1931 Herringbone Transmission Oil ?

I have a 1931 Reo Royale with Herringbone gears in the transmission . The owners manual says use a LEAD based oil . Fellow Reo owners say use a heavy oil to slow down the gears . I have been told use 600 weight oil . Can anyone recommend a certain brand or weight or should I just use any heavy 600 oil .

Never heard of lead based oil. The only metal I know of that was used in oil, was zinc to protect heavily loaded parts that were under high pressure. I hope one of our engineer members comes in with some info on herringbone gears, lead oil, and what they use these days when lead oil is not available.

Thanks for responding Rusty . According to the owners manual it says . The transmission operates best with a lead base lubricant . Here is part of the list they recommend . Amalie lead base , Flyod's lead base lubricant , Marquette lead scap grease , Penola leaded base lubricant , Pennzoil lead base lubricant , Socony gear lubricant no 3 leaded , United lead base gearole Waverly lead base . Thanks

Current equivalent lubes are SAE 250 WT. Shell Dentax or Texaco Thuban are the ones I have used.

They used to make a thick grease out of sodium soap so I guess lead is not so crazy.

I called Shell Canada they have not made Shell Dentax for 10 years . I called a farm tractor supply and Tormont a heavy equipment supplier . They do not carry that type of heavy oil.

Do you know if the gears are really herringbone? True herringbone gears are pretty elaborate for an automotive application. I ask out of ignorance.

If they are typical transmission gears, you are probably worrying too much. It is a GM car and probably has a transmission similar to Caddilac or Buick. If so a heavy oil will probably work just fine.

I know about greases with soap in them. The grease (pin dope) used on steam locomotive connecting rods has lots of soap in it. When I got my hands dirty, I'd grab a chunk of grease (we had plenty of hot water) and wash my hands with it. It cleaned your hands, but , boy was it rough on them.

The car is not a GM car it is an orphan car made by the REO Company . The owners manual says Herringbone gears and that is what I was using as a reference . If you could please give some name or grade of transmission oil I would appreciate it . What do GM cars use in modern oil grades as I can not find Mark Shaw recommendation .

REO was a car company started by Ransom Eli Olds (note the initials) after he sold Oldsmobile to General Motors. They made REO cars and trucks until about 1937 when they stopped making cars to concentrate on trucks.

The REO Royale was their top of the line, comparable to Cadillac in size and quality and renowned for their reliability and long life. A working life of 500,000 miles was not out of the question. They really were built like REO trucks. Herringbone gears in the transmission would not surprise me. Anything that would make a car better or longer wearing, they would do, regardless of expense.

That is one reason they stopped making cars. They could not make cars to their standards, price them above their cost, and sell enough to make a profit. They did a lot better with trucks.

Royale eight cylinder engine comparable to Packard or Cadillac. 358 cu in straight eight, 125HP. Chrome nickel alloy block, 7 times harder than cast iron. Nine main bearing crankshaft with full pressure lubrication. Two barrel carburetor. Dual point ignition. Self shifting transmission of REO's own design.

OK, I understand - but I should have known.

As far as the oil goes I'd think any 250 wt for transmissions would be OK. As far as 600w goes, I know that is available through a good oil supplier.

I'd guess that it is a synchromesh transmission.

Many years ago I had a 1931 Buick with a synchro transmission. I used 90 wt in it and it worked fine. I'm sure others will comment.

I'd love to se a photo of the gears in the transmission to see what they called "herringbone" gears.

Self shifter trans debuted in spring 1933 so would not be on a 31 model.

Rusty a good technical description of a Royale . There is enough material in the Royale to make another car . Don I will look for the 250 Wt some more the 600 Wt is available from Mac's Ford . Thanks to everyone for your help .

600W right there >>> https://www.modeltford.com/item/600W.aspx

Here is what I use for transmission oil on my old vehicles. Lubriplate SPO-299.

http://www.lubriplate.com/Online-Store/2-lb-bottles/SPO-299-one-quart-bottle.aspx

Hey Guys,

Great discussion! I believe that I have 140wt in my transmission now. I've been considering 600wt. How will the heavier wt oil effect shifting? Will there be a noticeable reduction in sound coming from the transmission?

Those are NOT herringbone gears. They are hellical gears - just like any other modernish transmission and shouldnt require any really special oil other than one that is OK with the bronze of the synchronizers.

Look here for a photo of herringbone gears:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herringbone_gear

Ricosan is not the OP and that may not be a REO transmission.

Very interesting. Learn something new every day.

Those are NOT herringbone gears. They are hellical gears - just like any other modernish transmission and shouldnt require any really special oil other than one that is OK with the bronze of the synchronizers.

Look here for a photo of herringbone gears:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herringbone_gear

Here is the 1931 REO transmission....

I use the 600w oil. First it stays in the transmission, seals were not great back then. Second 600w are used for modern worm gear applications with lots of yellow metals (bronze and brass) the new style (250w) may not be rated for yellow metals, you will have to check. Third; this one is what I have been told, I have had some great friends that worked on these cars when they were new, anyway they tell me the 600w is designed to slow the gears faster then the light oils making them easier to shift, there is a noticeable difference in my 1928 Graham-Paige.

Keiser31,

Now, those are herringbone gears.

However, when it comes to lubrication, they are really just back to back hellical gears arent they?

That is one heck of a transmission.

I think the trans in Ricosan's post is from his 1932 Marmon. This was a large, high grade car of the time comparable in size and price to the Royale. But look at the difference in transmissions.

John thanks for posting my Royale transmission pictures .

Keiser31,

Now, those are herringbone gears.

However, when it comes to lubrication, they are really just back to back hellical gears arent they?

That is one heck of a transmission.

Here are actual herringbone gears where the gear has teeth in two directions on one gear. I would agree that the REO gears are back to back helical gears.

Great photo of a true herringbone gearset. Looks like it might have been for an early steam turbine marine application.

Herringbone gears are still used in steamship gear reduction units.

Yes, I understand that. But they are usually double or triple reduction sets, it was the very large diameter of the larger gear that made me think it was from an earlier time. Do you know the source of the photo or other details?

I pinched the photo from Wikipedia "herringbone gears"

I live in Canada and purchased this from an Antique Ford Dealer some M - 533 . It is very thick and had to heat it up in hot water to make it pour out properly . I also found this on the internet about 600W .

Everything I've found indicates 600W was mineral based gear oil, early Model T data talks about 600W Steam Cylinder Oil, which research showed having a viscosity of ISO600/ 680. ISO 320 is equivalent to SAE 85W140, ISO 460 is equivalent to SAE 140, ISO 680-1000 is equivalent to SAE 250.

I think the trans in Ricosan's post is from his 1932 Marmon. This was a large, high grade car of the time comparable in size and price to the Royale. But look at the difference in transmissions.

Would the Marmon transmission benefit from the use of 600W gear lube, even though it doesn't have herringbone gears? Smoother shifting, quieter, less vibration? Or would it somehow be a detriment?

The 600W gear oil used today generally for worm gear box applications are some of the few still rated for use with yellow metals, brass, bronze, and copper all common transmission components in the 1920's and 1930's. My Graham's all shift more smoothly with the 600W and it stays in the transmission.

600 W is available from Graingers. You'll never mistake the smell but it does a great job in older transmissions.