1933 REO Flying Cloud starting problems

Hi Folks - My first post here. I just inherited a 1933 REO Flying Cloud from my dad. It ran great when he parked it 10 years ago. He wanted to get it running before he gave it to me, so he put it in a local shop, who worked on it on the side over the course of a year. They replaced a bad fuel sending unit, unstuck the wheels, cleaned the carb, and did the brakes all around. They said it was running good, and my dad paid them. When I called to pick it up, they said they'd have it towed to my house, because the starter was having an issue.

Well, when I got home that night from work, there it was in my driveway. I tried to start it, and each time it would either click, or turn over once. After a few dozen tries over the course of a couple of hours, it fired up, and sounded great! I let it sit, and tried again later, and same thing.

After that night, it won't start again.

I hooked a 6-volt trickle charger up to the battery, and let it charge overnight. Nothing.

I sent the starter out for a rebuild. Replaced it. Same thing - turns the engine over one turn, and that's it.

I bought a new battery (the one in it was supposedly new, but just in case), and nothing. The old battery mfg code showed it was 2 years old, but a test shows it puts out 6 volt and 660 CCA, and the new battery tests well, as well.

I took up the floor, and replaced positive terminal and wire to starting switch with a new 1 Ga wire with a welded terminal, replaced the switch with a new one from Tractor Supply, replaced the switch-to-starter with a new 1 Ga, replaced the 4 Ga wire that was bolted to the negative terminal and ran to a mounting bolt on the starter with 2 Ga, and thought I was set....but it does the same thing it did before!

The only thing I haven't changed (though I bought the part, just ran out of daylight) is the negative terminal and grounding strap - but it's got a hot wire from the negative terminal to a mounting bolt on the starter (which I'm not sure is original - it doesn't show in the original wiring diagram). I imagine if the ground strap is worn, the current would still flow through the negative cable to the starter. Also, all the lights work, so the ground strap is still conducting.

So, if I replace the ground strap, I'll have replaced the entire electrical system in regards to the starter. Any ideas beyond this? I'm so frustrated - $500 and hours of labor, and this car is sitting in my driveway, in my wife's spot - taunting me!

I can turn the engine over by hand easily, so I don't think the engine is stuck. And the starter give it one good turn, then quits.

Any advice or help would be great. I'm not a mechanic. I never expected to own an 80 year old car. I'm open to becoming the custodian of this, and driving it in parades and going to car shows, but I'd like to at least be able to drive it into my garage before the snow comes!

Thank you in advance for any help or advice!

Did anyone at the garage that your father took the car to know anything about cars from the last millennium? Did you get a shop manual with the car? Is the battery hooked up with the correct polarity, negative or positive ground?

They supposedly had a guy who knew old cars, but apparently not as well as they should. I don't have a shop manual, but I have the wiring diagram for the year and model. It's a negative ground system, and the ground strap is on the negative terminal. The positive terminal goes from battery to switch, from switch to starter. It's definitely the positive connection on the starter, because the post is insulated from the body of the starter by a rubber grommet. There is a wire not shown on the wiring diagram connecting the negative terminal to a mounting bolt on the starter. This would definitely be negative, since the mounting bolt is grounded. Though not in the wiring diagram, I've seen this wire in photos of others' engine bays.

I would question if they hooked it up, alright, if it didn't start that first day I had it home. Plus, they said they couldn't figure out how to get to the switch and wires because the engine is almost flush to the firewall. They didn't think to undo the six screws holding in the floor board. The wires seem like they might be the 81 year-old originals. 1 Ga, double cloth insulated. The battery-to-switch had about 4 nasty shorts in it.

Anyway, I'm gonna go and change the ground strap and negative terminal connection, and hope that does the trick. If not, im going to run 12 volts to the starter.

If that doesn't do the trick, it's getting pushed into the barn and dealt with in the spring.

They supposedly had a guy who knew old cars, but apparently not as well as they should. I don't have a shop manual, but I have the wiring diagram for the year and model. It's a negative ground system, and the ground strap is on the negative terminal. The positive terminal goes from battery to switch, from switch to starter. It's definitely the positive connection on the starter, because the post is insulated from the body of the starter by a rubber grommet. There is a wire not shown on the wiring diagram connecting the negative terminal to a mounting bolt on the starter. This would definitely be negative, since the mounting bolt is grounded. Though not in the wiring diagram, I've seen this wire in photos of others' engine bays.

I would question if they hooked it up, alright, if it didn't start that first day I had it home. Plus, they said they couldn't figure out how to get to the switch and wires because the engine is almost flush to the firewall. They didn't think to undo the six screws holding in the floor board. The wires seem like they might be the 81 year-old originals. 1 Ga, double cloth insulated. The battery-to-switch had about 4 nasty shorts in it.

Anyway, I'm gonna go and change the ground strap and negative terminal connection, and hope that does the trick. If not, im going to run 12 volts to the starter.

If that doesn't do the trick, it's getting pushed into the barn and dealt with in the spring.

I can't help with any specific information, but I wanted to share a similar experience. When I was having starting problems, I began replacing components - very methodically - thinking that eventually it would/should work. But it didn't.

What worked for me was to methodically test the components, not replace them. For you, I might suggest:

Disconnect and load test the battery to make sure it not only has the voltage, but also the continuous amperage needed.

Conduct the same test after recharging, but at the conenction point to the starter. Make sure there isn't something sucking up power along the way.

Remove the starter and run it not connected to the engine. See if it runs normally.

Install the starter and disconnect the battery, have someone slowly crank the engine and test to make sure the starter is angled correctly and not binding.

Connect everything and try to start. When/if the starter binds, marke where it is binding. Crank the engine and try again. make sure it is not binding in the same place.

There are more things to check, but hopefully that is a good start for you. For me... my starting problem was a randome event that had nothing to do with the starter, but made it seem like it was the starter.

For me, my problem was a water got into the intake manifold while flushing the radiiator, and drained into an open cylinder valve. The engine seemed to turn fine until that cylinder was in its compressino stroke, but it couldn't compress the water, making it seem like the starter could turn intitially, then it would just click because it couldn't get past that cycle. All I did was pull the plug, rand the staretr and it pushed the water out the plug hole. After that it startered normally.

That was after I replaced the battery, wiring and starer!

That's great advice.

It started out innocently enough - the shop told me it was a bad starter or switch - and they bet it was the starter. Seemed reasonable enough - and the starter is easy access, with only 3 bolts holding it in, so seemed like an easy place to start, and worst case, I had a rebuilt starter. Last thing I want is to be out for a drive and stranded. When that didn't work - the switch was a cheap part, and normally in stock at Tractor Supply (cross references to Ford and IH tractors). Pulling up the floor boards to get to it showed the wires were all in rough shape - so I elected that if I was already pulling up the floors for the switch, I might as well change out the wires, especially since those are also normal stock at Tractor Supply. When that didn't work - I figured it must be the battery. Never hurts to have a spare.

But, going forward, I'm going to follow your advice - test, not replace.

I'm going to replace the ground strap, since I already own it and the old one is in bad shape. I'll clean all the connection points really well. And if that doesn't work, I'll try to jump the starter using 12 volts. If it still binds, I'll check the connection at the starter, and also the alignment at the starter - though it's got three mounting bolts and no way to really line it up. If all that fails, I had planned to pull the plugs, and squirt a little Marvel Mystery Oil into each cylinder, and see if it will crank with no compression.

You're right, though. It's easy to get caught in the trap of just replacing parts, thinking each time, "That must be it!", and continuing to have the same problem.

Thanks for taking the time to write.

That's great advice.

It started out innocently enough - the shop told me it was a bad starter or switch - and they bet it was the starter. Seemed reasonable enough - and the starter is easy access, with only 3 bolts holding it in, so seemed like an easy place to start, and worst case, I had a rebuilt starter. Last thing I want is to be out for a drive and stranded. When that didn't work - the switch was a cheap part, and normally in stock at Tractor Supply (cross references to Ford and IH tractors). Pulling up the floor boards to get to it showed the wires were all in rough shape - so I elected that if I was already pulling up the floors for the switch, I might as well change out the wires, especially since those are also normal stock at Tractor Supply. When that didn't work - I figured it must be the battery. Never hurts to have a spare.

But, going forward, I'm going to follow your advice - test, not replace.

I'm going to replace the ground strap, since I already own it and the old one is in bad shape. I'll clean all the connection points really well. And if that doesn't work, I'll try to jump the starter using 12 volts. If it still binds, I'll check the connection at the starter, and also the alignment at the starter - though it's got three mounting bolts and no way to really line it up. If all that fails, I had planned to pull the plugs, and squirt a little Marvel Mystery Oil into each cylinder, and see if it will crank with no compression.

You're right, though. It's easy to get caught in the trap of just replacing parts, thinking each time, "That must be it!", and continuing to have the same problem.

Thanks for taking the time to write.

I agree with that, and I reasoned the same for me. I figured, worst case scenario of replacing somethign that isn't broken is that I'm just restoring parts of the car. Until I realized I have a more-restored car that was still broken! It's hard not to do that sometimes when you see relatively inexpensive parts, or discover something that just is in plain bad shape (even if it isn't the part that's broken). I struggle with that ALL the time. My projects get so complicated because those issues side rail me. I really find it hard to seperate restoration from fixing broken things. I'll even get halfway into fixing something when I decide that now is a good opportunity to just clean everything. And I end up spending two weeks cleaning and polishing bolt heads before putting them back. Anyway...

As for the starter alignment, if it is off, it is often resovled by losening the bolts, inserting a small metal shim to slightly adjust the angle, and then re-tightening the bolts. A sign that the alignment is off would be binding and/or an unusual wear pattern on the teeth or flywheel.

Good luck and let us know the source of the problem.

She lives! Bought a 12-volt marine battery from WalMart (only bought the marine because it was much cheaper, and had the same amperage), came home after work, and in the soft glow of an iPhone flashlight, I hooked it up, and she cranked over like a brand-new outboard! Took a few tries to get her to stay running, but once she got a good dose of fuel, she ran like a champ. Sounded great, and when she warmed up, gave her a spin around the yard, and for the first time in my life I can say i drove an antique car. Can't wait until Sunday so I can take her out on the road in the daylight.

But - leaves me to wonder - did it need the starter rebuilt ($260)? Did it need a new switch and wires ($100)? Did it need a new 6-volt ($150)? Oh, well, at least she runs!

It's a nice feeling to go from owner of a heap of old metal to owner of a smooth running mostly original 81-year-old antique!

Congragulations Dougie I also own a Reo and am a member of the Reo Royale forum. I own and operate a Restoration shop that specializes in prewar cars. As you embark on this journey with your dads car please feel free to Pm or email me any technical questions you encounter.

Kirk Stevenson

Thanks Kirk! My next missions are to find a gas pedal for it, and get the wipers fixed. I just found the wiperman's site - so I think that's where I'll head. I've always dreamed of restoring an old car - but I have to admit, I'm a little overwhelmed with this....I also have to chase down why the horn isn't working...and figure out which horns are operational, the chrome ones on the bumper, or the black ones under the hood.

Do you have a wiring diagram for your car? If not let me know and I can scan and email it to you.

Hi Kirk - I do, but appreciate the offer. I think my next step is to get the mechanics repair manual. I have the owner's manual and the wiring diagram, but I really think I need the shop manual.

I don't think that car was designed to start and run on twelve volts, unless it had been converted todo so. If not, you'll still have to address that issue.

No, it's a 6-volt car alright. What I did was isolate the starter with the 12-volt, with the rest of the system running and charging the 6. It's a bandaid fix for now - means I have to have 2 batteries in the car for now, and have to manually charge the 12-volt. It's only temporary for winter so I can start it and move it. I'll figure out why the 6 won't crank it in the spring. I still need to change the ground strap. And it may just be that it hasn't been run regularly in years, and maybe if it is started regularly through the winter, the 6 May be able to crank it. I hear the 12 won't hurt the starter, and at the very least I was able to drive it into the barn, so it won't see any snow in my driveway.

Congratulations on getting your car going . Faxon' s Auto Literature has a Mechanic Instruction Book for Reo Cars from 1919 to 1933 . I own a 1931 Royale and it has helped me out . I know that on the 1931's if you touch the generator you can affect the timing chain . So get the book before you touch the generator if it is like the 1931 motor .

Thanks Mark. Looks like it's got an alternator. My dad said it was converted long before he bought the car 20 years ago. Took it for a drive today. Ran nice, drove nice, and surprisingly handled nice. Unfortunately, no brakes. I know the brakes aren't supposed to be as effective as modern brakes - but these are literally non-existent. I'm a little upset because the shop charged my dad for doing the brakes. I used the granny gear to get it almost stopped, and even at 1-2 mph, the brakes don't grab at all. Aargh!

Did anyone at the garage that your father took the car to know anything about cars from the last millennium? Did you get a shop manual with the car? Is the battery hooked up with the correct polarity, negative or positive ground?

Hi, Are the cars listed for sale? Also if they are please list the price. Thanks Dick

There is some Reo's for sale at claz.org and in Hemmings .

Hi Dick, This one's not for sale. Gift from my dad, so gotta keep it in the family. Plus, I kinda like it.

Is this car still not for sale?