spot blaster experience?

Anyone have any experience using a spot blaster? I'm hoping someone can tell me a bit more about it or the small sandblasters like it. I have a few areas i'm attacking rust in that i can't get to with a grinder, roloc disc, or anything else short of chemical removal. I'm trying to avoid the chemical rust removal as much as possible. I've tried it in spots off and on, but was looking at using a spot blaster in those hard to get to spots. Also, if anyone wants to chime in on media of choice to use with the small blasting projects for rust removal i am all ears.

thanks,

-Jeff

Matt, who owns the shop in which my car is residing right now, did some blasting (customer's request) on a 1963 Riviera and says that unless he could put the car on a rotisserie, he'd never do it again. He has about 8 hours into trying to dislodge all of the media and there's still media in the cracks and crevices. When he put the car in epoxy primer, media would get dislodged and wind up in the paint. So unless you can take the part off to do the blasting, I'd stay away from it.

Ed

I'm working on the trunk and on the back edge where it had rust that i cannot get to with anything else, so i am going to have to attack it with a speed blaster ...i just don't see an alternative other than half-assing it and encapsulating it. It's going to be a driver but i figure i should get it right when and where i can. I'm not blasting the whole car, just a few 1' x 1' areas in the truck, some seams, that kind of thing. Everything on the outside will be done with traditional tools such as da and air sanders. None of that is going to help in the areas where i have cracks and crevices i can't get to though.

If i had the whole body taken off and dipped i would have ended up with 80% of the metal i thought i started with. I don't think i would try to restore anything worse than what this car started if i had it to do over again, but it is a great car to learn fab, metalwork, and now maybe sandblasting.

-Jeff

Just buy a new bag of filters for you shop vac and "borrow" the crevice tool from the household vacuum so you can reach into all of those tiny seams that hide under the braces. A couple of tubes of seam sealer will come in handy as well. Good luck, It can be done but it will be tedious.

Ed

Can you post a link or pic of the blaster you are thinking of getting?

OK Jeff: Several things here. First, I've seen a Safety-Clean media blast machine. It worked similar to the soil-extractrion process a carpet cleaning machine has. It propels the stream of media and has a vacuum to suck up the spent media. It might be worth looking into.

OK ED: I had a 64 Riv media blasted. There is some truth as to having the stripped bones on a rotisserie. The other side of that coin is that there are so many media blasting companies (like body shops, painting contractors and any body else doing skilled service work) that have "unskilled" people doing the jobs at hand. What I'm saying is that if one needs to get a media blasting job done on their vehicle there ARE people that are good and reasonable that do take pride in their work and you won't need to spend a ridiculous amount of time cleaning spent media from nooks and crannies. Mitch

Mitch, the car I mentioned was done by Eagle Auto Stripping, THE place in the Kansas City metro area. They did a really nice job but there were just too many crevices for the media to hide in. I think that part of the inherent problem here is that Eagle does only the stripping and it's up to you to get the small stuff. Either that or it was the customer's choice to do the final clean.

Ed

The blaster i was thinking of using was the eastwood speed blaster. I don't need a big time blaster, just something for patches here and there. It seems easy enough to work with and has numerous attachments to play with. I think you can even rig up the vacuum head with it as well, or at least someone sells a kit for that. I saw a video of a guy using it and though "damn, that is just what i need for the spot i'm in" . Hopefully it works out all right. http://www.eastwood.com/speed-blast-gravity-feed-blaster.html . I saw a video of a guy using it, but can't find it at the moment.

- Jeff

When the add says "small" or "spot" areas it means just that. These units are perfect for areas maybe 4" x 4" or smaller IMO. It will also depend how aggressive the rust scale is in that area. They work best on light surface rust or paint. Heavier scale can be done but will be more challenging. If you can take the heavy stuff off with a wire wheel then use the speed blaster to get in the nooks and crannies it should work OK. When media blasting, volume of output is directly proportional to how fast substrate is removed. The size of the media tank on the speed/spot blaster is a good indicator. For example in a normal sized cabinet blaster that runs around 15 CFM at 80psi the quantity of media the speed blaster holds would be consumed in about 20-30 seconds. It will probably take longer of course in the speed blaster due to slightly lower volume output but rust removal will be slower also. A bigger area can be done with it but you will need more patience and you'll be stopping to fill the reservoir often. Even though its a smaller blaster, it still requires a decent volume of air. The 10 CFM @ 100psi air requirement will exceed the capacity of the average air compressor so check the your air comp capacity first. If undersized, you'll spend more time waiting for the air to recover than actual blasting.

I know you said some of the rust is in hard to get at areas. They make wire wheels in many configurations so maybe you can find one that will remove the heavier rust before using the speed blaster as that will save media and limit the mess. Highly recommend covering and masking everything off when using the blaster. It will be worth the time when it comes to clean up.

I will take a picture of the areas i am dealing with tomorrow and maybe a couple of you guys can chime in with a better solution, but i think the speed blaster is the best option i have come up with so far. It iwll definitely reach the areas i am having issues with, but whether it will be enough i have yet to find out. As for my air at the shop, we have 2, 5 hp compressors plumbed together. It comfortably runs a da sander while another guy is using air tools on a car on one of the lifts. I am pretty sure the setup will run just fine with me running alone in the morning hours. I'm by myself from 6 am to noon, so this shouldn't be an issue at all. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200318461_200318461 That is a picture of one of our tanks. Of course ours are 8 years old instead of new, but i am not in the shop to take pictures, so that was the best i could do from here.

Again, i will follow up tomorrow with pictures of the trunk area and what i am trying to do so you guys have a better idea. I am learning as i go on bodywork, so please take it easy. Any tips or instruction would be great. The other 2 guys at my shop are great mechanics with 20+ years experience a piece, but are somewhat limited in body experience. I think after i did all the sheet metal replacement i had surpassed all of their body experience with just that. I am prepping the trunk area for me to lay down por 15 silver, epoxy a few holes, sand, prime/filler, then splatter paint over that. I have cut sheet metal out to patch 2 areas and i'm now at the stage where i am trying to get all the rust and pitting taken care of before i can degrease/prep the area for por 15. Getting all the seam sealer out and the rust in hard to get areas is where i am currently stuck.

- Jeff

Jeff,

I got an email from Eastwood yesterday in which one of their guys gets into showing how to use a blaster and four different types of media. If you don't get Eastwood's video emails or can't find it on YouTube, I'll forward it to you.

Ed

I agree with Jason.

1. Wire wheels come in all sizes and configurations. Not nearly as much fun as media blasting, but very inexpensive and fast with little clean up.

2. Bead blasting will not remove rust. You need a more aggressive media. With small areas you can afford to buy the good stuff.

Small tools like spot blasters are often available used for just a few dollars at pawn shops, flea markets and craigslist. I bought one for $4 at a junk store.

Jeff,

i have a speed blaster with all the attachments.i wil be happy to loan it to you if you want. I use it for motorcycle parts.

Arnulfo

I appreciate the offer of a loaner Arnulfo, but i don't need too much of an excuse to buy a tool. I am more interested in people giving me the nod that yes, it will get me where i want to go or no, it won't. I will do my best to post pics tomorrow morning so people can see where i am at. I have experimented with a couple of rust removers, roloc wheels, 3 or 4 different types of wire wheels, a dremel with some of the same attachments, and probably a few things i am leaving out. I have not tried sand/glass spot blasting and from what i have seen that seems to be the correct tool for the job/area i am trying to finish up.

It is about getting rust out of confined areas. I can barely get a dremel into these areas with a small stone cone attachment. More of a light grinding attachment. It is tedious as hell, but it isn't about the time so much as about being ineffective. I can probably get it done with the dremel and stone, but it is going to take forever and seems like the wrong tool for the job. I also have some pitting in the middle of the trunk where i have leftover deposits from the rust remover that i wouldn't mind cleaning off. Wire wheels won't touch it, but i bet the speed blaster will. So anyway, i am trying to kill two birds with one stone here. #1 i need to remove the rust on both sides of the license plate area on the inside of the trunk where i canoot get a wire wheel in to take it off. Secondly, i am spot stripping leftover deposits in pittting on the trunk area, and third i would like to clean the seams up a bit better before attempting to degrease and prep them for por 15. I also foersee needing the spot blaster for the trunk channel and possibly the rear window deck(though i might be able to wire wheel it).

Anyway, thanks for the tips guys, I apologize for not posting pics of the areas i am messing with. It would have saved me a lot of explaining and going back and forth. Even after the pics i am sure there will be 5 different opinions on how to do it and what the "best" tool is. Honestly, if any idea comes up that works i will be more than willing to try it out. It is all experimentation at this point and i am learning. This is something i actuqally enjoy, so the time involved means nothing, but i would like to get better at it and have a better idea of what works best for each job.

thanks,

-Jeff

Ok, so here are some pics of the trunk area i am working on. The black areas are patches i welded in where the metal was bad, also some of the support structure underneath had to be patched/replaced. The black is temporary, just to stop rust until i get it all taken down and ready to paint. I still have some welding to do, but i am focusing on the trunk area getting ready for por 15 application.

Ok, so some explanation. All pics are taken looking down at the trunk from the license plate area. Left side, right side, mid(worst pitting), left nook behind license plate, right nook behind license plate. The right nook i experimented with everything i had, wire wheel, wire brush, dremel/stone, acid rust remover, and now i am thinking the speed blaster will be the way to go there. I am also thinking it will work fairly good on the pitting. I hope the pics help explain the situation a bit.

Yea, i know a whole trunk section would have been nice to weld in, but i did that to the entire interior and was trying to save what i had in the trunk and avoid more welding if i could. I could not avoid replacing a few sections and have one more section to take care of where the seam on the left wheelwell got rust eaten.I believe the por 15 is almost bulletproof and will work just fine. I did the gas tank with it and spilled a bit on the floor and damn, that stuff is difficult to get up is all i can say. Worse than bedliner by far if you don't get to it right away. i am pretty confident it will work great and turn out fine if i can get it prepped correctly.

thanks in advance,

-Jeff

Jeff,

That trunk isn't too bad. Definitely not a candidate to replace whole. There is a lot of solid metal there.

I see you have already spent some time as it is cleaned up pretty good. I'd just use rust neutralizer on the areas that are pitted, prime it, fill the holes and divots with fiberglass resin, treat the rest with POR 15 and be done. Of course if this was an exterior body panel it would be attacked differently. Rust repair chemicals have come a long way. I am a fan of media blasting, but for your application, I don't really see any value in trying to blast it.

I totally agree with Jason on this. My trunk wasn't quite as bad as yours but it did have some rust pin holes, a couple of bigger holes, and some pitting. We patched the bigger ones then treated the smaller ones with some rust converter and rust encapsulator. For the pitting we used some All-metal filler; this stuff works like other fillers but has real metal in it and can be sanded, finished, and even drilled and tapped. When all of that was completed, we went over all the seams with some new seam sealer. I think these repairs will probably out last me.

One thing to be sure and check is the bottom side of the trunk floor where the rear bracing is. My braces were rotted off on the ends from collecting dirt then holding water in the dirt. I had to shape some new ends and weld them in. If they're bad, they'll correspond to weak spots in the trunk floor.

Ed

http://www.uschem.com/index.cfm?page=productDetail&id=54

I also agree with Ed and Jason.

Blasting is such a mess. I don't care how hard you try to keep it clean. For what you are working with, I agree with those guys.

Sounds like a big thumbs down then. Thanks guys. I'll figure something out, but this probably means i have to get ready to paint a bit quicker then. On the plus side, that means i might actually at least have a finished section before the weather warms up again.\

Oh, and yea Ed, i had some rusty spots underneath, but i've taken care of the fabbing i needed to do under there. All i have left is reconstructing the inner portion of the wheelwell and the quarters. I did the welding/patching on the outside, but i have yet to get it up on the rack and finish from the inside out. I will likely do that before i paint the trunk. I had a moment of idiocy and ordered some welding wire via amazon and got the wrong size spool, so i am in the process of transferring it off the small reel onto the big reel at the moment, then i will finish up. I was also waiting on my shop-mate to finish up some exhaust work so i can change the machine over to what i need for sheet metal, so i wasn't in a hurry.

I will be using filler on the trunk most likely, but over the top of the por 15. I want the por 15 to get directly to the metal where i can, then i am going to use filler and epoxy to take care of pinholes, larger holes, and irregular surfaces. I'm going to have to do some studying up on that before i do it to make sure on the timing. Some things need to go on when the por 15 is still tacky to get a good stick and i'm not sure how the all metal interacts. And yes, i have tubes of seam sealer plus a can if necessary.

Sounds like a big thumbs down then. Thanks guys. I'll figure something out, but this probably means i have to get ready to paint a bit quicker then. On the plus side, that means i might actually at least have a finished section before the weather warms up again.\

Oh, and yea Ed, i had some rusty spots underneath, but i've taken care of the fabbing i needed to do under there. All i have left is reconstructing the inner portion of the wheelwell and the quarters. I did the welding/patching on the outside, but i have yet to get it up on the rack and finish from the inside out. I will likely do that before i paint the trunk. I had a moment of idiocy and ordered some welding wire via amazon and got the wrong size spool, so i am in the process of transferring it off the small reel onto the big reel at the moment, then i will finish up. I was also waiting on my shop-mate to finish up some exhaust work so i can change the machine over to what i need for sheet metal, so i wasn't in a hurry.

I will be using filler on the trunk most likely, but over the top of the por 15. I want the por 15 to get directly to the metal where i can, then i am going to use filler and epoxy to take care of pinholes, larger holes, and irregular surfaces. I'm going to have to do some studying up on that before i do it to make sure on the timing. Some things need to go on when the por 15 is still tacky to get a good stick and i'm not sure how the all metal interacts. And yes, i have tubes of seam sealer plus a can if necessary.

I have used a HF spot blaster on a bunch of stuff....mask off the rest of the car.....a air hose & shop vac will get most of it.....air supply aside, can be a real time saver. for me the biggest deal on sand/media blasting is the supply of air. it is sometimes inconvenient for me to take a project down to the shop, my little 5hp 120v home compressor runs out of air quick. adding a xtra tank will help, but most home grade units just can't keep up.

I use galvalite(sp?) to treat areas that you can't reach. it is galvi based but otherwise similar to POR15 in use. chemically bonds & encapsulates rust. it can be brushed, rolled, thinned & sprayed & topcoated if you want....lotsa options in rust encapsulation out there...as soon as POR15 sees air it starts to cure. some people just drill a small hole in the lid & por out what they need then seal the hole....supposed to keep the whole can from curing.....

all metal is great for filling pinholes before you POR15 it.

good luck

k

Hi Jeff,

Have you considder the use of dry-ice? I myself have no experiens with that but I have seen great jobs with it. There would be no dust involved.

Maybe some other have done it before??? I hope it isn't a stupid suggestion. If so, i did not send this reply :-))