'41 Super Eight 160 Club Coupe, new to me

Several months ago I bought this car from the Murphy Auto Museum in California. It has spent several months in Michigan getting some necessary things taken care of, and is shortly on the way to me in Maryland. I thought this would be a good time to post a few questions.

1) does anyone here know how to figure out (and if it's even possible to figure out) where this car was originally sold, which dealer sold it new, who bought it, and anything else about its chain of ownership? VIN is 14752049, I think.

2) best place to have the champleve badges restored? I have heard good things about Karla Maxwell. Any other suggestions?

3) if anyone has an original overdrive unit for this car (I think the 160 series uses a stronger unit than the 120, from what I gather) that they want to sell, I'm interested.

4) this car is painted kind of a sand color- light tan. This would not have been my first choice, but when one is buying a particular model of a 74 year old car, the choices are limited. Is there any way to find out what the original colors offered were in 1941? I imagine it's way too much of a stretch to try to figure out what color this car was when it was new.

5) I expect to remove the clock and have it restored to working condition. Any recommendations on who could do that?

Although I've been in the car hobby for a few years, this is my first Packard- well, the first one that I am actually going to get to drive and enjoy. So any advice or suggestions are welcome. Thanks to all in advance.

"Champleve? " The 160 doesn't have any cloisonne if that's what you mean, only the 180 does. The emblems in the hood vent/levers and steering wheel center are ordinary enamel. Tedious but no special tricks.

I can help with #3. direct to me is flackmaster AT sbcglobal point net

You mean this? This is an R9 OD unit. The solenoid and governor are still attached, you will need to source a cable and relay box. Worth every dollar and hour invested since the 356 is arguably the best Packard engine, ever. 9 mains, conservatively rated at 160HP, with OD will roll at todays freeway speeds with no effort, won't even break a sweat. You can PM me here, or:

highlander809@gmail.com

"Champleve? " The 160 doesn't have any cloisonne if that's what you mean, only the 180 does. The emblems in the hood vent/levers and steering wheel center are ordinary enamel. Tedious but no special tricks.

There are two round emblems on the side of the hood. They are missing on my car, but I did find a pair on eBay which need to be restored. they are the same on the 160 and 180 series, unique to 1941 and 1942. For the earlier cars with the emblem in that location, Bill Hirsch reproduced the round emblem that said "Packard Super 8", and they are very pretty, but they are not the right ones for the '41 and '42 cars. Tecnhically, they are champleve- or fired enamel, as you say. What I was asking about was any other restorers, if anyone knew of any- Karla Maxwell is the only one I've found so far and evidently she is kept busy with work. She has an excellent reputation on this, though, and more than likely I'll send them to her unless she's too busy to do them. In which case I would welcome having an alternative.

There are two round emblems on the side of the hood. They are missing on my car, but I did find a pair on eBay which need to be restored. they are the same on the 160 and 180 series, unique to 1941 and 1942. For the earlier cars with the emblem in that location, Bill Hirsch reproduced the round emblem that said "Packard Super 8", and they are very pretty, but they are not the right ones for the '41 and '42 cars. Tecnhically, they are champleve- or fired enamel, as you say. What I was asking about was any other restorers, if anyone knew of any- Karla Maxwell is the only one I've found so far and evidently she is kept busy with work. She has an excellent reputation on this, though, and more than likely I'll send them to her unless she's too busy to do them. In which case I would welcome having an alternative.

The 160 and 180 both use the same larger hood side frames, but only the 180 uses the red fired enamel emblems. I hadn't heard the process called champlevé (raised field?) but is usually referred to as cloisonné on these parts. But we are talking about the same stuff. Packard used it for a number of emblems over the years. The 160 emblem is painted stamped brass with a Packard crest on a white background, and it fits in the same circle. Picture eventually if you wish.

Another 160-180 difference I found out the hard way is the running board strips. There are two hump and three hump roll formed stainless cross sections. The 160 is two hump. The inner one is the same as the row across the front of a 110-120.

Thanks! I am exempt from the running board problems as my car never had them, as far as we can determine. Can you post a photo of the 160 emblems? I will probably have the 180 emblems restored and put them on as I now own them regardless of their lack of correctness. I don't think there was a 180 coupe in 1941.

Thanks! I am exempt from the running board problems as my car never had them, as far as we can determine. Can you post a photo of the 160 emblems? I will probably have the 180 emblems restored and put them on as I now own them regardless of their lack of correctness. I don't think there was a 180 coupe in 1941.

I'll try to get you a photo.

Running board delete was an option. There was a Club Coupe and a Business Coupe , 1903 (160, 127" wb ) only. Instead of the running board strips you get to chase the rubber shields for the leading edges of the back fenders. Another hard learned lesson - do not assume that the stainless trim strip for the vertical edge of the running board and the rocker panel are the same length. Also, the upper two front fender stainless slashes are a different length if you have sidemounts.

If you haven't already visited, take a look at the packardinfo site

here's a shot from the web showing the 160 emblem until I can take a close-up (this is not my car unfortunately!)

Lots of useful information, and thank you. My car does not have sidemounts, and it does have the rocker panel stainless trim like the one in the photo you posted (which is a gorgeous car, where did you see it?) I wonder if I have a faded version of that emblem. When you get a chance, a closeup of it or one like it would be welcome. I have seen photos of the rubber shields- of course mine doesn't have them and I have not seen them reproduced anywhere, although I thought Steele might have them. They don't seem to. If no one makes them, I will have to find another 160 coupe that does have them and get some closeups and see if I can figure out how to get them made up.

Behind the car in the photo is what looks like a Darrin 180 from 1941. You are right the emblems are not the same.

Lots of useful information, and thank you. My car does not have sidemounts, and it does have the rocker panel stainless trim like the one in the photo you posted (which is a gorgeous car, where did you see it?) I wonder if I have a faded version of that emblem. When you get a chance, a closeup of it or one like it would be welcome. I have seen photos of the rubber shields- of course mine doesn't have them and I have not seen them reproduced anywhere, although I thought Steele might have them. They don't seem to. If no one makes them, I will have to find another 160 coupe that does have them and get some closeups and see if I can figure out how to get them made up.

Behind the car in the photo is what looks like a Darrin 180 from 1941. You are right the emblems are not the same.

I just got it off a web search. You can see both emblems as you say. The concentric paint and chrome rings are in the base. If you have a 160 emblem, it's small and the rings show. If you have a 180 emblem, as you can see it is larger and covers the rings in the base.

Jim, congrats on the car.

On paint you should be able to ID the original color with either a Packard or aftermarket color chip chart for '41 as most of the literature guys have that. My '39 120 was "Havana Beige" and a very similar if not same color carried over, I believe for at least a couple of years because I have seen it on subsequent Packards.

I see your MB related posts from time to time on "BAT" but had forgotten you had an interest in Packards as well. Thought you had a 110 - did you move it along to get this one?

Jim, congrats on the car.

On paint you should be able to ID the original color with either a Packard or aftermarket color chip chart for '41 as most of the literature guys have that. My '39 120 was "Havana Beige" and a very similar if not same color carried over, I believe for at least a couple of years because I have seen it on subsequent Packards.

I see your MB related posts from time to time on "BAT" but had forgotten you had an interest in Packards as well. Thought you had a 110 - did you move it along to get this one?

Steve, I did have a 110 coupe, a 1940, but I sold it. What I really wanted was a senior series Packard, preferably a 160 coupe. I did not want a convertible as the cost is double and the upkeep is more as well. And, yes, I do post on BaT probably all too often. I think my 1941 coupe is painted Saratoga Beige, or something like that. This would not have been my first choice, as there are a lot of much more interesting Packard colors from that year, but I am probably stuck with it as the cost of a complete repaint would put me completely upside down in the car.

Maybe I can put some pinstripes on her, that will make things a bit more interesting.

If you decide to go with an overdrive,

I have OD transmission,

or

can provide just the correct overdrive cable

or

six post relays.

Packard OD Relays are solid, rarely do people have issue with them.

there several vendors that can provide the separate correct harness for the overdrive, I would use Potomac Packard, they only do Packard wiring. he will even install the harness in your car if you like.

I can send you a photo of the hood side emblem. Can't get it to upload here. Listen to Mr Kazmer - he is quite correct. People put this 180 emblems on trying to upgrade their cars and it just looks wrong.

Karla does very nice work on the emblems, but it is not cheap, especially for ones that don't belong on your car. Also in the past she has had problems matching the red color. Hopefully she has figured that out by now.

I can send you a photo of the hood side emblem. Can't get it to upload here. Listen to Mr Kazmer - he is quite correct. People put this 180 emblems on trying to upgrade their cars and it just looks wrong.

Thanks, Dave - I sent him a shot of the one on Roger L's car because I already had it.

On the overdrive, you'll probably also have to change the rear axel ring and pinion as the O.D. cars had a different ratio. You don't actually HAVE to change it but doing so will give better take-off from stop and a bit more power overall at only a tiny high-end sacrifice that is more than made up when the O.D. is engaged. My more recent expertise is postwar but I think this also applied to the prewar Packards.

To add to the Cloisonné issue, actually some 160s and even some 120s have them but only the Henney on the 120A and 160A commercial chassis. Sometimes they had the Henney name but I have also seen then having the model but never just the Packard crest as found on the passenger cars.

I'd say you won't need a different ring and pinion. The OD is after high gear, not a range selection like a Columbia axle or the like. Also, I just have to say WHERE'S THE DADGUM PICTURES? I mean Packard and Picture start with the same letter. You can't say "...just got a 160..." and not show it, yes?

Absolutely correct that you don't NEED the proper ring and pinon but keep in mind that cars ordered without overdrive compromised a bit on the real axel ratio in order to maintain somewhat lower RPMs at speed but at the sacrifice of low end power. Putting in the proper ring and pinon and then letting the OD take care of higher speeds is better. Also, the OD transmission likely has the speedometer gearing for the proper rear end so would have to be changed if the rear end is left as non-OD.

As for the photos, bring them on!

As soon as I get it here, I will be happy to post photos. Ironically, if you Google 1941 Packard Super Eight 160 coupe, one of the photos that comes up, at least for me, is my car in the setting of its prior ownership- The Murphy Auto Museum, in Oxnard, CA. There are two photos of it in there.

All the pictures I have are non-glamour shots taken to address specific areas in the PPI, or during its recent sojourn at Hammer & Dolly Auto Restorations in Michigan. I'll get some better photos, I hope, when it arrives here. Which, given the weather, might be a while.

Jim

The amount of extra work (not to mention the time in searching for it, and the expense) in changing the ring and pinion is not worth the end result.

Beautiful car, by the way. I love that it does not have sidemounts or running boards.

If the original dealer and selling date is not stamped on the upper cowl plate with the serial number, there is no way of knowing where or when it was originally delivered. Save for finding some original paperwork with the car, letters, etc.

You might be able to assume a little bit about general part of the country by some of the options: Type of heater and air cleaner, for instance, and the condition of the frame (heavy coating of rust scale would probably indiicate northern states; nice rust-free smooth frame would indicate south).

An update. The '41 coupe was delivered by Reliable Carriers (here's a tip of the hat, as Jimmy Hatlo used to say, to Reliable; it took a long time because the car was in Traverse City, not a major destination this time of year, but once they got it loaded it came promptly and the drivers went to a lot of trouble to deliver it when I could be home to receive it- ANDTH e transport cost was reasonable. Diesel fuel is dropping in price and it shows...)

The car is quite handsome. The paint is better than I expected, chrome trim likewise, the interior is VERY well done- I don't know enough about them to know whether it is spot accurate to period, but it LOOKS right and is comfortable and clean. All the gauges seem to work fine. The car is a bit cold-blooded- it's been cold and damp here, but we are going to have a relatively warm spell this weekend and I hope to get it out and drive it a bit more.

Here's a question: I understand that Optima gel batteries should not be kept on a trickle charger. (all my other cars which are 12 volt negative ground are on them) The Packard is six-volt POSITIVE ground. So...

Can anyone recommend a battery charger which will work with this car? I think it needs to be an old-fashioned dumb charger. A modern smart charger hooked up to a + ground car will think it's backwards- and not charge. Won't it?

I'm not going to leave the Packard connected to a charger like I do the others, but I DO want to have one around for it. Cars which spend a lot of time in storage typically tend to suffer from low batteries.

Note that this car has a dual-battery system built for it years ago. TWO Optima gel batteries, which operate in series via a solenoid when cranking- and then charge in parallel when the engine is running. Consequently it cranks briskly for a 6v car...

And yes, I will get photos. My New Years present to myself may be a better camera. I am fed up with the Olympus that I have, it is a dinosaur.

The way to charge an Optima, they respond well being attached to another standard battery by jumper cables. You then put the charger on the standard battery and both the battery and charger will charge the Optima. Don't go over 10A on the charger. As to + or - ground on the car, the batteries and charger don't care about the car's circuit. Just attach to the requisite posts. The Optima should hold a charge for quite some time.