Car is back together but still won’t start!

Quick question.

I was chasing all of the manifold bolts with a tap and when I was looking down the bolt holes and coolant holes along the passenger side, above the valves, I notices these rods running the length of the motor from front to back and then curving downward at the very back of the motor then disappearing.

I can’t find any reference to them in my Service Manual or Parts book.

Anyone have any idea what they are? I’m just curious as to what they are. They are too long to just be foreign debris.

Thanks!

Cory

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I think you might be looking at the coolant tube which runs from front to back of the block alongside the valve seat area, this was the Mopar answer to save burning out exhaust valves by directing coolant through holes in the tube around the valve seat area inside the block, it was a very effective measure for cooler running.

Unfortunately they would corrode in service leading to overheating; depending on engine condition they need to be replaced from time to time, access is from front of the block behind the water pump (see a kidney shaped port when the water pump is removed). Not a job for the faint hearted as bits usually break off when you try to remove the old one.

Alternatively you could be looking at bits of sacrificial wire placed in the block during casting, they were designed to corrode before the block during the life of the engine, best left alone!

hchris: I replaced the Water Distribution Tube last week this ain't it. This is all the way against the passenger side of the block under the Manifold Cover bolts.

I am inclined to agree with you assessment of them being casting artifacts. Looks like they are there to say. 65 years in place and they haven't caused any problems yet!

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Part Numbers needed:

I have the wrong parts manual. I have the P-15 Parts book, but I have a P-18. Most of the engine items have been correct when ordering, but I have received a few wrong ones too and was wanting to verify numbers before I ordered this bolt for the Cylinder Head Cover.

It sits in the second bolt hole back from the front of the drivers’ side, and the top screw serves as the connection point for the grounding cable from the battery.

Under Group 8 my Parts Book lists the following potential parts:

SCREW, Generator Bracket and Ground Terminal (866 890)

And ‘Attached Standard Parts’

Bolt, hex-hd., S., cd-pltd, 7/16”-14 x 1” (122 253)

Washer, lock, med., S., cd-pltd., 7/16” (120 383)

However there are no associated pictures to verify this. Plus the bolt listed is only 1” long.

In Group 9, under Part Type Code it lists 3 Screws.

The first line item I know are the 20 regular bolts. I am wondering if the second line item might be what I am looking for, but it says it is used with an oil filter and that’s at the rear of the engine. So that still doesn’t make sense.

I am wondering if my grounding cable is not configured correctly, because this picture makes it look like it goes down by the Generator somewhere.

Then again, this could all be because I have the wrong Parts manual. I do have the correct one on order but it is being sent by USPS Media Mail, so who knows how long that’s going to take to get here. I’d like to get the parts on order sooner then later so that I can have everything on hand to begin re-assembly when I get back from TAD and Thanksgiving Leave in Massachusetts.

I have looked at the following web sites with no luck:

Andy Bernbaum

Collectors Auto Supply (a possibility, but not sure. E-mail sent.)

Vintage Power Wagons

Egge

If anyone has any knowledge of what is going on here, I would appreciate the info, and applicable part numbers for both of the bolts.

Thanks for the help!!

Cory

P.S. If my posts seem long its because I want to be thorough, and also show that I am doing my homework before I post.

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Greeting good Motor Heads and Wrench Turners!!

The Engine has been re-assembled (with exception of radiator and coolant hoses to facilitate access to vibration damper to hand turn motor), and all electrical connections made with freshly charged battery in place.

I tried to do the static testing as described in the Tech Tips page, but no luck. I can not get my tester bulb to light.

I have installed the correct rotor and cap (matched to the Distributor). I also verified that my tester was operating by placing the leads on the Pos and Neg poles of the battery. I then verified that the #1 Cylinder was at TDC by using the access hole over #6, checked that the Rotor was at 7 o’clock, and that the Intake and Exhaust valves on #1 were both closed. So far so good.

I then removed the lead from the #1 Spark Plug and inserted my tester tip into it and connected the other end of the tester to the ground cable end that bolts onto the Cylinder Cover. Next I turned on the ignition and rotated the Distributor fully clock-wise to the stop, then slowly counter clock-wise to the stop, but no light. I did this several times but with no luck.

Then I removed the spark plug wire to test it. I had replaced the wires years ago when I first started working on the car. They are the kind that you cut to length. I was thinking maybe I did it wrong. So connecting one end of the tester to the wire and the other end still to the ground, I placed the other end of the plug wire to the NEG (-) pole of the battery. The tester did NOT light.

This could be a problem, but I’m not sure. When I had weeks ago attached the in-line test bulb each plug wire illuminated when I cranked the motor with the starter. So I am confused with that.

Thinking that this could be a problem I took at set of leads and attached one end into the #1 hole of the distributor cap and verified that the connection was good by using my test light. This was good. So I again set up the test and did the directed clockwise and counter-clockwise rotations, but still no light on my tester.

Here is were it gets interesting to me and I need some clarification because I re-read the entire Ignition System Chapter again from my Service Manual (Plymouth Adams!! ). I then started to check for voltage within the Distributor.

I first noticed that when I placed my meter on either side of the Points (as they are in the closed (Touching) position) that I was getting no Voltage. When I would take my meter lead and push the Point open I would get 6.31V. I repeated this with my test light. With the points closed it would not light. Pushing the point open it would light.

If I understand the points correctly, their contact causes the current to pass through and on to the plugs, however it would seem that when they are closed (touching one another) that this does not happen.

So two questions:

1. Should the spark plug wires pass the 6v current to light the tester when placed in line with the battery and ground? (I assume yes, and think new / correct wires are in order)

2. What is up with the points and not getting power across them?

I don’t know where to go next with this.

Thanks in advance!!

Cory

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Bad condenser

As I was reading this I suspected the points. But you have covered that. So it could very well be the condenser, or possibly the coil.

With an air gap, or one of those neon spark testers you should get a snap out of the top of the coil when you manually open the points. OR, simply pull the coil wire out of the Dist and put a spark plug on it and ground the plug to the head. Then use an insulated screwdriver or the likes to manually open and close the points, you should see spark at that test plug.

Make sure the key is turned on. Don't ask me how stupid I can be.

Jack M: What do you make of this?

1. With the Distributor Cap off I rotated the distributor fully clockwise and found that I had to turn it to the extreme counter-clockwise position before the points began (important) to open.

2. I rechecked my gap between the points and found that it was not the needed .020. However I knew that I had just checked them and they were satisfactory. I then hand turned the vibration damper clockwise and at the 10 degree mark the points were full open to the .020 gap. However at this point the piston has begun to descend. Not drastically, less then 1/16 of an inch, but I could see my piston marker move.

So at this point I am not sure what I need to do.

I am thinking that I need to put it back to TDC and 0 degrees and then open the gap to .020, but am not certain. Additionally I don't know if this indicates a larger problem and am crossing my fingers that my idea is correct or if it is something else that it is an easy fix.

Thanks for the guidance! Standing by to move!

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The coil fires when the points just start to open. I don't know what your book calls for regarding timing, but I think you need to read it until you thoroughly understand the procedure for your engine

All you need is for the timing to be close at first.

You are complaining of NO SPARK. You need to deal with that first. Then do the fine tuning.

TDC and .020 could be a good place to begin but if there is no spark it wont matter. For some reason I am thinking that .020 may be a bit wide but if that is what the book calls for then by all means start there (if you get a pinging try .017).

Where the engine is for the initial tests that I described earlier wont matter for trouble shooting as long as you begin with the points closed. The fire comes from the coil so you can forget the cap and rotor for now as the distribution will come later in the tune up. Take one of the plug wires off the set up and stick it in the coil, with a spark plug on the other end and grounded you should be able to make it fire by manually breaking the points. If you don't get a little flash at the points when you do that then it is probably the condenser. If you are using the cheapest parts available and they are new I would be suspect of them.

I just reread your tests and you don't mention that you get a spark (at the points) when manually opening the points. With the key on (voltage, DUH!) you should get a bit of a spark there when you break that connection and the voltage shows up. I am back to the condenser. By the way, when you break the points use an insulated tool as you can get a pretty good jolt there.

Sometimes when I am doing this kind of troubleshooting I will use a plastic handled screwdriver across the closed points and get that spark. This indicates that there is no current passing thru the points and the metal of the screwdriver is acting like points by making a connection from one side to the other. This is common on a system that has been parked for awhile. You are one step past that as you have found tat you indeed have the voltage coming and going when you open and close the points.

Incidentally, when I replace points on these I take the distributor to the bench. You can do all of these tests at the bench using a couple of clip leads and a battery, you will have to take the coil, plug wire and sp plug with you as well of coarse. Lightly clamp the distributor in a vice and then you can use the vice for your ground. When you find the problem it is quite rewarding to spin the shaft and watch the light show.

Since I am rambling here I will lay out how to bench test. Battery pos to ground on the vice, battery neg to neg on coil, coil pos to distributor, Spark plug wire in the coil post with a spark plug on the other end grounded to the vice. If all is well you should be able to spin the shaft and watch the spark plug fire as fast as you can spin the thing.

Good luck and keep us posted.