I came across this in central Asia... and have always wanted to know what it is... Any Ideas???

Hello,

I came across this incredible car whilst on my travels in central Asia. Can anybody help and identify this car?

Russian Zis 110B. Styled from 1942 or so Packard models. Here is the sedan version...and another convertible....

They're practically all hand built and extremely rare. As much as they look like the American Packards, not a single part will interchange between them. The Russians did a nice job copying them.

I think parking lights and taillights are direct swaps to the Packard. Other than the front end, I think the car looks more like a Cadillac.

Actually, several pieces of interior trim, including what appears to be the whole dashboard, is also Packard.

See photos here:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15339&post_id=154532#forumpost154532

I'm just going by a few articles I've read about the Zis, including one the was published in the AACA magazine.

I have a hard time seeing any similarities to a Cadillac.

Hi Folks,

We had a similar enquiry in 2003 from China. You may care to have a look at our Help Page http://www.svvs.org/1950_ZIS_110_Saloon.shtml . Not much known about them at the time so took a lot of digging !!

Regards Vintman (UK)

www.svvs.org

Incidentally, our most recent enquiry came from Moscow showing an American looking car in USSR. This turned out to be a cca 1937 ZIS 101. See our Help Page 77: http://www.svvs.org/help77.shtml

I recall seeing photos of the ZIS from China somewhere before. There wasn't much information about it at the time came across it.

Vintman, the story about the 1950 in the SVVS site states, "The Model 110 came about as a result of a present given to Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili 'Stalin' by Franklin Delano Roosewelt of USA of a Packard Super Eight. This resulted in machines and dies being supplied to ZIS for production of an adaptation of the Packard Series 180." is incorrect. There was never any machining nor dies supplied by Packard to ZIS. This is an old rumor. There was an article in the AACA magazine recently which discussed this in more detail.

Hi Bleach, In retreospect, you may well be right and the rumour could well stem from the fact that the bodywork dies were purchased from Ambi Budd, which I belive is an undisputed fact. My research some 12 years ago was from books because the Internet was in its infancy, and anything about Comecon was hens's teeth. I have however not seen firm confirmation that Packard was not involved, although this has been hinted from a number of sources. Rumours?

Regards

Vintman

I would think they are rumors. Also the 110 predates Comecon by about 3 years so I doubt the 110 was a product of that agreement. Ambi Budd was the German branch of the Budd Co. so I don't think they produced any Packard stampings. Budd did do some stamping for Packard in the US but it was in the early 1900's and only for their trucks.

Ambi may have sold ZIS some machinery but that may be it.

Interesting that Wiki states : In Germany, Budd worked with Arthur Miller and set up a steel pressing plant as "ABP" (Ambi Budd Presswerke) in the old Rumpler factory and became a successful supplier of pressed-steel components. Budd owned 26% of the Adler stock and were located next door to the German assembly plant for Chrysler.Budd also supplied bodies for early BMWs well as German Fords. In 1943, the company had to move production underground due to bomb attacks from the allied air forces. They also made parts for the Focke Wulf fighters. They also made bodies for Volkswagen. The Berlin plants were completely destroyed by bombing during WW2. After the war, the Budd plant ended up in the Soviet sector. The machines and tools were dismantled and most of them shipped to the Soviet Union.

So it sounds the old Ambi Budd machinery and tooling ended up in the Soviet hands without any exchange of money. Again there's still no confirmation any of Packard tooling was given nor sold to the Soviets. There was a reference somewhere the Soviets "reverse engineered" the Packard 110 to suit their needs. They also appeared to admire the Buicks of the mid 30's to copy them for the ZIS 101.