Dulux/Duco Paint Colors

Does anyone have the ability to convert Dulux and or Duco paint codes to modern paint codes. Trying to figure out what the formula for "French White" (Duco 253-58162) might be. This is the color that was used for stripe color on 1942 thru 1958 Buicks rims/wheels.

Any and all information would be appreciated.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

Gary

Have you talked to BILL HIRSCH?

I just looked at the online paint websites. www.paintref.com appears to have a better listing (as it includes interior colors and notes for some colors), but NONE of them had any "accent colors" (which is what the wheel pinstripes would be classified as). Main body colors, "fleet" colors, but no accent colors. In the world of "chip chart pages", you had the one main page with the main body colors, then you had another page with the interior colors (and "gloss"/"texture" notations) and the various accent colors. It's that "second page" which has not been found online. I looked at charts from 1942-1958 and none had the accent colors listed (the "second page").

The www.paintref.com site had the numbers for other brands, too, plus notes (sometimes) as "close to _________", which might be helpful in some cases.

Getting a color match can be an option, BUT only if you might have a spare wheel that's lived all of its known life in the luggage compartment. Otherwise, the other wheels can be subject to "ultraviolet light fade" or "color shift".

On the online paint chip chart websites, they also sell paint. They also have phone numbers you can call. Plus getting paint in acrylic enamel or acrylic lacquer or the newer urethanes. It might also be good to seek out an old-line auto supply that also did paint, who would have the actual chip chart book for the model years in question.

Just some thoughts . . .

NTX5467

Even if you find the original formula the problem is that many of the pigments the formula may call for are no longer available. A few years ago DuPont would sometimes be able to provide a replacement formula using available pigments but not always. In the real world there is no way anybody on earth could tell if the color tint you do use is "correct", or not, even if it is, or not..........Bob

My paint guy was unable to come up with any modern formulas for Dulux codes when we were trying to find one to match the stripe color for a 57 sweepspear. Best we can do now is match it to a color swatch.

As mentioned using an original paint code is only a starting point. Some colors are easier to match with original code than others. Like black or white. LOL. A good paint rep or body shop can match by trial and error if they have a good paint chip to work from. Sometimes its not a quick process depending how picky you are about an identical match. The shop I used to paint my car called in the factory paint rep to do the trial and error process working of an original paint chip. It took many attempts and test sprays but they nailed it.

One of my earlier jobs was in the drapery production industry. That's where I learned about "dye lots". In the inventory room, there were several bolts of some popular drapery fabrics. They were the same color, but produced at different times and from "different dye lots". If a customer sent in a swatch, needing a panel repair match, all I could do is see how close the "best match" was from our available inventory. When each new bolt was received in, a swatch was supposed to be cut and archived, just for that "match" situation, plus to see how much the later dye lots had shifted. Just as with car parts, several vendors had the same product (under different sales names), which meant I would have a few different sources to get fabrics from (with the related cross-over information on the inventory card).

When I got into car parts, we had a local DuPont paint vendor (who had the old chip books and such). He also carried some "factory pack" pints for new car colors, rather than mixing them. I remember the cans' labels had a "Photochemically reactive" notation on them. I took that to mean "it can fade, just as the paint on the vehicle probably already has". In college, I had a friend who had a red Mercury Cougar (about 1975 vintage), which was purchased by them when it was new. After a few years of parking lots, it had some "rash", which he had a chosen body shop "touch-up" after he graduated. The color match was good, but as each paint faded (or continued to fade), the "spots" would later manifest themselves, I suspected. Still, though, it looked good after it was done. He had a different car before the spots would appear, I suspected.

Key thing is that "color/shade shift" will happen no matter what, by observations. Certainly, ultraviolet light is the main culprit, but as the paints age, the inner "oils" will evaporate from them (which waxes and glazes seek to replentish (as their labels note) and which other surface protectants for other automotive surfaces similarly seek to refresh, which can also cause a certain degree of "color shift" (evidenced by the "darker and more vibrant color" the product can restore to the surface).

I somewhat suspect that "pigment cross-overs" might have existed in the paint industry at one point in time. How much attention these were given was probably minimal, I suspect, as the new chemistry/pigments were always better (in one way or another) than what they replaced. I suspect their "compared to" or "replaced by" notations did exist somewhere, but I also suspect (given the "newer is better" orientation, which was certainly in play in the earlier decades of the vehicle supplier industry!) those supercessions were not dutifully archived for later times, in many cases.

In the earlier 1980s, paint chemistry took some "leaps", with certain pigments not being upgraded to the newer (more environmentally-friendly) pigments. This is why "yellow" colors were discontinued for a few years, back then, until a newer low/no-lead pigment could be developed. Seems like, in those earlier times, some paint vendors offered "exact matches" via some new computerized software technology (probably similar to what some home repair paint mixers now have?) as "other matches" depend upon the eyes of the mixer. Some "shade differences" can be so subtle as to appear "exact" until they are put next to the correct color, which is what the computerized matching system was supposed to correct. AND, in the case of metallic, the base color match can be "dead on", with the "gun pressure" level determining how the metallic lays out, which can also affect the end-color match! I remember one silver 1970s Corvette that had a door ding repaired, right in the middle of the driver's door. Color match and gloss was good, but when it was on the used car line, at certain afternoon sun angles, that repaired spot was very evident (due to the way the metallic laid out, I suspect) as a 6" round "bright spot" . . . an hour later, it was not there.

I'm not sure if the online paint chip chart website/vendors (mentioned above) might have the "cross-over" information as to old vs. more modern pigments/base colors/mixing tints, but I would suspect they HAVE to have something to work from. Or how far the original chips might be from what's on your wheels now? IF you do have a section of a stripe on a "known good wheel" to match, or can "project" what it might have looked like with the base color not bleeding through, then your best option might be to take newer, readily-available chips to find a "close match" and then "tint" from there. When you're comfortable with that end result, you might post it for others' benefit.

Realize, also, that how correct/new the base color the stripe paint will be placed upon CAN have a slight difference in how the stripe color looks. Getting the correct "gloss level" can be important, too! I suspect that many of the newer pigments can be more transparent than the earlier ones, too. LOTS of little things to pay attention to and be aware of! NOT to forget that this will be "brush-applied" rather than "sprayed", too!

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Take care,

NTX5467

This place is located in Pontiac Michigan and the old woman that owns/works there is a book of knowledge . They have 2 foot thick old paint code books and conversion charts too . Could just give them a call and see (they are old school people strait to the point and done )

1. Wiltse's Auto Paint
   Directions
   
2. Paint Store
   
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5. Address: 2618 Dixie Highway, Waterford Township, MI 48328
   Phone:(248) 674-4177
   

Thank you for your thoughts. I will be making a couple of calls this week.

paintref.com seemed to come up with a PPG code 9001 to replace Duco 246-2048 Carlsbad Black.  That number is listed as late as 2001 as a replacement color for several foreign cars.  However, when looking at the chips they specify 190011 for like 2001 Subaru.  That chip appears to be a dark blue.  So, I'm confused.  Would I expect that the local auto paint store could mix 9001 because it is a precursor for 190011.  They took a picture of the car with their camera and it wasn't even close.  It is a 1941 Buick.  They said it was a BMW color but the stuff in the can looked gray or greenish gray.  Obviously the camera didn't work very well.  Any ideas by tomorrow morning would be apreciated.  They had no idea, of course of a color called Carsbad Black.

They might not have any information on "Carlsbad Black" as that's an OEM color name, rather than what the name is in their chip book.  Give them a GM paint code and that's generally what they reliably operate from.

GM could use the same formula color on different car lines, EACH with their own color name!  Therefore, best to use the GM paint code designation.  Many times, in the same model year.

Best to do a "hand match" of the prior color, which can also be done from a chip book, but for the best results, it'll need to be configured to look correct over the base color.  Start with a recent-availability color that's close, then blend/match as needed to get the final desired result.  THEN keep the resultant recipe!

CBODY67