1931 845 Packard Convertible Victoria question

Could someone here please educate me on Convertible Victoria's.

The car sits on a 845 chassis and was built by Rollston. How many were built?

Did Packard also do a in house convertible victoria as well and if so what were the differences between the Rollston. I have also seen references to a 1931 845 Waterhouse Victoria body by Rollston. What was the Waterhouse connection with Rollston? I know Waterhouse was a independent body builder. Did they come up with the convertible Victoria design?

Also what was the difference between the 840 and 845.

Thanks in advance, Kirk Stevenson

Kirk,

Last things first - the basic difference between an 840 and 845 is the wheelbase, 840 = 8th Series on 140" wheelbase and 845 = 8th Series on 145" wheelbase.

As to the coachbuilding connection between Rollston and Waterhouse I don't know but would doubt it.

And if you have a look at the Model Info section on PackardInfo there's some details on the different cars Packard offered as 8th Series, click here - http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/modelinfo/index.php?mode=series&id=8th&ButtonSeries=Go

The Victoria body by Waterhouse was so well received and admired that numerous other custom body companies copied it. So, what you have is apparently a Rollston body, but done (as they say so often these days) "in the style of" Waterhouse.

Here's the reading you need to do, great car, as are numerous of those you post:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/waterhouse/waterhouse.htm

Trimacar, thanks for the link. it explains the connection between Waterhouse and other body builders as they were copying a nice design. amazing on what they were able to acomplish in such a short time. Now does anybody know anything about surviving cars?

Kirk, the Rollston bodies were all aluminum while I think the factory bodies were steel. There may have been a few factory bodies but they would not look as good as the full custom Rollston. Our Packard gurus will chime in with the real story I'm sure.

I have this copy of an original drawing of a 1931 Packard 845 Rollston victoria.

The car below, the same model, is owned by a collector near me as well. Notice how in the drawing the bottom of the body drops down below the sill, while the real car does not have this feature. Which version do you have Kirk? Let's see a picture of your car.

Jason, that is a nice looking drawing!! Definitely one of my favorite prewar designs.

I will be happy to post a picture. I have to dig the car out first. It is on a hoist in the back of the shop. Need to move about four other cars first. I will see if I can get a decent picture of it on the hoist. I am not sure how much room I need do to the camera lense.

i would love to get a copy of the body diagram. If at all possible

kirk

I'd be happy to Kirk. I'll e mail you.

So did Packard do a factory convertible Victoria on the 845 or was it only custom body builders?

Hi vintagerodshop

The Packard factory catalogued a Dietrich convertible Victoria in the Models 833 and 840 Individual Custom lines only. The Deluxe 845 list only 5 passenger Sedan and 7 passenger Sedan-Limousine as factory installed body types.

Deluxe 845 Convertible Victorias would have been customer ordered at the Custom Salons. Whether Rollston or Waterhouse, they are the most elegant and extravagantly luxurious of Packards for those years.

Thanks for the information. Do you mind telling where you referenced the information from.

Thanks, Kirk

I finally got a chance to take some pictures. Had to move some other stuff to do it. It's funny, you can own a car for quite a while and never have pictures of it.

What a beautiful car. I keep repeating to myself, Thou Shalt Not Covet......but it's not working.....

Thanks for posting pictures...

Hi Kirk

The best sources are these books, others will cite their favorites:

Packard, A History of the Motorcar and The Company, Edited by Beverly Rae Kimes, published by Automobile Quarterly.

The Classic Era by Beverly Rae Kimes and the Classic Car Club of American

The Coachbuilt Packard and The Custom Body Era by Hugo Pfau

The aforementioned www.coachbuilt.com is a good on-line source, though the books give context to the culture that gave rise to these art-on-wheels masterpieces. If you have a penchant for stellar engineering, magnificent design, bespoke craftsmanship within their respective era, the Classic and coachbuilt automobile will fascinate for life!

Thanks for the photos, it's an absolute stunner! Is it your Packard or owned by a customer?

Ummmm...just went back and looked at pictures....Pierce on the rack beside the Packard, LeBaron body? Would love to see a picture of that car too, please!

Dave......sure looks like a factory bodied V-12 conv coupe roadster. 1933 but I don't have my glasses on. Very nice automobile. Kirk has a bunch of great cars. Ed.

Thanks everyone. These are my cars. I would never presume to post a picture of a customer's car. The Pierce is a 1933 1242 factory body.

Factory it is, thanks...I saw one picture where you could see exposed hinges and thought LeBaron, looking now at other shot with car in it understand...you DO have some great cars there!

indeed a beautiful car esp. those line(s) ....

Here is the Dietrich version with double rear spare on 140 inch (840) chassis.  http://www.rmsothebys.com/az17/arizona/lots/1931-packard-deluxe-eight-convertible-victoria-by-dietrich/1658318

According to Mr. Blend, his car, one of 11 Individual Custom Convertible Victorias built by Dietrich for Packard in 1931, had been exhibited at both the 1930 New York Salon, at the Commodore Hotel, and at the 1931 New York National Automobile Show at the Grand Central Palace. Confirming his belief, two coats of paint were found on the car during restoration: grey (the Commodore color) and then black (the New York show color). The car was reportedly the only one of the 11 cars to have been built with rear-mounted spares, giving it an especially long, low, and attractive appearance. Furthermore, according to Mr. Blend, a later re-upholstery job discovered “1879/1931 SHOW CAR,” hand-written in Raymond Dietrich’s distinctive handwriting, under each seat panel, although this is no longer present.

Regarding the original question, there were two Waterhouse convertible victorias built in 1931 on the 840 chassis and three on the 845 chassis. The two 840s exist, and two of the 845s exist.

So there were 5 Waterhouse Victoria's,  11 Dietrich,  how many Rollston?