Looking for an engine rebuilder

I have a '29 Chandler with a straight 8 engine, which I would like to have rebuilt. This is an engine for which very few parts seem to be available for. I'm looking for a shop on the east coast that would be able to make or acquire parts as needed... Such as valves, rings, rebabbiting the insert bearings, etc. Who do you guys recommend and how hefty of a price tag should I be getting prepared to swallow? The bore is standard and in very good condition at this time. It ran, although poorly, a few weeks ago.

As with many things, it depends where you are and how much you are willing to do yourself. We'll assume you can pull the engine and deliver it to a shop within a few hundred miles.

Take a lot of pictures, then take a lot more. Degrease the engine as much as possible - a messy engine will only get you a higher price. Strip the accessories, label them, and put them away in marked boxes. Pull the head, clean it, wrap it, and put it in a box with the head bolts. Use a bore micrometer to get some idea of what the cylinders look like. Get more photos. Drain the oil. Get a wood pallet, set the block on the pallet so the weight is supported on solid steel, not just the bottom of the pan, and use pieces of 2x4 and lag screws to secure it to the pallet. Make an appointment with the rebuilder and haul the engine there.

I've had good luck with Custom Automotive Machine in E. Weymouth, MA. It's a very clean, well equipped, organized shop. They do lots of street rod and drag race engines but also rebuild antiques. If your engine isn't too bad, they'll get new pistons and rings (Egge or such), new bearings, bore as needed, grind the crank as needed, new valves, etc. I'd be surprised if you got away on a rare engine for under $4000, could be a lot more. Dana will work with you, get the job done in a month or so, depending on parts availability.

J&M Machine in Southborough, MA rebuilds antique engines. They could be twice as expensive, maybe 3-4 months.

I went to Simplex Engine & Machine in Providence, RI once to discuss an engine rebuild. They seemed competent, well equipped, and organized. I haven't used them but they seem OK.

You should be able to get the job done for well under $8000-$10,000, maybe in the $4000-$5000 range. Maybe someone will offer a valve job, rings, and a general clean-up for less. Depends what your future expectations are.

You need to do a tear down to see what you have. Then go from there. Where on the east coast are you? Dandy Dave!

I'm located in southern New Jersey, near Atlantic City. This is a car that I got a few months ago which seems to have last been on the road in the early 40's and messed with in the 70's. After dropping the pan to clean out any sludge, I took a compression test and tried to get her to run. The one jug that had only 5 lbs of compression was back puffing out the intake pretty bad, so it ran like crap. The engine is now out and totally apart. Crank end-play was fairly poor and a few of the rod big-end bearings are shot. It needs some serious lovin' by a knowledgable machinist/ rebuilder, given the fact that parts for these Chandler engine are pretty much non-existent.

Depending on what the crankshaft journals will clean up to it MIGHT be less expensive (I'll refrain from using the word cheap in any form here) to have the mains and rods bored for insert bearings.......or the rods at least.

I would try to avoid sleeving and just move to the next size pistons that will fit..... www.egge.com , as mentioned above, also comes to mind.

You won't find pistons expressly for your engine there but might find pistons that would work.

Rings and valves are fairly academic.........a matter of finding the right sizes.

Some "might-as-wells" enter the picture as well.

Might as well install valve seats, might as well this and that.......

I've heard good things about J&M Machine at the mtfca forum >>> http://www.jandm-machine.com/index.html

Sounds like mostly valve problems as far as the running is concerned. The other parts are a little more forgiving, but with a wheezing valve, you will never win. You are a little too far south for me to come look. See who is the best in your area and run with it. Dandy Dave!

We're about 120 miles west of you but we have experience with numerous early engines though we've not done a Chandler. We would ball park a complete rebuild (bearings, pistons, rings, valves, etc at $5000-6000. Bear in mind that there are almost always surprises that pop up. We suggest not simply giving the engine to a rebuilder unless that shop has experience with early engines and knows where to source parts and specifications. What we usually do is disassemble an engine, mic everything, source parts and then take the block to a modern machine shop for boring, crank turning valve grinding etc. We then check their work and do the reassembly and testing. Do it once and do it right.

We're about 120 miles west of you but we have experience with numerous early engines though we've not done a Chandler. We would ball park a complete rebuild (bearings, pistons, rings, valves, etc at $5000-6000. Bear in mind that there are almost always surprises that pop up. We suggest not simply giving the engine to a rebuilder unless that shop has experience with early engines and knows where to source parts and specifications. What we usually do is disassemble an engine, mic everything, source parts and then take the block to a modern machine shop for boring, crank turning valve grinding etc. We then check their work and do the reassembly and testing. Do it once and do it right.

Totally Agree. Cracks can appear in valve seats, heads, the water jacket, and the crank shaft sometimes, You just never know. Dandy Dave!

We restored a Kissel Gold Bug, The engine was not usable, having over 3 feet of cracks, even thru the main bearing blocks. The owner found another engine that was supposedly rebuilt in the 1960's. Cursory examination showed obviously new pistons, valves, timing gears, etc. It certainly looked rebuilt. The customer wanted us to use the engine as is. I insisted on disassembling everything just to check clearances etc. The customer balked, thinking it was a waste of money to disassemble and reassemble an obviously rebuilt engine. I refused to install the engine unless he allowed us to do as I suggested. Finally he relented. Turns out this obviously nicely rebuilt engine had no rings on the pistons.

No rings...nice! Restorer, what town are located in and what is your place called?

Sending you a pm.

I know some of you are going to laugh, have it balanced and blue printed. The engine will stay together longer and perform better.

By our definition balancing would always be a part of a complete engine rebuild, as would "blueprinting" if by that you mean returning the engine to factory specs or better.

By our definition balancing would always be a part of a complete engine rebuild, as would "blueprinting" if by that you mean returning the engine to factory specs or better.

These old engines were not balanced. By doing both, it will run smoother, better performance, run cooler and longer that just throwing rings and bearings at it. When I get time, I'll explain what is involved on blueprinting an engine unless someone else wants to chime in. I also have a process done that is called (Micro Blue) If you do this to the complete drive train, it will really make a difference on performance.Here is a sample-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_zXqulVJUo

Sir, May I recommend J&M Machine http://jandm-machine.com/ or https://www.facebook.com/pages/J-and-M-Machine-Co-Inc/270076059772640

This is a very high quality shop that can handle just about anything. They even built the engine for only running PT boat. They did mine and I have had absolutely outstanding results. It is run by 2 brothers, who really go above and beyond. They send you weekly photo's via email. Look at their site for some examples of their work. You may visit them for a tour their shop. Contact me for any questions. I do not work for them, my comments are purely as a consumer.

As with many things, it depends where you are and how much you are willing to do yourself. We'll assume you can pull the engine and deliver it to a shop within a few hundred miles.

Take a lot of pictures, then take a lot more. Degrease the engine as much as possible - a messy engine will only get you a higher price. Strip the accessories, label them, and put them away in marked boxes. Pull the head, clean it, wrap it, and put it in a box with the head bolts. Use a bore micrometer to get some idea of what the cylinders look like. Get more photos. Drain the oil. Get a wood pallet, set the block on the pallet so the weight is supported on solid steel, not just the bottom of the pan, and use pieces of 2x4 and lag screws to secure it to the pallet. Make an appointment with the rebuilder and haul the engine there.

I've had good luck with Custom Automotive Machine in E. Weymouth, MA. It's a very clean, well equipped, organized shop. They do lots of street rod and drag race engines but also rebuild antiques. If your engine isn't too bad, they'll get new pistons and rings (Egge or such), new bearings, bore as needed, grind the crank as needed, new valves, etc. I'd be surprised if you got away on a rare engine for under $4000, could be a lot more. Dana will work with you, get the job done in a month or so, depending on parts availability.

J&M Machine in Southborough, MA rebuilds antique engines. They could be twice as expensive, maybe 3-4 months.

I went to Simplex Engine & Machine in Providence, RI once to discuss an engine rebuild. They seemed competent, well equipped, and organized. I haven't used them but they seem OK.

You should be able to get the job done for well under $8000-$10,000, maybe in the $4000-$5000 range. Maybe someone will offer a valve job, rings, and a general clean-up for less. Depends what your future expectations are.

Gary: I am new to this web forum; our customer mentioned this post to me.

After seeing your comment about us: please don't make any comments since you don't know us.

I would love for them to do this above engine for 4-5k and see it run;well.

BTW an average Model A Ford engine with half the cylinders and all parts readily available, average cost is 5500-6500 so I would love to see them do this.

Gary Ash Quote "J&M Machine in Southborough, MA rebuilds antique engines. They could be twice as expensive, maybe 3-4 months."

Mr. Ash, What is your basis for this comment? How did you base both your price quote, and the timeline? If you say "They could be twice as expensive"; well I would add that "They may have a lower price since they specialize in Antique Engines, they are better tooled, and with their experience, they will have less time in research."

It is interesting that you then recommended another company, while you add that you have never worked with them.

After a great deal of research, I chose J&M to do my engine. They are experts in antique engines.

Taking a rare and unique engine like this to a local shop may get a satisfactory result, it may also result in damage to this non-replaceable block. Most local shops are not set up for babit, and cast iron.

Rather than Mr. Ash's subjective speculation; I have the data, I have the experience, I know that the J&M price was reasonable and lower than 2 other shops.

So I believe that my statements hold much more clout, as my comments are not based on speculation, but actual experience.

J & M also gives back to the Antique Auto community, offering tours of the shop to any club. Our club went there a few months ago. They have always donated to our club regional meets. I feel that this goes a long way. Yes, they are marketing themselves, but we as antique auto enthusiasts, should support companies that give back.

For the original poster of this thread, I am experienced with this company. I did a great deal of due diligence before I made my decision. I know their price is very reasonable, and keep in mind- 'You get what you pay for'. Could you get your rare engine done and save $100, probably yes. But no matter how your car looks, how fine the interior feels and fits; It is all for nothing is you don't have a motor that reliably moves it down the road.

You may stop by and try my car if you have any questions. I trusted them with both of my cars. I am very satisfied.

ctvpa and J&M

Welcome to the AACA Forum.

Gary was trying to be helpful with his post, and mentioned J&M as a place that does that kind of work. Please, do not read anything more into it.

Thanks, West, but since I have been called to task, here are my data points:

I had my "plain vanilla" flathead 6 engine rebuilt by a very good shop in the Boston area. They do both high performance engines and antiques, have a fully equipped shop that is clean and well organized. Cost was about $3200, time was 3 weeks.

I do know J&M. A friend of mine had the exact same type of engine rebuilt by J&M, cost was about $5000, and it took much longer. I have had other people in the car community also note the differences in price structure.

Any shop is free to charge whatever they wish and work at their own schedule. We all have to work out some kind of relationship with the businesses that serve the hobby. Maybe I just got a good deal and I hit a period when my shop wasn't too busy. I didn't take issue with J&M's quality in my post, and I was generous enough to mention J&M as a known New England shop, as well as Simplex Engine in Providence. But, I'll be sure to not mention J&M again, and I won't send any potential customers in that direction.

Thanks, West, but since I have been called to task, here are my data points:

I had my "plain vanilla" flathead 6 engine rebuilt by a very good shop in the Boston area. They do both high performance engines and antiques, have a fully equipped shop that is clean and well organized. Cost was about $3200, time was 3 weeks.

I do know J&M. A friend of mine had the exact same type of engine rebuilt by J&M, cost was about $5000, and it took much longer. I have had other people in the car community also note the differences in price structure.

Any shop is free to charge whatever they wish and work at their own schedule. We all have to work out some kind of relationship with the businesses that serve the hobby. Maybe I just got a good deal and I hit a period when my shop wasn't too busy. I didn't take issue with J&M's quality in my post, and I was generous enough to mention J&M as a known New England shop, as well as Simplex Engine in Providence. But, I'll be sure to not mention J&M again, and I won't send any potential customers in that direction.

Gary I'm sorry that you feel insulted: I read into your post and got from it that we're "too expensive and took too long." We charge what we charge because of the service and work we provide. Clearly any one can charge what they want and take the time to do it. Your referral of the 3200 dollars from brand X versus our 5000 dollar job isn't Apples to Apples comparison. we're sure of that.

I now remember which engine you mean: Studebaker. engine had cracks that the customer wasn't aware of and took more time to repair.

He also had a bad Manifold he had to find but that took time also.

More like chocolate than Vanilla. The other shop didn't have to deal with crack repairs I'm sure.

Seems over the years the only complaint we've ever had is "we do good work but we're expensive" and I take it as a compliment.

On a daily basis we get calls from customers taken by other machine shops who paid and got Cheap. We're not about Cheap we're about doing it right.

We wouldn't have customers like Craig, that mentioned this forum and stuck up for us if we were just out for a fast buck. That's customer loyalty.

I don't think not "sending" any work J and M's way is going to affect their business.........they are well known and highly regarded by all sectors of the car community.......

Thank You

Palmyra, NJ is near the Tacony Palmyra Bridge across from Northeast Philly. There you'll find Hercules Welding. They rebuild engines with equipment,some going back to 1913.http://www.manta.com/c/mmbqwbg/hercules-welding-machine-co?ftoggle-frontend-prod-on=abTests.revenue.responsive_12162014_control&utm_expid=82789632-30.8Ue3RXoXRoWAwC0cgSs_wg.1

You can get good, and you can get cheap, but you can't get them both, at the same time.

We get 200.00 dollars each, and more on our rods that are more complicated, and more labor.

There are other places that get 50.00 dollars for the same kind, but don't think you are getting the same workmenship, or quality, or we would not have been in business for 48 years.

In 48 years, we have never lost a Rod, or Main bearing, our babbitt don't don't fall out.

If you get new bearings from somebody, check the line where the babbitt stops, and the steel begins. It should look like this, not like water on wax.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]287236[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]287238[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]287237[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]287239[/ATTACH]

Most of our work is from other engine builders, and being that way, you hear who is putting out the work the way it should be done, and the shops that are taking back in, engines from other builders to rebuild a fresh rebuild.

Any one ever heard the term, ( You Get What You Pay For), Boys, it is well and Thriving!

If you go to the Ford Barn.com and look at this years, posts, and all the past years, of all the so called Model A engine builders, where the Guy spent 2500.00 to 6000.00 on a fresh rebuild and didn't get a 1000 miles on the engine before it blew, and the builder said, It must have been something you done.

Now, for the machine shop that is called J & M Machine.

I have heard nothing but good on these guys, and if it wasn't, I would know about it!!!!!!

If I remember right, from the Ford Barn, that they posted a list of questions, one should ask a engine builder, to see what kind of answer they get.

Herm.

These pictures are a little, well OK a lot mixed out of order, but I will try to explain what your looking at.

No.1. Shows a 1911 Marmon car rod cap off a set of 4 rods that had less then a 100 miles on them, before they blew.

The babbitt did not stick for several reasons, wrong temp., not clean, and not tinned right. You have to remember, nothing sticks to dirt! Tinning Temp. should be between 610, and 640, no higher, as it will burn, and no lower as the pouring babbitt will not stick, and that should be at 950.

If your babbitter does not have regulated Babbitt pots, "BEWARE".

2.& 3. Shows, off set, in Rod, all rods have to be checked for alignment, there is not one Rod Lathe that will bore a rod good enough to put in a engine with out aligning, and there are a lot of shops don't even have one. "ASK"

4 & 5 Show a rod being bent, and No. 5 shows a Rod getting the Twist removed.

6. is showing the torqued Foot Pounds of the rod bolts. If under torqued, the rod will come apart in use.

If over torqued, the threads will umbrella towards the nut, and will also distort the bearing.

7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. Shows how the babbitt is flowed to the rods, and caps. They look like one metal, just a difference color.

13. 14. 15. 16. 17. Shows the bad tinning job, and wasn't clean. They will look like they are tinned, but will be black with carbon after poured. 15 shows what it looks like with out bond, and wrong temp. pouring.

18. Set is done.

Herm.

Generally when someone asks us to "rebuild my engine" the question really is "if I bring you my car will you rebuild the engine, make it pretty, detail the firewall and engine compartment, check the clutch, radiator, fuel pump, starter, generator, carb and ignition and reinstall the engine and test drive and adjust". Just saying.

Generally when someone asks us to "rebuild my engine" the question really is "if I bring you my car will you rebuild the engine, make it pretty, detail the firewall and engine compartment, check the clutch, radiator, fuel pump, starter, generator, carb and ignition and reinstall the engine and test drive and adjust". Just saying.

If they were all just that easy. Everyone would be doing it. Dandy Dave!