Rolls Royce

Is there a forum for RR, i want to learn more about them.

Scroll down to the British car section of the forum...

http://forums.aaca.org/f168/

Rolls Royce is a fine car, and engineering beyond what one would expect. If an American car used 8 bolts to hold transmission to bell housing, a RR would have 40. They called it "sewing" the metal pieces together. Wonderful cars, everything as complicated as can be....

From a trimmer perspective, the same goes. If there's a 1/4" reed trim piece, covered in leather, it will be sewn in place by hand, with wee little stitches, nothing so crude as just gluing it in place.

The best forum for Rolls Royces is www.rroc.org

They tend emphasize the post war cars, but there is definitely prewar information available as well.

Remember that some Rolls Royces are the Best Built Cars in America!!!

Here's one that's never been on a trailer:

You are certainly correct Trimacar. I did some cosmetic repairs on a 65 Silver Cloud. If two decent sized screws would hold something on, they used 20 jeweler sized screws just to be sure! I've mainly worked on 50's Packards the last few years, and they were quite ahead of the rest, as well.

Those proper motorcars thrived on engineering, fact, mythology, and advertising. Each sale had its own bit of magic attached. In the end the grand targeted market effort was achieved. They sold the whole works to the Germans. Now, there's a real sense of justice in that.

I think the safest models for a new owner would be a postwar Bentley R type or Silver Dawn, although even those are around 60 years old and ready for major overhauls. A mid 1980's Silver Spur, less electronics than the 1990's, might be OK if you stay away from a "bargain price".

Since 1994 I have studied, worked on some, and been tempted by a few. Pragmatism got the best of me. About a year ago the RROC magazine had a black Silver Seraph on the cover. My copy was lying on our coffee table one night and I asked my wife if she knew why I thought that car looked so good. She immediately said "Yes, because it looks like your Chevy Impala." Wow, perceptive! Keep that one under your hat.

Bernie

The best forum for Rolls Royces is www.rroc.org

They tend emphasize the post war cars, but there is definitely prewar information available as well.

Remember that some Rolls Royces are the Best Built Cars in America!!!

Here's one that's never been on a trailer:

"...some Rolls Royces are the Best Built Cars in America!"... These are the Rolls Royce cars built in Springfield, Mass., from 1920 to 1931. Many bodied by Brewster of New York. See "Rolls Royce in America" by John Webb de Campi. My car is a 1930 Springfield built Phantom I Regent with a Convertible Coupe body by Brewster. I am looking for ownership history between 1934 and 1952. I think it's a very pretty car, and it's big: 146 1/2 inch wheelbase, almost 5800 lbs, and almost 8 liters. Here are photos.

Yes, I have been a Springfield Rolls fan for years, and my S274RM is pictured in de Campi's book as well.....

Like I said, it's never been on a trailer......

I agree, not a fan of some Rolls styling, but have seen a Springfield touring that left me weak in the knees...some beautiful car.

Jim, I speak from experience, worked on a late 20's RR that just about drove me crazy, helped with mechanical and did some trim work on it, the British way over-thought it when it came to design....

I've worked on a lot of Ghosts & PIs, mostly American ones, and have never found them to be as excessively "over the top" as suggested here, at least in the mechanical sense. However, they do have more in common with high grade machine tools than with run-of-the-mill automobiles... the 1930s Brown & Sharpe Milling machine I'm currently working on is literally "built like a Rolls-Royce."

I'd vastly prefer to work on them than ANY modern car with its assortment of electronic gizmos. I've only owned one Springfield PI, S193FR, which had serious engine problems when I had it and I'd gladly take it back with the problems. I've also worked on the PII, PIII, 20HP, 20-25, 25-30, Wraith and the post war 6-cylinder cars and my feeling is that I am less comfortable with them the newer they get. I wouldn't touch one of the V8s with a ten foot pole but I still have my big box of special RR tools... as if I'll ever be able to afford one I like!

I'd also go so far as to say that there were American cars contemporary with the Silver Ghost that were every bit as good... Locomobile, Pierce Arrow and the like. And, not being a fan of "flashy" design, I've always favored RRs extreme conservatism. To my eye, no car looks more ludicrous and inappropriate than a RR with a circus wagon paint job.

looking for a late 1970's or 1980's long wheel base model. FIgure I might start by joining the RR club near mechanicburg

Guy, do you know the history of that car? My Dad had one in the early/mid fifties that looked a lot like that. I think he bought it for $200 and sold it a few years later for $400 to the local postman so he could buy his first airplane. The car was kept at my Grandfather's farm near Seneca Lake in upstate New York.

It was in very good, complete, unrestored condition. I was born in '48, so that was my first introduction to the hobby.

S274RM was sold new to an Elizabeth Maltson of NYC. Having done some research at the New York Public Library, she apparently received the car as a gift when she was in her 20s. Interestingly, it is an owner-driver car with no divider and "bucket" style front seats, so she apparently drove this car herself. Based on my research findings, she had some sort of relationship to the Vanderbilt family. The Maltson family kept it into the mid-1950s when it was sold to Albert Fiske of Cincinnati who was part of the Fiske Iron Works family. Fiske was one of the pioneer members of the RROC and the car is pictured in a lot of the early Flying Lady Magazines where it was driven to virtually all of the early national meets and other RROC events. The car was purchased from the Fiske family by a noted collector in Kentucky in the mid-1980s. I purchased it from him around 2003 which mades me the fourth owner. It is one of very few early production SPIs that still retains its original 21" wheels, inverted-style splash aprons, tubular bumpers, drum headlamps, etc. These components were often updated on these early cars to make them look more modern when they returned for servicing. It was repainted by Fiske in the 1960s, but other than that, it is pretty much all original other than a mechanical restoration which I did myself. I have logged about 10,000 miles on the car. Rolls Royce called this body style a Tilbury sedan. All of the other Tilbury sedan bodies I have seen have square cornered rear door windows instead of round and straight-edged tops instead of the rounded edge seen on this car.

S460MR was sold new to John N. Brichetto in 1930, and delivered to him at the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco. He died in 1934 at age 53. No history of this car is next known until it is listed in the Rolls Royce Owner's Club roster as belonging to R.G. Selfridge of China Lake, CA and Ohio.

The dates are 1953-1961. Selfridge was the grandson of the famous Selfridge's in London, England. He sold the car to a good friend, John E. Maxfield, who was a professor in Gainesville, FL. He owned it 1961-1969. Next according to the RROC, Maxfield sold it to Carter Farrar of Lakewood, CO who owned it 1970 until he passed away 1995. His widow sold it in 1996 to Elliot Goldstein in Smithtown, NY who owned it until 2010 when he sold it to Peter Kumar of Gullwing Motor Cars of Astoria, NY. I purchased in from Gullwing in August of 2012 and had it shipped back to California. The odometer shows just over 77,000 miles and it's possible that it is actual as most of its trips across the US were by truck. That is, except one; John E. Maxfield drove it from Barstow, CA to Gainesville, FL in 1961!!!

Very few Springfield Phantom I Regent Convertible Coupes were built by Brewster and few are known today. Noteworthy is that several Regents were re-bodied by Brewster onto formal bodied chassis to make them more saleable. S460MR is one of few known to be an original Regent, not a re-body.

If anyone in AACA, CCCA, or anyone, knows any history of this car. please let me know.

I just opened the door on a 1935 20-25 Rolls Royce with a Mulliner fabric body today. It's been in storage for 20+ years. i really think it has nice lines. Don't know a thing about them value wise, do I need to be the first on my street with a Rolls? Bob

^ If NEED had anything to do with anything........I expect most of us would have nothing.......

Then there was the man who was reading about old cars online. He leaned back in him chair and said aloud "You know, I have half a mind to buy a Rolls-Royce."

Most do it with less.

Bernie

Guy & Peter some very impressive RR - thanks for sharing the pics and the stories.

A while back I suggested a RR/Bentley section in the forum, but the idea failed to proceed...

IMHO the British section is a good venue for some of the really unique cars like a Railton, but the more common MG, TR , etc. are very well served by some other sites already. An RR forum here might draw more discussion etc. on Prewar RR and even the immediate post war models, of interest to me as I have thought about a Bentley R type or Mark more than once.

Anyway, to Packard42s comments I would also search this general discussion area - I recall some conversation on the newer RR like you mentioned. I think the Silver Shadows are attractive, but understand the complex braking is likely the biggest nut with those cars, I would do my research on that front first.

i'm sure you will enjoy learning about R-R as i have. the RROC is a great place to start and belong. i rember guys car from when al fisk owned it and rode in it many times. i believe mary jane ( al's wife ) claimed it though. working on the rolls is like most any other car, just lots more of it.

this is my R-R S279RM.

Stu- Nice to hear from you. I remember when we had both cars at the CCCA Hickory Corners Museum Show. That was especially neat since they are only 5 digits apart in chassis number. Hope you are well.

hi guy..........that was one of the better meets i have attended......which unfortunately has not been very many of late. much cheer to you.

I've owned lots of very interesting cars during the last 60+ years. Lot's of one-offs and limited production cars, but I had never owned a Rolls. I owned an alloy bodied Jaguar XK120 roadster for 44 years and it became so valuable that I decided to let it go, but only if I could find an equally unusual Rolls and only if I could work a trade. The Rolls plus a boat load of cash for my Jag. So now I own this 1930 Springfield Phantom I Brewster bodied Regent Convertible Coupe. It has an aluminum body just like my Jag, but that's where the similarity ends. I love it!

peter

welcome to the springfield P1 contingent. i still have my '54 jag XK-120 that i bought in 1964. my wife says that i will have to be buried in it. i do love the rolls and do plan on keeping it for a few more years. i don't drive it so much, but love admiring it and keeping it maintained.

Stu,

Thanks for your message. The Springfield Phantom I people in the RROC have been great. It's interesting that you have an XK120 too. I guess our love of cars crosses all kinds of lines. I bought my 1949 alloy XK120 in August of 1968 and my Phantom I in August of 2012. Both beautiful, both very different. The Jag is a fast and modern car compared to the Rolls. Here are photos of my Jag.

Peter

peter

wow, your jag looks great. i also own a 1930 model A ford sport coupe and a 1911 ford T. love every one with a passion.

Is there a forum for RR, i want to learn more about them.

No discussion of Rolls Royce cars would be complete without mention of the Phantom 1V. There is so much history connected with this model I suggest you go to:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Phantom_IV

At the other end of the scale, for anyone wishing to own a 'classic' Rolls Royce there has probably never been a better time. The Silver Shadow offers a lot of car for a modest initial outlay but beware! These are not cheap cars to run and the (Citroen designed) combined hydraulic self levelling suspension and braking circuits are notoriously complicated.

I personally would steer clear of these cars and probably also the later versions of the beautifully built Silver Cloud; the 11 & 111 (BentleyS2 & S3) also have the same V8 engine as the Shadow.

The Silver Cloud 1 (Bentley S1) has a traditional straight 6.

Without doubt the older cars are a pleasure to work on with one exception; the Phantom 111 really has to be the joker in the pack. The only pre war Rolls to have a V12 engine, these cars are frankly a nightmare. Not only are the cars over complicated and poorly designed for maintenance but the engine is horrendously expensive to rebuild - even by RR standards!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Phantom_III

Ray.

Nightmare? One of these bristly devils?

Pics like that come from secret places behind locked doors. What do you mean, fitted cylinder head studs,

Bernie

PS, An S1 Bentley really is a nice choice as is the Cloud I. I have a very nice S1 grille assembly listed on Ebay for anyone following this topic.

Sooner you than me Bernie, sooner you than me!

For those who don't know, some studs are more brittle than others and prone to snap off - and that's just for starters! The whole car is a magnificent white elephant and designed by someone with a grudge against mechanics!

Any other proper Rolls but please not a P111. I know they glide along in silent majesty but for me a nice S1 Bentley is a car I could live with.

No more nightmare pictures please!

Ray.

I still have a 1930 RR 20-25 in my barn. Tied up in an estate. Been almost a year without hearing anything from the estate??? I guess they are not in a hurry to settle. Ahh yes. I have worked on an XK120 Jag. Lots of motor under that hood. Dandy Dave!