THE GENERAL MOTORS' ARCHIVES

I received an email over the weekend from a friend on the west coast that has me really wondering. I was told that the General Motors' Archives is in private hands now.

Does anybody know anything about this? When did this happen? I'm sure a lot of people would like to know what is going on here.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

As I recall, it's still owned by GM, just not open to the public as it used to be. Now, I believe, it takes an appointment by a group . . . as one national car group did a year or so ago. Periodically, some of the vehicle fleet has "thinned", but not completely, but that's nothing new, either.

From the looks of their website, www.gmheritagecenter.com , it's still up and running and ALL GM. LOTS of interesting stuff in that website!! Click on "Reserve" for information on tours, use for events, and such.

Additionally, the Chrysler Museum is now closed to the public, but opens for private events and activities. Admission fees and memberships were not supporting it . . . even with all of the volunteers that were working there.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

Willis, I believe you and I are talking about two separate facets of General Motors. Most everybody is aware of and knows about The Heritage Center. I have been told that this is where GM houses their collection of vehicles. The GM Archives is the photographic collection, if you will, that has accumulated for over 100 years. When our company had the licensing agreement with General Motors we made extensive use of their vintage photos for specific years. This is what has gone to private ownership I have been told. I will send you a private email regarding this.

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas

Terry, I had also heard that in the flood of the Tech Center earlier this year, GM lost a considerable amount of the archives due to storage in the basement, which was under 6-8 feet of water. Could be that they sent it to an archival restoration service to see if they could be saved.

I thought it was a Michigan newspaper that was opening up all their old files and pics to the public

I wish Ford had something like the GM Heritage Center website.

One of the online "treasures" was the website for GMPhotoStore.com , which sold many of the old prints (pretty reasonably-priced) and would also put the images on ceramic coffee mugs and such. From the original website, it's grown and expanded over recent times.

Another great epherma website was www.plan59.com, which also had lots of earlier car pictures and art. That particular website went away or morphed into another website, I just know that some of the great car print ads I found were not there any more. HUGE amounts of car stuff of all major brands. I downloaded a large amount of them on my other laptop (also "cheap entertainment"). Lots of great Buick art, too. Not to mention the Pontiac art adds.

I'll look for your email,Terry.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

In Googling "GM Archives", the vast majority of the search results went back to the GM Heritage Center in one way or another. Prior to the GHC, each division was in charge of their divisional archives. In the '80s, it seemed that Pontiac was a "leader" in GM with respect to providing information on vehicles they built in prior years, probably fueled by the desire of '60s Pontiac enthusiasts to learn about their cherished GTOs and other Pontiac Performance vehicles of that era, I suspect. Others kind of followed suit, but not before a good bit of their "old stuff" was gone. That's why when you look at the "vehicle information" section and see the earliest years, each division is different.

Another aspect of these things is that ALL information archived does not have equal value, to the division or to the hobby. For example, one of the Buick websites has a list of Buick dealers in the USA, in the later 1960s era. Few people in the enthusiast network might value such information, but if you're researching where your Buick might have been purchased, it can be good information to have. ONE aspect of that list is that it serves to indicate just how wide-spread the GM vehicle supply network (i.e., dealerships, franchises) were back then! By observation, the closer the retail outlet is to the customer, the more vehicles the corporation can sell. FEW were large dealerships, but ALL did add to the total number of Buicks sold. Many were also combined with other GM carlines, which helped the smaller dealerships serve a broader customer base, which helped them make more money in non-metro markets. Be that as it may . . . now or then.

End result is that some of the purged files might have contained interesting and valuable information for particular vehicles, a good bit of it would have been much more "niche-oriented" than things like production of vehicles and how many vehicles had which paint scheme, interior trims, and combinations of other options on them. In other words, information which could be used by a seller to claim their vehicle was "1 of ___" (as many in the Chrysler Corp end of the hobby might do on many vehicles they built in the muscle car era, possibly Pontiac, too). To the corporate operatives, it was "stuff" taking up space in a warehouse that could be used for newer files of similar things.

When I read the post from our Aussie associate, it made me wonder if the archived files being referenced were from GM/Holden or GM North America? Just a thought.

EACH entity or operating unit of GM (or the others, too) would have archived files to document what they did. Therefore, the main marketing archives would have been with each division's main depository, whereas the engineering side of things might have been exclusively in The GM Tech Center in Warren, MI, typically. This could have been a variable situation depending upon the years being talked about AND how much security each division might deem was necessary for their "trade secrets" (or similar) AND the amount of engineering "sharing" being done among the GM divisions (less in earlier times, more in more recent times). Of course, as "newer is better" happened to vehicle design/engineering, "older" was "yesterday's news" and shuffled away to "out of sight land", I suspect.

Just some thoughts . . .

NTX5467

The GM Heritage Center houses the vehicle and GM product collection. The collection includes vehicles, engines, prototype cars, Delco Light plants, artificial heart machine, Electromotive material and a fairly extensive literature collection.

When the divisions were in control of their heritage a fair amount of it was lost. I know at Buick a former director of Customer Service had the old material thrown out as it was using up file cabinet space. :-( Other divisions were more careful of their material and kept control of it. I believe that at this point the GM Heritage Center has most of the material that was held by the divisions and other various staffs like Research, The Plants, and where ever they could find it. The GM Heritage Center is the repository for GM historical material for the Corp. Very interesting place.

An interesting note is that talking to the staff at the center, it is not unusual for people like old retirees and family members to stop by and give back/ donate items that were captured from the trash in previous throw out purges.

If you ever get a chance to visit the center, it is a very interesting place. The one building where visitors are received only houses a portion of the vehicle collection which rotates. You can only get in with a group with reservations as far as I know. It is not open to the public for general visiting hours.

.....I was told that the General Motors' Archives is in private hands now. Does anybody know anything about this? I'm sure a lot of people would like to know what is going on here.....

A lot of speculation on this one.

I've often wondered why we can't get a go-to person from BUICK (not GM) to write a monthly column in the BUICK BUGLE to eliminate the guessing games going on out there. There are a lot of unknowns as to what documents were saved and what were destroyed. A Q&A column could also address all other issues brought up by the general membership. Too much to ask? On a related topic, it would be nice to know what records the late Dave Corbin had as a source for his numbers and other info.

My vote would be for somebody that's getting paid by the BCA to line this up with BUICK.....the Editor (Pete), the Books, or the Board of Directors?

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

A lot of speculation on this one.

I've often wondered why we can't get a go-to person from BUICK (not GM) to write a monthly column in the BUICK BUGLE to eliminate the guessing games going on out there. There are a lot of unknowns as to what documents were saved and what were destroyed. A Q&A column could also address all other issues brought up by the general membership. Too much to ask? On a related topic, it would be nice to know what records the late Dave Corbin had as a source for his numbers and other info.

My vote would be for somebody that's getting paid by the BCA to line this up with BUICK.....the Editor (Pete), the Books, or the Board of Directors?

Al Malachowski

BCA #8965

"500 Miles West of Flint"

I am very well versed on the GM Heritage Center. What I have said above is accurate. If there is anything in particular that you would like to know about regarding the Heritage Center that I can not answer I can find out. Here is my link from the GM Heritage Center of my truck.

https://history.gmheritagecenter.com/wiki/index.php/1915_Buick_C-4_Delivery

Any questions????

Thanks for that link, Larry! Interesting stuff!

As I recall, Mr. Corbin received his information from "Terry and Larry". With that information, he was able to build a spreadsheet to pretty much match batches of Buick engines with Buick frames, which plants got what, when, and determine the approximate build date of particular vehicles. LOTS of interesting tidbits of information relating to how Buick operated "back then", too.

Also, don't forget about the Buick information housed at the Sloan Museum!

Regards,

NTX5467

Thanks for that link, Larry! Interesting stuff!

As I recall, Mr. Corbin received his information from "Terry and Larry". With that information, he was able to build a spreadsheet to pretty much match batches of Buick engines with Buick frames, which plants got what, when, and determine the approximate build date of particular vehicles. LOTS of interesting tidbits of information relating to how Buick operated "back then", too.

Also, don't forget about the Buick information housed at the Sloan Museum!

Regards,

NTX5467

NTX5467,

Forgot about giving the information to Dave Corbin. I was lucky when I worked for Buick I was able to get a copy of the pre war and maybe more production numbers, chassis break points, engine numbers by year and plant information when it was all written down by hand in a ledger. The information went back to 1903 or '04. Made copies of it all and gave it to Dave. I think it helped him confirm a lot for his build information.

You are right about the Sloan. I donated my personal collection of material (a couple of skids worth +) to the Sloan a number of years ago. They also have a large Buick repository of literature, manuals, and other information. I think they also got some material from Kettering University formerly General Motors Institute over the years and other GM divisions. I know Buick gave them materials also, especially when Buick moved from Flint to the Renaissance Center in Detroit.

If anyone needs the data, I could look to see if I have the particular request, but it would not be as well vetted as Dave did with his spreadsheet.

Although a different "Larry" (er Lawrence), thanks for that clarification. I remember David having a smaller, black notebook of production information at one of our chapter meetings? Handwritten in pencil (or faded ink), with many interesting entries of which cars were shipped "where". That's when it was revealed that Seabiscuit's owner was the West Coast Buick Distributor. ANOTHER interesting thing is that the grand-daughter and her husband moved into this area and came to one of our chapter meetings. Alas, they are more into Mustangs than Buicks.

David did an excellent job with "the numbers" and getting them all coordinated. He carried the spreadsheet in a tube as an architect would carry house plans. A seemingly impossible project that he mastered, answering many curiousities he'd had over the years about Buicks and how they were produced. LOTS of little histories involved in all of that, too!

Take care,

NTX5467