1951 Plymouth 4 door sedan

The guy I'm purchasing it from said the title states it is a CRB ??

That would mean "Cranbrook". The number will tell us for certain since titles are sometimes different.

Good looking car with a lot of potential. I've been into '51-'52 Plymouths for decades and have had several of them. Right now I have a '52 Cambridge 4-door and a '51 Concord Business coupe. Judging by the photos of your interior, yours is a Cranbrook. You might take 'XXXX' steel wool to the bumpers and see how they shine under the silver paint. FWIW, '51 and '52 front bumpers are not the same, although they both interchange. The '51 has an extra brace behind it and a center bolt that the license plate bracket attaches to. In '52, they got rid of the center bolt and brace and used slots in the bumper to mount the license plate. Youi may want to check out the forums at www.p15-d24.com . That site is dedicated to postwar Mopar flathead-powered cars and trucks. Enjoy good going in your new Plymouth!

I have both a Cranbrook and Cambridge in the yard and there isn't much difference in them, mostly minor changes in the trim. If that steering wheel is the original (I still question that selector in the column) it has the more deluxe trim with the horn ring so Cranbrook makes sense. Mechanically the cars will be identical.

I have both a Cranbrook and Cambridge in the yard and there isn't much difference in them, mostly minor changes in the trim. If that steering wheel is the original (I still question that selector in the column) it has the more deluxe trim with the horn ring so Cranbrook makes sense. Mechanically the cars will be identical.

The steering wheel and horn ring look original. The chrome lever on the driver's side of the steering column is the factory-installed turn signal. The chrome ring around the column is the switch assembly. Turn signals were optional and many cars didn't get them or had aftermarket units installed.

Thank you very much Harold ! I haven't slept the last several nights because I am so keyed up about going out to finalize everything. ( Tomorrow morning ! ) Should have it home this week then I can post up picks too. The link you provided me for that website is awesome, I just joined there. Same user name there as here so look me up over there. I'll leave the '50 bumpers on there until I can find the correct '51's. Any chance I could impose on you to post some pics of those bumpers on your 51 for me?

Harold & whtbaron, I believe, if memory serves, that my '50 De Soto 4 door sedan had the same signal light lever on it's column as well? It's been well over 20 years since I let me ex-wife talk me into selling it. Should have kept the car I miss it. Another member on here says that he might have bumpers and wheels/hubcaps for me as well so as soon as the weather breaks I may have those parts as well.

Have any of you ever changed your rims over to non-tubeless so you can run regular tires on your vehicles? I was thinking I might like to do that, just wondering on some of your guys opinions about that. Picked up a vintage fog light set for it today from Andy Bernbaums auto parts

That would mean "Cranbrook". The number will tell us for certain since titles are sometimes different.

Thanks again Keiser ! Your keeping me on the right path

Thank you very much Harold ! I haven't slept the last several nights because I am so keyed up about going out to finalize everything. ( Tomorrow morning ! ) Should have it home this week then I can post up picks too. The link you provided me for that website is awesome, I just joined there. Same user name there as here so look me up over there. I'll leave the '50 bumpers on there until I can find the correct '51's. Any chance I could impose on you to post some pics of those bumpers on your 51 for me?

Harold & whtbaron, I believe, if memory serves, that my '50 De Soto 4 door sedan had the same signal light lever on it's column as well? It's been well over 20 years since I let me ex-wife talk me into selling it. Should have kept the car I miss it. Another member on here says that he might have bumpers and wheels/hubcaps for me as well so as soon as the weather breaks I may have those parts as well.

Have any of you ever changed your rims over to non-tubeless so you can run regular tires on your vehicles? I was thinking I might like to do that, just wondering on some of your guys opinions about that. Picked up a vintage fog light set for it today from Andy Bernbaums auto parts

I don't have good photos to post but if you use Google Images and search for 1951 Plymouth you'll get lots of pictures. Your front bumper looks original but the bumper guards are from some other car. One thing to keep in mind if you want to use tubeless tires on original rims: the valve stem hole in the rim is oval. Some people have used larger diameter round valves wedged into the hole, but I think the better approach is to get oval bolt-in valves from a truck tire place. I don't know whether oval rubber valves are still available. By the way, the driver's side of the car has left-hand thread lug bolts (unless somebody swapped-in right-hand drums)

Harold, I thought if you used tubeless tires on rims that were made for tubes that you run the risk of the tires spinning on the rims? I've never done this before but thought I read of it, maybe on here. When I put new rubber on my De Soto I replaced the tubes and it was kinda a pain. I knew about the reverse lug nuts, thank you. Kinda funny, my friend helped me with my De Soto and he didn't know. I let him struggle with it for a bit then I went over and turned them right off! He yells out, "How'd you do that"?! I laughed and told him it helps if you turn 'em in the right direction!! Bought him some beer and dinner when we were done though!

The steering wheel and horn ring look original. The chrome lever on the driver's side of the steering column is the factory-installed turn signal. The chrome ring around the column is the switch assembly. Turn signals were optional and many cars didn't get them or had aftermarket units installed.

Cool.. I live in farm country so most of the older cars are "plain janes" without many options. I've never seen one with the built in signals.

I think tubeless tires were standard equipment, at least on the '52 Plymouth. My father had tubeless tires on his original '52 and he didn't have any tire-movement issues.

I think tubeless tires were standard equipment, at least on the '52 Plymouth. My father had tubeless tires on his original '52 and he didn't have any tire-movement issues.

Really? Did the change occur between the '50 - '51 model year? My De Soto was a '50 that was why I asked

1955 was the first year for tubeless tires to be standard equipment for Plymouth and most other makes.

So can I get away with putting the tubless tires on the stock rims then? It's not like I'll be breaking speed records with the thing ?

I, for one, would not use tubeless tires on a tube-type rim. They are NOT airtight as a tubeless rim. Just my opinion and I am sure you will get replies from others to the contrary.

It was mentioned that the lug threads differ, left side of car left hand thread, right side right thread. Your car should have bolts to secure the wheels not lug-nuts. If you are lucky someone drilled holes in those wheels to accommodate a locating stud instead of removing them.

Being bolts are used to secure the wheels there is a stud on the brake drum that helps to hold the wheel and locate it until the bolts can be started. Most wheels, (unless Chrysler products into the 60's) will not have a hole for the locating stud so people remove them.

Wheels shouldn't be too hard to find, I had the spare tire from my parents 62 Plymouth on a 47 Plymouth. Klinger's in Pine Grove is worth the drive just to walk around and look at the stuff. I have a 52 4 door sitting outside that may have something you need, I'm about another hour for you from Klinger's, but if you get desperate let me know what you need and maybe can help you out.

Jay

I, for one, would not use tubeless tires on a tube-type rim. They are NOT airtight as a tubeless rim. Just my opinion and I am sure you will get replies from others to the contrary.

I know both of my 52's were run with tubes back in the day, but those were bias ply tires. There are tubes designed for radials as well. I have never heard of tires spinning on the old rims ( I doubt you have either the horsepower or braking power to make that happen). I think the bigger issue is going to be how the rims were welded and the shape of the sealing bead at the rim as to whether or not they will seal properly.

I know both of my 52's were run with tubes back in the day, but those were bias ply tires. There are tubes designed for radials as well. I have never heard of tires spinning on the old rims ( I doubt you have either the horsepower or braking power to make that happen). I think the bigger issue is going to be how the rims were welded and the shape of the sealing bead at the rim as to whether or not they will seal properly.

Pretty much what I was thinking. If you want to run tubeless and/or radials, just go get any Dodge Plymouth, Chrysler (-Imperial) or DeSoto rims made after 1954 and they will bolt right up.

I have run tubeless radials on many Chryslers from the 50's and never had any problems with air or cracks.

On a cross country trip my 54 New Yorker was quite comfortable on the freeway at near triple digit speeds.

I had a 1953 Imperial that the tires needed 40 PSI in the radial tires. With less pressure it felt like a half sunk boat when turning.

beautiful car

beautiful car

UM, thank you, but no those pictures are very good at hiding major problems !! Went to see it in person today. It does look like the pictures I posted. HOWEVER. Did you know that 1951 Plymouth's were built with floors made from Fiber board? ( This after I asked the guy who is selling it for his buddy, How is the floor and frame--------- response?------- Oh it's solid! )The wiring was a rats nest and that is being nice. This car had 6, yes 6 horns installed including the origianls. Also the engine that ran quiet and smooth....... was so quiet that it never ran! It tried. The current owner told me just a shot of starting fluid and it will turn right over. I asked him why does it need that and his response was, "It's been sitting awhile" After an hour and a half of spraying starting fluid you could hear the motor turning slower and slower. Then they got one of the previous owners over to try it. He tried using another car to jump it - nothing doing . Then they called a guy named Tony because he has the magic touch with the car. I asked him if Tony came with the car since I obviously will never be able to start it without him. By now I'm ticked off, this is supposed to be a running driving car not this mess that I saw. Tony actually got it to Backfire - twice, then he put a jump pack on it with the car they were jumping it from because "they needed it to turn faster" With the owner smoking a cigarette and spraying that fluid they were able to set the top of the engine on fire. They put the fire out by throwing snow all over it and some of it went down the carb. They threw the burning air cleaner out into the parking lot. You can smell varnish really bad so I'm guessing the car needs a fuel pump and the gas tank cleaned and sealed along with new lines and or clean the old lines out. Also the carb was leaking like crazy.The owner ( keep in mind I have at this point spoken to 3 people who have owned this car and have passed it from one guy to the next and they are all telling me how much fun this car is.) asks me if we should go in and do the paper work on this car right now before the notory leaves!! I told him I wasn't interested. When you drive almost 4 hours to pick up a car and then you get there and find out it has been so badly represented, you begin to wonder what else the car needs and what they are not telling you. I mean, SOLID floor?? Yeah solid wood ! Sorry for the rant, the search goes on. Thank you guys for all of your help. I'm really disappointed.

Been there 10 hour round trip to see a 36,000 mile 49 Chrysler Windsor, 136,000 with rusted body mounts.

Take your time looking something will come up, there are still many reasonably priced cars especially post-war Chrysler products because they were well built, just don't get a rusty one.

My first question is how are the body mounts.

Jay

They were reluctant to push it into the garage for me to have a look underneath. What I could see of the frame looked good but they had plowed the parking lots snow all around the car so it was difficult to see under.

Bummer that it turned out to be a junker. I had a similar situation years ago with a '52 Belvedere. My friend and I drove 7 hours to look at it, brought a tow bar, fresh battery, and extra tires. I wanted to hear it run. The seller said 'gee, the battery is dead'. I said 'no prob, I've got one'. Then, the seller said 'I can't find the keys...I'll mail them to you afterwards'. I then said I'll hot-wire the car so I can hear it run. The seller said flat-out 'no'. At that point I said goodbye and drove 7 hours home.

Just for curiosity, how much were they asking for this car?

Bummer that it turned out to be a junker. I had a similar situation years ago with a '52 Belvedere. My friend and I drove 7 hours to look at it, brought a tow bar, fresh battery, and extra tires. I wanted to hear it run. The seller said 'gee, the battery is dead'. I said 'no prob, I've got one'. Then, the seller said 'I can't find the keys...I'll mail them to you afterwards'. I then said I'll hot-wire the car so I can hear it run. The seller said flat-out 'no'. At that point I said goodbye and drove 7 hours home.

Just for curiosity, how much were they asking for this car?

They started out at $2000. Over the phone discussing the car they lowered it to $1800. When I couldn't make it out Friday as planned due to snow, they lowered it to $1400. I still told him, no way am I traveling on these roads to look at it. I'll be there Monday (today). Over the weekend multiple texts and calls about me coming, then Sunday he texts me, I better grab it on Monday becuae there is a guy interested in it coming on Tuesday and he doesn't know if he can hold it for me. I realize the car is 63 years old, I'm not looking for perfection, but the floor was gone a long time ago and the wood is secured to the sills with sheet metal screws! Plus the fire today and the way they cared for the car in general. Tossing the air cleaner into the parking lot? I was just looking for a driver, nothing perfect but a decent starting point. But this thing needs a body off frame resto and I don't even know if the motor is good. He also told me, we couldn't move it due to no brakes but in an empty parking lot with nothing around we can't move it to see if the tranny is any good/clutch slipping?

I would suggest moving on to a better prospect. People on this site can probably help you to find something of a better value and in better condition for you.

Keiser, yes I have moved on. I was looking for something, not mint, but at least roadworthy. This car needs a master cylinder but...........who knows whats wrong with the motor , and it was on fire while I was there. Plus, no floor ! If I had the time and the place maybe I would consider a body off resto but this was not what I expected.

It was mentioned that the lug threads differ, left side of car left hand thread, right side right thread. Your car should have bolts to secure the wheels not lug-nuts. If you are lucky someone drilled holes in those wheels to accommodate a locating stud instead of removing them.

Being bolts are used to secure the wheels there is a stud on the brake drum that helps to hold the wheel and locate it until the bolts can be started. Most wheels, (unless Chrysler products into the 60's) will not have a hole for the locating stud so people remove them.

Wheels shouldn't be too hard to find, I had the spare tire from my parents 62 Plymouth on a 47 Plymouth. Klinger's in Pine Grove is worth the drive just to walk around and look at the stuff. I have a 52 4 door sitting outside that may have something you need, I'm about another hour for you from Klinger's, but if you get desperate let me know what you need and maybe can help you out.

Jay

Yes you are right. If memory serves my 50 De Soto had the bolts too. Someone modified these though as it clearly had studs sticking out threw those stupid mag wheels and some of the lugs were missing. I'm thinking there was something more wrong with the brakes then just a master cyl

Too bad things didn't go better, I was starting to like this car! Better luck next time.

Scott if you are out there, there is a solid looking 52 Dodge on ebay, not too far away only Ohio. Price right now is very reasonable it would be worth watching.

jay

My Daughter Has 1950 Chrsyler Windsor .The has been restored and runs great ,she has been talking about selling . Send me pm and we can talk. Howard