 hours. Multiple awards on 1 car would jeopardize that swift event.

Looking forward to Springfield!

Edited by bhclark (see edit history)
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Guest my3buicks

The number of cars in the Archival Class that would possibly want to enter the 400 point Judging at the same meet would more than likely be small.

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Thanks for clarifying Keith.... Makes sense to me,will be interested to hear why not. So theoretically someone could drive an all original car to a meet and come away with 3 awards... Cool...

That person would have to pay for three separate judging/award formats. Archival, 400pt, and driven. = $95 ....no thanks! Just point me to my parking spot.

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Let me explain the dilemma I am in and maybe somebody will be able to explain the solution that myself and others on here can relate to. We have three Buicks from the middle teens to early 1920's era. The oldest of these is 100 years old this summer. We want to bring the 1920 to the meet in June. This car is 95 years old and has less than 5,000 actual, documented miles on it since new. I am not going to register it in the modified class. Obviously doesn't belong in that class. I am not going to register it in the driven class. I'm not the least bit wild about spending three days driving the 240 miles in it to get to Springfield. Trust me when I say it would make the trip in fine shape - it's a Buick for cryin' out loud. I am not going to register it in the 400 point judged class. This automobile is HPOF Certified in the AACA. How would that make me look to those folks to have the car point judged? I think everyone would agree that that would not be the proper thing to do here. This leaves the Archival Class where it certainly belongs and the class that we plan to register it in. The Archival Class is not a point judged class so I honestly do not see all of the hubbub about my parking it with like era cars.

This is a volatile issue with some of you folks on here and for the life of me I cannot understand WHY some of you are so objectionable to someone wanting to have their car setting beside other cars of the same era. Our car is not going to be judged, so what the heck difference does it make to you guys? This seems really childish to me to take this kind of attitude. As the one guy said, we're supposed to be able to have fun at these meets and enjoy our friendships with other fellow Buick enthusiasts. This is certainly what we want to do - I will not speak for anybody else but us.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

Terry,

Register your car for display, display cars park with the 400 point cars so you will be with like years. Easy peasy.

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