Royal Maroon Paint Code 1949

Well, I have searched thread after thread to find this myself but while I've found many discussions, I can't find specifics on this topic. I see I can get a chip and work it out with a patient paint mixologist, use a digital "reader", etc But, does anyone have a source of the proper paint code for Royal Maroon 1949? Has anyone cracked the code where one can just go into a modern paint shop and drop down a data sheet and walk out with a quart of paint in the correct color?

I've matched, prepped and sprayed paint on engines, dashboards, small trim pieces and painted it myself so I know a little but have never had a full body paint job performed so your help is appreciated.

BTW my data plate reads Data plate reads Paint No. 12 K N (M?)

Talk to Ken Brault Auto Paint http://braultautopaint.com. They have the formulas for the old paints. Best bet is to into one of their shops and talk to them as opposed to doing it over the phone. Get yourself an older counter guy and tell them what you are trying to do. Then buy your paint and supplies from them.

.....does anyone have a source of the proper paint code for Royal Maroon 1949? Has anyone cracked the code where one can just go into a modern paint shop and drop down a data sheet and walk out with a quart of paint in the correct color.....BTW my data plate reads Data plate reads Paint No. 12 K N (M?).....

Re: Body by Fisher Paint Number Code

Your paint code number for the 1949-version of Buick's ROYAL MAROON is 12. The "K" and "M" stamped after the number 12 have nothing to do with the paint number code.....they are codes for the factory-installed accessories. Worth noting is that Buick had numerous and different ROYAL MAROON recipes throughout the years.

Re: proper paint code for your 1949 Royal Maroon

IMHO, even if you had the correct recipe for the OEM color as noted on your Body by Fisher Number Plate, the only useful information gleaned from it would give you some kind of an idea of the different pigments, toners, and ratio's of each that were used. Pigments and toners vary from one paint manufacturer to another. Go to ## (pick a number) different paint brand suppliers (Dupont, Ditzler, PPG, TCP, NAPA, etc.) with your SCANNED color chip and purchase a quart from each of the suppliers, spray it on a test panel after all panels were painted with the same color of primer, and you will get a quick education in PAINT 101. My cheapest advice would be to decide what brand and type (lacquer, enamel, urethane, single stage, base/clear coat, metallic or not) of paint you want to use first and then work with ONE "patient paint mixologist". The more people you talk to, the more confusing the answers and opinions you will get. I could go on and on and on with this but I'll stop right n

The paint code is 4912 Royal Maroon #2 Poly the PPG code is #50125

1953mack is so very right … To add to his comments, the resulting overall " look " of the paint once applied can differ by a wide margin even if the same paint code is used. When talking acrylic lacquer vs. acrylic enamel vs. single stage urethane enamel (s.s.) vs. two stage base coat / clear coat bc/cc. Each will have it's own particular resulting effect rendering the top three characteristics of what a good authentic 30's, 40's, 50''s finished paint color should have and possess which are: hue, depth of color & saturation or in the case of base coat / clear coat jobs, a defined & appreciable lack of all three of these essential characteristics. The base / coat jobs render a whole new dimension to the finished job appearing much like a highly waxed hospital floor or a deeply urethane coated redwood table or bar top. This paint type is for the modern glassy look and was developed for modern high production jobs. The modern solvent based acrylic lacquers have a different base chemistry today than yesterday with a different binder in the form of acetone. They offer the best when applied in the form of 8 coats or so the best duplication of your original OEM factory paint job rendering deep depth, brilliant hue and saturation of color. Acrylic enamels come both as solvent based and solvent based with a catalyst hardener. They offer good gloss and hardness without looking too glossy and belong on your late 60's and easy to mid 70's cars. Urethanes are catalyzed and offer color saturation but not as much depth or tone as the former others but render a very decent hardness of surface superior to the others. The lacquers are best and simplest to apply and to make later repairs on. Hope this helps.

Yes, Buick Man, that helps a lot. I think what you said was, for a 1949 Buick, modern 2 stage paint is crap; lacquer is the best to replicate the original finish and looks the best of all current paint choices.

Lacquer will come closest to the original finish, but even the most available lacquer product acrylic lacquer will be different than the original nitrocellulose lacquer. Lacquer is easiest to work with and least toxic to personnel. Lacquer is the least durable: count on 10 years max with acrylic lacquer before it starts cracking; 5 years with nitrocellulose lacquer. Single stage acrylic enamel with hardener is a compromise. It is durable, inexpensive, and comes close to the authentic look. BC/CC is the most durable, but to me looks thick, and seems to mute sharp body sculpting features, and on large flat panels there will be a feature called urethane wave that is much harder to deal with than orange peel.

http://www.buickrestorer.com/centurys/66c/66c%20(33).JPG

Example of PPG Shopline acrylic enamel.

Old tank gives good advice as always. However Dan remember that a lot of bad press that lacquer jobs have received over the years comes from the result of customer applied lacquer jobs not the OEM original applied lacquer jobs. Yes it is true lacquer will if applied correctly do what we call Skin Fade, if left in the sun continuously in a large parking lot day in and day out. It will also eventually do that even sitting in your garage yet to a much smaller extent. Skin Fade is the result of the heated out gassing on the surface of the paint as lacquer paint, chemically speaking, stays in a dynamic pseudo fluid state. But this chemistry also is why one can simply buff out the fade and have a new shinny surface but in the process one is removing micrometers of paint each time that is done. It is also why a lacquer job offers a pool of depth dynamic to a paint job. It is also why car customizers and paint gurus have traditionally used lacquer paints, long after other types of paint systems were developed. This is also why some of the best lacquer jobs have had 8-10 coats applied. The secret to applying lacquer is Thin Evenly Applied Coats and after the 3rd coat each additional coat is rubbed out before applying the next coat. The paint "cracking " as referred to above is the DIRECT result of not following this basic paint mantra of fine thin coats and allowing proper set times between coats and the result is cracking due to the out gassing being trapped. This is totally avoidable and has resulted in one of the many bad raps regarding lacquer paint jobs.

Today, all if not at least most of our hobby cars are kept in a garage so the fading paint should not be of real concern. However with all of this stated, many can duplicate today a decent facsimile of a lacquer paint job using a good single stage urethane. The secret here is after applying the necessary finish coats of 3 or so, then the next and last 2 coats are applied in a highly reduced state like 1:1 ratio. These last two are your buff coats. If when properly cured, one can carefully buff out and acquire the "Lacquer Look" as it's sometimes referred to.

You see at shows and hear a lot of talk about base coat/clear coat paint jobs. The school of thought and reasoning here is that they Think and Reason a bc/cc job is more durable and easier to repair and maintain after all it looks "Shinny". Well let's talk about that for a moment shall we? A bc/cc job has first a base color coat applied, then a clear non pigmented coat(s) are applied upon that. For starters, this base coat looks dull even when applied. It does not have depth or color saturation as it is a pigment layer only. The color pigments are in condensed state. This is the first hint to you that your resulting paint job will lack depth of color. Then the clear coat is applied. Even on the first coat, the surface begins to shine. But remember even when you apply water to a flat black iron cooking pot, the surface will shine. That is only the reflections of available light on the surface. O.K. this is arguably a least time commitment and easy paint application for just about anyone other than your house pet to apply. The skill sets are not highly demanding. But is it more durable?

Well if you mean will it continue to shine, and this is your criteria of what "long lasting" means? Then yes. Every remaining chip of paint will most always be shinny as long as the clear coat remains intact upon the surface of that chip or surface area in question. Also when any surface area is lightly scratched then the clear coat allows for buffing it out which really means removing layers of clear coat in the area sufficiently enough to remove the depth of the scratch but not deep enough to hit the base color coat. Then an easy new coat of clear or two over the repair area and your good to go. But it for any reason the scratch goes deep enough to reach the color coat then the repair is much more time consuming and all bets are off and it's a wash out when compared to repairing a single stage paint. A single stage paint has a much greater ability to resist scratching in the first place and fading in the second position on the criteria scale.

So in conclusion, these are but just a few reasons and differences in the paints which may be applied to your classic car. For those who want to truly recreate and maintain the correctness and look of the past into the present and future then using the correct type of paint is essential. The bc/cc job is a painters fast n easy job. Some classic car owner's have come to like it as well because after all it looks like the paint jobs on their new or comparatively newer cars of the last 20 years. A time line one should note, that has acquired a lot of participants that were not even driving cars 20 years ago not alone owning one and their criteria for Judging what a good paint job means are simply, Is it shiny? Even for those of us who have driven and owned cars for over even a half century or more, some consider the bc/cc job acceptable because like the former group, it remains shinny but also because it's easy to wash off and never "really" needs waxing unlike a lacquer job or a enamel job.

But in the end the bc/cc crowd will never be able to stare into the depths of their car's paint, diving into it and swimming around, but only just stand by it and with sun glasses on - admiring the shine. :')

I am in awe! Simply in awe of the depth of knowledge on this board. I don't know much about paint but am learning right here. I have never liked the two stage paint, bc/cc as you call it, as the shine looks plastic to me. I did go to a restoration shop here in Houston, Classic Cars of Houston, and saw quite an operation. Probably 30 cars in some state of a frame-off restoration. A friend of mine told me he thought their paint jobs would run $20 to $30K with body work on a straight car. I suppose that includes trunk, engine bay, door jambs. That just seems outrageous to me. Any ideas on turnkey paint job prices for a single stage paint? I do know another man who will sand it and shoot it for $3000 if I deliver with trim removed and fenders removed. Not perfect I am sure but where is the "meeting ground" these days for a nice show car finish?

I am in awe! Simply in awe.....A friend of mine told me he thought their paint jobs would run $20 to $30K with body work on a straight car.....I do know another man who will sand it and shoot it for $3000.....

Wait until you get the prices totaled up for just a quality-brand paint, primer, and supplies. Your "Awe" will turn to "Shock and Awe" in no time flat.....especially if you pick a red/maroon color. Note the quart-size can in the pic below.

One item that wasn't mentioned above is that the underlying primer color will affect the final look of the top color. Spraying the same top coat color over a black, gray, white, or red oxide underlying-primer will give you four different results to choose from. FWIW, whatever primer and top coat colors you decide to go with, buy the smallest can of each, shoot them on a test panel, and then make your decision before you write out the big check. Good luck.

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

Vey good point and universally true but many catalyzed seal coats help reduce the effects of this.

Dan, stick to the Buick oxide red primer color and go test out things from there for your top coat results. The cost of a good paint job today is the cost of labor. Not unlike yesteryear, it still is the result of a project that at it's core is not one of "economy of movement". Many repetitive processes are required in the process of painting your car. Applying the paint is really one of the least time consuming of them all and is accomplished in a manner of minutes when compared to hours and hours of prep that goes into a craftsmanship applied paint job. As mentioned the materials are exponentially more expensive as well in comparison. The more prep you can do the less time will be required at the shop. Shops however, want to start with their work with a controllable and known substrate if they are going to guarantee their work and you really can't blame them for doing so.