Identify Maker of this Prewar Reo Royale 4 Speed transmission?

Folks,

This is the transmission in my 31 Reo Royale. Reo offered a 4 speed option in 1931 for 50.00 and this is supposed to be it. But I don't know the manufacturer, it is not marked anywhere on the case. It is a rare option so the club guys have not been able to help me. The patent number seems to be 1143617 which is a 1915 transmission patent assigned to Case & Martin. Any ideas as to the manufacturer? Warner?

http://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=01143617&SectionNum=1&IDKey=4C596FC7B864&HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526d=PALL%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsrchnum.htm%2526r=1%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526s1=1143617.PN.%2526OS=PN/1143617%2526RS=PN/1143617

thanks!

A.J.

Back to the top so Ed can find it.   He thinks maybe Case?

Which seems like a good guess given the patent assignment.

Interesting article on 4 speeds in the 1930s:

http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2012/09/01/hmn_feature4.html

Mercedes used a 4 speed with an overdrive 4th which worked really well.  I guess American manufacturers did not want to overdrive 4th because American drivers didn't know how to down shift.

Wish you'd get back to working on the Stutz. Bob 

I'm gated by others on the Stutz Bob.   The engine is almost done so things will pickup again. 

Hi AJ

If you have a copy of Special Interest Auto, Apr-May 1972, Issue #10, page 28 & 29, there is an article titled "4-Speeds of the Early 1930's".   It has a good description of the functions of each type, and a list of year, makes and transmission manufacture and model, ratios and differential axle ratio. 

For 1931, REO Royale isn't listed. What is listed follows:

Chrysler, Packard and Pierce-Arrow manufactured their own.

Durant 6-17, Franklin 153, Gardner (all), Graham Special & Custom, Peerless Standard & Custom 8 and Windsor 8-92 had either Warner Gear model T5 or T5B.

Franklin 152 and Stutz LA, MA, MB employed Detroit Gear & Machine model RS.

Good to see you at Hershey, you're making great project on a wonderful rarity!

Steve

Hi Steve,

Good to see you too.   I think that is the same article that I linked to on the Hemmings blog?  Very interesting.  It looks like the Royale used a Case transmission.  Don't know what other cars those went in.  Right now I have to hope we can get the new gear to mesh correctly as finding a nother transmission is probably impossible.

I'll take issue with the SIA claim that Pierce manufactured their own 4-speed in 1930.  Pierce used a 4-speed Clark with herringbone gears on **most** of their cars with a wide space between 2nd and 3rd (latter termed "intermediate" which was a 1.25 ratio).  4th gear was direct, and first was a crawler (3.12, off the top of my head).  That was a one-year-only transmission, and is the antithesis of close-ratio.  The Broadmoor Hotel in Colorado Springs had a fleet of 1930 Pierce Model A 7-p tourings (144" wb) for Pikes Peak tours which had 4.88 diffs and a different, far more close-ratio, 4-speed transmission--I believe this was made by Brown-Lipe.  I've driven two of those and the ratios are near-perfect, except of course the 4.88 diffs.

Following that, Pierce used Warner Gear transmissions but had their own cases, presumably for mounting purposes.  In many cases, internals from other cars can be substituted, but the cases are unique to Pierce.  A review of Hollander books from the era will substantiate this.

Somebody else must have used the Case besides Reo?    Especially since this is the only known car to have the optional 4 speed.  It must have gone on some other cars.

Here is what second gear looks like (with the herringbone).

Al, that looks like the Clark.  I have an extra, with the cover off, buried in my shop.  Can't photograph it for comparison with yours until late this week.  Just **perhaps** it may be a Clark with a case unique to the REO.

George,

An extra would be too good to be true.   Any ideas who else used a Case 4 speed?  They couldn't have made one just for Reo.  No volume.

I have heard of cars with the Warner & Detroit but not the Case.

I'm going to push this to the top to see if anyone else can comment.

I had a new 2nd gear made (actually 2 as they screwed up the first one) which I think clocked in around 3k.

George,  did you ever find that Clark out in the shop?

John has one apart at the shop in Indian Orchard.

This video is a good look at the Warner box used by Graham-Paige. I know someone who has a four speed box in their Graham-Paige which he reckons has an overdriven top but I have not experienced it so I can't argue it with him.

Four Speeds Forward - YouTube

I tripped across this cutaway drawing and since the gears appear to match the one above thought it might help. There’s several pages of explanation for 4-speed transmissions, but not this particular one. If any of this might help please let me know and I can take pictures of those pages. 

23 minutes ago, Mark Wetherbee said:

I tripped across this cutaway drawing and since the gears appear to match the one above thought it might help. There’s several pages of explanation for 4-speed transmissions, but not this particular one. If any of this might help please let me know and I can take pictures of those pages. 

I know at this point I should be smart enough to count the gears,  but is that drawing of the four speed,  or the standard Reo thee speed?

19 hours ago, edinmass said:

John has one apart at the shop in Indian Orchard.

Three speed or four speed?   The one we have seems to be the only known four speed,  but it would be nice to find another.   I could find a home for it pretty quickly too.

16 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

I know at this point I should be smart enough to count the gears,  but is that drawing of the four speed,  or the standard Reo thee speed?

 

The more I look it’s a 3... I can only see two shifting forks.