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1936-1937 Cord Coupe built from Phaeton?


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I recently received a bunch of Cord parts. In with the parts were what looks like 2 side rails for a convertible top that the previous owner got with a Cord he purchased at one time. He told me they aren't for a Cord. I figured I would put them on here and see what they may go to. When I went to photograph them yesterday I started noticing the similarities and size to my Cord window opening and windshield so I tried them on the car. They fit perfectly and even have all necessary holes that line up with the mounting holes on my 36 810 phaeton.

The frames look to be factory made. They are really old judging by their condition as well.

I googled images of Cord Coupes but all seem to have been built from Sportsman's not phaetons. These frames seem to fit only the phaeton based on the way they mount utilizing the front hold down bracket inside where the quarter windows pivot. Does anyone know of any Coupes built from Phaetons or know of any images of long gone Cords that were built this way. I would imagine even if they are factory looking they have to have been Coach built.

If they aren't Cord, any ideas on what car they might have been used on? It would have to have the same type windshield as the Cord and the same dimensions.

Here are some photos of my car with the frame on one side and how it mounts.

They look to have been used with a fabric top by the snaps on the outside but they look like they were somewhat visible as they were chrome plated on the outside, not the inside.

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Looks to me like someone, either factory or later, made a "blind rear quarter" top for a phaeton, thus not utilizing the rear swing up side windows. It would be a neat look from the outside, but you'd surely need some great side rear view mirrors!

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That is an interesting thread. Really a shame they locked it. I could have added my car. It's got a flathead cadillac (surplus tank motor) with dual carbs edmunds heads and they chromed lots of stuff under the hood. To boot it hasn't really been touched since the 1960's, possibly even the late 1950's. It fits all the latest crazes, barn find, survivor hot rod. LOL Too bad there is a darn good chance it's going back to front wheel drive with a driver restoration rather than preserving it as is.

That Cord is a similar idea. It almost has a sportsman look to it. I would of thought longer blind quarters on the top.

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Could you post some pictures of the engine compartment? Do a detailed cost analysis before putting it back. A period hot rod like that is a cool thing. I'm an originality nut but sometimes an original hot rod is cool too. I would never like to see a car cut up now but that was done 60 plus years ago.

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I'll shoot some pictures today. It's dusty grimey oxidized (patine'd) under the hood. But you could see what they were going for. They even covered the firewall with smooth chrome sheets. Chrome Generator, fan, pulley,water necks. They were trying to make it a show piece I think.

I did give some thought to just getting it going like it is. The engine has a couple stuck valves (so it needs a Valve job atleast) and the brakes will need to be all rebuilt. I'm not real crazy about a few of the things they did when they converted it. Namely in the steering department. They actually cut a notch in the radiator and sent the steering shaft through it. Fortunately it wasn't an original Cord radiator so nothing lost. This would need to be adreesed before I drove it as one of the steering brackets is actually welded to the manifold.

I was trying to determine how much the car was actually driven with the conversion if it ever was, but I did notice the carpet they installed with the relocated accelerator pedal is worn right through to the floor board so it must have been driven some.

They did put dual exhaust on it with an H pipe so they were trying to do things right and they made the side pipes functional. I guess the good part was they didn't try to modernize the looks of it like others I have seen. Infact the only liberties taken with the body were they nosed the cord emblem off the tranny cover and filled the cowl vents, which was done by closing them and filling them is so Hopefully they are salvageable. I do have a set of mint cowl vent doors. (I hope they didn't destort anything when they filled them as I think they may have been leaded in.)

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If I could get it on the road for 3,000 or so I would do it. But if I spend anymore it feels like lost money as I will have to tear everything I do out when I convert it back. I know the motor needs to come apart for a valve job at least. One of the water necks leaks I'm assuming by the electrical tape wrapped around it, Tires are shot. The brakes will have to be gone through, The exhaust rehabbed. Just all the usual stuff with anything stuffed in a garage untouched for 40 years.

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I have actually acquired alot of parts to put it back to original configuration including a really nice pair front axles/joints, Rebuilt correct Carb.,Rebuilt Starter, NOS stainless sleeved master cylinder, A couple of sets of original brakes, a reproduction set of radiator tanks and an original strap to make a new radiator,NOS E-brake cables, A nice set of bohnalite heads, Correct hood latch and prop, original steering wheel, control arms. Front spring, Shocks, all the steering arms but I still need a good box, Pretty much the entire set of guts for a transmission all in good shape. Restored complete throttle linkage assembly and brackets, I have pretty much a truck load of mechanical tid bits from a Cord restorer that was closing up shop. I'm still missing an engine and a tranny case. It has the original rear springs still so i just need the solid rear axle.

I'm still thinking of buying a mechanically mostly complete parts car (stalled sedan project). They seem to turn up in the low 20's. The guy I got my parts from said that would be the best thing to do. He said the car is just in too good of shape to not put it back original. I don't mind the conversion, I just don't know if the quality of the build is good enough for me to want to put the effort into restoring it as a frankenstein. Much of the paint all be it thin in spots could be buffed out as you see and be fairly presentable The right rear fender needs to be painted and the hood probably does as well because of a couple of storage dents. Especially for a Survivor, dare I say it Hot Rod. The interior can be used as is and is in pretty good shape.

Maybe I should take a poll. All in favor of leaving it alone and getting it on the road let me know. Those that think I should not waste my resources and just wait until I can convert it back, let me know as well.

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Well, here goes an opinion!

Right now, it's just an expensive paperweight. Even with the wrong drive train, you paid good money for it. It's both more fun and worth more money running and driving, in either configuration.

Get it running and driving LIKE IT IS while you keep acquiring all the parts you need to convert to original. That might cost a few thousand, but you can drive it and have fun with it NOW. If you figure another year or two to get all the parts together, and anywhere from a year to five or more to get it back to original (yes, I know we all say we can do it in 6 months, but really? I mean, really will that happen?). I needed to put in some, not all, new wiring, and rebuild some of the shifting mechanisms for my Cord phaeton, so I could take it to ACD meet, and THAT took about 4 months!

It's still a great and interesting car with the conversion. Get it running!

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My two suggestions are:

1. Go to Auburn IN this Labour Day weekend, it will help you to decide what to do with your Cord; and

2. Of the parts you need, a good steering box will be the hardest to find. Likely not the most valueable part you need but one that does require some searching. I would start now.

I have a few trans cases that you can have...if you want to drive to Toronto for them.

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I figured the conversion back to original would take minimum of a year or 2 depending on what state the parts car is in. I have seen a few for sale that had a rebuilt engine and transmission as well as other sub assemblies. That would obviously speed things up. I'm in no rush to get it on the road at this point. We just bought a larger house, that came with a larger shop which is pretty much just a shell. I still need to finish that off and move my parts business here from my old shop, which I still own. There is a fair amount to do around here at this point as well not including the shop. I do have other turnkey cars. The only good thing about it not being near running is every system needs to be redone, so it's not going backwards just sitting in the corner of my shop. I have atleast one other paperweight that is closer to being road ready.

I do have a steering box I believe in my pile of parts but I know it needs to be rebuilt and might even be disassembled so I'm sure there are a few trinkets atleast missing from it.

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Well, of course my comments were based on you having time in the first place to work on it! I have comprehensive understanding of this project waiting for that project because the other project is running behind since the original project isn't finished......

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Well, of course my comments were based on you having time in the first place to work on it! I have comprehensive understanding of this project waiting for that project because the other project is running behind since the original project isn't finished......

Exactly my thoughts! This after I just spent an hour plowing the driveway. Now I have to go make some money so I can pay the guy who plows my shop his 75.00 for plowing that out today.

Well atleast I have the car to start with and a place to keep/ work on it.

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I think it depends on what you want to do with the car once you've got it running, in either configuration. I would probably get it running and reliable "as is," and drive it everywhere (probably without painting, unless those areas would continue to deteriorate if not). Parts are a LOT more available and less expensive for the Cadillac. Since you've collected all of the parts to put it back to original, you basically have a complete phaeton, worth no less than a disassembled unaltered phaeton. If/When the time comes that you want a show car, you merely have to find the time to do it.

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I think it depends on what you want to do with the car once you've got it running, in either configuration. I would probably get it running and reliable "as is," and drive it everywhere (probably without painting, unless those areas would continue to deteriorate if not). Parts are a LOT more available and less expensive for the Cadillac. Since you've collected all of the parts to put it back to original, you basically have a complete phaeton, worth no less than a disassembled unaltered phaeton. If/When the time comes that you want a show car, you merely have to find the time to do it.

I was originally thinking that, my only concern was dumping a pile of money into something then tearing it all out and scrapping it to put it back the right way. I guess it just depends on time and finances as well as if I end up buying a complete parts car with rebuilt engine and tranny. Then it would probably be wise to just put it back stock at that time, even to just a running and driving version (not fully restored to get the bugs sorted out)

If I don't come up with the motor and tranny before then and I get the itch, I guess i'll just tear the heads off the caddy and see what it looks like inside. I do have a completely rebuilt 39 Cadillac Engine in the corner I have had for 15-20 years. Unfortunately the heads I don't think will fit it but it would be a way to put a good running motor in it as a pretty much bolt in swap.

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  • 6 months later...

In answer to your question from back in January; Does anyone know of a coupe being built from a phaeton rather than a cabriolet, (aka Sportsman)?   Yes,  Robbie McEwan's coupe was created using a rear clip from a phaeton.  I believe Doug Johnson artfully reconfigured it so that a cabriolet trunk lid could be incorporated, just as the "factory" coupes had.

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My guess would be a cut down 4 door. Top boot area looks pretty crude for the type of car they built it from.  I could be wrong but the pre auction estimate is pushing 100,000. (it's listed in Hemmings)  Seems a bit high unless it has some good lineage.  It would be a Dandy of a parts car for my phaeton.

Edited by auburnseeker (see edit history)
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Here is the link:   http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=AF15&ID=r0782

 

Estimate: $ 80,000 - $100,000

  • Original 288.6-cid, 170 L-head V-8 engine
  • Four-speed transmission
  • Supercharger has been added
  • Custom roadster body
  • Originally a Westchester sedan
  • Many original components retained
  • In ACD Newsletter articles in 1972 and 1977
  • Great color combination


There were two front-wheel drive American cars announced in 1929, and they were produced by two of the most dynamic and colorful entrepreneurs in the American automobile industry at that time. Errett Lobban Cord and Archie Andrews (Ruxton) were the two individuals and Cord was able to introduce his version first.

The Cord automobile was part of the Auburn, Cord and Duesenberg empire and considered as one of the finest and most stylish automobiles to ever grace the roads of America. The Cord L-29 was introduced in 1929, and the motivation for the car was to fill the price gap in the Cord Corporation between the popularly priced Auburn and the upper echelon of the grand Model J Duesenberg that had also recently been introduced.

The first successful car to have front-wheel drive, Cords had lower bodies than traditional rear-wheel drive cars, which made them exceptionally stylish. The Great Depression of the 1930s caused the mighty Cord L-29 to cease production in 1932. However, in 1935, a new front-wheel drive Cord appeared. With an Art Deco body, it was unlike anything the American public had ever seen. Styled by Gordon Buehrig, it featured pop-up headlights, a coffin-shaped grille, and immediately became one of the most stylistically distinct cars in American automotive history. “Rolling Sculpture” has been used to describe this era of automobiles, and rightfully so.

The Cord being offered is reported by the owner as one of the last produced before the company's dissolution in 1937, plus it is one of the actual 1937 Cord Model 812s built, not one of the rebadged 1936 Cords. When the vehicle rolled out of the factory it was a Westchester sedan with a non-supercharged engine. The vehicle carries Serial Number 2031 A and Engine Number FB 2833. The original Westchester body carried body number C 90 957.

The known ownership of this Cord can only be tracked back to 1970 when it was owned by Mr. Roy Fuiman. By this time, the car is believed to have already had the extensive modifications completed, or they were possibly executed during the ownership of Mr. Fuiman. These modifications include a modified steel roadster body in place of the Westchester sedan, and a Cord convertible windshield was installed on the body, plus a supercharger added to the powerplant. The car is stated to still retain its original hood, front fenders, rear fenders and original (now supercharger-modified) engine and front-wheel drive unit.

In 1971 the vehicle was offered for sale at the Hershey Swap Meet by Thomas Trexall, in 1972 the Cord was registered by Tom Ochiuzzo. Later in 1972, this custom-bodied Cord was registered to Frank Martucci of New York. The vehicle was mentioned in two articles published in the ACD Newsletter; one article is found in issue number 8 of 1972 on pages 13 & 14. The second article ran in issue number 2 of 1977 on page 12.

Finished in Cigarette Cream with a rich tan-tone interior, this unique Cord has many of the original characteristics and components of this longtime favorite.
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Thanks for posting that.  I started reading it but got bored after reading about the history of the company,  (if you are looking at a 100,000 Cord I'm pretty sure you atleast know some vague history about the company) not seeing the small blurb at the end about this actual car.   

That poses another thing that has always nagged me.  Why do sellers like this one as well as quite a few on ebay post the whole history of the company and say so little about the actual car being sold?  I could see a small blurb if it was a 1921 Whatchamobile that very few people have ever heard of but on car marques  that are quite well known and their history easily searched I think you tend to discourage potential buyers. It almost seems to me like the seller knows little about the actual car they are selling but alot about what it should be.  If somebody found your car for sale it's probably something they are looking for and have atleast some knowledge of that particular marque.  

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Of course you do know that the same type of person that needs the 3/4 page history lesson also thinks that their neighbor has a car just like the one in your avitar in their garage. Well I guess you can't blame them,  from a few hundred feet away, on a foggy day, at 60 MPH, when you only catch a glimpse riding down a back road, there is a slight resemblance until you actually turn the car around to go back for a second look.

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You have hit on something that always bugs me.  It is really funny when you are talking about a 1,000,000 plus car and they spend 3/4 of the ad talking about the history of the company then give you the history of the car back to 2005.

Ya, those ads are like some people, talk a lot and say nothing. I always ship to the bottom few sentences. 

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You have hit on something that always bugs me.  It is really funny when you are talking about a 1,000,000 plus car and they spend 3/4 of the ad talking about the history of the company then give you the history of the car back to 2005.

 

Because a copy/paste from Wikipedia is easy. Actually writing something intelligent and useful about a car is hard.

 

I take a lot of pride in my descriptions of the cars I offer, and while I will sometimes use a few bits of history in the opening sentences, you'll find that a majority of my ad copy is about the car itself, often in exhaustive detail. The only question I want someone to ask about one of my cars is, "How soon can I have it?" Sadly, I've learned that many people don't bother reading any of it, because they call with questions whose answers are right there in the ad.

 

Maybe I'm working too hard and should just start phoning it in, too...

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I think you are helping yourself.  I have only bought 2 cars sight unseen and I did it because of the amount of work that went into to ads.  If the seller takes the time to photograph and describe every part of the car then you know you are dealing with:

 

1.  Somebody that is serious.

2.  Somebody that knows what they are doing

 

 

I could see the most desirable car in the world at at bargain price but if there are 2 sentences and a few bad cell phone pictures I assume that the seller is:

 

1.  Somebody that is Not serious.

2.  Somebody that is a boob.

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Because a copy/paste from Wikipedia is easy. Actually writing something intelligent and useful about a car is hard.

 

I take a lot of pride in my descriptions of the cars I offer, and while I will sometimes use a few bits of history in the opening sentences, you'll find that a majority of my ad copy is about the car itself, often in exhaustive detail. The only question I want someone to ask about one of my cars is, "How soon can I have it?" Sadly, I've learned that many people don't bother reading any of it, because they call with questions whose answers are right there in the ad.

 

Maybe I'm working too hard and should just start phoning it in, too...

I do like your ads.  I've never bought one of your cars but as you mentioned never had to ask any questions either.   Everything was right their I needed to know.  I've seen some very tempting ones you posted that made me feel like I should buy them but was always low on cash when they came along.  Keep up the good work.

  You wouldn't believe the number of ads I have responded to for basic information that should have been in the description.  (most recently a 61 olds starfire convertible that looks very nice from the 1 or 2 photos.  No price, No interior shots, No under hood shots, No underneath shots and not a mention of the interior condition or mechanics.  After inquiring they are asking $42,394.00 for it and it has 4 dry rotted tires according to the seller. Unfortunately over my budget.   

Like you the only call I want to get is when can I come look at it.  The rest always seem to be a waste of time. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
 

Looks to me like someone, either factory or later, made a "blind rear quarter" top for a phaeton, thus not utilizing the rear swing up side windows. It would be a neat look from the outside, but you'd surely need some great side rear view mirrors!

Cord made at least one Coupe based on the Sportsman:  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?48580-Orphan-of-the-Day-02-10-1937-Cord-Coupe

 

It was made for the owner of Champion Spark Plug, and had other one-of-a-kind features, including exposed headlights, and 1934 LaSalle hood vents.

 

Craig

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